Borderline dangerous? There's no "borderline" about it. They have lost touch with reality and they are convinced that they are absolutely right and I guess that confers permission to act however they want. I don't pretend to understand their mindset. All I know is that they worry and disgust me. I don't understand how we're letting them get away with it. Why isn't there more of an uproar? They are thugs and terrorists.

even tho some of 'em are namby-pamby social workers, like i was back in the day, you don't mess with a union.

2nd amendment threats/allusions or otherwise, you mess with a union, you feel pain, political or otherwise...

Thugs breaking up community meetings. It's come to this.

Hmmmm, volunteer coporate stooges threatening to kill union members.

And the right thinks this would be a good thing for their movement? Wow. All it takes is one incident, and they won't be able to ask "why do we need unions any more?" for another generation.

Should violence occur, the talk show hosts cited here would be well-advised to start watching their backs.

Honestly, "You stay classy," is WAY too mild a response here. What we're seeing is the two guys in the pickup truck at the end of "Easy Rider" attempting to take over the government. Somehow, this incipient fascism needs a stronger counter-reaction.

That we live in a country that does this type of crap just disgusts me. This isn't what our country was designed to be like. I don't know what to suggest about how to deal with these jerks, but I can attest that there are just too many of them for our own good. It looks like even if we win the battle for healthcare, we'll have lost the war for the well-being of our country. One can fantasize about them being shipped off to West Texas and left to roast in the sun, but in reality, I don't know what to do.

Would there be any problem with requiring anyone who entered a townhall meeting to oppose healthcare to sign a form rejecting any form of government paid healthcare? It would help the balance of payments for Medicare to drop so many of them.

Pelosi did a dumb thing when she sent the unions to bust the heads of little old ladies. No putting the genie back in the bottle now.

Some Americans are anti-insurance companies, but all Americans hate unions.

Can't wait for a year from November. You'll see.

IMO, pro-reform groups should organize with the White House and host maybe half a dozen "Obama Campaign" style events with upwards of 20,000 or more supporters, lots of hype, lots of fanfare, distribute tickets through the DCCC and DSCC. Put Obama and Democratic Congressmen and Senators onstage, Invite the wingnuts and triple the Secret Service Protection. Let's see who's really for reform and who's just a racist who cannot fathom the idea a not white president. Let's see who would chose destruction of the United States over the welfare of it's citizens.

Of course Michael Savage would like to see "violent motorcycle groups" — he thinks guys in leather are cute.

I don't think "mainstream America" will come to the conclusions we hope.

I think it's far likelier they'll see an ineffectual response to the thuggery (by the Democrats, and esp, by Obama), and reach the quite reasonable conclusion that government is flat out useless. Government not only won't stand up for its citizens against rapacious corporations, it won't even stand up for itself against dumb thugs.

I'm coming to that conclusion myself, and I was doing cartwheels when Obama took office. I cannot adequately describe how sick at heart I am.

Caller threatening the SEIU with gun violence, as the cops show up at her door:

"How did they know it was me?! I didn't leave my name and number!"

I remember the mudflaps on the back of pickup trucks in the 'fifties: Stars & Bars, Yosemite Sam brandishing his pistols, and the message "FORGET, HELL!"

Myke K... I think you and your ultra-right wing cronies have been listening to Limbaugh too long, and you give Pelosi too much credit. If what you guys say is true, she wields more power than the President! You don't really believe that, do you?

I think you just hate the fact that she's a woman in a position of power. Kinda like you hate that that we have a black President. Shameful.

Let's fight the hate with the love.

I like bcinaz's idea. But instead of getting 20,000 people there let's get 100K. Fill up Soldier Field or Grant Park here in Chicago, get a ton of people in Central Park or, better yet, how about a good old fashioned march on Washington? I'll show up. Wouldn't you?

CaseyL: It is probably better, politically speaking, to be screamed at by a bunch of deluded old coots than it is to, oh, Taser one or two of 'em.
You can't win. These people are TRYING to become martyrs, because they think that's what they already are.

I'd like to see hordes of undead zombies eat the brains of people who favor Obamacare.

I'd like to see hordes of undead zombies eat the brains of people who favor Obamacare.

You've got the hordes of undead zombies part down, but so far they're just bumping into each other, screeching and banging on doors with canes. They don't seem to be any more competent at snagging comestible brains than they are at processing simple information.

When the Taliban took over in Afghanistan, they did much of it by intimidation: breaking up gatherings with clubs, torching schools, shouting down or harassing or shaming those people/groups/officials with more moderate views, selective violence against women not compliant with the Taliban's restrictive view of women's rights, against those speaking out for more moderate views, and against those who would keep the peace.

"Normal" people, not looking for a fight and bewildered by the semi-random aggressiveness, withdrew and stayed indoors, letting schools and "infidel" businesses go dormant, letting the Taliban take over the streets and therefore the schools and businesses - and ultimately the governments.

Turns out the real reason right wingers wanted to invade Wahhabist-inspired countries was to study in person some new tactics to use 'back home.'

I'd like to see hordes of undead zombies eat the brains of people who favor Obamacare.

Don't you think referring to your fellow teabaggers as "undead zombies" is a bit harsh? Though I have to say, spot on.

What would I most like to see? I'd like to see Democratic lawmakers so disgusted by this astroturf campaign organized by big insurers that they go back to Washington and re-draft the health reform bill as a single-payer plan, and pass it in the dead of night.

Hordes of undead zombies? You mean the teabaggers?

I am astonished on a daily basis how stupid these people are. I actually saw one of them post a screed on a right-wing site referring to "the SEIU aka ACORN". These goofs don't even know who or what they're railing against. They just want to be angry and shout.

Keep working for your corporate masters, teabaggers.

Having that uppity nee-grow in the White House is really freaking these assholes right the fuck out, isn't it?

The event in St Louis was scheduled months ago. It was a forum intended to educate seniors and families on Medicare and Medicaid policy. It was not intended to be a forum on the healthcare bill. Out of nowhere the wingnuts show up and start demanding answers.

Carnahan was not prepared. Truth be told, I think he should have been. I'm not defending the thuggish behaviors of tea-baggers, but if dems in Congress put forward a policy and people begin asking questions, they should be prepared to address the questions (even from rude, misguided people).

Carnahan was taken off guard and he should not have been. It makes him look bad and does not fair well for healthcare reform. The media will focus on an unprepared politician long before it will the teabaggers. This is par for the dems so far: as Sean Connery in The Untouchables said, "Never bring a knife to a gun fight."

Our guys need to buck up and be prepared to face these assholes down.

JMG has it exactly right. They're are begging for martyrdom, lusting for confrontation, and the media will surely spin this as 'Obama's jackbooted union thugs responding to protesters with violence.'

There's no room for negotiating or reasoning with crazy. Settle in, grab a bowl of popcorn, and enjoy the tyranny of the minority show; it won't last long. The saner elements of the party will continue to jump ship.

Whatever we do, we can't allow ourselves to be pulled into the maelstrom with them. Especially since they're far better armed. ;)

They shot Tiller, they're threatening to shoot union members who dare to attend community meetings, they're beating up community meeting attenders, shouting down senior administrators sent from DC to address the voters.

Any comparison of these activities to the Second Amendment is utter hypocrisy. This is anti-democractic, shameful, GOP-incited desecration of the Constitution.

The guy who Tweeted, "If ACORN/SEIU attends these townhalls for disruption, stop being peaceful, and hurt them. Badly." is a middle-aged man named Scott Oskay (from his Twitter page), lives in Albuquerque, and works at the Albuquerque office of Cryogenic Transportation, Inc. (from his Facebook page). His favorite book is _Atlas Shrugged_ (natch) and the extent of his education is a couple of years of community college.

Just for the record, considering he's inciting people to commit armed violence.

I'd like to see Democratic lawmakers...re-draft the health reform bill as a single-payer plan

Me too. Too bad they're too spineless to do such a thing.

These goofs don't even know who or what they're railing against.

We know exactly what we're railing against.

You wouldn't understand.

I'd like to see Democratic lawmakers so disgusted by this astroturf campaign organized by big insurers that they go back to Washington and re-draft the health reform bill as a single-payer plan

It's called HR676. Call your rep and tell 'em to support it.

We know exactly what we're railing against.
You wouldn't understand.

Yeah, it's an undereducated racist white guy thing.

"Some Americans are anti-insurance companies, but all Americans hate unions."

Are you insane?

I know lots of Americans who like unions.

I don't know a single person who like insurance companies. At best, you tolerate them. Which is why personal injury lawyers to go up against an insurance company. Because every American knows someone who got fucked over by one.

The only "peaceful" solution I can think of is to turn each of these town halls into a debate. Let the hordes find a representative to argue against health care reform with their representative (but under the provision that whoever the debater is must live in that district and prove it). In exchange, everyone shuts up unless called upon to speak, and everyone who shouts over their Rep (or the debate opponent) is found guilty of attempting to incite a riot.

Of course, that would only work if the other side was interested in debate. Which of course, they are not.

So f*ck them. Have the Rep set up ground rules with police BEFORE the town hall events, and have a uniformed officer tell people what the rules are before the town hall discussion begins, what the Rep will do, how people are expected to behave, and what will happen to those who misbehave. Bush dissenters were arrested for having "no war for oil" bumper stickers are anti-war t-shirts, without saying a word. Clearly, we can throw people out of a municipal building for denying their townspeople their right to free and peaceable assembly.

I sometimes check in on a local conservative blog (nwrepublican.blogspot.com, if you can stomach it), and the vitriol directed at SEIU is absolutely amazing. Actually, the vitriol in general is pretty astonishing and horrifying. There is no possibility of rational conversation with the blog administrator (he goes by the handle "I am Coyote") or his sympathetic commenters. They seem absolutely convinced that any commenter that attempts to engage in dialogue is a paid flunkie of ACORN/SEIU/Moveon working in cahoots with the Obama administration to .... well its not really clear. Astonishing. I have nothing but dismal predictions for the future of our country after spending any time there.

Of course, that would only work if the other side was interested in debate. Which of course, they are not.

We have tried to have a rational conversation about healthcare but the left is only interested in feelings and profanity. You are too juvenile to talk to.

Borderline dangerous? The old white coots screaming the loudest are not likely to start a riot. They may get their holy guns and start shooting, but fist fights aren't likely to be their thing.

Out shouting the fascists won't work. Fighting in the streets with them won't work either. They want to fight. They want a reason to be violent. We shouldn't give them one. If meetings are disrupted the culprits need to be ejected. If they resist, arrest them. If there is a riot, call out the riot squad. The police certainly have enough tools these days to quell a riot. Unfortunately, many of the police are on the side of the rioters.

We just can't sink to their level of hatred, rage, racism, bigotry, and stupidity. Spineless politicians are likely to be spooked, but we have to let them know that caving in to fascism will cost them their jobs.

"Some Americans are anti-insurance companies, but all Americans hate unions."

Really ? Then why are the Americans in unions ?Maybe you should ask the next cop that you see...

The best way to end this is to get protestors on tape saying things as ridiculous as the quote above. Get one of them alone and force them to try and form a coherent sentence.

It's what killed Palin\McCain and the birthers.

If a guy with a muslim name said the things Oskay has tweeted, the FBI SWAT team would already have him in custody, and the US attorney would be preparing charges. This guy is a terrorist and should be held accountable for his hateful and violent words. But IOKIYAR, as always...

this is a golden opportunity. think mousetrap.

"TONIGHT: Local Dem Sen. and Members of Obama Admin take your questions on Health Care! One of the Biggest Gatherings Ever! All media will be there! Sponsored by SEIU, ACORN, and MoveOn.org"

Rent a giant hall. Have the dais near a door. Have local activist Dems out front to turn away any actual Dems. Let hte place fill to the rafters with wingnuts. Then sneak the Senator out the back door, and chain all of the doors and windows shut with heavy chains.

Declare the entire place quarantined for public safety. The next morning, surround it with a giant fence.

I remember people suggesting - in a roundabout sort of way - that the United States might see another civil war, based on the bitter hatreds expressed during the presidential campaign in 2008.

Given that the GOP is now dominated by far-far-right Dixiecrats (and even the unhappy elements in the GOP acknowledge that it is), maybe those people were right.

The climate is poisonous, deliberately being whipped on to violence by rightie activists who characterize all those loyal to Obama as not real Americans. Could an actual conflict between real Americans and not-real Americans be coming? If so, the right will be sorry, because it's a distinct minority now.

The only rule that's really important is the Golden Rule, and Republicans would do well to keep it in mind for the day when they once again assume power, as they inevitably must. Don't be squawking about bipartisanship then, and demanding that Democrats support Republican initiatives because they're good for the country. Expect a grinding war of attrition that will be bad for everyone, because that's the only tactic you know.

Ahhhh -- Myke K: if the left is too juvenile to talk to, why is it that the right is suppressing any hope of dialogue at Townhalls with their poor behavior?

Last I knew such disruptive behavior, which, coincidentally stifles a democratic exchange of ideas (as opposed to ill-informed sloganeering), was .. um .. childish.

One thing I've noticed is the ability of those on the right to project their own fears, prejudices, actions and thoughts on those they disagree with. Apparently this psychological legerdemain allows them to feel good about themselves.

A clear example is on view in this post:

A reform opponent in New Mexico, for example, has been using Twitter to encourage conservatives to consider violence. In one message, he wrote, "If ACORN/SEIU attends these townhalls for disruption, stop being peaceful, and hurt them. Badly."

Exactly is who is being disruptive? (Hint: it's not the Democrats.)

That's right, feelings and profanity! That's what I've always said the Left cares about.

If they had their way, they'd make EVERYBODY have feelings and cuss all the time!

If they think SEIU can be rolled and intimidated, maybe we need some help from the UAW and the Teamsters?

btw, where DOES the Teamsters stand on health-care reform?

Strategery and Tactics

--- How do I know this is the norm? Because I used to have strategy meetings with the late Jack Kemp and Dick Army and the rest of the Republican gang about using their business ties to help finance the pro-life movement to defeat Democrats. I know this script. I helped write it... Here's the emerging American version of the fascist's formula: combine millions of dollars of lobbyists' money with embittered troublemakers who have a small army of not terribly bright white angry people (collected over decades through pro-life mass mailing networks) at their beck and call, ever ready to believe any myth or lie circulated by the semi literate and completely and routinely misinformed right wing - Evangelical religious underground. Then put his little mob together with the insurance companies' big bucks. That's how it works - American Brown Shirts at the ready.---

http://www.truthout.org/080709H

Myke K, if lefties are too juvenile to talk to, why are you always trying to talk to us?

I love the second amendment threat. Now I understand why righties love the second amendment. It's what they fall back on when they are a minority and no one "listens" (i.e. submits) to their point of view.

One comment I keep getting from my conservative friends is that if we get this bill, we won't be "free". Somehow living without insurance is freeing. And they are for the free market as long as no one (Unions for example) takes a risk (losing their jobs and in the past, and maybe the future, dying for solidarity) and ends up making more money for themselves. Only the uberclass is allowed to make as much money as they possibly can.

Interesting and informative. But will you write about this one more?

One comment I keep getting from my conservative friends is that if we get this bill, we won't be "free". Somehow living without insurance is freeing.

You know, it's fine for critics to say that the plans on the table wouldn't help, or do the wrong things, or cost too much, or what have you. But what the fuck is up with the totalitarian rhetoric? Over health care? Isn't this like saying No Child Left Behind uses public schools to turn your sweet innocent child into a remorseless killing machine? Read the bill! Liar!

I remember people suggesting - in a roundabout sort of way - that the United States might see another civil war, based on the bitter hatreds expressed during the presidential campaign in 2008.

Given that the GOP is now dominated by far-far-right Dixiecrats (and even the unhappy elements in the GOP acknowledge that it is), maybe those people were right.

Orcinus's Sara Robinson has an extremely insightful post up about how America has reached zero hour. The section headed The third stage: being there is critical.

Historican Robert Paxton has theorized that the KKK, a militia group made up of angry white low-education racists determined to enforce its own ideals over the government's, was the first functional fascist group. Sara's point is that we must consider now the Tea Bagger/Birther movement, wherein angry white low-education racist mobs funded and egged on by corporate interests stir up violence and shut down discourse to enforce their own ideals over the democratically-elected government's. It's no wonder that the roots of both movements are the same mobs determined to stop progress that helps everyone instead of only the rich corporate ruling class.

Good post at Crooks & Liars under Mike' blog reports shows just how dangerous what Beck, Limbaugh, Savage and the rest of the haters are promoting. Here's a part of it:

8/07/09...From "Facism: are we there yet" at Crooks & Liars:

“…That description sounds eerily like the dire straits our Congressional Republicans find themselves in right now. Though the GOP has been humiliated, rejected, and reduced to rump status by a series of epic national catastrophes mostly of its own making, its leadership can't even imagine governing cooperatively with the newly mobilized and ascendant Democrats. Lacking legitimate routes back to power, their last hope is to invest the hardcore remainder of their base with an undeserved legitimacy, recruit them as shock troops, and overthrow American democracy by force. If they can't win elections or policy fights, they're more than willing to take it to the streets, and seize power by bullying Americans into silence and complicity.
When that unholy alliance is made, the third stage -- the transition to full-fledged government fascism -- begins.

Snip

“…the guessing game is over. We know beyond doubt that the Teabag movement was created out of whole cloth by astroturf groups like Dick Armey's FreedomWorks and Tim Phillips' Americans for Prosperity, with massive media help from FOX News. We see the Birther fracas -- the kind of urban myth-making that should have never made it out of the pages of the National Enquirer -- being openly ratified by Congressional Republicans. We've seen Armey's own professionally-produced field manual that carefully instructs conservative goon squads in the fine art of disrupting the democratic governing process -- and the film of public officials being terrorized and threatened to the point where some of them required armed escorts to leave the building. We've seen Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner applauding and promoting a video of the disruptions and looking forward to "a long, hot August for Democrats in Congress."
This is the sign we were waiting for -- the one that tells us that yes, kids: we are there now. America's conservative elites have openly thrown in with the country's legions of discontented far right thugs. They have explicitly deputized them and empowered them to act as their enforcement arm on America's streets, sanctioning the physical harassment and intimidation of workers, liberals, and public officials who won't do their political or economic bidding.
This is the catalyzing moment at which honest-to-Hitler fascism begins. It's also our very last chance to stop it..."

We must stop thinking that it is the 'fringe crazies" against a policy reform and start looking at them as foot soldiers who very soon now will be violent actors for repubs and their corporate masters to stay in power.

THESE CORPORATE SPONSORED CRAZIES WOULD OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT TO STOP HC INS REFORM BECAUSE IT WOULD BE TOOOOOO GOOD FOR THE PEOPLE. We are the majority and must stop the organizers of this thuggery by insisting on civility in our political discourse and condemning those instigating violence. Unfortunately they have taken control of our 'public' airwaves and are yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. They hope to turn this into a civil war and use the shock doctrine to take control of our economy.

What else would you call someone saying "you should follow your congressman home and attack him at his residence", (he implies talking but knows it will translate to violence) but a Nazi. Calling on Motorcycle gangs to disrupt political discourse = a Nazi. Instigating violence demands removal from the public airwaves.

Be alert as it IS already upon us and for once...it's not the government. Liberal governments cannot abide with Nazism...period...never. But the corporate state can and does very well with it. That's how you know who is the real demon here.

LOL, bjobotts, that's the exact post I linked to! Glad to know Mike linked to it and people are seeing it.

Sara is trained in trend analysis. I will not argue with her when she says of these people:

Unfortunately, all the noise and bluster actually obscures the danger. These people are as serious as a lynch mob, and have already taken the first steps toward becoming one. And they're going to walk taller and louder and prouder now that their bumbling efforts at civil disobedience are being committed with the full sanction and support of the country's most powerful people, who are cynically using them in a last-ditch effort to save their own places of profit and prestige.

Out of curiosity, I went to a right-wing based site to see what they are saying, re:protests.

Almost everyone on the site expressed concern and worries about being audited by the IRS. As a result of this, most said they will no longer send any emails to the WH.

This is weird, because they are so anti-government, why would they put themselves in a position to have to be put in jail/prison. This would put them in constant care/monitoring by the gov they despise.

I think they (protestors) should be not only checked for mental illnesses, but drug/alcohol abuse! I know the main problem is mental illness, seems the majority of Americans suffer from mental illness. It is sad that the only time it is mentioned about these peoples' mental illnesses is when it is sadly too late!!!

I know I'm going to take a lot of swipes at what I've said in the above post.

But think about it, doesn't it make you wonder why all of a sudden the majority of this population is on some type of medication?

The medical industry is fighting for their very existence! I never thought I'd see the day that almost everyone I know is on some type of mind altering drug.

There are kids on medication for ADD, ADHD...teenagers are on drugs for bi-polar.

There's something wrong! People need books like "The Purpose Driven Life," or to watch Dr. Phil to make them aware that something is wrong. All the while, their own family members and friends can't get them recognize they need to clean up their act.

Now, that doesn't take away the fact, the other Americans are using Alcohol, illegal drugs to make them feel good.

Then there's the last of Americans that have serious medical conditions that affect their moods & mind, like Diabetes, Thyroid disorders -

Home buyers have to be careful of buying a home because if it was a meth lab, it will cause the new homeowners to get sick.

This folks, is what the American dream is. People need to wake up and realize, yes, it was a dream. And that is the biggest pyramid scheme ever, played on the American people - if you don't have wealth, that's all you get, a dream!!!!

Posted by: Ephemereal on August 7, 2009 at 7:56 PM

Ditto. Excellent. I posted and then saw you had posted and went far out cool. Thanks.

My alter ego is getting much better. I couldn't have said it better myself.

The St Louis incident:

Did you see the expression on the SEIU thug's face when his friend pointed out the camera that had recorded the whole beating of the black guy who was trying to sell buttons at the rally ? Your side is supposed to be the tech savvy bunch. You'd better do a crash course for the SEIU goons. Cameras record stuff.

Good luck with this attempt to put the genie back into the bottle.

Did anyone see the cheesy apologetic puff piece about Michael Savage in the New Yorker? Check it out, it is incredible. I don't know what happened to them, but lots of people are canceling.

So now there should be no doubt that the RepoTaliban is truly the Republican Nazi party and they are sending their brown shirts out to harm, hurt, destroy and kill.

The Republican Party has shown for atleast the last 30 years that what it can't win it will steal.

Aren't there plenty of people who are angry about what the insurance companies do to them sometimes? Where are they?

*

Hey mhr, the bill provides for EOL counseling being paid for, not demanding it happen. If you don't want EOL counseling, don't get it - isn't that "freedom"? And REM those old people are already in the government program Medicare, and that seems to work for them.

Mike K (the real one), I find your report hard to believe, but being open minded, pls. say what time that incident happened and I'll look for it - but are you sure who is who?

Find it yourself. I don't have time to do your homework.

Or any homework, for that matter, which explains the low signal-to-noise ratio of your posts. I do so love that you're embracing your troll, though.

Mike K (the real one), I find your report hard to believe, but being open minded, pls. say what time that incident happened and I'll look for it - but are you sure who is who?
Posted by: N e i l B

I find it hard to believe you can't find it but here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXBOgPCh9w

The guy was unemployed and selling buttons and flags. He wasn't even an"activist" as he has been described.

Ok, I saw the video that Mike K talks about. It shows ONE SEIU worker loosing his cool and attacking someone. I see a WHOLE LOT OF SEIU workers polling him off and screaming at him that This Isn't Going to Help Us. Get Off of him.
Seems the Union did not support the attack. It was just One Person losing his cool.
Which is a Hell of a Lot different from the Goon Squads the Right Wingnuts are sending that are Completely Stopping any kind of meeting.
But you know, One of us loses their cool and The Whole Right Wingnut system comes down on them and it becomes ALL of us. Which isn't true, but we all know truth has nothing to do with it.
I found it on You Tube, just google SEIU attack St Louis and you'll find it.
But like I said, Almost IMMEDIATELY the thing was stopped by Other Union Members. So much for this being an organized Union Attack.

The guy was unemployed and selling buttons and flags. He wasn't even an"activist" as he has been described.

You let the genie out of the bottle, you stupid motherfucker by supporting this crap, and you think it serves your purpose if everyone with an IQ less than 90 in this country goes on a rampage because they "want their country back" -- meaning they don't like the fact that the majority of
Americans voted for a black president, they think illegal aliens are the root of all their problems and not greedy white "Christians" screwing them at every turn, and they don't want want people to even be allowed to talk about their taxes being raised.

And the only way they can get their country back from a black president in a democratic election is a revolution, and the only way they can get it back from the people exploiting them on Wall Street is to wake the fuck up and realize it.

I looked at the video link Mike K provided (with the usual pointless snark - I'd be happy to paste a link without bitching about doing homework etc.) I have screen magnification through NVIDIA and noticed, the tee shirt of the guy beating up the other one did not say "SEIU." It was black too, but you can see it is a different logo. He may have been a member anyway, but the other SEIU were wearing shirts clearly marked "SEIU."