I saw a report by the Associated Press on these Town Halls, mentioning the protest without any mention of there corporate origin. To the AP it really is a grassroots groundswell of opposition.

I've lost all hope. These tactics worked in Florida and they'll work now. When one side plays by the rules and the other continues to break the rules without penalty, the result is usually bad.

I've heard suggestions that the "astroturf" groups are busing protesters in from outside the district. Can someone get video of the buses unloading or loading and trace it back to where it came from?

It would be nice if a "journalist" from the mainstream media would do this, but these days "mainstream media journalist" is an oxymoron.

So what are those of us in favor of reform doing? I live in DC so I can't exactly write or call anyone, but I'm willing to attend town halls in VA or MD if necessary.

TPM asked what the blue team is doing - good question. I've seen nothing and I'm feeling like just giving money isn't enough here. Who's organizing? Where can I go?

I give up. I can't even turn on the TEE VEE anymore. I am baffled at what motivates these "protesters".I find it unfathomable that they have not experienced or had a person close to them suffer at the hands of an insurance company or are they immune to the fear that if they lose their jobs they lose their insurance. I guess they are OK with going to emergency rooms for their "free " care. Let me know how that works out when you get a ctastrophic ilness.

What amazes and frightens me is that, despite the desperate need for healthcare reform, the healthcare industry has tricked a large number of individuals to work as their front line foot soldiers. The chain of command is: Industry - lobbyists - politicians - media personalities - listener/"activists." What's truly stupendous is that the listener/activist gets absolutely nothing from defeating healthcare reform. Everyone else in the chain gets money. Lots and lots of money.

Amazing and frightening.

Steve is obviously mistaken!

Lou Dobbs assured me last night that these are legitimate protests against ObamaCare.

Plus there is a real educated vs. uneducated conflict here, too. I mean, each side is preaching to its own choir only.

... unhinged activists have very little to lose ...

Wrong. Check out MyLeftNutmeg.com (I'd give you the link but it would put this comment in moderation):

Following the event [Sen. Chris] Dodd conducted an interview outside the warehouse and at its conclusion he spotted the handful of protesters across the street and turned to his staff to ask who they were. As he pulled out of the parking lot Dodd pulled up to the protesters and asked if they wanted to discuss the issue with him.

Jim Bancroft, one of the protesters who is part of the Dump Dodd and Tea Party movements, said Dodd asked if he wanted to talk to him and [Bancroft] declined.

Bancroft, who is currently uninsured and on disability for a back injury, said if he needs medical attention he will pay for it himself. Estelle Stevenson, another protester who was standing next to Bancroft, said she has health insurance with a $5,000 deductible and had to refinance her mortgage in order to pay her insurance bills.

Dick Armey relies on the fact that obliviousness like that comes cheap.

Why can't these "protesters" be escorted out of the meetings after, say, 3 or 4 requests to stop disrupting the proceedings? When did the right of free speech include the right to drown out the free speech of others and intimidate them in the process. For heaven sakes, noisy protesters are routinely ejected from Congressional hearings. Why not these hall meetings?

It's pretty simple to stop this crap. Simply have police/security "escorts" on hand and a big sign at the entrance to the venue informing participants that questions are welcome when you have the floor, that the purpose of the meeting is open dialogue, and that those who attempt to shut down open dialogue through shouting others down will be removed. And then, haul out anyone who refuses to abide by the rules of civil discourse. This gives them a choice - their voice can be heard - but only if they extend the courtesy to others. If they aren't capable of doing that, they won't be part of the discussion.

There's nothing wrong with imposing some rules of decorum...it's nothing like the Bush "town halls" which were totally scripted events with pre-screened participants. Just put people on notice that attempts to shut down dialogue won't be tolerated and those who engage in such attempts will be forced to leave, but they are welcome to voice their concerns if they are able to demonstrate the most basic manners. If they can't do that, they aren't there for any reason other than to prevent others from being heard and they need to be removed from the venue.

Again, what is the best strategy to deal with this?

Yesterday I suggested that the speaker invite someone up to discuss the issue. Perhaps she or he could ask the group of chanters to select a spokesperson. If they decline, ask the rest of the group to say "yes" if they want the town hall to involve discussion rather than shouting. Recruit the other people at the event to move toward civility.

I'm surprised no one is using the term Brown Shirts.

The facile semantics of the right are so frightening that I prefer being shouted down and bullied , to any practical exercise of common sense . Frightening is bad enough , worse then is that they tend to be so absurd that it severe a test of character to reply with a straight face .

If I were a congressperson, I would start the meeting by reading the memo aloud. Tell the crowd "there's a minority in this hall who don't have any interest in learning about or debating the issue. Their only goal is to disrupt the meeting so that the rest of you aren't able to learn more about it. Here is their playbook, developed by corporate healthcare interests and ideological extremists with a vested interest in the status quo". Then you take a minute to read the memo, maybe project it on a screen, and right there, everyone who tries to "rattle" the speaker is branded an extremist. Say that you're willing to debate the subject legitimately, but anyone who disrupts the proceeding will be removed.

You can't just start removing people left and right, but if you let everyone know beforehand that people are being removed for a specific reason, you keep the rest of the crowd, who are interested in legitimate discussion, on your side.

Simply have police/security "escorts" on hand and a big sign at the entrance to the venue informing participants that questions are welcome when you have the floor, that the purpose of the meeting is open dialogue, and that those who attempt to shut down open dialogue through shouting others down will be removed.

I think this is on the right track, but I also think it makes sense to educate the people to the fact that the people you are removing haven't simply lost control, but that they showed up with the specific intent to lose control. Make the people aware that you aren't removing other interested parties who are just very emotional. You are removing people who showed up with the intent to shut things down.

It's all fair & good to complain about the disruptors, but IMHO, the politicians who are conducting these town hall meetings have a responsibility to handle town hall meetings as well as handling closed door meetings with lobbyists. As others have said, rules of decorum could and should be announced in advance. Those who drown out others should be escorted - hell, I'd even settle for "should be escorted to a 'waiting area' where they'll be given the option of leaving OR waiting until civilized grownups have all asked their questions, and then they can return (by which time many people will have gotten what they want out of the town hall and left)."

Hell, were I running a town hall meeting, I'd set up a giant banner welcoming into my district "lobbyist plants & visiting seat fillers" and start the meeting by explaining what will possibly haapen, apologize to my constituents in advance that "some out of district corporate lobbyists want to deny you YOUR freedoms of speech & assembly to protect their comfy living, and nominally paying (if that) people who aren't fully educated on the facts to shout over me, shout over you & create the false impression that all of you are part of a flash mob." Then (after I explain to the old folks what a flash mob is) I'd ask "how sad is that? How UNAMERICAN is that? Some of you will even have genuine concerns, your own passion projects, and it might not get heard because of the plants from the insurance industry." By the time I finished my introductory remarks, painting my "there are fascist stooges amongst you" shpiel, there won't be a plant with the balls to say boo - the bona fide voters, the security, the press, everyone will know to lookout for people pretending to be impassioned dissenters, and be ready to hate them for ruining their town hall meeting.

This tactic only works if the Main Stream Media pretends these clowns are genuine. I am looking at you AP. Maybe if the AP reporters got off their fat asses and investigated a little or maybe if their in the tank editors remembered that journalism is all about finding the truth and exposing the fake, then maybe the protests would backfire, but as it is now, the media are reporting these protests as genuine instead of astroturf and a lot of Americans are left scratching their heads.

I fear for our country.

In the 1930's Hitler had the 'brown shirts' to disrupt any activities not sanctioned by the Nazi Party. They were recruited to be thugs and thugs they were. In the end, they became unmanageable and the Nazis had to have the SS kill them off.

Our republican brown shirts are under the loose control of corporate front groups. Over time, these modern day brown shirts will be found to be as uncontrollable as those of the 1930s.

The real question is not whether they will engage in further violence, but rather what level that violence will reach. At what point will the sheeple of our country become convinced that the authoritarianism of our republican party is needed to restore order in our society. Do not count out this path to permanent republican control of our country.

As always, when the next level of violence is achieved, Rush & Lou & Bill & my other fellow real Americans will disclaim any responsibility. It will be the fault of the liberals for sowing such disorder.

The mainstream media, for example the so-called journalist Katie Couric, are completely missing this story, reporting "anger" about health care reform instead of paying actual attention and realizing these disruptions are all organized astro-turf actions to shut down debate. Pathetic and frightening.

Again, what is the best strategy to deal with this?

Tasers, mace, and uncharged detention in inadequate facilities were considered appropriate under the previous administration. If it's an organized group, "disturbing the peace" and/or conspiracy to riot.

One way to get appropriate standards for tolerating free speech, is to be sure that they are in fact "standards" (applied equally to all). There's more elections coming up, it might be nice to make it clear that truly disruptive behavior, as opposed to mere political speech, has consequences.

This is how a town hall meeting should run

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/4/761608/-Tea-Baggers-FAIL-to-disrupt-Health-Care-meeting,-lessons-shared.

I seem to recall a Republican convention in New York City a few years back.

I also recall demonstrators being clubbed, maced, then bussed to 'holding areas', before appearing in front of a magistrate.

The only outcry was from the 'Left'.

Maybe today's Left needs to be proactive; come to the meeting with rubber truncheons, plastic handcuffs, and pepper spray- all of which easily pass through metal detectors. . .

Ironic that many of these were the same types who sat quietly in hand picked Shrub town hall meetings and cheered on cue for Shrub. Three school teachers in Oregon, bought tickets for a town hall affair in Jackson with Shrub. However, they never entered the building, as Shrub's goons turned them away for wearing messaged T-shirts about stopping the war.

However, if these Ernst Roehm clones were arrested, they would be screaming about living in an Obama Police State. Yes, they are the new SA of the RepuGs. Stupid Assholes is weak, but, the SA was the Brownshirt element recruited to be used as bully boys in disrupting anyone who disagreed with the Nazis, whether they were Socialists, Communists or defenders of the Weimar Republic. All opposers were considered to be the Scientology version of "Fair Game".

What's truly stupendous is that the listener/activist gets absolutely nothing from defeating healthcare reform.

Nothing except royally screwed by the people they're handmaidens to. Witness lotus's examples above. One could be excused for feeling churlish enough to hope that those people are faced with staggering medical bills they have no hope of paying -- but then they'd just find a way to blame Obama and the libs for the ensuing bankruptcy, loss of their homes, etc.

It's always a bad idea to underestimate the power of angry ignorance, especially when it's mixed with healthy doses of racism, a 1950s world view, deep fear of change, a driving need to marginalize and blame others, and a total lack of problem-solving skills. We will never get through to these people; they're just too reptilian. But we have to do a far better job of understanding what they're going to do next and getting ready for it.

How many congresscritters are naive enough not to recognize this stuff for what it is? If they're "influenced" by it that will only be because it's a handy excuse for what they wanted to do anyway (i.e. fellating their corporate johns).

Here's another reason for Bishop to fear his constituents. http://shouldirun.com/recoverydotgov.html displays screenshots of "stimulus" projects in New York's 1st Congressional District that were supposed to create jobs, but the monetary awards are to out of district companies!

"Why can't these "protesters" be escorted out of the meetings after, say, 3 or 4 requests to stop disrupting the proceedings?"

And these are exactly the same assholes who attended Bush rallies, and at the first sign of a negative comment from a non-Bush supporter, instantly had them "escorted" from the hall, all the while the "freedom-loving patriots" mindlessly chanted USA!, USA!....

These are mindless, un-American thugs...nothing more...too f'ing stupid to realize they're being used by the corporations that have been screwing them for years...

I wonder about the legality of a group like FreedomWorks organizing people to commit crimes of disorderly conduct.

Am I the only person who thinks this is an extremely risky strategy from the right? People are already onto it, with the leaked memos. Does the right wing want to look even more extreme with the birther nonsense and now harrassing Congresspeople?

I'm with other posters - why aren't the Congressional reps more prepared? Didn't they watch the video of Mike Castle and Crazy Eileen? Did they think this was a one-time thing?

why aren't the Congressional reps more prepared? Didn't they watch the video of Mike Castle and Crazy Eileen? Did they think this was a one-time thing?

And even before Crazy Eileen, did they not realize that, lame as this proposed legislation is, even the hint of healthcare reform would spark the biggest domestic policy struggle in memory?

We knew these guys would fight as dirty as they needed to to protect the drunken orgy of profits they've been having at the public's expense. Why didn't the Dem caucus?

I am baffled at what motivates these "protesters"

Dude, have you seen the president?

It's that simple, it really is.

The comments are dancing around a key point. The Republican Party is too weak to organize such protests at this time. These protests are almost 100% media-driven.

Those hecklers are PAID to distrupt freedom of speech with MY insurance premium dollars and expensive medication dollars. They are not volunteers.

the good news is that the right wing nihilists haven't found a messiah. and maybe a messiah wont work in this country, or at this moment in this country.

i, for one, think we are approaching the most dangerous moment in the history of this wild, crazy, wonderful country.

The comments are dancing around a key point. The Republican Party is too weak to organize such protests at this time. These protests are almost 100% media-driven.

Good point. At this stage, the media, not the official party hierarchy, is the power in the GOP.

Those hecklers are PAID to distrupt freedom of speech with MY insurance premium dollars and expensive medication dollars. They are not volunteers.

No, I really doubt they're paid at the lowest levels (the organizers are, of course); it would be too easy for that info to get out and that really wouldn't go down well with normal Americans. The foot soldiers here are double-plus unsmart people who can be easily led by hate-focused media personalities and groups. The Doggett protest, for example, probably had a lot of employees from Austin-area insurance companies -- of which there are many -- at it. A number of other protesters are just old, angry, clueless Medicare recipients who have plenty of time in their schedules to be publicly angry about the president being black.

Of course they love this strategy. It got them the presidency, right?

For such a savvy political animal like Obama to permit Congress to recess before a final vote was a huge mistake. Why he went along with that isn't clear, but he may rue the day. If these disruptions continue a media circus in a traditionally slow news month will ensue, and spineless legislators will wet their pants.

It is entirely possible that the right-wing gullible will go off the rails and so far into the weeds that they shoot themselves in the foot. Much to be hoped for, but if the Obama forces are going to retain any advantage they had better have more of a strategy than that.

According to TPM, MacGuffie doesn't say he didn't write the memo, he just says he didn't write it for FreedomWorks:

MacGuffie is a volunteer for FreedomWorks, the industry funded group that helps organize and support the tea party protests. But he denies that his small group has any direct affiliation with FreedomWorks. "We are recommending with that memo that other grassroots groups that share our view should go to the townhalls of their members and use the strategy that we did," MacGuffie told me, confirming the memo's authenticity. "We are trying to get into that town halls to make them understand that they do not have the unanimous support from people in their communities."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/tea-party-town-hall-strategy-rattle-them-stand-up-and-shout.php?ref=fpa

For such a savvy political animal like Obama to permit Congress to recess...

Kings can call and prorogue and dissolve Parliaments. Presidents, except under very narrow circumstances, cannot.

He may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper.

Since Congress, having convened in January, was already in session, and in August only intended to recess, neither adjourning either to a date certain or sine die, and there being no disagreement between the Houses over the date of adjournment, since the Houses aren't adjourning, I don't see what option he had... except throwing a hissy-fit.

For such a savvy political animal like Obama to permit Congress to recess before a final vote was a huge mistake. Why he went along with that isn't clear, but he may rue the day. If these disruptions continue a media circus in a traditionally slow news month will ensue, and spineless legislators will wet their pants.

I'm not so sure about that. I'm not going to claim some kind of grand plan on the part of the administration because I think they have been genuinely caught off-guard by the amount of resistance they're getting and they're trying to figure out what to do. But I really don't think that three weeks of screaming Teabaggers is going to have the effect that Republicans are hoping for.

Republicans and conservatives have been overplaying their hand for a while now, and it's turning people off in droves. If they continue at this level of screaming tantrum, they're going to marginalize themselves. It won't make any difference with the Republican congresscritters, but if they hear from enough of us, the mushy Dems might be willing to push back against the nutjobs.

Oddly, the nuttier the opponents to healthcare reform look, the more likely it is that we'll get reform, because no Blue Dog is going to want to look like one of these totally irrational nutjobs.

i think if i were a rep holding a townhall meeting in my district, i'd ask to see a voter registration card proving residence in the district before letting anyone in.

Some strategist on Countdown last night had a fantastic way to deal with these assholes:

Start the meeting with comments from a family who has been negatively affected by our current system (easy to do) -- preferably, one with a kid who has been harmed; perhaps had his benefits cut after getting sick. Then, note that families like that one are the reason our system is a failure and needs to be fixed.

After that, anyone who yells out won't be protesting the Congresscritter -- they'll be protesting a sick child.

That won't stop these clowns -- nothing will -- but it could make it a lot more difficult for the media to enable them.

Remember Code Pink disrupting Congressional Committees? Or the 2008 Republican Convention?

This is what is begat from there.

Don't like it? Don't start it.

OLD CHINESE PROVERB: Do not bend over backward so far you fall on your face.
That's what these mobs created by republican so called public relations people will do.

Don't like it? Don't start it.

Remember Ruby Ridge? Waco? Tim McVeigh?

Don't like it? Don't start it.

If that is the way the corporate thugs want to play. Don't play .. Just skip the town hall meetings and pass "Well run single payer Government Health care" and pull the plug on corporate health insurance. Put them and their multimillion dollar scam out of business with no apologizes. Go past GO do not collect billions from sick people.

In answer to:

"So what are those of us in favor of reform doing? I live in DC so I can't exactly write or call anyone, but I'm willing to attend town halls in VA or MD if necessary.

TPM asked what the blue team is doing - good question. I've seen nothing and I'm feeling like just giving money isn't enough here. Who's organizing? Where can I go? "

Go to organizing for America.org or mybarackobama.com

How dare Americans protest! What do they this this is...a free county?

Ask yourself: "If I knew all the facts about this "Healthcare Reform" bill, would I sign my name to it? We don't know all the particulars of this enormous legislation and I don't think we ever will. What does your gut tell you? Why do we automatically believe that the protestors are minions of the right? I have seen and heard protestors from the left as well and even some libertarions. I don't like much of what President Obama has done so far, but I like this step toward nationalized healthcare the least. Freedom of speech is an exercise.