Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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August 8, 2009

PALIN SEES 'DEATH PANELS'.... In her first policy statement since quitting as Alaska's governor, Sarah Palin decided to go full-on, cover-your-eyes crazy. Here's what the former governor wrote on her Facebook page yesterday:

As more Americans delve into the disturbing details of the nationalized health care plan that the current administration is rushing through Congress, our collective jaw is dropping, and we're saying not just no, but hell no!

The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course.

The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

As a substantive matter, this might be the stupidest thing ever written about health care policy. Just two weeks after she implored journalists to "quit making things up," Palin has manufactured the idea of a "death panel" out of thin air. As Time's Karen Tumulty noted, "Yes, such a system would indeed be downright evil. Which is why no one is proposing anything like it. Let's repeat: No one is proposing anything like it."

What's more, if we're going to take Palin's truly insane babblings seriously as a policy pronouncement, it's also worth noting that the former governor points to one relevant angle. As publius noted, "[T]here are people who weigh whether children like Trig are worthy of insurance. They're called insurance companies, and they have decided that these children are not in fact worthy of coverage. That's because Down Syndrome is a 'pre-existing condition.'"

But in the larger political context, a statement like this positions Palin as something of a disgrace. After insisting that her family be left out of political debate, here's Palin dragging her special-needs infant son into the discussion, in order to spread an obvious lie. What's more, for Palin to write such a statement for public review makes clear that she's either conspicuously unintelligent or she thinks her followers are idiots. Either she believes her own vile nonsense or she assumes her audience is foolish enough to believe patently ridiculous attacks.

Either way, Sarah Palin is a national embarrassment, and she's getting worse.

Steve Benen 8:00 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (55)

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Comments

Worse yet, it's really not at all surprising to hear this kind of crazy issuing from the Republican vice-presidential nominee.

As I said here yesterday, there's a way to deal with this: it's to simply call it out, ask the crazy person making the statement to point out what version of the bill this provision is found in, and in what section and on which page. Which should be fairly easy to do with Palin, who's known for beating a path to the nearest camera and microphone. Of course her followers will regard that as an unfair question since it's like, hard and requires her to know stuff.

Posted by: Jennifer on August 8, 2009 at 8:10 AM | PERMALINK

Sarah Palin, queen of Americans who take pride in their own ignorance.

Posted by: Susan Johnson on August 8, 2009 at 8:13 AM | PERMALINK

"[Palin's] either conspicuously unintelligent or she thinks her followers are idiots."

This doesn't have to be a zero-sum analysis, Steve. I'm opting for both of the above.

Posted by: azportsider on August 8, 2009 at 8:16 AM | PERMALINK

"or she thinks her followers are idiots. "

They aren't?

Posted by: Ruth in NC on August 8, 2009 at 8:17 AM | PERMALINK

The entire Republican Party is a national embarrassment.

Posted by: worcestergirl on August 8, 2009 at 8:19 AM | PERMALINK

Must say, it's nice to see one MSMer up in Palin's grill toot sweet. Of course, the problem is what a small percentage of the populace these days will see or hear of stuff in online Time.

Still, good on Tumulty!

Posted by: lotus on August 8, 2009 at 8:20 AM | PERMALINK

Steve,I'd agree with you that "death panels" is evidence of someone completely ill informed, and, dare I say it, another example of her utter stupidity. But, I'm not sure I agree with you on the pre-existing condition analysis for a child with Down's Syndrome. The problem is even more fundamental. The concern I'd have were I her - a thought that sends shivers up my spine - would be that subsequent health carriers may not be willing to insure my chld at all.

Posted by: William Jensen on August 8, 2009 at 8:23 AM | PERMALINK

I just love that the only platform to get her "ideas" out is Facebook. LOL, OMG!!

Posted by: swarty on August 8, 2009 at 8:25 AM | PERMALINK

If republicans are able to use "death" as an adjective for anything they don't like (estate taxes, health care), we should have the right to do the same. The only problem is finding an adjective that fits the crap they come up with. "Stupid" or "ignorant" doesn't quite cover it. Perhaps we should hold a contest. What would Shakespeare suggest? Or Elvis Costello?

Posted by: Broken Arrow on August 8, 2009 at 8:28 AM | PERMALINK

Jennifer, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Palin actually read the relevant part of the bill and simply reached the wrong conclusion...again. She does, after all, appear to have some sort of cognitive disorder on top of a personality disorder or two.

Posted by: Norwood Woman on August 8, 2009 at 8:28 AM | PERMALINK

"she's either conspicuously unintelligent or she thinks her followers are idiots. Either she believes her own vile nonsense or she assumes her audience is foolish enough to believe patently ridiculous attacks."

Or both!

Posted by: Okie on August 8, 2009 at 8:29 AM | PERMALINK

Either she believes her own vile nonsense or she assumes her audience is foolish enough to believe patently ridiculous attacks.

Neither she nor her followers believe it, because what's true or not is irrelevant. What matters is that the more outrageous the accusation - even if nobody really believes it - the more it feeds the scary-ni**er-stole-the-White-House meme.

Expanding and perpetuating the meme - that's the goal. Whatever it takes.

Posted by: Yellow Dog on August 8, 2009 at 8:35 AM | PERMALINK

This is not either/or. It's both.

Posted by: gelfling545 on August 8, 2009 at 8:36 AM | PERMALINK

A good gauge of the crazy level in America these days - like we need another example - is to read the number of "thank you for speaking the truth" and "God Bless you Sarah Palin" type comments on her Facebook page. Frightening indeed.

Posted by: BullCity on August 8, 2009 at 8:36 AM | PERMALINK

She has done a great service by putting her fears in print, for all to see. The MSM has done a terrible job of explaining the weird behavior of the town hall ruffians--the same information that THEY are getting through their information environments has not really intersected with the MSM. But Palin has the star power to attract the big spotlight, and now the rest of the public can learn what is eating these people, and the extent to which they have been victims of a disinformation campaign. This is the clearest example I can think of in terms of how the Ruling Class in the High Castle frightens the peons to maintain the status quo and the balance of power. Textbook.

Posted by: c6Logic on August 8, 2009 at 8:38 AM | PERMALINK

Any journalist who'd ask her directly about this would be accused of gotcha journalism.

Posted by: Rosali on August 8, 2009 at 8:39 AM | PERMALINK

Snark aside, I really think posts like these take her out of the national running for office (not like she had a chance to win anyway). Her handlers knew she was doing this and also know that that such an extreme comment would be used against her in interviews, debates, and the general workings of a campaign.

Posted by: Howie B on August 8, 2009 at 8:43 AM | PERMALINK

I just wrote my senator Burr of NC urging him to stand up against the thugs that are disrupting citizens right to have a peaceful townhall meeting. I told him I fear that someone will be killed or seriously injured if the repubs do not stop this.I want the rethugs to know they will be held accountable.

Posted by: JS on August 8, 2009 at 8:46 AM | PERMALINK

I agree with c6Logic. I think the fact that Sarah Palin, media darling, said this makes it much more likely that the MSM will cover it. I think that's a good thing so that people will understand what's happening here.

Posted by: Unstable Isotope on August 8, 2009 at 8:54 AM | PERMALINK

- Yellow Dog on August 8, 2009 at 8:35 said:

"Neither she nor her followers believe it, because what's true or not is irrelevant. What matters is that the more outrageous the accusation - even if nobody really believes it - the more it feeds the scary-ni**er-stole-the-White-House meme.

Expanding and perpetuating the meme - that's the goal. Whatever it takes."

- He's got it EXACTLY RIGHT!

- Howie B on August 8, 2009 at 8:43 AM said:

"Snark aside, I really think posts like these take her out of the national running for office (not like she had a chance to win anyway). Her handlers knew she was doing this and also know that that such an extreme comment would be used against her in interviews, debates, and the general workings of a campaign."

- That is EXACTLY WRONG! Statements like this will make her a hero among the "Right?" (See Yellow Dog above)

Posted by: Mark-NC on August 8, 2009 at 8:55 AM | PERMALINK

Her handlers knew she was doing this and also know that that such an extreme comment would be used against her in interviews, debates, and the general workings of a campaign.

Spurred by her successes in this area at her rallies last year, she has apparently narrowed down her future national role to inciter of the least educated, least rational and least emotionally healthy voters to the greatest amount of fear, loathing, rage and potential violence.

What a legacy. When the losers start shooting, it's on your big-haired head, Sarah.

Posted by: shortstop on August 8, 2009 at 8:56 AM | PERMALINK

- That is EXACTLY WRONG! Statements like this will make her a hero among the "Right?" (See Yellow Dog above)

They will make her a hero among the worst elements of the right, who are unfortunately driving the train of public "discourse." They won't get her elected -- no matter what. They absolutely will whip up the self-identified victims who are already foaming at the mouth to greater flights of lunacy.

I really think that at this point, throwing bombs is the only thing she's certain she wants to do -- as long as the adulation of the unhinged keeps coming in, she'll think about tomorrow later.

Posted by: shortstop on August 8, 2009 at 9:00 AM | PERMALINK

The Palin Pander

Posted by: paulo on August 8, 2009 at 9:01 AM | PERMALINK

Which is harder to believe; the administration's version of health care will sponsor death panels or prohibit competitive pricing with Big Pharma Inc. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/07/white-house-confirms-deal_n_254408.html)? The inmates are running this asylum. Resistance is futile. Eat your chemicals. Close your eyes. You are getting sleepy. Pleasant dreams.

Posted by: Chopin on August 8, 2009 at 9:04 AM | PERMALINK

In a weird way, I wonder if Palin and the shouters are actually going to do us all a service. The frustrating thing about the health insurance reform debate is that, unless you go with a straight-on single payer solution (good idea but not gonna happen right now) or grafting a single payer solution onto our current employer-based system (better idea that's pretty much dead too), the reforms are complex and hard to explain. This makes the debate hard for the MSM to cover --- all the details make their poor little heads hurt and, to be fair, it is hard to explain in a few hundred words the details of what's being considered.

That's where people like Palin help out. By injecting "death panels" and Obama with a Hitler mustache into the debate, all nuance is gone and it may get easier to enact reforms. If one side of the argument is trying to propose solutions and the other side is just screaming crazy shit, maybe it makes it easier to for the non-insane 75% to agree on something.

In my more optimistic moments, I love to imagine a Blue Dog getting so many of these crazies in his face screaming and hanging him in effigy that he decides to favor a robust public option just to spite them.

Posted by: paul on August 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM | PERMALINK

There's a state where Trig may have been in trouble. W had signed a bill as the governor in Texas, where a committee did decide whether or not medicaid would cover the cost of keeping people alive. There was one particular example of a baby whose coverage had run out at the time of the Schiavo craptacular. The state said no more coverage for the baby, but the parents had the option of moving him to a different hospital and paying for coverage privately.

Posted by: CAINMI on August 8, 2009 at 9:19 AM | PERMALINK

Paul, read Steven Pearlstein's column in yesterday's Washington Post. It's pretty easy to understand the basics.

Read him before The Post fires him.

Posted by: Bob Johnson on August 8, 2009 at 9:24 AM | PERMALINK

She's jumped the shark. In any primary race, any political race, this will come back on her.

Posted by: g on August 8, 2009 at 9:36 AM | PERMALINK

Some young Poli Sci prof who want to be the next Hofsteder (sp) can get started now on dog-whistle politics, of which Palin is the current embodiment.
Unlike GWB, who couldn't say his own name smoothly and telegraphed every one he used, she's better at the under the radar stuff, but she does have her tells--the "ya knows", the winks.

Posted by: Steve Paradis on August 8, 2009 at 9:46 AM | PERMALINK

We won the damn election already. The majority should pass the agenda on which it campaigned and won. I shouldn't have to put up with robocalls, daily email action alerts and hot winded town hall mob scenes. I shouldn't be bombarded with this unswattable locust plague of paranoid fools, ginned up to a frenzy by rich, lying douchebags and Sarah Palin.

Posted by: Aatos on August 8, 2009 at 9:58 AM | PERMALINK

I don't see a downside to her speaking out on healthcare reform. I rather hope that she keeps it up. Sarah Palin is already seen negatively by the majority of Americans. To the extent opposition to healthcare reform is identified with that her brand, reform efforts benefit.

As other have noted above, she'll bring media attention to events on the ground. The more people see of reform opponents thuggish behavior, the better.

Posted by: AK Liberal on August 8, 2009 at 10:00 AM | PERMALINK

Birthers, Killing Granny, government take over of Medicare and now death panels. And you wonder why a Quinnipiac poll released this morning shows a solid majority of people opposed to any health care reform (52-39). I expect to see polls showing less than 35% of Americans support any reform by Sept. 15. Some conservative Democratic Senators will probably not vote for closure on a health care filibuster. The Republicans will claim they saved America from a socialist take over of health care to kill granny and Medicare. And we won't hear about health care reform again for anther 15 years. Steven Pearlstein is right. Health care is a test of the American system of government. But "The Paranoid Style in American Politics" has emerged triumphant. Welcome to the oligarchy.

Posted by: E L on August 8, 2009 at 10:04 AM | PERMALINK

Sarah Palin is already seen negatively by the majority of Americans. To the extent opposition to healthcare reform is identified with that her brand, reform efforts benefit.

Except that, as E L points out, reform efforts aren't benefiting from any of this wild-eyed talk. They're suffering. More each week.

Posted by: shortstop on August 8, 2009 at 10:09 AM | PERMALINK

Once again, your headline is apropos!

Sarah Palin sees
so many things
no one on LSD
should have to see!

Her hallucinations should not be credible headlines in the MSM, but should be instead the very nature of what is newsworthy.

The outcome of stirring up torch and pitchfork mobs can be a bitch. My best to the Republican party in the early 21st century! -Kevo

Posted by: kevo on August 8, 2009 at 10:12 AM | PERMALINK

Now let me see. Obama when questioned on the charge that his health care reform will mean rationing shoots back that health care is already being rationed. I will now try to reason through this logically to see if this is true, because I believe we can come to some meeting of the minds so to speak. When my elderly mother had a benign brain tumor removed a few years back, she did not have to succumb to any outside board inquiring whether such an operation would be cost effective. Medicare was not under any such mandate. Therefore, her treatment had no taint of being rationed whatsoever. Now, correct me, I beg of you, if I am wrong here, but wouldn't the current legislation set up just such an oversight board to determine whether her operation would be cost effective from the standpoint of metrics like life expectancy, quality of life, and other such rubrics? In fact, I know I will be accused of engaging in the logical fallacy of slippery slope here, but isn't this the essence of the meaning of the term "Useless Eaters" that the Nazis used during their reign of terror? And isnt the same type of statistical manipulation that Dr. Emmanuel engages in with his "lifeboat ethics" type discussions in the New York Times which also underlies the mathematics of the so called quants that lead us to the collapse of the speculative bubble. And why is it that we simply had to bail out insurance behemoth AIG to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars (much of which is why Goldman Sachs is doing so well today) without flinching, but can't afford too expensive medical procedures on the other hand? Please would Mr. Obama or his any of his surrogates like to enlighten me in my state of confusion on these issues?

Posted by: Thingumbob on August 8, 2009 at 10:28 AM | PERMALINK

"After insisting that her family be left out of political debate, here's Palin dragging her special-needs infant son into the discussion, in order to spread an obvious lie."

A repubican politician trying to have it both ways? In the immortal words of Palin herself, "Say it ain't so, Joe."

What's alarming to me is that there isn't greater hue and cry from the media about the republican fabrications that are flying around the nets. I'm glad Tumulty is taking note, but what about the lovely rumor that the government will euthanize old, "expendable" people, or the lie that these bills would nationalize health care. There are other crazy talking points that I haven't mentioned, I'm sure.

All I see from the media is a form of broadcasting of these statements without actually validating the truth of them. I mean, how hard can this be? Are any of the various bills written mandating euthanasia, or "death panels"? If the media is going to report it then point out the truth. Otherwise the outcome is a form of legitimization of these half-baked, delusional interpretations of a still non-existant bill.

Posted by: ChrisNBama on August 8, 2009 at 10:29 AM | PERMALINK

Most Down Syndrome adults are either covered by a conspicuously generous insurance policy offered to their parents, or by a government health care program. Medicaid and Medicare, I would imagine, provide the vast majority of coverge to individuals with Down Syndrome. No one has been put to death or denied life saving services (most notably, heart suregery) yet on account of having trisomy 21. If you go over to Andrew Sullivan's site, however, you will find that a reader wrote in to state that her insurer was refusing to insure her sick newborn on account of the fact that he had a pre-existing condition. She's an idiot, her followers are idiots and nothing you can say will ever enlighten them because it is not in their interest to become enlightened.

Posted by: Barbara on August 8, 2009 at 10:35 AM | PERMALINK

Sarah Palin as a facepage blogger is quickly becoming Alaska's Ben Tribett!

Posted by: Tom on August 8, 2009 at 10:36 AM | PERMALINK

PLEASE Sarah, keep speaking out! Don't hold back! America needs to hear from you especially in the campaigns of every republican running in 2010! Oh, and bring Glen Beck with you to their rally's. You two need face time together!

Posted by: Bartender on August 8, 2009 at 10:45 AM | PERMALINK

I live in Georgia, a decidedly conservative state (Paul Broun is my congressman), and yet, my 5 year old child with Down Syndrome qualifies for Medicaid. Medicaid covers nearly all of his medical expenses, although it is insufficient to cover many of his expensive therapies.

Over the last 10 years my salary at the University of Georgia has risen 30%. Over the same period, my health insurance premiums, which cover the other four people in my family, have tripled -- partly because the premium itself has risen dramatically, and partly because my employer reduced its share of the premium it was willing to pay, shifting a greater portion of the premiums onto its employees.

We are barely treading water now. Without medicaid we would have been financially sunk 5 years ago. I am never surprised, but always disgusted, by Miss Palin's willingness to exploit her son's condition for politcal gain in profoundly dishonest ways.

Here's a mini-project for Steve: How many states currently cover special needs individuals through Medicaid?

Posted by: Plim on August 8, 2009 at 10:47 AM | PERMALINK

Palin will say anything to stay in the spotlight even if it is furthering Republican lies about healthcare reform. There is a related post at http://iamsoannoyed.com/?page_id=588

Posted by: carly on August 8, 2009 at 10:49 AM | PERMALINK

Hit Pailn where she allegedly lives. She claims to be a Christian -- she is guilty of bearing false witness.

Posted by: DJ on August 8, 2009 at 10:58 AM | PERMALINK


Let Palin be Palin !

(Just make sure to get it on video)

Posted by: Joe Friday on August 8, 2009 at 11:38 AM | PERMALINK

Really, ed? Then you won't mind quoting the relevant language or just the sec (1233?) to see what conclusion you're drawing. No, it's not in there, what's there are quality of life panels to employ best practices, sort of the same thing every company I've worked for goes through this sort of exercise regularly.
Cuts down on waste, ed, saves money, doesn't decide to kill people.


How many Down syndrome citizens in the UK or France? More than one? Then, Palin's full of crap.
But we knew that.

If you think she doesn't have a following, go read Althouse. Here's Ann: I have found myself saying, in conversation, "I'm afraid Obama is going to kill me." Now, I'm not picturing him or one of his minions coming over to murder me, but I am afraid that as I get older and need expensive care to keep me alive that I will be told I cannot have it, because at my age, in the government's opinion, there's not enough life left in me to be worth the money that I would take from the system that needs to pay for everything.

Posted by: TJM on August 8, 2009 at 12:19 PM | PERMALINK

People are getting this because of quotes from articles Ezekiel Emanuel has (co)authored which are being taken out of context to suggest this sort of thing. In particular is a quote from an article in a recent edition of the Medical Journal the Lancet.

I have read the article and it is about under what ethical system should a scarce medical resource like transplantable organs or limited number of vaccines be allocated. They review a number of utilized and proposed ways to make these decisions and propose one that mixes the decision based on prognosis, what will save the most lives, the use of a lottery system, instrumental value, and the age of the life expectancy of the person weighted to those in adolescence or early adulthood.

Somehow the crazies have taken this to be a general policy about making judgements on who should receive treatment in general, which is a complete fabrication.

Posted by: todd on August 8, 2009 at 12:40 PM | PERMALINK

I had an uncle with Downs and he was covered by the government all the way up to the very end when he spent over 2 years in a catatonic state at a high quality care facility. Someone ask palin if trig is on a similar plan. Much as I resent his mother's existence that little guy deserves the same or better kind of support my uncle received from the society in which he was born.

Posted by: Hank on August 8, 2009 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

"...or she assumes her audience is foolish enough to believe patently ridiculous attacks."

Thanks to right-wing extremists like her that
manage to get people to believe their lies with their bullying tactics, I'm beginning to think our country is doomed, and I'm absolutely serious.

The fact that there ARE people who DO believe her, is the saddest part of all.

Posted by: mrspeel on August 8, 2009 at 1:00 PM | PERMALINK

thingumbob - Medicare routinely rations care by limiting the number of days it will pay for hospital stays. At some number of days (I don't remember the exact number, but it's around 45 days), Medicare begins to use a percentage scale to determine what it will pay. After another number of days (like 30 or so), they stop paying altogether. That's rationing. I'm sure it's not the only way they ration care (payments), it just happens to be the one I know about.

More importantly, what I believe the President was referring to is that rationing is already occurring under PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE, which is absolutely true.

Posted by: carolatl on August 8, 2009 at 1:02 PM | PERMALINK

Glen Beck and Sarah Palin should breed-- then those babies could grow up to be the new leaders of the GOP.

Posted by: zoe kentucky on August 8, 2009 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINK

Just interview a few of her "supporters" and the answer becomes clear..."My Palin right or wrong". How does one become so willfully ignorant that they cannot be disappointed because no matter what one ever thought of Palin it has been demonstrated she is clueless and pathetic to the point of embarrassment. It's pretty stupid to refuse to believe your are stupid when you demonstrate it to others so clearly. "I'm smart...not like everybody says"... they don't know. Her supporters just close their eyes and ears and ignore what they don't want to be true. Palin tries to legitimize their ignorance turning them into "Paliens".

Classless to drag Trig into her stupidity just to make a point. Where was her concern for Trig when she refused to delay traveling or other activities to deliver him. Trigs delivery was about as important to her as "Pick that one up for me will ya deery while I finish supper...and don't forget to empty the placenta stuff".

Posted by: bjobotts on August 8, 2009 at 4:29 PM | PERMALINK

Instead of a dingo, perhaps the Obama death panel euthanized your baby.

Posted by: Dale on August 8, 2009 at 9:33 PM | PERMALINK

Okay, Sarah, we get it. You're a saint because you shit out a tard. Now shut the fuck up before you embarrass the rest of us REAL Republicans.

Posted by: Jamey on August 8, 2009 at 9:38 PM | PERMALINK

Note especially how she used her handicapped son as a political prop of the worst kind--bringing his affliction and potential for cognitive development into sharp focus for a cheap and stupid political stunt. She is the worst mother I have ever seen on the national stage. And she may have an acute mental disability. I mean that whole statement was bizarrely inane. She may have a sub-80 IQ.

Posted by: Sparko on August 8, 2009 at 9:49 PM | PERMALINK

Palin: "level of productivity in society," - her quotation marks.

Is this an actual quotation (and if so, from where?) or is this just her weird style? The quotation marks would seem to imply that the phrase is taken from proposed legislation, or from something someone on the Dem. side said. But this seems unlikely. Is this deliberate misleading on her part, or just her illiteracy?

By the way, I wonder who IS covering Trig now that his mother has quit her job. Does Todd Palin have family coverage from his job?

Oh, and I should point out that those who say that Palin is incapable of learning are wrong: During the 2008 campaign, she actually commiserated with those who lack insurance, remarking that she and Todd were uninsured in the early days of their marriage, before they got "good union jobs"--showing a hilarious lack of familiarity with the Republican position that unions and their members are the Anti-Christ.

She seems to have gotten with the program.

Posted by: Nancy Irving on August 9, 2009 at 2:56 AM | PERMALINK

For a second there I thought Sarah was talking about some special solar panels in space that, when angled properly, would rein death down upon us.

Ssshheeewwww. Am I glad I was wrong.

Posted by: bassface127 on August 9, 2009 at 6:08 AM | PERMALINK




 

 

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