[...] if the discussion shifts to how best to craft a functional co-op system, it's almost certainly shifting away from how to implement a public plan. -- Steve Benen

Which would be compromise step #2, if you assume that the optimum is a single payer and that the public option is a step down from that. Had we started with the single payer as our position, we could have bargained it down to public option; as things are, we've given away the store before we were asked to, and have no chips left to bargain with...

avoiding being targeted could be a disastrous way of getting a good health care reform plan.

try this:

1 - gun point (NRA, yeah! for once...)
2 -- submit single-payer legislation
3 -- sign bill --victory

Obama has to STOP tiptoeing around this and show a little leadership here (it is, after all, what all you voted for him to provide and what I raised $350K for him to run on for) and say clearly that any bill from Congress that does not include a clearly-defined "public option" will be vetoed. Once the spineless scum in the Senate (Baucus and Bayh, I'm looking at you) get the definitive word, they'll change their tune.

Does Obama have a choice at this point? It's pretty clear things haven't gone as he'd hoped so far. I think it's easy to overlook how insanely difficult it is to get real change through Congress. There are so many interests competing against reform, be they health insurance companies or just a fear of not being reelected, that I can see no reform being a greater likelihood than a watered-down bill. This is a tough moment for Obama. The economy has pulled-down his approval numbers, emboldening his enemies. Ultimately I think we'll get something, and it will be inadequate, but it will better than nothing. The only chance for a public option as I see it would be if Obama suddenly found his voice on the issue and absolutely owned August. I won't count him out, but I am preparing myself for disappointment.

what I raised $350K for him to run on for

you raised that despite 4 prepositions within 10 words?
could i have a loan?

The purpose of the public option is to force health insurance to become serious about cost containment. The problem with the current health insurance model is there is no incentive for insurance companies to demand providers take steps to provide efficient health care. In fact the current model encourages waste and inefficiency. As a result American health care costs twice as much per person as other industrial nation.

The reason the VA and the DOD can deliver quality care at lower prices is the government has two competing incentives--provide high quality care at the lowest price. If the government doesn't do both the bureaucrats have hell to pay with the politicians, who want more than anything else to avoid the wrath of outraged voters.

I don't see how the co-ops would have incentives sufficiently different than current insurance company plans to really change the playing field. It is the presence of ultimate accountability to voters that is the difference between private insurance and public plans. That accountability makes all the difference.

...you raised that despite 4 prepositions within 10 words?

It's not that bad:

...what I raised $350K [for him] [to run on] [for].

Each preposition is legit, and necessary. 'To run is an infinitive -- the 'to' is integral. And 'run on' is a phrasal verb, the 'on' is integral ('run on' ≠ 'run').

If you want an expression of advantage ('for him') you don't have lots of good alternative constructions.

And the final 'for' is a bog-standard English expression of purpose.

It falls funny on the ear, but the alternatives are all stilted, or worse.

Of course, in a proper language, you'd have lots of nifty case endings, and other inflections, to do the heavy lifting, instead of shoals of micro-words....

What the American people want and need is a universal, nonprofit, single-payer medical insurance system under open, accountable, efficient public administration -- which is what every other industrialized democracy in the world has, in some form, and which in every case delivers better health care at lower cost to more people than the for-profit US system. As do the government-run Medicare and VA health care systems in the USA.

The notion of a "public plan" to "compete" with the for-profit insurance corporations is already a compromise to protect the profits of the insurance corporations.

The notion of a "co-op plan" is an even further compromise designed to protect the profits of the insurance corporations at the expense of the American people, while providing a pretense of "moving in the direction" of a system like other developed countries have -- a single-payer nonprofit system which is actually intended to deliver health care to human beings rather than delivering profits to corporations.

Congress is therefore well on its way to achieving its real objective, which is to ensure that the USA continues to have the most profitable health care system in the world, and that the insurance corporations continue to rake in the big bucks that they need to bribe members of Congress.

"In any compromise between food and poison, poison wins."
-- Ayn Rand

Obama has to STOP tiptoeing around this and show a little leadership here

We shouldn't have to be constantly deciphering Obama's code words to figure out where he stands. This shouldn't be so hard, and SA outlines the basic issues correctly.

Let me try and avoid a firestorm by stating up front that I am not in favor of compromising away a public option.

Given, however, the Dems generally spinelessness and willingness to compromise, they need to insist on both a co-op plan and a public option with delayed triggers.

This has two benefits. First, since it appears everyone right of center-left is scared to death of public option (so it must be the best answer!) - which means the incentive value of avoiding the triggers is pretty high. Second, if we cant get the actual public option up and running in this round of reform, we should at least get the camel's nose into the tent. Once the general concept and structure are on the books, we can start banking political capital for step 2, where we implement it.

If there is any compromise away from a full, immediate public option, they need to at least get the compromise right.

Americans, totally and completely in the hands of big business interests, from birth to graveyard.
Wonder when you'll liberate yourselves from the absolute disenfranchisement from "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" that big business is imposing upon the American lifestyle?

It's incredible to behold.

I will continue to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Sounds to me like Obama is saying a co-op will be fine if it acts exactly like a public option, which it most likely can not and will not. Sorta like saying "Red would be my favorite color if it were blue but since red isn't blue, blue is my favorite color."

Personally, I think caving on this issue will not only affect a lot of Dems' chances in 2010, it's going to seriously jeopardize Obama's chances in 2012 if an even halfway-respectable candidate comes out of the current morass that is the GOP field. The same Republicans and lickspittles in the media who are hoping Obama will fail, working to MAKE him fail, will use that failure as a signature attack point: He promised us healthcare, and he didn't deliver, never mind that we're the ones that made him fail, he still failed. And to a degree, that line of attack will have resonance. Lest anyone need to be reminded, we're talking about an issue where a vast majority of Americans agree with Obama. Not only do millions of Americans have first or secondhand horror stories about dealing with insurance companies, Obama's mother's story is one of them. He's got a horse in this race, and while Obama's let me down more than once so far, I suspect, when it comes to this issue, there will eventually be a line drawn in the sand. That he'd be willing to veto reform, no how matter how sweeping it is, if it's not sweeping enough if it doesn't actually help anyone but the insurance companies. Fingers crossed, but not while driving, because if I get in an accident because of crossed fingers, I don't think I'm covered.

Budget Reconciliation is still a viable option. It can not be filibustered and only needs a tie vote with Biden presiding.

We need a public plan for effective reform of the health care system. So President Obama must bring the recalcitrant Democrats into line.

If the threat to run a primary challenge against them doesn't work, lock each one in a room where Rahm Emanuel can speak to them while Reggie Love hovers.

homer www.altara.blogspot.com

It's time we begin to accept that we've elected a "settler".

This President will settle for a too small stimulus (and still get no GOP votes), he'll settle for a too moderate Supreme Court nominee (and get one GOP vote in committee), he'll settle for health care reform which doesn't reform anything (and probably get no GOP votes once again).

The GOP and Blue Dogs drive this bus, or at least their corporate masters do, and the rest of us have nothing to say about it.

If this is the majority, you can have it.

Less nuance, more foot down. Draw the veto line, Mr. President. No public option, no signature.

Obama qualifications to reform health care:

No birth certificate

Cannot stop smoking

Difficulty telling the truth.

Therefore, I Igor produce Obama Birth Certificate at www.igormarxo.org

Compare Obama Care vs Igor Care at Obama vs Igor Care

Maybe we can consider the US one giant co-op. Anyway, hopefully the CBO scoring will show the co-op plan and the finance committee plan and the Waxman/Blue Dog plan are much weaker than the original house plan leaving Conrad/Ross et al to argue how half a loaf feeds more people.

Pick your fights...where and when. It's cover because nothing can be done until a bill...any bill...gets out of committee. Baucus and Conrad both have done everything within their power to find a way around a public option and still have the nerve to call it reform. The long time spent "in committee mtgs" has been spent trying to find a way to keep the HC ins profiteers profiteering...and still call it "reform". A next to impossible effort...and look at the results of their efforts...then saying it's necessary because it must be "bipartisan".

Obama knows you can't deal with them at the committee level...that's where they control the ball. The more exposure the results of their committee mtgs get the more it will work to Obama's favor. These senators are not that bright no matter how shiny they buff that turd it will still stink to high heaven.