The key phrase is Steve M.'s: "sane, reasonable people." Right now, those words describe very few in the opposition party. We should not and cannot take into account their insane, unreasonable reactions to our actions. Unfortunately, the so-called news media will continue to do so.

i'd hafta tip my hat to melissa harris-lacewell: that heath ledger joker character is exactly the literary meme for the repugnants and the conservatives and the birthers and the teabaggers and all the right wing nihilists.

they dont care about the truth, about the victims of their lies, about anything but trashing their political opponents.

sweet folks... and just like the Joker.

It's awful hypocritical of the right-wing bloviators to voice worries over "fishy" email notifications being sent to the White House.

I mean, they supported NSA wiretapping! If the White House wanted to collect information on "political opponents" they could do it much quicker and cleaner by scooping up emails on the intertubes and listening in on Joe Plumber's phone calls.

Remember the Patriot Act, RedStaters? You supported it.

There's no way to say something like that in a manner that won't lead to paranoid rants from the right. If the white house had said "Please don't send us any information that could identify the people passing these lies around, the same republicans would be saying "By calling people's attention to the fact that there's identifying information in the email messages, the white house is encouraging them to make enemies lists, even if they deny it."

Let me revise the first sentence. There's no way for democrats and progressives to say anything in a manner that won't lead to paranoid rants from the right.

Why would the White House need to know who does not support reform outside of congress? Votes in congress are what count and everyone knows who is who there.

Anyone think to sent a link to that RedState screed to the email address provided?

Fuck it. I'll say it: Collect their info. Round them up and move them to their own little corner of crazy. We'll even throw in free tinfoil hats.

Until we acknowledge that our public policy discourse is dominated by lunatics, we aren't going to solve anything.

They don't Tom, that's why they're not asking for that. What they asked for is for details of questions and descriptions circulating about the proposals they made, that don't sound like the actual proposals, so they can address the concerns and distortions.

Only the republicans and their tame broadcasters are pushing the idea that the President will be taking names.

If the White House is going to punish people who publicly oppose them, they should start with the ones publicly exposing the White House program to punish opponents!!

Tom: "Why would the White House need to know who does not support reform outside of congress?"

A fair question. Why are there ad campaigns in members' home districts when the only opinions that need to be swayed are in DC? The answer, I suppose, is that Congress hears what people think, especially when it's screamed loudly at town hall meetings and on cable TV.

Eugene Volokh
http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2009_08_02-2009_08_08.shtml#1249411860
thinks JamieWearingFool is going too far in the language used to attack this:

The force of the "snitch" / "rat ... out" / "Castro's Cuba" argument, I take it, comes from the suggestion that there's something improper in passing along communications from friends or neighbors -- rather than public press release or fundraising letters from organizations -- to the Administration, which is trying to rebut such communications. And that strikes me as quite mistaken, for the reasons I gave above.

Why would the White House need to know who does not support reform outside of congress?

Because, as reported yesterday, paid consultants have been writing letters to Congress purporting to be concerned citizens. In the case of the energy legislation, the paid consultants were actually caught forging letters on other organizations' letterhead. I seriously doubt that the opponents of health care reform will be any more ethical.

Wouldn't you want to know if your representative is making his or her decision based on a forgery by a paid outside group?

One way to combat the nutty right is for every person who reads this blog to write a letter to the editor of their local paper listing the positive reasons why they support reform of the health insurance system. Better yet, support single payer - maybe if the right gets scared enough about single payer, we'll at least get the public option (although I think we should be in the streets demanding single-payer). A flood of letters from sincere people, with examples of loved ones who have suffered as a result of the current system, teh insurers' fight to avoid paying out on claims, etc, is one simple response for getting past the insanity out there.

Except, that's not how the right sees it.

Thanks for that link, Steve (and the many, many others). For reasons too complicated to explain, the link doesn't work anymore -- try this instead.

[The link in the body of the post is fixed now. Thanks for giving us the right one. --Mod]

So much "outrage" on the part of Cornyn and Cantor: seems "fishy" to me, but I think the WH can figure that one out. What's disturbing TODAY -- and the awfulness of what sane, reasonable people face seems to get worse every minute -- is organized mob rule taking over democratic town hall meetings. The disrupters, reports show, also sometimes hoist SS and Nazi signs, apparently in favor of same; it's textbook take-over activity c. Germany 1930s. We also know (c.f. Rachel Maddow Show) that the "Family" in the C Street house in DC is part of a secret group of Republican legislators whose quasi "spiritual" leader advises study of the policies and methods of Hitler, Mao and Obama for lessons in how to lead effectively. I think those who promote this kind of madness foment riot, treason, and sure as hell disturbing the peace. They also seem intent on pushing the lunatic fringe over the edge, so that in addition to everything else we face, we're having to deal with a small but difficult population of energized and hostile lunatics. Where are the cops, and the emergency psychiatric services when you need them?

Tom, it's not about people who don't support reform. It's about people lying about why they don't. It's pretty simple. Idiotic emails, idiotic people who'll believe that Medicare ISN'T a government-run health care program, idiotic discourse that preys on stupid minds -- I'd wager that most people act in good faith. Unfortunately, they aren't the ones yelling into microphones to a good 20% of the population who are too ignorant to believe anything than what's being fed to them.

I'm a Texan. Believe me when I tell you that John Cornyn doesn't have a mind to lose.

Go and read the comments to the Redstate diary. They really believe this stuff. Crazy

I think many of us tend to forget just how high the stakes are here: if the Democrats and Obama, against the odds at this point, manage to pass MEANINGFUL health-care reform, with structures that can be improved and strengthened over the next decade, the GOP is doomed. Really doomed. And they know it. The GOP will probably die as a political party, or have to transform completely, if Obama and the Dems pull this off. And they're scared, because if all they have is their right-wing rump, they're toast..and if meaningful health-care reform passes, that really is all they'll have.

so, you see desperate crap like this. they're genuinely frightened of what's about to happen here..

It is disingenuous to say that because we supported the Patriot Act and wiretapping under the Bush administration, we should support it under The Chosen One.

If we had known then what we know now, we would not have supported it. Karl Rove promised us republican control of government that would last for generations! We know that we can trust republicans to do wiretapping in the best interests of our country, but we know that we cannot place the same trust in a Kenyan!

I think there are "sane" people on the right, they're just cynical. For Rush, Beck, et al, it's all about business, ratings, money. From their greedy standpoint, it's reasonable to behave this way because business has never been better.

The right is projecting...again.

Uh is not it the purpose of those opposing health care reform to be heard? If they do not want people to know their e-mail addresses then do not publish their lies over the internet. I mean it does not seem to bother Limbaugh, Malkin etc for he White House to know that they are spreading lies about the issue, why should their followers care? Do they really think that if the White House wanted to strike back that it would go after the peons rather than the leaders? Those folks not only are paranoid, they have delusions of grandeur.

A real american you are an asshole and not a real american. go live in some malia or anywere theres no goverMnent, youd be happier their

To think this August bedlam could have been avoided if a few "democratic Senators, B. Nelson, M Baucus to name 2, sided with Americans rather than corporations. It was B. Nelson who told his constiuent (that is having problems with his SMALL business with medical insurance issues) that the LARGE , OVERPAID insurance companies would lose money if he sided for his constituent rather than the corporations.

Those folks not only are paranoid, they have delusions of grandeur.

They really do. I think they get little stiffies imagining Obama bellowing to aides, "Bubba Q. Loserass of South Fork must be silenced! Take his guns! Intern him! I don't care what you do, but STOP HIM!" Then they picture themselves going all GI Joe on the prez to prevent him from personally storming their houses (their vision of themselves involves fictional muscles and omits the swinging man-boobs), and they pass out from the ecstasy of their little reveries.

So crazy pundits and politicians on the right are telling their even crazier base that if they send around scurrilous emails spreading lies and rumors, they're going to end up on some scary government watch list?

Eh. Whatever gets them to stop sending that paranoid conspiracy bullshit is fine with me, even if it's an even bigger paranoid conspiracy.

All I can say is thank Baal for John Cornyn. BTW thats Kenyan American to you Unreal American.

Everyone knows that Obama is collecting this information so that he can send his ACORN army out to arrest everyone who disagrees with him! And place them in FEMA Internment Camps for reeducation!

After all, a quote from The Chosen One is "you are either with us or against us".

Oh my, after all of these years, some of that Old Time Religion, my dearly departed mother tried to pound into me appears to be returning. A feeling is overcoming me that makes me believe these people are not crazy. They are Evil!

I dunno. A little devil's advocation...

What if it was 2002 and the Bush Administration asked for people to send in anything that was being said in opposition to the Iraq War? Wouldnt that set off some alarm bells? I think that would creep me out a bit.

Suppose in 2002 we read:

There is a lot of disinformation about Iraq out there, spanning from WMD to Al Qaeda ties. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can't keep track of all of them here at the White House, we're asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about the dangers of Saddam Hussein that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov.

Wouldnt that strike you as a bit disconcerting?

I mean, sure, Iraq *didnt* have WMD and there *werent* ties to Al Qaeda, so it's not a perfect analogy. But still, I can see how an innocuous program could be seen as sinister by the other side.

It seems to me that the fright-wing is in need of something serious to fret about. Perhaps the left could usefully start a rumor campaign about how various Bush precedents are going to allow us to round up right-wingers for multi-year re-education programs in Guantanamo. ('Psst, I heard from a senior Obama confidant in the White House, who made me promise not to name him, that Rush Limbaugh, Michele Bachmann, and Bill O'Reilly would be going on the first helicopter, in an effort to keep the program quiet until it is well underway. But don't tell anyone.') Or we could help things along by going to protests against health insurance reform and passing out signs like 'Close Guantanamo Before Hussein Obama Sends Us There', decorated with a few swastikas and KKK emblems. ;)

Don't let the WH interfere with our lying campaign. One would ask these sites to debunk the myths except they are the ones pushing them. Cornyn is beyond repugnant. Only closed minded people are even listening to these bigots.

It is such a shame that any attempts to straighten out the mess brought upon us by these asses is jumped on immediately to keep us from getting better.

Of course they don't want these viral emails exposed to the light of truth...they can only flourish if kept secret.

I get it.

Listening in on terrorists planning to attack America: another evil Republican scheme

Reporting on citizens who point out the White House is lying about the government takeover of health insurance: another lovable Phlegm 'n Crap scheme

Right wingers love the "wilfully misinterpret a straightforward statement by a Democrat and act all outraged" trick. See "Gore says he invented the Internet", "Kerry insulted our troops", "Michelle Obama said she wasn't proud of America" and many, many others.

btw...meaningful HC reform will be removing over a trillion dollars in profits over the next ten yrs from private ins.. Eventually it will end the profiteering from our health care so desperate, despicable, greedy people will do anything to prevent that from happening...anything!

If we are to do anything it is to let all know this is not going away and is not dependent on any one person. We must make it clear that the people demand 'not for profit' and that it is coming to HC ins coverage from here on. Our very lives and lifestyles depend on it.

"I get it."...No you don't Gerry. You don't get it at all.

Or you would say "reporting on citizens "lying" about the gov. take over of HC" in order to mislead" then you'd get it.

Oh and btw...they never did "listen in on terrorists planning to attack America"...they just wanted the power to listen in on all financial transactions or love spats or anything else they wanted to, completely ignoring the constitution and the bill of rights.

This is why you'll never "get it"...you have no motivation to find truth only to appease a willfully ignorant attitude. Pathetic and won't change.

White House: "If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy..."

You: "RedState interpreted this to mean "the White House wants you to report ... anybody publicly opposing" health care reform. Soon after, Rush Limbaugh had embraced the same line, and Malkin wasn't far behind. Naturally, Drudge joined the fun."

Did Rush, et all, just admit that what they spew out every day is "fishy"?

I think they did. The only other possibility is that they don't understand the meaning of some very short English words.

A Reckoning is coming, and the Liberal Agenda is going to go down in flames as Real Americans Wake up from the fog of Liberal Lies.

The White House should not have asked for information on citizens. Wake Up! This is sounding more and more like the KGB or Gestapo. This is America! God Bless It!

And Down with the DEATH CARE BILL!

Those people are seriously scary. Red State guy cannot even read correctly, and then all the other ill-informed ones pile on with misinformation, misleading quotes, and lies. This is what three decades of dumbing down America has brought us to and it is very discouraging. And once again my guess is that most of these people are arguing against their own best interests. Pathetic.

OK, can the Donkey's quit being so damn stupid now? Keith Olberman had the tone down nicely the other night in his special comment on politicians for sale. Just say the wing nuts are liars, liars, LIARS!!! Just say the wing nuts are corporate tools! Just say the wing nuts support big insurance getting between you and quality health care. NOW! DAMN IT!. How do you suppose they will spin that?

Psssssst, billings: I know you like to dress up in the knee breeches and tricorn hat and all, and you really do look mighty butch in them, but randomly capitalizing words doesn't make you sound more like a badass early American patriot. Now, if you start using f for s, we might reconsider.

hads, you are 150% correct.

I told people to see the movie "Idiocracy," from the makers of Beavus & Butthead.

This movie was hilarious, at the same time very scary.

It was a movie about the dumbing down of America. Costco, Starbuck, Carls Jr....bought the FDA and all other big government agencies - the country turned worse than 3rd world.

But you are so right.

Of course they don't want these viral emails exposed to the light of truth...they can only flourish if kept secret.

Like mushrooms, they thrive in the dark, fed by bullshit.

This is so unlike the Regime that created the Office of Information Awareness, you know, the one that encouraged meter readers, mail deliverers and neighbors to spy and report on American citizens.

What immense hypocrites.

Uh, I can I just say that I think TG Chicago up there has a point? I'm leaning towards the opinion that this was a communications fail by WH blogger Macon Phillips (who wrote the original post). Not that I don't think Phillips' motives were completely innocuous, but if the ideological tables were turned, I could totally see how we'd all be freaked out by this.

I think it's hilarious that they somehow think that when you write an email, scurrilous or otherwise, and it gets sent to a friend that forwards it to a couple of friends, who forward it to a couple of friends, all with your email address attached, that you are somehow anonymous. Besides, after so many forwards, doesn't it become public domain?

It is my understanding that companies don't want you to send jokes on their email servers because they understand all of this and how it all ends up a reflection on them. You were warned at work! Not like you were ignorant!

The right wing nuts (including good ole boy John Cornyn) are totally unhinged. All of this talk about gestapos or socialism or camps or secret data bases would be laughable except some of them (not the clever PR guys in the back room stoking this stupidity) may believe it. No wonder the American people (except in redneck pockets of deepest Dixie) are running away from the GOP in droves. They are no longer a serious political party. Sad.

Steve,
You don't honestly think this is only a right side of aisle issue do you? I know you are smarter than that.

Perhaps what the WH should have done is made it clear that they're combatting the misinformation rather than the people spreading the lies.

They could have (and should have) said that they want the misinformation sent to them without personal identifiers attached. That way it would be clear that they're seeking to stamp out lies, not stamp out liars.

Well now, if you're not lying then you have nothing to worry about, my little pinheads!

But seriously, it would tweak me if people were forwarding my e-mail address to an opposing party's collection point. I totally understand the WH wanting to get a handle on the baloney being passed around, but there are more subtle ways of getting it (that still result in the optional collection of e-mail addresses, but don't require private citizens to participate).