I vote for steamrolling the conservatives. Then run primary challengers against them.

The mess that Cailfornia is in is precisely because a minority of conservatives have been given a way to lock up the process unless they get their way. Want to bankrupt the country? Allow this to happen in Congress.

"If liberals say it's a bridge too far, conservatives will say, 'We had a bipartisan bill ready to go, but the left killed health care.'"

The issue isn't whether liberals kill health care reform. Something will definitely get passed. The issue will be whether conservatives (including conserva-Dems) kill a strong public plan.

We're doing the right thing by focusing on a strong public plan that's paid for via cost savings, taxes on the wealthy,... The pressure is on to pass such a public plan, and if we don't, then conserva-Dems will live to regret it--and that's a fact.

Two words: Farm Subsidies. If these bastards dont pass Health Care Reform, perhaps we can pass Agriculture Reform.

I blame all this on Al Franken.

Before he became #60, the power lay with Olympia Snowe and the other less-conservative members of the GOP. They were, to some extent, willing to negotiate.

Once he became #60, the power center shifted to the Left - to the Blue Dog Dems - right when health care was coming through. The Blue Dogs now have every intention of wielding and exercising this new-found power that they have. They are not going to go quietly into the night.

Homer

Where should we send money to most harm the Blue Dogs in their next election? Or can we sway the Maine senators?

Bull. If 5-6 Dem senators said they vote no on any plan without a public option, then there will be one, because the only thing Obama wants less than the bill to fail is to fail because of a "bipartisan opposition" to it.

If liberal Dems- mind you, most of whom have little to no threats to reelection in their states- had the guts to do it, the real offer they have to give to Obama is this: he can either risk losing because of a lack of conservative support or guarantee losing because of a lack of liberal support.

There is another option which few liberals and progressives are talking about in the blogosphere which to me should be a no brainer.

Put a progressive bill up for a vote.

Game Set Match. The Blue Dogs will never be able to keep their coalition together enough to vote down Health Care reform.

Lets be real about some things here. Blue Dogs normally come from red or purple districts. But they STILL get voted in primarily by Democrats. If they vote against health care reform they can kiss their political careers good bye.

Now a few of them may not care because they will have lucrative jobs lined up with health insurance companies much like Tauzin. However most of them will want to keep their job in the House and will break away and vote yea.

Why Pelosi and Waxman can't see this I simply don't know. Put THEM on the spot. Bring the bill to the floor and have them actually put their name behind a no vote.

Their coalition has already splintered over a public option. The upside is if they bring a progressive bill to the floor and put them on the spot, not only will the bill pass, its also likely to shatter the Blue Dog coalition forever.

Democrats on the right are skeptical of the approach

You mean ELECTED Democrats on the right. Democratic voters on the right support what's in the House bill. So do Republican voters. It's only politicians who fund their campaigns with PAC contributions who care nothing about governing and everything about reelection who oppose doing what is popular, moral, and obvious - fixing our uniquely expensive and inadequate health care system.

Perhaps the discussion should shift to the process of retribution. The insurance companies, big pharma, and their right-wing enablers and cronies may succeed in destroying health care reform. Events are not encouraging. Before the country sinks into another economic crisis because of these twerps, it should NOW be made clear how our dear politicians will held accountable for their avarice. Scare the crap out of 'em.

It's worthwhile to remember that the 1964 Civil Rights Act wouldn't have passed if not for the largely symbolic 1957 Civil Rights Act. This might just be the legislation that clears the way for more significant legislation down the road. One of the things I like about this town is that most people aren't even patient enough to sit still on a Metro escalator, but we might need to wait another election cycle or two for the real thing. Obama's calm, collected stance throughout this thing is what is keeping it moving, so if the liberal dems and their real constituency follow his example, single payer will be closer to coming to fruition, not further.

I agree with sgwhiteinfla.

Make them vote on it. If it fails, who cares? Progressives then say they tried and that the minority killed the bill and we should try again in the next presidential election. Let's move on to education.

When they come slinking back to ask for reform. We point out how they obstructed reform and don't give it to them. Or we hold out to get what we want.

Make them vote on it.

The ability to cause a politician to lose office is the only thing they respect. If the liberals in Congress don't have the guts to make Obama fear them by blowing up an inadequate health care bill, why should he do what they want.
Why should I vote for legislators who are self-confessed political eunuchs?

The basic problem is that Republicans, and now the Blue Dogs, are much better than liberals in throwing tantrums. They kick, and scream, and make stuff up. The Democrats are spineless in the face of even modest confrontation. Heaven help us if Democrats back down on this issue.

Democrats have no balls. They have cowerd under the repugs for so long they know no other way. If Obama does not veto any bill that does not represent real change then he has no balls either and deserves what happens. So far I have been totally unimpressed with his presidency. People kept telling me he was the same as all politicians. I don't want to believe that but its looking like its true. At least the repugs believe in what they preach and stick together even as truly destructive their policies have been.

Democrats should start to worry about keeping their base happy, just as Republicans do.

I'm a life long Democrat who is getting increasingly pissed off at the party.

"Bull. If 5-6 Dem senators said they vote no on any plan without a public option, then there will be one, because the only thing Obama wants less than the bill to fail is to fail because of a "bipartisan opposition" to it."
Posted by: August J. Pollak on July 28, 2009 at 4:00 PM

These senators have pledged to vote no if there's no public option:
1. Emanuel Cleaver II
2. Lloyd Doggett
3. Donna Edwards
4. Keith Ellison
5. Raul Grijalva
6. Phil Hare
7. Rush Holt
8. Carolyn Maloney
9. Jerrold Nadler
10. Chelle Pingree
11. Lynn Woolsey
12. Robert Wexler
13. Maxine Waters
14. Barney Frank

Sorry, typing too fast. These REPRESENTATIVES have pledged to vote NO.

Our calls and letters won't make enough difference unless there's money attached to each one. But we do have an economic lever: Go on strike for health care. Nationwide General Strike for a Real Public Option, Sept. 8-9. If this catches on and builds into a national movement, it will make the difference.

It's time for progressive Democrats and activists to hit the Republicans HARD. They should make the kind of speeches and run the kinds of commercials that are so over-the-top that the corporate-controlled media has to repeat them.

Call the Republicans 'Liars' and run clips of them lying. Say out loud that the Republicans have no intention of allowing real reform to pass and run the clips and the quotes that prove it. Declare that the Republicans are bowing to the wackiest of the far-right fringe and run clips and quotes of them repeating the "Birther's" insane conspiracy theories.

And then jump on the asses of the Blue dogs for being so naive that they think they can find common ground with these nutjobs. Say out loud that you can't find common ground with someone who still thinks the Earth is flat.

F*ck 'em. It's time for the Democratic leadership, including Obama, to become more afraid of their party's liberal base than they are of right-wing talking points.

It's time for progressive Democrats and activists to hit the Republicans HARD. They should make the kind of speeches and run the kinds of commercials that are so over-the-top that the corporate-controlled media has to repeat them.

Call the Republicans 'Liars' and run clips of them lying. Say out loud that the Republicans have no intention of allowing real reform to pass and run the clips and the quotes that prove it. Declare that the Republicans are bowing to the wackiest of the far-right fringe and run clips and quotes of them repeating the "Birther's" insane conspiracy theories.

And then jump on the asses of the Blue dogs for being so naive that they think they can find common ground with these nutjobs. Say out loud that you can't find common ground with someone who still thinks the Earth is flat.

F*ck 'em. It's time for the Democratic leadership, including Obama, to become more afraid of their party's liberal base than they are of right-wing talking points.

Bring a progressive bill out of the conference committee and don't let them filibuster.

And the libs will go on TV and say that it wasn't health reform and that the bought and paid for members of Congress should be primaried out of the party. Change is slow but it can be accomplished. It's only a once-in-a-generation chance if you believe that the GOP and centrist dems will always be this powerful. More & better Dems should always be the goal.

"We had a bipartisan bill ready to go, but the left killed health care."

This is the problem that liberals can not seem to grasp, who cares, voters won't remember, only the policy wonks will and they are usually on our side.

Republicans get this, they know at election time this non-sense is long forgotten. What will not be forgotten is a weak bill, it will be around to remind voters how gutless the people we voted for truly are. For christ sake, we have super majority and we are still bending to the super minority. It's straight out of the Onion and we keep blaming republicans, it's not their fault, they are the minority.

And what is this business about the blue dogs in the House, we don't need them, we need them in the Senate so the House has to overstep, push hard and make the 'compromise' what we wanted to begin with.

If you want $10k for a car you don't start negotiating at $10k, you start at $11k and work it until you get what you want. It's negotiating 101 and it's time someone grew a pair, cough, cough, Harry Reid.

Seriously, strip these idiots of some of their posts if they aren't going to vote for the center piece of the last election. Reid is going to let them water down this legislation and call it a day, he has leverage and it's time he used it.

The truly disgusting fact is they don't even have to vote for it, just cloture. If they can not do that, which is essentially blocking their own party, strip them of their committee positions. They don't deserve them.

"We had a bipartisan bill ready to go,"

How likely is that?

SteveT, You're On to Something.....

The truly disgusting fact is they don't even have to vote for it, just cloture. If they can not do that, which is essentially blocking their own party, strip them of their committee positions. They don't deserve them.

You got that right, Scott. If Republicans were trying to do something with a 60-member caucus, they wouldn't even be talking to Democrats. They would be dictating terms of surrender.

the Democratic Party: Useless.

I'm voting against them every chance I get for the rest of my life because of what a joke Obama has become. Don't think I'll fall for that 'Hope' BS the next time a Democrat thinks he can pull the wool over my eyes.

No EFCA. No Health reform. No gay rights. No congressional oversight. No transparency.

We got a shitload of money going to rich people! So... Why should I bother not voting for Republicans again?

If the Blue Dogs kill the whole effort, they will deny to the private insurers tens of millions of subsidized new customers. So they are not even being true to the corporate paymasters. They are totally confused.

F*ck 'em. It's time for the Democratic leadership, including Obama, to become more afraid of their party's liberal base than they are of right-wing talking points.

Posted by: SteveT

Sweet lord ... I've wished for that to very thing to happen before Obama became President. (Knowing he was a centrist, however, I knew it wouldn't happen on his watch unless something happened; that something hasn't happened yet).

What I want to know is: Why the hell aren't more progressive Dems ever invited on the teevee to talk about their desires for health care reform?

I realize they'll probably never be on the Sunday bobble-head shows like "Weak, the Press" or "This Week in Stupid," but why doesn't Maddow have on Feingold? Where are the progressive Reps. on Olbermann?

Basically, why in the holy hell do we always see some rightwing radical (who, 99.99% of the time is lying his/her ass off), but never a true progressive (who, in all liklihood, would bring a bevy of facts and stats with him/her)?

It really is maddening that an entire chunk of our politics is ignored ...

Tobias, you people always say later/ We';ll get job training later. We'll get worker protections later. We'll put in environmental standards later. for 25 years, every time we on the left wanted something in exchange for our votes, people like you have told us 'later'.

Well, later never comes. go fuck yourself.

Bloglogger I love your idea, but the information has to somehow get out to the country - any ideas?

Put a progressive bill up for a vote.

That would make the most sense, but the Democrats and Democratic leadership are polluted enough by special interest money, that they won't do it. There is always the risk it might actually work.

"The left is told, 'Take it or leave it.' If liberals say it's a bridge too far, conservatives will say, 'We had a bipartisan bill ready to go, but the left killed health care'."

But the American people, by very wide margins in the polls, trust the Democratic Party with healthcare reform over the Republican Party. So, if the Democrats have to vote against a bad bill and it dies, the vast majority of the American people will think it must have been a bad bill.

No, don't worry. This isn't once-in-a-lifetime. This is just the beginning of a time period in which the social safety net will increase significantly. I've almost finished the rewrite of my book on this. PredictingHistory.com has a taste, though the page is a bit rough right now.

Why not put both the public option AND co-ops in the bill as a compromise? That way we the people have even more choices.

Very disappointed in Obama. He managed to shovel hundreds of billions of dollars to banks despite opposition from Republicans and from the public. The public is with him on health care reform, but he is not doing what it takes to push that reform through. He is the President, right? If he could shovel so much money, without any transparency and accountability, to banks, why can't he do the same for something more fundamental - health of the people?

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