Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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August 10, 2009

GLADNEY THE UNINSURED ACTIVIST.... Over the last few days, a conservative activist in St. Louis named Kenneth Gladney seems to have become something of a cause celebre in far-right circles. Depending on which version of events you choose to believe, Gladney either initiated or was involved in a scuffle at a town-hall event late last week.

At least one prominent conservative blogger said Gladney was "brutally attacked" by SEIU members outside the event. After watching the video, there's ample reason for skepticism. Gladney was, in fact, pulled to the ground during the fracas, but he seemed to bounce back up quickly, and is seen walking around soon after without any obvious injuries. His attorney has argued that Gladney was beaten during the fight, but there's nothing in the clip to support that.

Gladney later went to the hospital, claiming to have sustained injuries to his "knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face."

Yesterday, about 200 conservative activists held a protest outside the SEIU office in St. Louis. Gladney was there -- bandaged and in a wheelchair -- as a featured guest. Some of the activists held signs that read, "Don't Tread on Kenny." Reader R.D. alerted me to this tidbit in the local news account of the protest:

Gladney did not address Saturday's crowd of about 200 people. His attorney, David Brown, however, read a prepared statement Gladney wrote. "A few nights ago there was an assault on my liberty, and on yours, too." Brown read. "This should never happen in this country."

Supporters cheered. Brown finished by telling the crowd that Gladney is accepting donations toward his medical expenses. Gladney told reporters he was recently laid off and has no health insurance. [emphasis added]

Wait, the conservative opponent of health care reform, fighting (literally) to defeat a plan that would bring coverage to those who lose their jobs, lost his coverage because he got laid off?

I'm not in a position to say whether Gladney sustained genuine injuries or whether he's exaggerating for 15 minutes of Fox News fame and a lucrative out-of-court settlement.

Either way, the new right-wing cause celebre needs to take up a collection to pay for his medical bills because he doesn't have health insurance. It's a fascinating sign of the times.

* Update: The Washington Independent spoke to Gladney's attorney, who said the St. Louis Post-Dispatch article is mistaken. Gladney did lose his job, the attorney said, but now has health insurance through his wife.

It's unclear, at this point, a) why Gladney initially told reporters he has no insurance; and b) why he would need to solicit contributions from far-right activists to pay his medical bills if he already has coverage.

Steve Benen 8:45 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (301)

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Comments

Is he perhaps a relative of Joe the Plumber?

Posted by: JS on August 10, 2009 at 8:45 AM | PERMALINK

So he wants others to foot his hospital bills?

Posted by: TonyB on August 10, 2009 at 8:49 AM | PERMALINK

Yes!! That's the free-market American way to do it!

We'll all take up collections, have bake sales and car washes, and maybe offer to sell extra organs to raise the money for catastrophic (or merely painful) illness and injury. No need for government intervention or rules to force hard working American insurance companies to offer affordable coverage.

I guess he's trying to make as many parallels as possible with Joe the Plumber (I wonder if he's uninsured also?).

Posted by: Daniel Kim on August 10, 2009 at 8:51 AM | PERMALINK

"Either way, the new right-wing cause celebre in opposition to health care reform needs to take up a collection to pay for his medical bills because he doesn't health care insurance."

That makes no sense.

Posted by: Jon Doe on August 10, 2009 at 8:52 AM | PERMALINK

All I can say is the conservatives sure are weird sometimes. Talk about having no self-awareness.

Posted by: Unstable Isotope on August 10, 2009 at 8:55 AM | PERMALINK

He can just get free care at the emergency room like all other uninsured people.

Posted by: Any idiot troll on August 10, 2009 at 8:56 AM | PERMALINK

Gladney's selfless committment to principle is inspiring. This clearly isn't about him. It's about a larger principle. He's putting the greater good aboove his own interests. That's the kind of individualism that made America great.

Posted by: Al on August 10, 2009 at 9:02 AM | PERMALINK

Gladney showed up at the SEIU protest in a wheelchair. Personally, I think it would have been more effective and dramatic if they had carried him in nailed to a cross.

BTW, the humor of the brave teabaggers protesting a union on a weekend day when the union hall was closed didn't escape everyone else, did it?

Posted by: Jennifer on August 10, 2009 at 9:03 AM | PERMALINK

He's putting the greater good above his own interests. That's the kind of individualism that made America great.

You have to be an American Republican to think the greater good is citizens not having health care. Nowhere else in the world are people this insane.

Posted by: Shalimar on August 10, 2009 at 9:07 AM | PERMALINK

If you have eyes and an internet connection you ARE in position to call bullshit on Gladney's injuries. Why are people so afraid to speak the truth that is sitting right in front of them? Gladney was pulled to the ground because he had a different SEIU guy on the ground trying to attack him. He is a charlatan and a fraud and you might as well christen him, "Joe the Victim". It is what it is.

Posted by: sgwhiteinfla on August 10, 2009 at 9:07 AM | PERMALINK

In principle it could be 100% consistent to want to see one's own health care expenses, or for that matter all uninsured peoples', to be covered by private charity but still reject government action to do the same. That doesn't have to be a logically inconsistent set of beliefs.

But given the profound cognitive dissonance we're used to seeing on the Right, I'm not going to assume such self-sacrificial motives on the guy's part.

Posted by: Equal Opportunity Cynic on August 10, 2009 at 9:11 AM | PERMALINK

I simply do not understand those who vote against their best interests. It is mind boggling.

Posted by: Trinity on August 10, 2009 at 9:12 AM | PERMALINK

BTW, the humor of the brave teabaggers protesting a union on a weekend day when the union hall was closed didn't escape everyone else, did it?

No, it did not. Especially since almost all of the teabaggers are jobless and could pretty much come anytime.

Posted by: Susan Johnson on August 10, 2009 at 9:14 AM | PERMALINK

They should rename their movement "Great Moments in Assholery."

Posted by: Jim B on August 10, 2009 at 9:19 AM | PERMALINK

His protests against reform make perfect sense: "I don't want any of "those people" to be better off than I am." And we know who "those people" are.

Posted by: Tigershark on August 10, 2009 at 9:26 AM | PERMALINK

You just need to watch the video.

Gladney is standing over someone (injured pastor? does anybody know?) in a threatening manner. He gets pulled off, then he argues with someone, bumps into someone else, trips on his own feet, falls to his ass, then gets right back up and continues flailing around shouting.

At some point, some clever teabagger, maybe Gladney himself, decided to make Gladney the victim and a new script was quickly written in order to:

a) deflect criticism away from obvious rightwing hooliganism.

b) so confusion and bullshit about what really happened in spite of glaring evidence.

c) crank up the outrage machinery they've so perfected to further drown out legitimate discussion of healthcare.

These are their methods - the only tactics they know. Nobody sane is going to fall for it, yet on certain levels they succeed because here we are on Monday morning talking about this asshole instead of what needs to be done for universal healthcare.

Posted by: henry lewis on August 10, 2009 at 9:26 AM | PERMALINK

Boy-o-boy, did you-all get punked!

The whole Gladney thing was impromptu street theater, scripted by Jon Stewart's cadre of writers. (Footage tonight on the Daily Show.)

How do I know? I was in the ER when Gladney came in. Asked to produce his insurance card, he accidently offered his Screen Actors Guild card. . .

Posted by: DAY on August 10, 2009 at 9:34 AM | PERMALINK

This is fairly common, actually. Many of the righties are less then prosperous themselves but continue nevertheless to campaign for insurance industry profits. What dupes!

I remember a conversation on a call-in show several years ago in which a rightie mentioned that his uncle had delayed seeing a doctor because the uncle had no insurance, and therefore developed advanced prostate cancer and died. The rightie brought up this point as an example of how the system should work - those who can’t afford insurance should simply accept the consequences. Amazing!

This is why I maintain that the Republican health care plan was originally developed by Plato in 360 B.C. :

“When a carpenter is ill he asks the physician for a rough and ready cure; an emetic or a purge or a cautery or the knife, --these are his remedies. And if some one prescribes for him a course of dietetics, and tells him that he must swathe and swaddle his head, and all that sort of thing, he replies at once that he has no time to be ill, and that he sees no good in a life which is spent in nursing his disease to the neglect of his customary employment; and therefore bidding good-bye to this sort of physician, he resumes his ordinary habits, and either gets well and lives and does his business, or, if his constitution falls, he dies and has no more trouble. “
(The Republic, Book III)

Posted by: Virginia on August 10, 2009 at 9:42 AM | PERMALINK

DAY--
Oh, I wish I could believe you, but the "You assaulted him! You're going to jail!" guy was clearly not up to The Daily Show's standards. Just cheesy GOP street theater.

Posted by: calling all toasters on August 10, 2009 at 9:46 AM | PERMALINK

The solution to 47 million uninsured is for Obama's thugs to stop beating them up.

No beatings, no problems with the system, which otherwise works just fine.

Posted by: Mlke K on August 10, 2009 at 9:48 AM | PERMALINK

If you look closely, you can see one of the SEIU members carve a "B" on his face.

Posted by: anonymoose on August 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM | PERMALINK

The solution to 47 million uninsured is for Obama's thugs to stop beating them up.

No beatings, no problems with the system, which otherwise works just fine.

Welcome, Mr. Colbert!

Posted by: Fugitive Pope on August 10, 2009 at 10:14 AM | PERMALINK

Ummm. He isn't a "conservative activist." He kept reiterating OVER AND OVER again to his interviewer he was just there to sell buttons (unrelated to healthcare) because he doesn't have a job and he needs the money. Then he got beat up. Now he's being portrayed as a hero by one side, and a villain by the other. Stop being such sheeple.

Posted by: David123 on August 10, 2009 at 10:16 AM | PERMALINK

IT'S JOE THE DUMBER! POOR GOP, CAN'T BUY A BREAK BUT GOD KNOWS THEY'VE BEEN TRYING.

Posted by: DR on August 10, 2009 at 10:17 AM | PERMALINK

Uninsured Gladney agitating against health care reform is reminiscent of those unemployed guys in Ohio who were strong supporters of George Bush against John Kerry. It did not matter to them that they were out of work and on the dole, or that they did not have health insurance, or that their brothers or brothers-in-law were in combat in Iraq: What really mattered to them was that George Bush believed in god, George Bush opposed gay marriages and abortions, and George Bush supported their right to own guns.

Fucking idiots.

Posted by: Doran on August 10, 2009 at 10:18 AM | PERMALINK

Payback is a b*tch!

Posted by: mary b on August 10, 2009 at 10:19 AM | PERMALINK

Possibly he can the the old,rich republicans in the Senate who are campaigning against expanding health care insurance for the unemployed to play the bills for him. As for him, he deserves what he gets.

Posted by: grf67 on August 10, 2009 at 10:20 AM | PERMALINK

That's because they know they out of a job with or without John Kerry. Empty promises fail to impress (see Barack Obama).

Posted by: Jondoe on August 10, 2009 at 10:20 AM | PERMALINK

Whatever happened to personal responsibility the wingnuts preach? He should pay his own damn medical bills. He should have saved enough money while he did have a job, that if he lost his, he would have money to pay for Cobra and his rent.

Is the guy collecting unemployment compensation? Damn socialist wants everything paid for by others! Guy should get a job!

Posted by: gttim on August 10, 2009 at 10:21 AM | PERMALINK

Can y'all post his address so I can send an "air" dollar? LOL

Posted by: Perry on August 10, 2009 at 10:23 AM | PERMALINK

If Mr. Gladney showed up in a wheelchair (even if it was sell buttons), then he was first, obviously faking it for theatrics and second, was asking for trouble.

I do require a wheelchair from time to time so people like him I have no respect for.

I hope the hospital turned him away since he had no insurance, but we luckily have a compassionate society at heart and probably took care of him.

Then he should be asked, "who paid for your healthcare at the hospital today?" and the poor man would think it had been given to him for free.

Idiots have taken over the radical wing of the Republican Party.

Posted by: Marcia on August 10, 2009 at 10:25 AM | PERMALINK

Never seen so much NEGATIVE DRAMA in my over 60 yrs. of life. Truly so shame in Gladney's game.

Posted by: mojo3 on August 10, 2009 at 10:27 AM | PERMALINK

This Gladney guy is like one of those crazy women that hits themselves and then calls the police and says her boyfriend did it. He is a perfect symbol for republicans shooting themselves in the foot over healthcare reform...sure it would benefit them, but they can't have that now, can they, cause it would be good for democrats too.

Posted by: Patrick on August 10, 2009 at 10:27 AM | PERMALINK

I think progressives should show that they have higher moral value by donating to this skunk. This is a typical example of these ideologus voting and fithing against their own interests.

Posted by: TheDonald on August 10, 2009 at 10:28 AM | PERMALINK

Correction: "No SHAME in Gladney's Game!"

Posted by: mojo3 on August 10, 2009 at 10:29 AM | PERMALINK

God is indeed an Obama fan!

Posted by: Sunny soleil on August 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM | PERMALINK

No, he's Kenneth the Uninsured Patient.

Posted by: Christi Hogin on August 10, 2009 at 10:32 AM | PERMALINK

This story abounds with more irony than you can imagine. In St. Louis, the 4th most segregated city in America, where the local newspaper's website abounds with racist comments every day, where a whole county exploded with growth (and Republicans) just because people were fleeing minorities, and where teabag protests always have some sort of racial undertone, the new martyr for the movement is a black guy. Absolutely classic.

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 10:32 AM | PERMALINK

Its hilarious to note that common folks who don't even have basic health insurance are opposing it for political reasons. If this fail these same folks will turn around and criticize Obama how bad things are, lack of jobs, and inability to pay health bills.

People please wake up, and stop playing in insurance lobbyists hands.

Most people consider the health insurance they have as health coverage, its so wrong, once the fell ill or have serious health problem, it will be of no use, max limits, preexisting conditions and other such BS will kick in, forcing them to file for bankruptcies.

Sill have time to wake up, let's put away patrician thinking and get this done for society and country.

Posted by: NeedHealthReform on August 10, 2009 at 10:32 AM | PERMALINK

We have to establish a "Moron's Mean Test". If you have limited intelligence yet insist on portraying yourself as an involved party in the democratic process and THEN NEED INSURANCE for a medical emergency and can't afford it because you lost your job, then you have qualified for the Moron's Mean Test. The government will not pay your bill but you have the permission of all Americans to ask Glen Beck and friends to pay for your care!

Posted by: Paine from the Left on August 10, 2009 at 10:32 AM | PERMALINK

Wait he has not health insurance and now he is asking for "taxpayers" to pay for his medical bills?

Isn't that socialism, or at least some form of socialism?


Posted by: Joe on August 10, 2009 at 10:32 AM | PERMALINK

There is NOTHING in the article nor video clip showing a wheel chair, and there is NOTHING in his own responses during interviews to suggest he is a "conservative activist." On the contrary, he kept repeating to persistent questioning that he was a buttons peddler looking for a protest who got MISTAKEN for a "conservative active"; and he just happens not to insured. All those things, according to the hate-filled Leftists on this thread, make him deserving of getting beat up, and a HUGE PASS to the LEFTWING ACTIVISTS who actually beat him up. My, how COMPASSIONATE the Left has become.

Posted by: David123 on August 10, 2009 at 10:34 AM | PERMALINK

Will he raise enough funds to remove the backwards B carved into his cheek? Another conservative embrace of a false flag to rile themselves for the cause.

Posted by: timmmahhhh on August 10, 2009 at 10:34 AM | PERMALINK

Asking for private donations isn't asking the "tax payers" for money. Private donations is volunatry, taxes are coerced. See the diff, brainiac?

Posted by: David123 on August 10, 2009 at 10:37 AM | PERMALINK

Over the weekend the network news reports featured comments from 2 different astroturf 'protesters,' both of them weighing 300 to 400 pounds. These morbidly obese people are courting impending medical disaster, yet I have to wonder what their private insurers will do when they have the inevitable medical catastrophe resulting from such a dangerous physical condition. They'll get a very rude awakening.

Posted by: Varecia on August 10, 2009 at 10:39 AM | PERMALINK

I wonder how much pushing HE did before somebody stopped him. He is another 'sheep' who would rather shoot himself in the foot than help himself. If we had some people in Florida in 2000 to do the samr thing we may not have had the nightmare of the last administration! He is typical of those who have no shame to take while never offering to give.

Posted by: nellieh on August 10, 2009 at 10:39 AM | PERMALINK

Mr. Gladney did an interview on fauxnews where he states that he was, "at the rally to make a few bucks selling merchandise" and that, "he does not share the political views of those at the rally"
What about the SEIU fellow asking, "what kind of n***er is you?" Is that statement worthy or reporting? What if the other side were to make such a statement?

Posted by: Jim on August 10, 2009 at 10:41 AM | PERMALINK

This guy was giving tv interviews on Friday spry as could be; then on Saturday he's wheeled out in a wheelchair! A true wingnut!

Posted by: st. louis citizen on August 10, 2009 at 10:42 AM | PERMALINK

David123 - Mr. Gladney identified himself as "politically conservative" in local news reports, and almost immediately had representation by a conservative lawyer and was issuing a statement about his "liberty." If he was just a street peddler, then boy, the right is even dumber than I thought. Who will be their next martyr - the guys selling bootleg t-shirts outside Cardinal games?

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 10:43 AM | PERMALINK

P,S Now that is what I would call an ambulance chaser! Was he waiting in the ER or did the organizers seek him out?

Posted by: nellieh on August 10, 2009 at 10:45 AM | PERMALINK

Is it Kenneth E. Gladney born Sept 1970
Or is it Kenneth L. Gladney born July 1960
There are two in St. Louis.
I couldn't find property ownership in St. Louis County or St.Louis city by Kenneth Gladney.
Must live with his mom.

Kenneth E. Glaney got in trouble below:

Date Filed: 02/06/2008
Location: City of St. Louis Case Type: Criminal/Infract.- see Charges
Disposition: Guilty Plea Date of Disposition: 07/29/2008
Judge At Disposition: BRYANT, PAULA PERKINS

Posted by: bartolo on August 10, 2009 at 10:48 AM | PERMALINK

So no condemnation against the Union members for assaulting him. Just for the guy because he wasn't insured. Welcome to the upside down world of Liberalism.

Posted by: Jondoe on August 10, 2009 at 10:49 AM | PERMALINK

Fortunately this time the "faker" is transparent for all those who take time to watch the films of the incident. Also the mind boggling irony of trying to sabotage reform when you are personally going to benefit from it is surreal. These folks have invested in a kind of cult following and can't seem to pull back no matter what the evidence to counter what they have been told. The rest of us who are not so afflicted need to band together and get real reform passed. Its not the puppets but the puppet masters that we need to prevail against. All those who stand to profit from maintaining the status quo against the general welfare of their countrymen are un-american in my book and guilty of greed.

Posted by: Catherine on August 10, 2009 at 10:51 AM | PERMALINK

He may not be a just candidate for the conservative cause, but he certainly is a prime example of the need for tort reform.

Posted by: nel on August 10, 2009 at 10:55 AM | PERMALINK

I couldn't find property ownership in St. Louis County or St.Louis city by Kenneth Gladney.
Must live with his mom.

Or maybe he rents. Ever met anyone who does?

Posted by: Susan Johnson on August 10, 2009 at 10:57 AM | PERMALINK

So Gladney, in the age of cell-phone cameras, thinks he can fake multiple injuries for profit? This will backfire when he goes to jail for fraud... and will also hurt his side's cause by once again making them look stupid.

Posted by: StevenX on August 10, 2009 at 10:58 AM | PERMALINK

Hey 'tards. I'm young and uninsured, and I don't support your government health care because I know it would bankrupt our country and lower the quality of care. Consider that there may be individuals out there who think about the welfare of their country too, not just themselves.

Posted by: Buddy on August 10, 2009 at 11:07 AM | PERMALINK

Thanks for the memories

Posted by anonymoose @ 10:11:

If you look closely, you can see one of the SEIU members carve a "B" on his face.

I wonder what kind of health insurance that she-loon had? Probably none too:

Ashley Todd told police she didn't seek medical attention, but instead went to a friend's apartment nearby and called police about 45 minutes later.

Posted by: koreyel on August 10, 2009 at 11:12 AM | PERMALINK

just more of the same from the GOP: get your voters to act out of emotion, rather than out of rational intelligence. It's how they've been getting voters to vote against their own interests for 40 years and more.

This is the same thing. The stupid is beyond pain at this point. The GOP and its acolytes have reached some area beyond stupid.

Posted by: LL on August 10, 2009 at 11:14 AM | PERMALINK

Didn't the same thing happen to Horst Wessel ?

Another martyr

At least Horst had a song written about him

Posted by: MSierra, SF on August 10, 2009 at 11:16 AM | PERMALINK

Buddy - Those of us who want health care reform ARE thinking about our country. It's only the short-sighted types like you who can't follow your "do nothing" position through to its logical conclusion. Having millions of sick and uninsured citizens is a national problem. There are consequences if we do nothing.

Our current for-profit health care system DEMANDS that some people be expendable. You guys just won't admit that you're callous enough to go along with this, and that you're ok with your fellow Americans suffering and dying in the streets.

Tell me... will you be thinking about your country when, god forbid, you wind up in the emergency room without insurance? Will your patriotism cover the bill, or will it come out of everyone else's pocket in the form of higher premiums?

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 11:21 AM | PERMALINK

Ummm. He isn't a "conservative activist."

When you turn up at a conservative rally in a wheelchair after suffering minor injuries in a scuffle, you have now become a "conservative activist."

Posted by: Mnemosyne on August 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM | PERMALINK

The new GOP health reform plan:

BEGGING!!!!

Posted by: Jimbo on August 10, 2009 at 11:23 AM | PERMALINK

Al said,

"Gladney's selfless committment to principle is inspiring. This clearly isn't about him. It's about a larger principle. He's putting the greater good aboove his own interests. That's the kind of individualism that made America great."

If committment to principle means not having health insurance, I have to ask this: I know absolutely nothing about Gladney's personal life. But what if he has a family, with young children, and he becomes gravely ill while he has no health insurance? What if his child, if he has one, becomes gravely ill while he has no health insurance? Even if he has no immediate family, what about his friends and family who dearly love him, if he has no health insurance and becomes gravely ill?

Ok, if that's what "committment to principles" means, I guess that's what he's free to committ to.

Posted by: Frank on August 10, 2009 at 11:25 AM | PERMALINK

I'm young and uninsured, and I don't support your government health care because I know it would bankrupt our country and lower the quality of care.

So you'd rather bankrupt businesses and individuals and lower the quality of care to put more money in insurance executives' pockets?

Posted by: Mnemosyne on August 10, 2009 at 11:26 AM | PERMALINK

Mike K says:

"The solution to 47 million uninsured is for Obama's thugs to stop beating them up.

No beatings, no problems with the system, which otherwise works just fine."

Everything does not "work(s) just fine."

The 47 million uninsured is not the only problem. More and more are becoming uninsured when they lose their jobs. People lose their coverage and/or cannot get certain procedures because of pre-existing condition. I cannot change my coverage because of this....therefore, I have to stick with coverage from Illinois, although I live in Missouri....and I can only see doctors 25, 30 miles away from me, but I live very, very close to Barnes Hospital, here in St. Louis. Further, my coverage doesn't pay for any prescription medication....good thing I haven't needed much in the past, but what if I get very sick as I grow older?
Things are not working just fine when over 60% of all personal bankruptcies in this country are due to the inability to pay medical bills.

And, the irony of Mike K's "point"....Gafney has no insurance, so he has to rely on others to bail him out.

Posted by: Frank on August 10, 2009 at 11:36 AM | PERMALINK

This was on Limbaugh's show - "a black conservative was attacked by SEIU in St. Louis". Unfortunately, our tax dollars are at work supporting this fool and his lies being broadcast to our troops in Europe every week day.

Posted by: Foreigner on August 10, 2009 at 11:37 AM | PERMALINK

Don't misunderestimate the intelligence of the American sheeple. Ever.

Posted by: Sarah Barracuda on August 10, 2009 at 11:38 AM | PERMALINK

Ah, now in Buddy, we have a sterling example of the "it can't happen to me" syndrome that invades these protesters' narrow little minds.

Buddy is young and healthy, so he thinks he'll never be not-young or not-healthy. Buddy's never been turned down for a preexisting condition, so he won't believe it can happen to him. Buddy doesn't know anyone who's got insurance but was denied coverage or had their policy dropped when they were diagnosed with an expensive illness, so he denies that this happens on a regular basis. Buddy is just starting out on his little life's journey and is completely unaware of the fact that half of all bankruptcies are medically related -- including people who have insurance. Buddy doesn't own a home, so he doesn't have a home to lose to medical bills after a lifetime of hard work and playing by the rules.

Buddy is in for a rude awakening. Buddy also needs to turn off Fox and do a little research before mindlessly repeating the statements "bankrupt the country" and "lower the quality of care." There are some things that careless youth doesn't excuse. Drooling ignorance is one of them.

Posted by: shortstop on August 10, 2009 at 11:41 AM | PERMALINK

Hey, Buddy. Maybe instead of helping raise public money for this guy's cause, and holding him up as an example, you should be telling him to quit expecting other people to pay his bills and just go get another damned job.

To do anything else makes you a hypocrite.

Posted by: toofunny on August 10, 2009 at 11:42 AM | PERMALINK

The answer to the problem and discord becomes clear: If you are a democrat or independant, you get health care reform including public option and (hopefully someday) eventual single payer. If you are republican you must keep the health care insurance you already have and, if you are uninsured, you get your medical bills paid by begging from other republicans. Medicare benificiaries or anyone on social security are automatically counted as democrats because they are obviously socialists.

Posted by: Jeff on August 10, 2009 at 11:42 AM | PERMALINK

A review of the video reveals that Gladney has exaggerated the "beating," and his injuries. People on the Left are generally MORE compassionate when it comes to individuals who are injured, disabled, etc. But Gladney's lawyer is going to have a problem at trial, given the video. Since Gladney is now a self-styled freedom fighter, I hope he will refuse any government ("Socialist") aid as a matter of principle. In fact, every opponent of health insurance reform who loses their health insurance when they lose their job and is subsequently ill or injured, should follow Gladney's lead in this regard.

Posted by: R.P. on August 10, 2009 at 11:46 AM | PERMALINK

Even worse, Buddy will eventually be uninsurable due to diabetes and other health issues, since without insurance, he won't be able to work out or play any sports - because an injury would leave him without money for rent or food.

Posted by: royalblue_tom on August 10, 2009 at 11:50 AM | PERMALINK

"BTW, the humor of the brave teabaggers protesting a union on a weekend day when the union hall was closed didn't escape everyone else, did it?"
Posted by: Jennifer on August 10, 2009 at 9:03 AM

Jennifer , please allow me to correct you: "Teabaggers" are almost all Democrats, whereas the folks who are protesting Obama's new taxes are made up of Democrats and Republicans and Libertarians, and are called "Tea Party Protestors".

Remember that! "Teabagging" is a term created by our homosexual friends to describe one of their deviant acts, and the use of the term to denote Tea Party Protestors is either a weak attempt by you to call these tax protestors "Gay" (showing homophobia on your part) or, it shows your lack of knowledge about current events.

To demonstrate, I will use the term in its correct form:

Anderson Cooper is a Teabagger.

There, even YOUR weak little liberal mind can grasp that!

Thank you.

Posted by: SpaceRat on August 10, 2009 at 11:52 AM | PERMALINK

Kenneth Gladney -- Con Artist.

He will not file a lawsuit against the people who "injured" him because he was not seriously injured. He will lose.

But, he will solicit "donations" from gullible wingnuts for his "medical care," that will no doubt far exceed the cost of his alleged care.

And, he will not give that money back or refuse it. No sir.

This is his gravy train.

Posted by: Hesiod on August 10, 2009 at 11:54 AM | PERMALINK

I have a horrible feeling that soon enough the gun owners among us will be glad we invested in them.

Posted by: Bob on August 10, 2009 at 11:56 AM | PERMALINK

what he is saying is if YOU want to help him fine. but you should not be mandated by goverment to help him if you want to or not.

Posted by: john on August 10, 2009 at 11:56 AM | PERMALINK

Jondoe says,
"So no condemnation against the Union members for assaulting him. Just for the guy because he wasn't insured. Welcome to the upside down world of Liberalism."

I condemn the violence on both sides, but I haven't passed judgement, yet, on who started it. If you watch that video very closely, at the very beginning of it, you will see a guy with a blue SEIU shirt and tan pants on the ground. This is BEFORE Gladney gets pulled down.

I'm still waiting for the police report.

Posted by: Frank on August 10, 2009 at 12:02 PM | PERMALINK

[We] are called "Tea Party Protestors". -SpaceRat

No, you're teabaggers, a term attached to the movement by it's founders, I might add. You're nothing more than a silly fringe group devoid of all historical knowledge; a gaggle of blog trolls who have taken the tradition of disrupting online conversation into the public arena.

But please, don't let the facts stop you from hitting the fainting couch with the back of your hand on your forehead. Tell me, are all the teabaggers such drama queens?

Posted by: doubtful on August 10, 2009 at 12:03 PM | PERMALINK

> Can y'all post his address so I can send an "air" dollar?

How 'bout his FAX number? I'd gladly send a $20.

LK

Posted by: Leon Kowalski on August 10, 2009 at 12:03 PM | PERMALINK

Lotta hate going all directions, there, SpaceRat. Deep breaths, buddy, deep breaths.

If Anderson Cooper switched his party affiliation to Republican, would he automatically become hetersexual? By your conflation, yep!

Posted by: ezdeb on August 10, 2009 at 12:08 PM | PERMALINK

royalblue_tom says,

"Anderson Cooper is a Teabagger.

There, even YOUR weak little liberal mind can grasp that!"

It is obvious that Mr. Tom is a big fan of Rush Limbaugh because Limbaugh called Anderson Cooper a "teabagger" some time ago.

So, Mr. Tom,

Thank you.

Posted by: Frank on August 10, 2009 at 12:08 PM | PERMALINK

D'oh! And I even previewed my post! That's heterosexual, of course. Or heyterosexshul, if you're a mouth breathing space rat.

Posted by: ezdeb on August 10, 2009 at 12:10 PM | PERMALINK

Listen, It's sure the judge will look at his walk around, an see he was not seriousely injured. He done, before he starts. Plus, if he's Republican, asking for Medical Donations, why don't the President point him out as a good example why it cost americans triple to go to the emergency R.,why he needs Ins. to save the americans money! What a hoot!

Posted by: Alberta Treadway on August 10, 2009 at 12:12 PM | PERMALINK

"Jennifer , please allow me to correct you: "Teabaggers" are almost all Democrats, whereas the folks who are protesting Obama's new taxes are made up of Democrats and Republicans and Libertarians, and are called "Tea Party Protestors".

Remember that! "Teabagging" is a term created by our homosexual friends to describe one of their deviant acts, and the use of the term to denote Tea Party Protestors is either a weak attempt by you to call these tax protestors "Gay" (showing homophobia on your part) or, it shows your lack of knowledge about current events."


While we are on this subject -- it's "DemocratIC party," not "Democrat" party.

Posted by: Hesiod on August 10, 2009 at 12:12 PM | PERMALINK

Frank, the name shows under the comment. SpaceRat made the comment you are referring to.

Posted by: royalblue_tom on August 10, 2009 at 12:13 PM | PERMALINK

John, what you say should be applied to the people on all forms of government health care right now. Medicare is what drove the cost of healthcare up. Get rid of it. Make charity come from people who want to donate.....not stolen from our paychecks. Everyone gets government healthcare or no one gets government health care...BUT DON'T MAKE ME PAY FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO HAVE IT, WHEN I CAN'T AFFORD IT FOR MYSELF.

Posted by: Sarah on August 10, 2009 at 12:16 PM | PERMALINK

what he is saying is if YOU want to help him fine. but you should not be mandated by goverment to help him if you want to or not.

No, John. What he is saying is if you want to help him fine. If you don't want to help him, too bad, you're going to anyway. What part of WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR THE UNINSURED do you folks not understand?!

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 12:17 PM | PERMALINK

Republicans have a new hero: Fraudney King.

Posted by: Roger Ailes on August 10, 2009 at 12:20 PM | PERMALINK

Sad, so many of you went to the ACORN school of stupidity, and resort to name calling, vulgarities, and obscenities. If you took half as much time thinking about an issue and having compassion for your fellow man who is injured versus spewing hate you would "Get It"!

Posted by: Randy on August 10, 2009 at 12:23 PM | PERMALINK

Is is so hard to understand that some people would rather rely on genuinely voluntary cooperation, instead of using government force, whenever they are in need? Statists seem to think that only "the rich" object to the use of force to redistribute wealth, but many not-so-rich simply do not want to be the beneficiaries of ill-gotten loot, for many valid reasons.

Posted by: terrymac on August 10, 2009 at 12:25 PM | PERMALINK

Man, the US has taken a thousand steps backward, back to the days of the unions and mafia bullying and intimidation. Thanks to the current DNC who have been hijacked by socialists and the current administration. Junk with union members being paid by the democrats to cause trouble and seriously injure American citizens that do not believe like they do is so barbarian and old school. Very, very sad that the democrats are trying to drag the US back into the dark ages.

Posted by: Wes on August 10, 2009 at 12:28 PM | PERMALINK

resort to name calling, vulgarities, and obscenities

This is one of the things I never get about the right. They think dropping eff bombs is worse than fucking over their fellow citizens. It says a lot about their priorities and their love of appearances over actions, and they never seem to get that they're being killed with the facts while also being sworn at -- it's not an either-or equation.

They also use their puffed-up offense at being cussed at as an attempt not to engage on the subject when they're being bested in argument. One of our favorite unbright-but-extra-arrogant-to-make-up-for-it trolls, Mike K, does this daily. Asked to respond to a specific set of facts, he instead cries piteously about having been exposed to strong language. Weak. Very weak, and fools no one except himself.

Posted by: shortstop on August 10, 2009 at 12:30 PM | PERMALINK

I'm feeling bad for royalblue_tom.

If he thinks that tea-bagging is only for the homosexuals in the crowd, then he's missing out.

You should try kissing your girl-friend behind the knee or on the back of her neck, and see where things go from there.

It's a big world out here, and there are a lot of wild and wonderful things royalblue_tom might get to experience if he could step out of his tent for awhile.

Posted by: matt on August 10, 2009 at 12:30 PM | PERMALINK

Do we all remember the wingnuttery during the campaign of the gal who carved an O on her face and said she had been attacked by an Obama supporter?
These people are really sick, but in the head.

Posted by: JS on August 10, 2009 at 12:31 PM | PERMALINK

I'm feeling bad for royalblue_tom. -matt

I am, too, but because people keep mistaking homophobic comments of SpaceRat for his, though.

Posted by: doubtful on August 10, 2009 at 12:34 PM | PERMALINK

Matt,

The name goes below the comment. You are referring to what SpaceRat wrote. As I mentionwed to Frank earlier in the thread. Please pay attention. You are showing all the stupidity of a wingnut.

royalblue_tom.

Posted by: royalblue_tom on August 10, 2009 at 12:34 PM | PERMALINK

Will no one stop the perverted GOP from debauching its children?

Posted by: shortstop on August 10, 2009 at 12:37 PM | PERMALINK

Steve, I love your commenters. Seriously. My Monday sucked - until I started reading. I started reading because I needed to catch up after PSFR yesterday, but the comments have left my sides aching from laughter. (Also known as 'the best medicine'.)

Win!

Posted by: Lia on August 10, 2009 at 12:38 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, know it is hard for shortstop to understand, but no one takes the people who "resort to name calling, vulgarities, and obscenities" seriously.

It is seen as just a lot of ugly fluff because someone doesn't know how to use the English language properly and more importantly stay in control of their anger problems.

Since your post proved the point shortstop maybe you could try meditating for a while and do some introspection about yourself and your post.

Best wishes in "coming clean and getting it!"

Posted by: Randy on August 10, 2009 at 12:39 PM | PERMALINK

Given that the wheelchair stunt was bull, one wonders if Gladney is lying about his job situation as well.

Posted by: Richard on August 10, 2009 at 12:41 PM | PERMALINK

someone doesn't know how to use the English language properly

Mmmmm, irony smells best when cooked over an open fire.

Given that the wheelchair stunt was bull, one wonders if Gladney is lying about his job situation as well.

Feh. One doesn't care. He's just another easily led, opportunistic sneak. There's no shortage of those around -- if it weren't he, it would be someone else being used by the right.

Posted by: shortstop on August 10, 2009 at 12:44 PM | PERMALINK

Lia, if you need another good laugh, consider these delusional gems from the RealClearPolitics forum:

"ken gladney is fighting for our freedom right here at home while soldiers do so overseas."

"Mr. Obama and his henchmen unsheathed the sword of the state to shed the blood of the citizen and Mr. Gladney aches today as a result of it."

"Mr. Breitbart is correct, We Are Ken Gladney."

YIKES.

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 12:47 PM | PERMALINK

Medicare is what drove the cost of healthcare up.
Oh Sarah Sarah Sarah - how did you become so wrong?

Private corporations are what has driven up the cost of Medicare - although in an honest debate, you would be told that not all of the increase was from fraud. And you'd find out that Medicare has the best efficiency in using money to deliver care - of Medicare funds, more than 95% go directly to paying(greedy insurance companies) for medical activity. Those same insurance companies only use 80% for delivering care.

And those old folks using Medicare and MedicAid now?
Um, yeah - most of them paid into it during their working years, with the understanding that it would be there when they got old. Why do you want their healthcare stolen from them after they've already paid for it??

I might add - if you can't afford healthcare, you should see if you qualify for Medicare. If you do, then you should use it, especially if you're contributing to it out of your pay.
You'll be much better off visiting a doctor if you have a health problem, than spending hours in an Emergency waiting room crowded with sick people, some of whom are contagious. Really, it's the same reason that everyone is better off using the emergency room only when absolutely necessary - and why we should make sure that everyone has access to primary care in the first place.

Posted by: kenga on August 10, 2009 at 12:51 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, know it is hard for shortstop to understand, but no one takes the people who "resort to name calling, vulgarities, and obscenities" seriously.

Tell it to Lenny Bruce, jackass.

Posted by: kenga on August 10, 2009 at 12:54 PM | PERMALINK

Pretty hilarious how many times I've read something along the lines that a fellow must be getting "free" healthcare despite having no insurance. It's not the case.

When you go to the emergency room, you do get healthcare; that's mandated. However, it isn't "free" by any stretch; you are BILLED for it. If you get shipped off to the hospital either by foot or ambulance, you get BILLED for it. If you wind up with a 10,000 or 100,000 bill, it is YOURS, not the government's.

I suppose you can refuse to pay, like you can refuse to pay any other bill you incur. However, that refusal, like any other refusal-to-pay, will -- not maybe: WILL -- negatively impact your credit rating, which motivates you to pay.

Those of you on the Left, who are USED to being on the government dole, don't understand this, because someone else has ALWAYS paid your freight, coughed up the cash for your kid to go to college, and taken care of your non-productive self because you, the government drone, are completely helpless to compete in an open society.

Thing is, I don't care, really. It would just be nice if you'd close your Olbermaniac mouth and only speak when a thought of your own crosses your mind. It would be the cause of the Sound of Silence, to be sure, but I could live with that. The cacaphony of Obamaniacal clones is so loud we can't hear the music.

Posted by: TJ on August 10, 2009 at 1:04 PM | PERMALINK

TJ, yours is possibly the dumbest post ever made here.

We on the left are the ones who keep trying to explain to the Creamed Corn Mafia the idiocy of "Don't change the system; the uninsured can just go to the ER!" Even your beloved W tried this line. Perhaps he was stupid enough to really believe it -- the guy wasn't famed for doing his homework.

It's the left that keeps explaining to the fingers-in-ears right that:

1) the ER still presents you with a bill
2) the bill is considerably higher than visiting a doctor's office would be
3) the ER bill an uninsured person receives is considerably higher than the discounted bill an insurance company receives for the same services
4) if you can't pay this bill, you will ruin your credit rating, because the hospital will go as far as legally possible to recover it
5) the only way the care is free is if the patient is on Medicaid, which means he/she can't work or accumulate any savings -- you must be the poorest of the poor to qualify for free care, and
6) (and this is a big one, TJ) when the bill doesn't get paid after all that, WE ALL PAY FOR IT THROUGH HIGHER HEALTHCARE COSTS ACROSS THE SPECTRUM.

We get it, TJ. Liberals are the ones who explain daily to your intellectually hapless buddies why the ER is not a solution for the uninsured. You waltz in here, unfamiliar with the community and the type of banter that is common here, and you're not even bright enough to figure out that the "free ER care" posts here are people mocking and parodying the anti-reform fools.

Posted by: shortstop on August 10, 2009 at 1:18 PM | PERMALINK

[if you want to make a point, make the point and cite the article. do not paste article length comments -- mod.]

Posted by: TJ on August 10, 2009 at 1:20 PM | PERMALINK

TJ - The fact that you cannot see the irony in cutting and pasting someone else's thoughts, and then challenging people to think for themselves is just incredible.

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 1:23 PM | PERMALINK

So in order to convince him that their way is the best way to keep him healthy, they put him in the hospital. Makes sense, I guess.

Posted by: Jim Treacher on August 10, 2009 at 1:25 PM | PERMALINK

"of Medicare funds, more than 95% go directly to paying(greedy insurance companies) for medical activity. Those same insurance companies only use 80% for delivering care.
"

That is why Medicare has driven the cost up. The government pays it without questions. The Government should have made it nonprofit. Cost reimbursed = actual cost insurance companies paid...otherwise the taxpayers are just subsidizing the insurance companies. Get insurance companies out of the picture.

"Um, yeah - most of them paid into it during their working years, with the understanding that it would be there when they got old. Why do you want their healthcare stolen from them after they've already paid for it??"

It is not my fault the government took the money and spent it. Either way it's gone. Too bad....now you want to take it from my paycheck, even though I'll never get any benefit....How is a wrong on top of a wrong going to make things better? Their "mis"understanding is not my problem.

Posted by: Sarah on August 10, 2009 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINK

Typical Leftist Propaganda Not only do you racists mock Kenneth's fragile condition after the beating he endured from Obama-supporting SEIU thugs, you also hurl sexual slurs at him. To these clods, calling a black man n*gger and then beating him is funny.
How Classy.

And, of course, you are repeating the lie that Kenneth is without insurance. http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/08/figures-leftists-hurl-racist-insults-at.html#203650

How Pathetic. You losers probably think that smashing women in the face is funny, too.

Posted by: Ripped on August 10, 2009 at 1:34 PM | PERMALINK

I am trying hard not to laugh but the situation is totally absurd.

It's like an older person on Medicare saying that he doesn't want the government interfering with his health care.

Posted by: Karen on August 10, 2009 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK

Sorry Kenneth Gladney.

I've looked at your records and I noticed that you have a PRE-EXISTING CONDITION and you're a person who likes to rile-up people and get into fights.

I can't contribute to your medical expenses. Being disabled, I have enough of my own medical expenses. Guess you're on your own.

Oh, say Hi to your Republican Buddies who are Bought Out.

Tom

Posted by: Tom Wieliczka on August 10, 2009 at 1:38 PM | PERMALINK

You losers probably think that smashing women in the face is funny, too. -Ripped

Smashing, no, but a good backwards B carving is a good time to be had for all.

Posted by: doubtful on August 10, 2009 at 1:39 PM | PERMALINK

I get it, shortstop. Your self-impression of intellectual superiority shines so bright in your mirror I can easily see where you are coming from in your groupthink-imposed darkness.

You wouldn't, somehow, refute the accuracy of my statement, perhaps? No, didn't think so.

Say, if you want to reform healthcare COSTS, I'm all for it. But STOP suggesting the government can do it cheaper. Goverment runs on MY money. (I understand, as a non-taxpayer, your comprehension of "my money" escapes you, but still, it is MY money, not the US Government's.)

True reform is a piece of cake: Tort reform. It's a fact -- feel free to research it for yourself; that way you won't feel forced to tell me my info comes from a birther website or some such thing -- that over 80% of the tests run and operations performed by doctors for patients in the last 5% of their lifespan (and everyone agrees most total individual healthcare is expended in the last year of life) is solely done for the necessity of avoiding catastophic tort costs. In other words, Doc does his thing so he doesn't get sued.

I don't know where malpractice costs are right now, but 20 years ago a friend of mine who was (and is) a GP in his own clinic was paying just shy of $7000 per month in malpractice premiums.

Charles Krauthaumer (sp) had a nice op-ed on the subject the other day; you might want to read it.

What the Left keeps hammering and yammering about is how it is somehow immoral to not provide healthcare to people. That, in short, is a STUPID point of view; I'm sorry if I can't put it nicely. (I could say "not well thought out", but unfortunately, the Left thinks and thinks and thinks, and STILL this robbery of MY money is the best they can come up with.)

You keep running around fixing symptoms, and think you're fixing the problem.

Posted by: TJ on August 10, 2009 at 1:39 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks, ripped. Yet another cut and paste job devoid of original thought. Despite the fact that the Gladney video shows no sort of "beating" and that the N-word was employed by a fellow black man, you guys continue to run with your victim story. As for the woman "smashed in the face," did you not see the cop walk right in front of her camera? If she was so badly injured, why did the officer not stop?

Group think and manufactured outrage - that's what the right does best.

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 1:46 PM | PERMALINK

STL_progress, the fact that you can't handle a well-written and articulate article, and instead feel forced to pretend it wasn't written at all, is incredible.

So with your logic, you'd re-write the National Anthem, because someone else had the thought?

And I'd post the link, but the fact is, once a Leftist knows the site is a "think for yourself" site, they won't go there.

But feel free to keep attacking the messenger. It is hardly a secret the Left finds it impossible to debate issues on their merit; it doesn't FEEL right.

Posted by: TJ on August 10, 2009 at 1:47 PM | PERMALINK

Say, if you want to reform healthcare COSTS, I'm all for it. But STOP suggesting the government can do it cheaper.

In fact, by eliminating a for-profit middleman the government can do it more cheaply, particularly under a single-payer model. EVERY GOVERNMENT ON EARTH WITH UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE DOES IT MORE CHEAPLY THAN THE U.S, you fucking boob, and some do it at about half the cost with better health outcomes.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 1:48 PM | PERMALINK

That is priceless. Just priceless.


http://www.thehamandlegsshow.com

Posted by: Ham on August 10, 2009 at 1:48 PM | PERMALINK
True reform is a piece of cake: Tort reform.

Except that its been shown that:
1) Tort reform, where implemented, does not reduce overall healthcare costs (and does not, generally, even reduce malpractice insurance costs.)
2) Differences in actual malpractice awards regionally do not have any correlation to differences in overall health care costs.

That reducing accountability for medical errors will control healthcare costs is a dogma of the Right, but this dogma isn't consistent with any of the relevant facts.

Posted by: cmdicely on August 10, 2009 at 1:55 PM | PERMALINK

Really, trex? That's your best shot? Why do droves of "other governments on Earth" citizens come to the US for healthcare, but NOBODY goes to "every government of Earth" FROM the US?

Oh crap, that's right!!! It is SUBPAR health care, LATE healthcare, pretty-much-you're screwed-healthcare....LOL

Hey, trex, you can get a car in India for $2500. No seatbelts, no airbags, no rollover protection, no accelleration, just "it will get you there." Guess what though? You can't even IMPORT the pos, because it SUCKS. Like "every government on Earth" healthcare EXCEPT the United States.

But thanks, you did ONE thing right: you provided the ad hominem attack right on schedule.

Posted by: TJ on August 10, 2009 at 1:57 PM | PERMALINK

ok so he is agaisnt healthcare reform that woudl help his uninsured tail be covered by something better than an emergency room visit.
and then he wants donations to help pay his trumped up hospital bills
oh my such fraud riddles the republican apryt and its conservatives.

Posted by: marcus on August 10, 2009 at 1:59 PM | PERMALINK

cmdicely, could you please reference instances where tort reform was implemented in a meaningful measure, in particular where multi-million-dollar awards are or may be granted?

Posted by: TJ on August 10, 2009 at 1:59 PM | PERMALINK

TJ - a "think for yourself" site, from the right? Wow, that's an oxymoron.

We're not the ones who check in with the great radio god for our daily indoctrination, and then parrot his exact same phrases over and over again. Have you noticed the debate currently occurring AMONG DEMOCRATS on the subject of health care? As in, we don't walk in lock-step like most of you. We are actually debating the issue, as opposed to screaming socialist/marxist/un-American/whatever and flinging teabags around.

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 2:00 PM | PERMALINK

I bet (in retrospect) Ken really hates the lawyer that convinced him that going to the ER was a brilliant idea. "What could possibly go wrong?!"

Posted by: gbear on August 10, 2009 at 2:04 PM | PERMALINK

this guy is taking up donation so that the rest of society can pay for his hospital bills, that really look to be fake anyway.
isn't that socialism.
me paying for your uninsured azz...........
and what abotu social security, all these old folks on social security screamign agaisnt socialism..tryught be told that is my money paying for them to sit on their butts and complain.

Posted by: marcus on August 10, 2009 at 2:04 PM | PERMALINK

Let RushHannity/Levin and DICKCheney take up their collection plates for their lying KLANFAN BIRTHER TEAPARTYING uninjured hero.

They're pockets are wickedly DEEP enough. They don't have to worry about healthcare. Corporate conglomerates and the U.S. Taxpayers are PAYING FOR THEIR HEALTHCARE already.

Posted by: Winkydoodle on August 10, 2009 at 2:06 PM | PERMALINK

>>

Which "relevant facts" are you referencing?

Where did I suggest, in any way, shape, or form, that I advocate "reducing accountability for medical errors?" (In fact, if you read the op-ed by CT, you'd notice his suggestion is that the doctor's right-to-practice is on the line; a professional medical panel would make the call though; not John Edwards and his 33% commission.)

Costs of ANYTHING are easy to control. However, you must first discover WHY things cost more than the market will support, then take measures to fix the PROBLEM, which will then cure the symptom.

Socialism, statism, fascism, etc., have all been tried by many other governments, and they have all been found desperately wanting. Why the Leftist of America think they can do fascism better that Mussolini is, I suppose, a "left-handed" compliment of the ingenuity of American spirit, but still not much in keeping with the precepts of the Founding Fathers or the 200 years of intentions and practices that followed.

Posted by: TJ on August 10, 2009 at 2:06 PM | PERMALINK

The wingnuts are coming out of the woodwork, like some horror film...

I think the Conservatives are scared because the single payer system does not cover complications from inbreeding?.

Posted by: Devin on August 10, 2009 at 2:09 PM | PERMALINK

What a riot. He can't file a claim without having "injuries." And since he has no insurance, his entire bogus "protest" sees the light of day. Yet... he continues on anyway. Irony be damned. The right is soooo stupid.

Posted by: Sam Again on August 10, 2009 at 2:09 PM | PERMALINK

STL, could you possibly, just once, refute one of my statements as not being factual, or will you spend the day insisting I get my information from Rush and it must therefore be inaccurate?

Please tell me where you get the RIGHT to dive into my pockets to pay YOUR healthcare.

Should I make your house payment then? Doesn't a fella have the "right" to a house? How about your car? After all, you can't contribute much to society if you don't have a car, unless you walk to work, so it only stands to reason I should make your car payment too.

Completely amazing concept that you think it perfectly ok to take my money and make your payments on ANYTHING, because it isn't "fair" otherwise.

When was the last time anyone on the Left compared their basic views with those political views of Mussolin, Ceucestiu, Lenin, and Marx?
When one mentions "lock-step" one must recognize how close to the aforementioned the Leftist view in America is today.

But those on the Left don't want to risk their head exploding, so they will avoid introspection at all costs.

Posted by: TJ on August 10, 2009 at 2:14 PM | PERMALINK

but NOBODY goes to "every government of Earth" FROM the US?

Wrong, princess In fact, health care tourism is on the rise. People can pay for air fare and fly to India for a coronary bypass and get top notch care and pay about a third of what they pay in the U.S., and they can even have it done by doctors and nurses who've trained here.

You're not even remotely equipped to discuss this issue, are you?

Oh crap, that's right!!! It is SUBPAR health care, LATE healthcare, pretty-much-you're screwed-healthcare....LOL

Reed it and weep, asshole. The U.S. underperforms other countries with universal health care in many areas The U.S. underperforms in many areas of health care compared to countries
of health care compared to countries while at the same time being wildly more expensive AND not covering all of its citizens.

But thanks, you did ONE thing right: you provided the ad hominem attack right on schedule.

That's just my little gift to the mouth-breathing dickweeds like yourself who post in hysterics. No need to thank me.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 2:15 PM | PERMALINK

Republicans are insane.


"Keep your government hand off my medicaid"


It just never gets old.....LOL!!

Posted by: Lilith on August 10, 2009 at 2:16 PM | PERMALINK

Socialism, statism, fascism, etc., have all been tried by many other governments, and they have all been found desperately wanting

False. The socialist Scandinavian countries enjoy a quality of life that is generally higher than the U.S., not to mention more direct participation in democracy, lower crime rates, more job and life satisfaction, MUCH better educational systems, better environmental controls, and on and on.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 2:17 PM | PERMALINK

As a physician, here are realities that people who do not work in the world of medicine must realize.

1.) Universal coverage would lead to basic coverage, which many entitled middle class folks probably would consider SUBstandard. A great example is a CT Head after a bump to the head, which would not happen if there were other signs that could possibly manifest after discharge. So you would return to the ER, but sometimes that has been too late. So are you willing to be that one person to save costs for all by increasing the threshold for ordering tests? I assume not.

2.) Europeans and Canadians are not completely satisfied with their system. Many do come here for treatment. For example, an anti-nausea medication known as Zofran just became part of the government pharmacy in some foreign states. Due to the need to "control" costs, latest possibly very effective treatments are not allowed, even for something small as nausea.

3.) Your waits would most likely be longer just because under a universal system, more people would show up for checkups. That's not a bad thing, but the resources to see those people needs to exist.

4.) Universal healthcare does not promote responsibility, which is my biggest concern. I don't see why people cannot be considered adults and punished for their actions by denying healthcare. All lifestyle related issues especially obesity should be denied coverage, unless they pay for it versus taxpayers. Tough love. Yes. But does State Farm insure alcholics? No.

5.) Spending in medicine from at least the physician end will not cease until tort reform is universal. I understand the concept of covering lost wages, but COMPLETELY disagree with emotional damages. Many patients with their pathetic mindsets damage my emotions, but I'm not suing them. And if I did, I wouldn't win, even though I should. Doctors less and less practice medicine and now practice law. But this is not changing, especially when a dirty lawyer is your President.

Posted by: TruthMD on August 10, 2009 at 2:18 PM | PERMALINK

If one of the Tea Party activists had assaulted, or even laid a hand on, an Obama supporter, the Steve Benens of the world would be outraged and wouldn't even question their story.

What a bunch of pathetic hypocrites on the left.

Posted by: Michael Freeman on August 10, 2009 at 2:19 PM | PERMALINK

To add:

Universal coverage requires a lot of sacrifice from everybody, but the public cannot expect people to not be compensated PROPERLY for their services, innovation, and availability. Most of you have never worked a demanding job. Yes, it sounds insulting, but I use to be in "common" work sector. Nothing compares to having deal with lives in the OR. Would I or many continue doing it if it meant being paid less than MBA graduate while being exposed to million dollar lawsuits each day? The answer is an emphatic NO.

Posted by: TruthMD on August 10, 2009 at 2:22 PM | PERMALINK

TJ misstated "but NOBODY goes to "every government of Earth" FROM the US?"

BULLHIT, according to a study by UCLA 464,000 Californian's (I took out the 488,000 who were Mexican immigrants so as not to offend your sensibilities) go to Mexico every year for healthcare.

Posted by: NWPragmatist on August 10, 2009 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

trex, you state it like it is a fact, but it isn't. Please, submit links that support your thesis. Include, if you would be so kind, immigration/emigration statistics over the past 50 years (we won't worry about the HUGE numbers coming to America -- not going away -- before then.)

Please reference the percentile improvement over teh US system in any given category, followed by the overall performance.

Please indicate the numbers, in percentile, of US citizens going to the Scandinavian countries for their healthcare, retirement, vacations, etc., vs. the numbers, by percentile, of Scandinavian citizens traveling to the US for the same priviledges.

I'm sure, since you have these numbers immediately at hand, you'll have no problems sharing.

Posted by: TJ on August 10, 2009 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

"If one of the Tea Party activists had assaulted, or even laid a hand on, an Obama supporter, the Steve Benens of the world would be outraged and wouldn't even question their story."

Umm, one of Obama's supporters was injured in this incident. He has a dislocated shoulder. Yet I don't see anyone being outraged by that.

Posted by: fostert on August 10, 2009 at 2:31 PM | PERMALINK

Looks to me like Buddy is the biggest ass on here but a few are close. Listen you GOPers need to think. Please educate yourselves and make decisions that are good for your families. It is so easy to scream but takes some effort to learn.

Posted by: buddys brain on FOX on August 10, 2009 at 2:33 PM | PERMALINK

I'm sure, since you have these numbers immediately at hand, you'll have no problems sharing.

Absolutely, asswipe.

Closing in on a million Americans a year heading abroad for care:

http://www.health-tourism.com/medical-tourism/statistics/

Just one basic comparison of outcomes:

http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S.%20HCweb.pdf

I can supply these links all day long.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 2:33 PM | PERMALINK

Universal healthcare does not promote responsibility, which is my biggest concern.

Yes, it does. It makes the point that we're all in this together as far as healthcare is concerned. You might subscribe to the prosperity gospel which regards those who can't afford decent healthcare in the US as somehow lacking in virtue, but that clearly doesn't "promote responsibility".

Would I or many continue doing it if it meant being paid less than MBA graduate while being exposed to million dollar lawsuits each day? The answer is an emphatic NO.

Off you go, then. You sound like you'd make a great realtor.

Posted by: pseudonymous in nc on August 10, 2009 at 2:34 PM | PERMALINK

There was something missing at the event. A senior citizen needed to stand-up and shout, "Keep the government out of my Medicare!!!" Then, someone could have passed out copies of Charles Pierce's new book, "Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free."

Posted by: mcartri on August 10, 2009 at 2:35 PM | PERMALINK

Well I commend him for NOT being a hypocrite. While he has lost his coverage- he isnt asking for a federal bailout against his personal beliefs- he is asking for the support of his community. Donations not taxations. Any that donate can obviously afford it, and all of us arent being asked to support him.
It is in stark contrast to those PAID officials we call senators and representatives who are planning on EXEMPTING themselves from the restrictions and rationing of the healthcare system they want to force upon us.

Posted by: bonedoc52 on August 10, 2009 at 2:37 PM | PERMALINK

Sigh. This is too much like shooting ducks in a barrel, but ducks have better odds.

Stick with percetages, trex. You obviously cannot debate the issue on merit, can you? So someone can't afford their own health-care policy, but they can afford to travel internationally to get it?

People who feel something holistic or non-FDA-approved will travel. Yoopdeedoo.

Hey, since the Left will glom immediately onto the "fact" the "nobody" is a literal statement, therefore should invalidate the point, how about refuting any statement with REAL facts?

Sorry, this has been fun, but kicking the collective asses of Leftists is a hobby, not a lifestyle. 44% of German's thought, in 1933, that Hitler was the answer too. There is no substantive difference between the outlook of the American Leftist of 2009 and the National Socialist of 1933.

I know I know; the American Leftist would never put a Jew in the ovens. But neither would it bother him for an instant if the fellow headed for the ovens was the American Conservative.

Posted by: TJ on August 10, 2009 at 2:38 PM | PERMALINK

TJ - Your argument is an emotional one, but it is not based in fact. You're so concerned that the lazy slobs of the world will pull a fast one on hard workers like you and me that you fail to miss the REAL problems we are facing.

1) In the private system, premiums are rising exponentially while services provided are falling. In other words, we are paying more and getting less in return because the insurance companies are pocketing larger profits.

2) Soaring health care costs are causing MANY companies to suffer financially, to the point that they're shedding jobs. Without health insurance costs under control, our economy will not rebound.

3) EVERY DAY 14,000 Americans are losing their health insurance, many as a result of losing their jobs. Without jobs, they have no money, but that doesn't mean they won't get sick. So when they get sick, who will pay for their? YOU and ME and everyone else with private insurance.

If you would do some research, it's glaringly obvious that we are on a path of destruction if we stay the course. Those of us with private insurance will continue to pay more for it. We will continue to spend more for health care than any country on earth, and yet we will still only have the 37th best system. To top it off, we may also have a near-total collapse of small business, as business owners like myself struggle to pay for even basic health insurance.

Your argument is no more than NIMBY, based more on selfishness than fact. It's time for real solutions for a problem that greatly affects us all.

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 2:39 PM | PERMALINK

LOL. Thanks for making my point. Every time one in 300 does something, boyhowdee, I get excited and change policy for the other 299.

You keep making those points all day long, sunshine.

Posted by: TJ on August 10, 2009 at 2:39 PM | PERMALINK

Kenneth Gladney's attorney was on the Dana Loesch radio show last night and debunked the myth that Kenneth has no health insurance. Kenneth has insurance through his wife. Apparently, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch incorrectly stated that he has no health insurance and refuses to retract the misstatement.

Posted by: Angie on August 10, 2009 at 2:41 PM | PERMALINK

You obviously cannot debate the issue on merit, can you? So someone can't afford their own health-care policy, but they can afford to travel internationally to get it?

Some can afford it because it is CHEAPER, dimwit.

Wrong again, asswipe, people are going abroad for high-tech and complicated cardiac procedures and replacement surgeries.

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=2016

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM | PERMALINK

Sorry, this has been fun, but kicking the collective asses of Leftists is a hobby, not a lifestyle.

Translation: The incredibly well informed and considerably brighter trex just handed me my flabby ass, and I'm totally unprepared for this conversation. So just to prove I don't understand a single thing I've ever read or the difference between fascism and a social democracy, I'll make a hysterical Nazi reference coupled with an insanely paranoid screech on the fly and run away like a wailing little girl.

Posted by: Susan Johnson on August 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM | PERMALINK

There's more than one videotape of the incident, Stevey boy, where there's no room for even your weakly feigned "skepticism".

The Libiot lie and denial that Conservatives haven't been and aren't now screaming for tort reform and pulling 20 Million illegal aliens out of our emergency rooms, which are the actual causes of this cluster, while demanding government clearly can't even run water by themselves deserves a response you won't like at all.

Posted by: Winghunter on August 10, 2009 at 2:49 PM | PERMALINK

Just because Mr. Gladney has no insurance doesn't mean the proposed healthcare plan doesn't suck. Two different "animals." Maybe he would rather not force people to pay his hospital bills, but will accept donations. Get with it, people, and take the blinders off.

Posted by: katie on August 10, 2009 at 2:50 PM | PERMALINK

That's it! Gladney has just flushed out the GOP healthcare plan. We have the media carve out space to solicit donations for all the medical expenses of the uninsured.

Posted by: bademus on August 10, 2009 at 2:51 PM | PERMALINK

Katie, please see my comment above. Mr. Gladney has health insurance. The Post-Dispatch reporter refuses to retract the misstatement in her article, and now the lie is spreading throughout the Internet.

Posted by: Angie on August 10, 2009 at 2:53 PM | PERMALINK

There's more than one videotape of the incident, Stevey boy, where there's no room for even your weakly feigned "skepticism".

Really? Put up or shut up.

Just because Mr. Gladney has no insurance doesn't mean the proposed healthcare plan doesn't suck.

Katie is right, we need a single-payer system and universal health care. A system where people have to beg for donations isn't workable, and an amalgam of private insurance isn't working now.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 2:57 PM | PERMALINK

I'm a federal employee and have the exact same healthcare plan that Obama and congress has. I DON'T want to lose this coverage and neither do they. If this new insurance is so good, why are't they forced into it as well? Because, just like me, they know it's a piece of crap. If you don't have the same insurance the O-club and I have, then you just don't get it. Another case of "do as I say."

Posted by: katie on August 10, 2009 at 3:00 PM | PERMALINK

Angie, if the Post refuses to retract, perhaps it's because their reporter has evidence to the contrary. Oh, I don't know....like a recording of a prepared statement delivered by Gladney's lawyer. Or maybe the fact that the lawyer announced IN FRONT OF 200 PEOPLE that his client would gladly accept donations for medical expenses.

It must be so hard to admit that your martyr is just a bum looking for a handout.

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 3:00 PM | PERMALINK

"Closing in on a million Americans a year heading abroad for care: http://www.health-tourism.com/medical-tourism/statistics/"

That link you provided highlights Bumrungrad International Hospital. I've been there, and the service is great. Much better than any American hospital I've been to. And that includes elite hospitals like MD Anderson. I've been to Bangkok many times, and each time I meet more and more people who are there for medical treatment. But on my last trip, I encountered something I really didn't expect: an American patient who had health insurance. He needed a two-level lumbar fusion surgery. It was cheaper to fly to Thailand and pay cash than it was to pay the copay in America. I asked him if he had post-op x-rays, and he agreed to show me the x-rays the next day. I work in the spinal surgery field, so I know what they should look like. And from what I saw, the surgeon did an excellent job. The patient had no complaints, and given that he had a prostitute with him, I'm guessing he was doing well. We sometimes use the phrase "if you can fuck, you're fine" when referring to surgical outcomes. So he was obviously fine. I'm sold. If I need elective surgery, Bumrungrad International Hospital will be my first choice.

Posted by: fostert on August 10, 2009 at 3:02 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe he should ask Michael Moore to pay his medical bills.

Posted by: mlaiuppa on August 10, 2009 at 3:06 PM | PERMALINK

This schmuck makes as much sense as those who kill "abortion doctors" to preserve life!
Until this year I never knew how stupid the Republicans really are...

Posted by: oldwhiteguy on August 10, 2009 at 3:08 PM | PERMALINK

From the St. Louis Post Dispatch on Friday, Ken Gladney..."said he had been hired by the Tea Party folks to hand out flags..."

Posted by: BillH on August 10, 2009 at 3:09 PM | PERMALINK

Wow! It's truly eye-opening to see comments from people who are amazed that anyone would protest something that would personally benefit them! That "only if it benefits me" attitude is why this country is in such bad trouble! If you aren't willing to make a stand for/against something when it would personally be worse for you, but better for society, then you really shouldn't be living in this country. The "me" attitude has kept the Democrat party alive and well for 40 years or so (it used to be a different party) and if the trend continues, our country is done!

Posted by: Bob Smith on August 10, 2009 at 3:13 PM | PERMALINK

Can we put him in front of the "death panel"? Teh stupid, it burns!

Posted by: Matt Jones on August 10, 2009 at 3:14 PM | PERMALINK

This guy is a phoney and ignorant to boot. He has no health care because he has no job and yet he is against health care reform. He is in a scuffle, but returns to the scene with a lawyer and begs health care dollars from the public. I am sure there is a web page set up to receive donations, which could make his get rich scheme quite lucrative on the short term. I hope the IRS is watching. Sounds like a "Madoff" to me.

Posted by: CarmanK on August 10, 2009 at 3:17 PM | PERMALINK

As usual, the name calling and anger drown out what could otherwise be a civil discourse on what needs to be done to make the system work better. As has been stated, tort reform needs to happen first before we have any change in how we order tests and what gets done just to try to protect oneself from the threat of a lawsuit. Secondly, we need to have a system where people who smoke, are obese, or otherwise make poor lifestyle choices pay an extra premium over those who live a healthy lifestyle. A majority of our healthcare expenses go towards paying for care that wouldn't even be necessary if people made healthier choices. Third, we do need to make changes to the way insurance companies are operating. I'm not smart enough to know what would be the best way to change that part of the system (because I've never worked in the field), but it is a necessity to improve outcomes and decrease waste. We don't need the government to engineer a takeover of the system as I believe that would lead to poorer service, less innovation, and greater expense to the population as a whole. Let's do what we have always done as Americans: use our ingenuity and drive to craft a new plan that fixes areas that need work and improves on the areas where we already are doing good things.

Posted by: Brad on August 10, 2009 at 3:17 PM | PERMALINK

And my daughter has a chronic illness and is can not purchase private insurance (she is on a County Program) and I oppose this Bill. I do NOT oppose Health Care Reform but I am starting to see that the current Bill as it stands, does more to create a new health care system than it does to reform the one we have. All I want is an opportunity to purchase my daughter insurance while retaining the right for all Americans to make medical decisions without government interference.

Posted by: Diana on August 10, 2009 at 3:21 PM | PERMALINK

Bob Smith - what are you smoking? The Republican party is THE haven for the me first/personal freedom/greed is good crowd. Just look at the teabaggers, whose sole motivation is paying less in taxes.

I have excellent health care and yet, as a Democrat, I understand the societal need for others to share in my good fortune. The Democratic party isn't perfect by any means, but they sure as hell do WAY more for the common good and the average American than the GOP ever has. The only thing the GOP does well is help rich folks get even richer.

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 3:23 PM | PERMALINK

Where did this term teabaggers come from? Every time I hear it I am reminded of another use of that term (of sorts) and I can't understand why anyone, no matter how idiotic their group seems to be, would want to be called that even in a different context...

Posted by: Amy on August 10, 2009 at 3:28 PM | PERMALINK
All I want is an opportunity to purchase my daughter insurance while retaining the right for all Americans to make medical decisions without government interference

in an HMO you have a bureaucrat whose job it is to deny as much care as possible so that they company can turn a profit interfering with your care. This is preferable to you how?

republicans are making sure that you will never be able to purchase health care for your daughter. they are defending the status quo at all costs. many democrats are as well, but the party in general is not as ideologically opposed to it.

Posted by: st on August 10, 2009 at 3:30 PM | PERMALINK

USA is the only country in the world for American people who bankrupted by medical care. If you are poor or unaffordable to pay medical care in USA, then you are better off to be dead. The true tragedy about the medical care in USA is that the profit always prevails over people�s health and lives. There will never be a free in America because of greedy capitalism that uses various political contributions to pay politicians for supporting the profit need. Obama recently said that Canadian medical care will not work in America and therefore, Obamacare will cost you more and less medical care availability. Freedom is bogus in America. Shame on American Capitalism!

Posted by: Unemployed Jeff on August 10, 2009 at 3:40 PM | PERMALINK

So Gadney, the anti-Obamacare activist, is trying to SOCIALIZE his health care expenses? That's the sto-o-opid at work, there.

Posted by: EZ Tempo on August 10, 2009 at 3:42 PM | PERMALINK

Do the Repubs simply not want to provide healthcare for all? Is there any compromise available? Do they care that people are dying, despite our ability to save them? They seemed to care more about saving the Iraqis and Kuwaitis than saving Americans.

Posted by: naomi on August 10, 2009 at 3:42 PM | PERMALINK

Amy, the term was coined by the leftists like Olbermann and Maddow, because crudity toward people who exercise their free speech rights (which expressing a point of view they find unacceptable) is their stock in trade.

Posted by: Michael on August 10, 2009 at 3:42 PM | PERMALINK

in an HMO you have a bureaucrat whose job it is to deny as much care as possible so that they company can turn a profit interfering with your care. This is preferable to you how?

How is getting a government bureaucrat an upgrade? Has the government ever made any process more efficient? How have they done at running the VA, Medicare and Medicaid? How will this be different from the mess they've made of every other form of health care delivery they've managed? Because Obama is president? Please...

Why is it necessary to change my health care delivery system in order to cover the uninsured? Expand Medicaid, tax the f#@% out of us to pay for it and move on. This would still be cheaper than the alternatives being proposed, and without the inevitable move toward single-payer that we all know is coming.

How could a system that is a dismal failure in Spain, England and Canada going to be different here? Because we're different? Because we're smarter than the Canadians, Spanish and the Brits? Do any of you actually know anybody that lives under single payer? It sucks.

Posted by: Mack on August 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM | PERMALINK

because crudity toward people who exercise their free speech rights (which expressing a point of view they find unacceptable) is their stock in trade.

Really? Then what explains the following crudities?

"Obamanation"
"Libtards"
"Moonbats"
"Traitors"
"Terrorist-appeasers"
"Baby killers"

Perhaps your thesis is wanting in accuracy.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 3:54 PM | PERMALINK

"Europeans and Canadians are not completely satisfied with their system."

As a Canadian who has lived in the US for the last decade, I have to say that the Canadian system beats the hell out of the "system" down here. I never had to wait for care in Canada. More particularly, my mother, who had significant health problems over the years and had several major operations, got what she needed when she needed it. If she had lived in the US at the time (she was on a widow's pension), she'd have likely been left destitute for lack of insurance if not prematurely dead.

Fortunately, I have coverage through my work.

Posted by: Richard on August 10, 2009 at 3:55 PM | PERMALINK

Its hilarious to read the physicians comments on CT scans. That is one of most overpriced procedures. The cost is of a scan is about $50 for the equipment, the rest is labor and profit for the scanner company. MRI scans cost is another overprice item. MRI's vary from $576 to over $3400 for the same procedure. The cost difference is somebodies profit not good health care costs. Under our system head scans are not even done in most cases of head bumps so the whole argument of raising costs to have public health care for everyone is just false lies by those who would lose, insurance companies, drug companies and doctors would want to drive that expensive sports car at our expense. No person in any country with single payer health care I have talked to would give it up, they all say our system is crazy. Why don't we move health care with its benefits and costs to the public stage rather than leave it to the fat cats in the back room by adopting a single payer system. Most single payer systems have private insurance for those so inclined so nothing for them would change. To keep congress and the president honest make them have the same system the public uses.

Posted by: mfellion on August 10, 2009 at 3:56 PM | PERMALINK
How is getting a government bureaucrat an upgrade?

Because he has no financial incentive to deny you care. He gets no awards or bonuses and is not bound by the stock price.

Has the government ever made any process more efficient?

Police and fire departments do quite well, thanks.

How have they done at running the VA, Medicare and Medicaid?

Very well, actually. Medicare controls costs better than does private insurance and has higher satisfaction ratings than does private insurance. Why do you think so many seniors are out there yelling to "keep your hands off my Medicare?" Because it works.

How will this be different from the mess they've made of every other form of health care delivery they've managed?

It won't, but since the track record is quite good, that's a good thing.

Why is it necessary to change my health care delivery system in order to cover the uninsured? Expand Medicaid, tax the f#@% out of us to pay for it and move on.

Two points: the first is that the "health care delivery system" isn't being changed. The second is that few here would argue with expanding Medicare or Medicaid. Too bad the Republican Party is adamantly opposed.

and without the inevitable move toward single-payer that we all know is coming.

ROFL.... Expanding Medicaid would *not* be "an inevitable move toward single-payer?" Tell me, what color is the sky in your world?

How could a system that is a dismal failure in Spain, England and Canada going to be different here?

Moron, the systems in Spain, England, and Canada are not only completely different from one another, but each of them is significantly cheaper, does a better job at controlling costs, covers more people, and has better outcomes than does the U.S. system. They are not, by any meaningful definition of those words, "dismal failures." The U.S. system, on the other hand, is.

Do any of you actually know anybody that lives under single payer? It sucks.

Why yes, I do. And not only does it not suck, it has higher overall satisfaction than does the U.S. system.

Posted by: PaulB on August 10, 2009 at 4:04 PM | PERMALINK
How is getting a government bureaucrat an upgrade? Has the government ever made any process more efficient?

Yes.

How have they done at running the VA, Medicare and Medicaid?

in fact, the health care delivered by the VA is rated as the highest quality. it is a model system. and as was noted upthread, medicare does a better job at containing costs than private care.

How could a system that is a dismal failure in Spain, England and Canada going to be different here? Because we're different? Because we're smarter than the Canadians, Spanish and the Brits?

your information is incorrect. not only are these systems not failures, they outperform our system in many areas. they all have upsides and downsides, and funding is always a challenge, but they are far from failures. i know americans who've relocated to canada and italy primarily to get health care.

Do any of you actually know anybody that lives under single payer?

Yes, a number of people.

It sucks.

no, even the worse single payer systems are broadly equivalent to the u.s. system, and the best ones are much better. along certain outcomes the u.s. is superior and there can be wait time issues on any given system for non-emergency care, but patient satisfaction is typically higher under single-payer, costs are dramatically lower, infant mortality is lower, life expectancy is higher, doctor-patient ratios are better in some (cuba) -- and no one goes bankrupt because they had insufficient coverage.

Posted by: st on August 10, 2009 at 4:04 PM | PERMALINK

All I want is an opportunity to purchase my daughter insurance while retaining the right for all Americans to make medical decisions without government interference.

Then in fact you do support this bill, dumbshit. You're just too ignorant to know what's actually in every one of its several iterations, and too lazy to look for yourself.

If you aren't willing to make a stand for/against something when it would personally be worse for you, but better for society

Which part is "better for society"? The 20,000 unnecessarily dead every year? The 60 percent of bankruptcies that are due to healthcare bills? Workforce immobility due to employees' fear of losing insurance and not being able to get more? Inefficient ERs that are crushed under the load of trying to provide services they're not designed for? The millions and millions of human hours wasted arguing with insurance companies who won't hold up their end of the bargain? Yeah, that all leads to a healthy and productive society.

Posted by: god, these people on August 10, 2009 at 4:08 PM | PERMALINK

**As a Canadian who has lived in the US for the last decade, I have to say that the Canadian system beats the hell out of the "system" down here. I never had to wait for care in Canada.**

Thanks for the Monday afternoon laugh. I worked for a Toronto Stock Exchange firm for years, and was blessed to have a management team that allowed me to work on "special projects" out of the NYC office so that I could get treated for breast cancer at Sloan-Kettering in New York at my own expense. The wait list in Toronto was up to five months for a routine mammogram, and the biggest joke among my friends was the ironic canard that "early detection was the best cure". I married my American fiance two years later, now live in NYC. I would not think of subjecting my friends or family to that sham of a system, and I fear for the yoke that Americans appear close to foisting on themselves.

You, my friend, are a heartless fraud.

Posted by: Barbara on August 10, 2009 at 4:10 PM | PERMALINK

LEFT: free & full healthcare for all
RIGHT: bankrupt the country, destroy innovation
TRUTH: ...

Posted by: Kenba on August 10, 2009 at 4:14 PM | PERMALINK

Amy, the term was coined by the leftists like Olbermann and Maddow

Can't you guys get anything right? The term was coined by the teabaggers themselves, who finally figured it out after weeks of well-deserved mockery by the left. We just refused to stop calling you what you originally named yourselves.

I can't tell if you people are shameless liars or just too helpless to get the facts before running your horrible little mouths.

Posted by: god, these people on August 10, 2009 at 4:14 PM | PERMALINK

He's absolutely right to oppose public health care -- if America had it, he would be deemed unfit for work by Obama's Death Panel of Bureaucrats and put to death in the same batch as Sarah Palin's baby with Down's Syndrome.

Posted by: Alexander on August 10, 2009 at 4:16 PM | PERMALINK

This just proves the saying, "consverative right wing GOP members and activists are proud to be stupid".

Posted by: Michael M on August 10, 2009 at 4:19 PM | PERMALINK
Amy, the term was coined by the leftists like Olbermann and Maddow, because crudity toward people who exercise their free speech rights (which expressing a point of view they find unacceptable) is their stock in trade.

Dude, what else would you call people who proudly brandish teabags and send masses of them to Obama and to members of Congress? Hell, many of them initially used the term themselves until they realized it had other definitions.

As for crudity, I trust you understand that the left is hardly alone in its use. If anything, "teabagger" is rather mild compared to the crap that is spewed from, e.g., Rush Limbaugh on a daily basis.

Posted by: PaulB on August 10, 2009 at 4:20 PM | PERMALINK

You, my friend, are a heartless fraud. -Barbara

She said to the mirror.

Posted by: doubtful on August 10, 2009 at 4:21 PM | PERMALINK

I would not think of subjecting my friends or family to that sham of a system, and I fear for the yoke that Americans appear close to foisting on themselves.

And yet significantly more Canadians than Americans are happy with their healthcare.

Maybe they just didn't like you, Barbara.

Posted by: god, these people on August 10, 2009 at 4:22 PM | PERMALINK
You, my friend, are a heartless fraud.

ROFL.... Oh, the irony. You do realize that one anecdote for one specific procedure is hardly proof of, well, anything, right? That a woman who has no insurance has no access to mammogram at all? And that Canada controls costs better, spends a hell of a lot less, covers more people, and has better outcomes than does the U.S., right?

Now tell me, who, exactly, is the "heartless fraud" here?

Posted by: PaulB on August 10, 2009 at 4:25 PM | PERMALINK

"You, my friend, are a heartless fraud. "

That would describe my opinion of you.

My mother had cancer surgery for a tumor found in her mouth. She was flown from Thunder Bay in northern Ontario to a hospital in southern Ontario soon after it was discovered to have that operation. A few years later, she had major surgery to replace the artery that went from heart to the lower part of her body. Needless to say, she didn't fly to the Mayo clinic on her cushy Stock exchange salary for that one.

Either operation (not to mention the other health problems she had) would have bankrupted her.

As for you, I hope you don't get layed off before discovering you have cancer.


Posted by: Richard on August 10, 2009 at 4:27 PM | PERMALINK

Alexander, not only is the "death panel" concept a complete and total fabrication (likely meant to draw more media attention to Gov. Quitter), but if you did your homework you would discover that private insurers deny thousands of life-or-death claims every year.

We already have bureaucrats denying care to Down Syndrome babies and others. In fact, under most private insurance, those with Down Syndrome are not even eligible for coverage. Ever.

Open your eyes. Sarah Palin is using her child to gain political points with uninformed dolts. In reality, the folks ACTUALLY fighting for those with special needs overwhelmingly support universal health care.

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 4:27 PM | PERMALINK

I hope he has to file bankruptcy because of medical bills, but right-wingers like him have drunk so much of the Kool-aid of rugged individualism and the sanctity of the "free" market that he would learn no lesson from it. He would probably say he had it coming.

Posted by: Kellia Ramares on August 10, 2009 at 4:27 PM | PERMALINK

The wait list in Toronto was up to five months for a routine mammogram

That's funny, because women in the U.S. are waiting just as long.

Or longer. At Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago the wait is nine months.

So the wait time is the same or shorter for this procedure in Canada AND it's free.

You picked one procedure with a particularly long wait time to try and cast aspersions on the system without being aware of the facts. Tsk tsk.

You, my friend, are a heartless fraud.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 4:28 PM | PERMALINK

Well, as a old-time union thug, let me point out--if we beat him, he wouldn't get up.

Nuff said.

Posted by: Lou on August 10, 2009 at 4:30 PM | PERMALINK

I think someone realized overnight once the wingnuts started playing him up as the victim that he could milk his "beating" into a nice little chunk o'change and decided to just go with it.
I call that pulling yourself up by your bootstraps.

Posted by: Jules on August 10, 2009 at 4:35 PM | PERMALINK

That's it? That's the fight video?

If people are getting up in arms about that short bit of heated emotion than we've got more problems than we thought.

Posted by: Smokin Joe on August 10, 2009 at 4:42 PM | PERMALINK

You're right we need more protesting the ole SEIU and ACORN way, beat those that disagree with us. What a sad bunch of compliant sheeple you are.

Posted by: Charlie Brown on August 10, 2009 at 4:43 PM | PERMALINK

Wait, I am confused? Gladney must support the president's health care reform bill because he doesn't have health care coverage? I think the author of this post needs a basic logic course. There are more options than to support nationalized health care. Thus it is not logical to conclude that Mr. Gladney is ridiculous to oppose the president's nationalized plan because he doesn't have insurance. There are plenty of valid and good reasons to oppose the plan even if you are in need of insurance and asking for donations to help with his own health care rather than driving up the national deficit further by requiring the gov to provide is, in my opinion, noble. If there were more people like Mr. Gladney then my children and the future generations would not face such such dire straits paying back the steadily growing deficit--$181 billion already accrued in the national deficit in the month of July alone.

Posted by: Adrienne on August 10, 2009 at 4:46 PM | PERMALINK

Here's the Teabagger argument against health care and health insurance reform in a nutshell:

"The US system for health care is the best in the world because it just is, so SHUT UP"

Posted by: Bob Loblaw on August 10, 2009 at 4:48 PM | PERMALINK

Is this part of the 1.4 million plus the Pay or Die health care industry is funding??? You betcha'...

Posted by: Chapman on August 10, 2009 at 4:52 PM | PERMALINK

If there were more people like Mr. Gladney then my children and the future generations would not face such such dire straits blah blah blah.

Not only are those 47 million sans insurance, they also lack the Protestant panhandling ethic. Those worthless slackers!

Posted by: god, these people on August 10, 2009 at 4:52 PM | PERMALINK

Could it be that he is more interested in what's best for this country than his own personal agenda?

Posted by: Larry Bird on August 10, 2009 at 4:53 PM | PERMALINK

Turns out he HAS insurance -- through his wife -- but has collected about $1100 in donations so far anyway, according to his lawyer:
http://bit.ly/15Z40g

Posted by: deviatar on August 10, 2009 at 4:54 PM | PERMALINK

in fact, the health care delivered by the VA is rated as the highest quality. it is a model system. and as was noted upthread, medicare does a better job at containing costs than private care.

The VA is a high quality delivery system? What? A model system? Wow. Like at Walter Reed, their flagship facility? Look up the Washington Post article of 2/18/2007 and read the blog links from the left hand side of the aisle. The VA is the same organization that was roundly criticized as a glowing example of how Bush didn't care about the veteran.

Medicare controls costs by reducing the amount that they pay providers for care. But of course, smaller payments equals better and more service, not diminished access. And I'm the one living in a technicolor dream?

I'll tell you what, though. I give you all credit for having the balls to just make stuff up as you go along. Outstanding.

Posted by: Mack on August 10, 2009 at 4:59 PM | PERMALINK

Adrienne
You are sort of missing the point. Mr Gladney would probably benefit a bit more if he had access to the plan that the White House and Congress is proposing. So would many who are unemployed and without insurance. And what's more the out of pocket cost for him would be much much lower. [A tax vs a hospital bill. Think about it].
It's just ironic is all. Fine if people are opposed to the plan based on cost or principle or something. But this whole scenario would not even be an issue if we had Universal Healtcare right now.

Posted by: ModDem on August 10, 2009 at 5:06 PM | PERMALINK

Oh, come on. Let's just euthanize him--along with Gramma and Sarah Palin's baby.

Posted by: Elise on August 10, 2009 at 5:15 PM | PERMALINK

To those making the comment that Medicare justs pays have never worked in a hospital. There are Medicare audits all the time. Medicare auditors come to the hospital to review records. Hospitals spend countless hours manually going through medical records for the documentation that a service was been rendered. Medicare does it's job as a watchdog. And, if you worked in a hospital you would know the mantra DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT AND DOCUMENT MORE.

Posted by: Pam on August 10, 2009 at 5:16 PM | PERMALINK

The VA is a high quality delivery system? What? A model system?

Yep.

"Revamped Veterans' Health Care Now a Model"

"The Best Care Anywhere:"

The Annals of Internal Medicine recently published a study that compared veterans health facilities with commercial managed-care systems in their treatment of diabetes patients. In seven out of seven measures of quality, the VA provided better care.

Like any system or bureaucracy anywhere, the VA has its problems, and some hospitals are better than others. But you measure the quality of care by studies done on health outcomes - not by online comments.

And no, Bush did not give a shit about veterans, nor did the Republicans who voted time and against more funding for veterans health care despite the fact that the wars of choice they committed to nearly doubled the number of veterans needing treatment and stressing the system, but that is not an indictment against the VA.

Anything else I can do for you, princess? I didn't think so. Move along.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 5:18 PM | PERMALINK

So, he got himself a plaintiff trial lawyer...
and wants to file suit. Doesn't sound like a Repub.

Posted by: Mike in Austin on August 10, 2009 at 5:20 PM | PERMALINK

And here's another bit of info about the government run health-care that the wingnuts are convinced will bring about the end of society (excerpted from the WaMo article linked above):

It gets stranger. Pushed by large employers who are eager to know what they are buying when they purchase health care for their employees, an outfit called the National Committee for Quality Assurance today ranks health-care plans on 17 different performance measures. These include how well the plans manage high blood pressure or how precisely they adhere to standard protocols of evidence-based medicine such as prescribing beta blockers for patients recovering from a heart attack. Winning NCQA's seal of approval is the gold standard in the health-care industry. And who do you suppose this year's winner is: Johns Hopkins? Mayo Clinic? Massachusetts General? Nope. In every single category, the VHA system outperforms the highest rated non-VHA hospitals.

I'm sorry that you have such a piss-poor understanding of the issues, Mack. Perhaps you should spend more time educating yourself.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 5:21 PM | PERMALINK

He got, what he deserved. How stupid, brawling and no health care. Only in America, can a person be against health care, and then beg for help, to pay his medical bills. Let him pay, his own medical bills. Maybe the Republican party, or Rush Limbaugh, will pay them. Let him go around, with a tin cup, and beg. He sounds like a bum. He's laid off, and instead of looking for a job, he fighting, at an anti health care, rally. He's probably collecting, unemployment.

Posted by: Chester on August 10, 2009 at 5:22 PM | PERMALINK

The VA is a high quality delivery system? What? A model system? Wow. Like at Walter Reed, their flagship facility?

Ummm...Mack, Walter Reed is a DOD facility not a VA facility. They are two different systems. Read the article you want everyone else to read. Those of us who were all over the issue at the time recall that in every article that ran, Dana Priest made certain to stress that Walter Reed is not a VA hospital to avoid convenient confusion like you just displayed.

Posted by: BG on August 10, 2009 at 5:23 PM | PERMALINK

Hey 'tards. I'm young and uninsured, and I don't support your government health care because I know it would bankrupt our country and lower the quality of care. Consider that there may be individuals out there who think about the welfare of their country too, not just themselves. - Buddy @ 11:07

While your might be young and uninsured, you stopped short of clueless and insular which are equally descriptive of your shortsightedness. Do yourself a favor and visit one of the disability blog sites for a while, imagine yourselves in their positions and what got them there. Wonder at their struggle to get ahead of their difficulties. Question if you would do the same in their shoes. Be astonished at the level of discourse, certainly equal to Washington Monthly. Don't loose sight that these are the privileged few who can take advantage of the internet to form bonds with others scattered around the globe and imagine what condition the majority of silent members are doing. Appreciate that you have virtually no say in what happens in your next breath. Who will be your caregiver in your time of need Buddy? Lastly, health care is doable but the good ideas just won't be coming from you. Step out of the way please.

Posted by: Kevin on August 10, 2009 at 5:31 PM | PERMALINK

Walter Reed is an Army Hospital, and not part of the VA system

Posted by: waltb31 on August 10, 2009 at 5:38 PM | PERMALINK

And he'll probably get a junkyard dog trial lawyer to represent him, too.

Posted by: bob h on August 10, 2009 at 5:40 PM | PERMALINK

"Revamped Veterans' Health Care Now a Model"

That article is from 2005, two years before the Walter Reed debacle. So the DOD hospitals are not government health-care? Remember, too, that Walter Reed is a flagship facility.

Regarding the VA, take a look at this HuffPo article "With A New VA Scandal, We Need a Military Health Task Force" dated 5/18/2007 regarding the need for a task force to investigate the VA. This was two years after the article you cite. Hell, do a Google search for "VA scandal".

There's a new Veterans' Administration scandal brewing. A McClatchy investigation suggests that senior VA officials falsified report data and issued misleading public statements about the VA's performance on everything from appointment scheduling to medical outcomes. We need to be sure we're getting accurate information about the VA's performance.

But hey, who's better than the government?

Posted by: Mack on August 10, 2009 at 5:43 PM | PERMALINK

"You have to be an American Republican to think the greater good is citizens not having health care. Nowhere else in the world are people this insane."

Go live there and get free spelling lessons.

Posted by: Mark on August 10, 2009 at 5:43 PM | PERMALINK

If Gladney has health insurance through his wife, why is he asking for donations to help with his medical bills? Is he going to give those donations back? I'm not holding my breath.

Posted by: beekabeck on August 10, 2009 at 5:49 PM | PERMALINK

"He can just get free care at the emergency room like all other uninsured people."

Um, you don't actually think emergency rooms are free, do you?

Is that what El Rushbo told you?

Because they aren't. They do bill the uninsured and they do send unpaid bills to a collection agency.

Posted by: Susan Jones on August 10, 2009 at 5:51 PM | PERMALINK

The video sure calls into question the claimed nature of Mr. Gladney's injuries. However:
1) I do not want the US Gov't. running car companies.
2) I do not want the US Gov't. running a nationalized health care system.
3) I do not want the US Gov't. to CONTINUE running Medicare/Medicaid into the ground.

In short, I want the US Gov't. to do what it does best: Make sure the Defense Dep't. is ready to respond in times of domestic/world military chaos. The US Gov't. NEEDS to get out of the business of being in private-sector business...

I am currently un-insured. I am currently un-employed, and my extended benefits are now exhausted. I have made three trips to the ER in the last 6 months to prevent my asthma from killing me. Those bills have finally reached me.
I have seen with hope that the economy may be turning around. I am hopeful that this news will soon trigger a hiring boom from those who can. I will then tackle these medical bills. I will derive a sense of pleasure and restore my self-pride when I pay these bills FROM MY OWN WALLET AND HARD WORK!!! To ask others to "cover" for me is not the answer. To build a health-care plan that is balanced on the financial backs of individuals and NEW TAXES is morally bankrupt. The fact that the current seated members of Congress (all 535 of 'em) will NOT place themselves on the same plan they wish to impose on you and me should be all you need to know about the soundness of the current proposed plan...

Posted by: Michael on August 10, 2009 at 5:53 PM | PERMALINK

Go live there and get free spelling lessons.

Um, there wasn't a single misspelled word in Shalimar's post. Does your insurer no longer cover your meds?

Posted by: god, these people on August 10, 2009 at 5:54 PM | PERMALINK

Just got home and saw the Gladney interview on Fox.

Why am I reminded of Andy Kauffman after his encounter with Jerry Lawler?

Posted by: Northern Pike on August 10, 2009 at 5:54 PM | PERMALINK

What we really need is an oopen and honest discussion of the health care mess we are in. GM and other big companies are in trouble because of escalating health care costs. The company I work for spends way too much on health care, and when you add up my part of insurance along with what the company pays, it's more than my wife and I pay in Federal income taxes. I have good (not great) coverage and am very fortunate to live within an hour of the Mayo Clinic, so my care is usually high quality. It's just that sometimes I had to argue with my old insurer about what was needed. If I lose my job, I wouldn't be able to afford insurance at all. Something needs to be done. Maybe the current plans in DC aren't perfect, but we need to talk this out, not deny health care to all. After all, this is America, not North Korea or Iran. By the way, Canadians I've talked to are more than OK with their system and I know a lot of Minnesotans and Washington state residents who go to Canada to get their prescriptions filled there. Less screaming, more discussion.

Posted by: f. willie on August 10, 2009 at 5:56 PM | PERMALINK

Um, you don't actually think emergency rooms are free, do you?

No, Susan, I don't. Have a look at my handle and see if you can figure it out. It was a bit too much for TJ's slow-firing synapses.

Posted by: Any idiot troll on August 10, 2009 at 5:56 PM | PERMALINK

Mack -- I think you're confused concerning Walter Reed Army Hospital -- Walter Reed is a military hospital not a Veterans Administration facility. Active duty and probably retired military can be admitted there. I'm not sure if disabled veterans, usually treated at a Veterans Administration facility, can be admitted to Walter Reed. Walter Reed Army Hospital along with the Veterans Administration Hospitals are all run by the Federal government

Posted by: Pam on August 10, 2009 at 5:57 PM | PERMALINK

I find it interesting that one man thus symbolizes the entire GOP and republican conservatives or "righties" as many called them on this blog.
I think many of you need to step back and really look at how ugly your words are. "most righties are on the lower income...; jobless; etc".... To set the matter straight, most conservative republicans live in the Bread Basket or Bible Belt--the Plains of the USA for those of you on the coast who don't know what that means. I have lived in both places and both work just as hard as the other to survive. Most conservative republicans are against this Health Care Reform for many reasons but two of them I will deal with here:

Not wanting to pay for other's choice to murder their unborn child--abortion is just a matter of deciding that life is determined through location: a preemie born at 4.5 months is still actively put on life care where as a woman has the choice to murder her child at the same period.... And yes this Health bill makes abortion funded through the government.

The second reason deals with government over-reaching its bounds and unfortunately not seeing the forest for the trees. If I choosen to not go with the gov't's health plan I will be fined $1000 or more for my choice. I feel much better knowing that a private insurance company is swindling me than my government. I and my family have been on Tri-Care--the military's/ government's health care. It's a nightmare. The military and the families involved are a small percentage of this nation's people. If the gov't can't enable it to run smoothly do you really think this new one will work? I and my family have also been on Medicaid...It's a nightmare. Wake up. Government-run and inforced health care has never done the job it needs too and I honestly think it never will until the Congress and Administration are actually on the same health care they inforce upon the common person.

As to my statement of not seeing the forest for the trees: It is not about insurance prices and the need for reform-- it is about Doctor's giving too many tests without diagnosing the problem and the insurmountable rising prices of those tests and the machinary involved. To have the same procedure done in India (by US-trained Indian doctors) costs less by 50% or more--for ANY procedure.

We need to put aside the hatred people and take a hard look at the facts. Socialism of any form, be it government, health care, draft, etc.. does NOT WORK. That is why "righties" are against this health care.

Don't mistake this one boob of a man for 50% of your beautiful country's people.

Posted by: rachel on August 10, 2009 at 6:01 PM | PERMALINK

That article is from 2005, two years before the Walter Reed debacle.

Who gives a fuck? It's not the VA.

So the DOD hospitals are not government health-care? Remember, too, that Walter Reed is a flagship facility.

The DoD hospitals aren't VA. The VA is an example of health care run well. You lose.

Further, the article is about the VA falsfying information. If you remember, the Bush administration had virtually every government agency falsify information: the EPA, the Bureau of Labor, the Department of the Interior - you fucking name it. The lesson in all this?

Don't elect jackass lying Republicans.

I can cite examples of piss-poor private health systems that are worse until your eyes bleed. I can cite private companies falsifying information and lying to Wall Street and/or being incompetent hacks until your head explodes. And again we get back to: single payer systems are cheaper, cover everyone, and have health outcomes that are at leasat equal and in some cases superior.

Health care premiums are doubling every ten years while wages stagnate. The system is in collapse. You won't be able to convince the insurers just to give up their profits in order to keep it going. They'll eventually fold when no one can afford care or will pay outrageous fees for shitty care and the CEO's will retire to islands in the Caribbean which they've purchased with your money billed at outrageous rates.

Your slack-jawed mantra about government not being able to do anything well flies in the face of the facts.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 6:02 PM | PERMALINK

"There's a new Veterans' Administration scandal brewing. A McClatchy investigation suggests that senior VA officials falsified report data and issued misleading public statements about the VA's performance on everything from appointment scheduling to medical outcomes. We need to be sure we're getting accurate information about the VA's performance."

But hey, who's better than the government?"
Posted by: Mack on August 10, 2009 at 5:43 PM

Mack, do you think for profit insurance is any better? Have you heard of Richard L Scott and Columbia /HCA?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3230/is_n12_v29/ai_20250662/?tag=content;col1
They were fined $1.5 BILLION for fraud.

The same Richard L Scott who is the founder of "Conservatives For Patients Rights", a lobbying group to maintain the status quo in healthcare.

Give me the government option any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Posted by: waltb31 on August 10, 2009 at 6:04 PM | PERMALINK

I find it interesting that one man thus symbolizes the entire GOP and republican conservatives or "righties" as many called them on this blog.

Lady, we're not the ones who made him our hero before getting the real story. Check out the "We are Ken Gladney" movement. Hilarious. Don't tell me you're going to abandon this noble soul now?

Don't mistake this one boob of a man for 50% of your beautiful country's people.

We won't. You're about 21%..

Posted by: god, these people on August 10, 2009 at 6:06 PM | PERMALINK

For those anti-choice folks who don't want to have health care reform pay for abortions, I think it shouldn't pay for erectile dysfunction drugs since they possibly lead to pregnancies.

Posted by: Pam on August 10, 2009 at 6:08 PM | PERMALINK

I'm truly amazed at the number of dingleberries willing to be cheerleaders for corporate health care. At least when a government program isn't working, we can fight for change and vote in new legislators. The government is by the people and for the people. It is us.

But what control do any of us have in the corporate system? NONE. They can ration care, deny life-saving procedures, cancel our policies, and keep us beholden to jobs out of fear that we can't get another policy. All the while charging us obscene prices and pocketing record profits.

Who in their right mind (other than health care CEOs) would prefer that? Do some of you people actually LIKE being powerless, corporate pawns?

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 6:12 PM | PERMALINK

Michael: We just had 8 years of the govt. not looking at the average U.S. citizen. Think about it, utilities, mortgages, credit cards, banks, investments, etc., all part of our lives, necessary parts, were left to go their own way, the way of the last administration. They even wanted to privatize social security. Where do you think that would be today after their meddling with deregulations? Basic human needs are the responsibility of govt regulation. Remember, we elect the officials who have the vote. We give Congress the power with our votes. It takes involvement and a strong leader.

Posted by: earthgirl on August 10, 2009 at 6:15 PM | PERMALINK

Socialism of any form, be it government, health care, draft, etc.. does NOT WORK. That is why "righties" are against this health care.

False. The socialist Scandinavian countries enjoy a quality of life that is generally higher than the U.S., not to mention more direct participation in democracy, lower crime rates, more job and life satisfaction, MUCH better educational systems, better environmental controls, and on and on. I can and will cite statistics to support this.

So now that the facts have refuted your claim, how do you propose to revise your argument?

As for abortion: I don't want my tax dollars going to kill people in Iraq or Afghanistan but they do and I don't propose creating a privately-funded military or dismantling it altogether. The idea that we should be able to pick and choose where our tax dollars go is foolish. Some will go to things that you find hideous or wasteful, but to deny a necessary and important program -- like the military -- because some of the tax dollars aren't used in ways that I agree is foolish.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 6:18 PM | PERMALINK

Was there something in the video that I missed?

That was a beating?

It looked a lot more like people shouting and two people tripping over the curb while standing in a group of screaming people. Worse case scenario there might have been some light shoving, off-camera, although the video doesn't really support the case that anyone was really "beat up" by anyone. Unless your standards for "beat up" are "fell down or possibly pushed down, people trying to help you up, then you standing up and walking away."

Rush and Beck are all over this guy's bandwagon-- I say they jumped waaaaay too quickly.

Posted by: zoe kentucky on August 10, 2009 at 6:26 PM | PERMALINK

These mob tactics are how a small group people like Hitler and the Nazis took control of Germany.

Not all conservatives are stupid,.. But all stupid people are conservatives
But all stupid people are conservatives.

Posted by: greg on August 10, 2009 at 6:29 PM | PERMALINK

This gut must also be suffering from an extraordinarily large set of balls.

Posted by: Liberal & Loving It on August 10, 2009 at 6:30 PM | PERMALINK

He's probably for tort reform, too.

Posted by: goethean on August 10, 2009 at 6:34 PM | PERMALINK

It's okay. Gladney deserved what he got because, "he attacked America," and "that's the union way." And of course, he's a black man at a tea party protest and we can't have black men making up their own minds about things. They're either pro-democrat or else, well, "that's the union way."

Posted by: w3bgrrl on August 10, 2009 at 6:42 PM | PERMALINK

Do you hear these little voices in your head often, w3bgrrl? Scriptwriting's not your forte. Probably someone should write you a scrip, however.

Posted by: god, these people on August 10, 2009 at 6:46 PM | PERMALINK

No, "god, these people," I heard them on a youtube video of the guy telling the people coming to Gladney's aid that his buddy attacked Gladney because, "he attacked America," and "that's the union way."

Next up from "god these people" and the idiots at Washington Monthly: Corporate Lobbying and Healthcare Reform. Why $150,000,000 in astroturfing from the pharmaceutical industry should be hailed as a glorious moment in progressive history.

Not all hypocrites are democrat, but all democrats are hypocrites.

Posted by: w3bgrrl on August 10, 2009 at 6:57 PM | PERMALINK

I have no health insurance, because it's too expensive due to tax brakes that big companies get. In other words, because the government is throwing our tax money into the insurance industry. You want to throw even more of our money into the mess. It's like fighting fire with gasoline. You think big government has more accountability than big corporations, but when people start protesting big government, you start calling them names and gloat when they get beaten up. It makes me thing that you don't want the government to be accountable (except, of course, if it's Republican and therefore evil and stupid). I have had enough of both Dems and Reps. Screw them all, vote them all out - while you can.

Posted by: newyorklenin on August 10, 2009 at 7:00 PM | PERMALINK

If Obama hadn't called out the Union thugs to punch back twice as hard, if the Union Thugs hadn't beat Gladney up He would not have needed health care.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson

Lock and load

Posted by: USAF retired on August 10, 2009 at 7:02 PM | PERMALINK

w3bgrrl wrote: "Not all hypocrites are democrat, but all democrats are hypocrites."

You need a reality check, kiddo. Republicans wrote the book on hypocrisy. You should run for office - somewhere other than my district, please - you'd be right in with the best of 'em.

Posted by: purplehawk on August 10, 2009 at 7:03 PM | PERMALINK

I guess he didn't want the big ole mean government to subsidize 65% of his Cobra payments (part of the ARRA of 2/17/2009). What a schmuck.

But I do love the irony of it all.

I hope Gladney appreciates his fight *against* health care all that much more now that he needs it the most.

Posted by: JB on August 10, 2009 at 7:06 PM | PERMALINK

The most interesting part of this whole thread is watching Godwin's Law be proven correct yet again. When people get to arguing, they lose all sensibility.

Posted by: Christian Romney on August 10, 2009 at 7:06 PM | PERMALINK

The same thing opponents to HC reform would say...one person does not represent the repub party or the tea party group....same for union member etc.

The hypocrisy of Gladney says it all...in a WC????Has an attorney but is laid off???? Has no HC but protests against getting it and ends up needing it. You just can't make this stuff up.

He's clearly after Joe the Plumber fame...already writing country songs in his head while hoping to get sent overseas somewhere or travel the country paid for as a victim of reform. Guaranteed to get a 'tea bag' audience from now on. Squirrel ...

Posted by: bjobotts on August 10, 2009 at 7:06 PM | PERMALINK

Next up from "god these people" and the idiots at Washington Monthly...Why $150,000,000 in astroturfing from the pharmaceutical industry should be hailed as a glorious moment in progressive history.

LOL. You really don't know this crowd, do you? You're 0 for 2.

USAF Retired: Outstanding parody.

Posted by: god, these people on August 10, 2009 at 7:06 PM | PERMALINK

he seems to have sustained some sort of brain injury

Posted by: Lucy B on August 10, 2009 at 7:17 PM | PERMALINK

Looks to me like an attorney sees a way to make a quick buck and he wants to show the guy in a wheel chair after he was shown walking around after the incident,When ever you go out on any kind of a protest march you can expect the worst and not expect the other people to foot your bills.
SORRY ABOUT THAT is he still in a wheel chair or up now walking around and laughing.

Posted by: Jack on August 10, 2009 at 7:21 PM | PERMALINK

I don't understand why anyone would be against a government plan, especially conservatives. As capitalists, we should welcome competition. We especially love when the private sector can compete with the goverment because we've all been told how inefficient goverment is. It should be a piece of cake to out-compete such an enormous and horribly wasteful bureaucracy as the Federal government, right? So why is the private sector worried?

Posted by: Christian Romney on August 10, 2009 at 7:21 PM | PERMALINK

Posted by: PaulB on August 10, 2009 at 4:04 PM | PERMALINK


Thanks for that rebuttal. The US ranks 37th in the world on HC. What idiot cannot understand that someone making billions off the HC ins industry will screw you for a dime and remain unaccountable after doing so. We are the government, we can make our government more efficient, we have some say and control over our elected representatives. We can get what we want.

With private ins we have no say and can be crippled and destroyed by their decisions at our most vulnerable moment. Making billions from HC coverage is only good for the billionaires so naturally they never want it to change no matter how many have to die. Gov doesn't 'make anything' from HC ins so we'd get a much better deal. Not For Profit should apply to HC.

Posted by: bjobotts on August 10, 2009 at 7:26 PM | PERMALINK

Christian, when the government runs in the red it borrows from China and increases your taxes. It doesn't trim the budget. A private company finds ways to increase sales and trim costs or closes its doors. Wake up.

As for "not having a say" against insurance companies, bjobotts, that is simply not true. Court decisions and legislation keep insurance companies in check against abuse. Who will you sue when Sebelius denies your claim for a $500 traction unit?

Posted by: w3bgrrl on August 10, 2009 at 7:38 PM | PERMALINK

A private company finds ways to increase sales

No, health care companies simply raise their prices, which is why premiums are doubling every ten years. Doubling.

and trim costs or closes its doors.

Which is why health care is too important to be left to companies with profit motives that either raise rates or go out of business altogether. Thank you for making that point for us.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 7:48 PM | PERMALINK

You know, given the way conservatives all babble the exact same message, using the exact same words and buzz phrases, I'm beginning to wonder if they're not some kind of cult. Or Stepford Wives reading from a common script. They haven't had an original idea since Gingrich in '94 and most of his agenda was a codified lie.

This is a (speaking generously) political party that doesn't deserve to have national prominence, and hasn't deserved it since adopting the Southern Strategy forty years ago.

Posted by: purplehawk on August 10, 2009 at 7:54 PM | PERMALINK

If this is the video I think it is, I noticed that the man being pulled away from the fight did not actually have a SEIU tee shirt, but a black tee with another symbol instead. Take a look again, and get back to us.

Posted by: N e i l B on August 10, 2009 at 8:07 PM | PERMALINK

Just kick him out of his wheelchair.

Then stomp on him hard, so that he really has some injuries.

F*rking hypochondriac hypocrite deserve no less.

Better yet, ship his Arse off to Iraq.

Wheelchair and all.

Posted by: Jon on August 10, 2009 at 8:17 PM | PERMALINK

fox news should have this guy on and gripe about frivolous lawsuits at the same time!

Posted by: Harold Taylor on August 10, 2009 at 8:18 PM | PERMALINK

Everyone pitching in to pay his medical bills?

Sounds like SOCIALISM to me.

Posted by: me on August 10, 2009 at 8:22 PM | PERMALINK

Of course we can add 47 million to the healthcare rolls, not add anymore doctors, have it cost less, and provide the same level of care.

Why would you think otherwise?

Posted by: E on August 10, 2009 at 8:26 PM | PERMALINK

The redneck had the SEIU shirt. Public Service Director of SEIU Local 2000 and Baptist minister Elston McCowan had a purple healthcare "change" shirt on.

Hmm, that button looks familiar:

http://www.google.com/search?q=2009_HC_Report.pdf+seiu

Posted by: w3bgrrl on August 10, 2009 at 8:28 PM | PERMALINK

Trex,

Do you feel the same way about homes, food, clothes, transportation and anything else that is "too important"? Why not just sit back, relax and let the government provide for your every need?

Posted by: w3bgrrl on August 10, 2009 at 8:30 PM | PERMALINK

As an Independent, and a centrist, I am against the Health Care "Reform." This administration, and any former administration, cannot manage Social Security, Mediare, Medicaid, U S Post Office, and many agencies...recall New Orleans? And have you called a government agency lately?
But they all of a sudden feel they can manage what would be the most expensive and LARGEST government ran business yet? Regardless of politics, Americans or not stupid. What is needed is reform of the PRIVATE insurance carriers NOT a takeover (yet another) by the U S Government. It is that simple.

Posted by: PMC on August 10, 2009 at 8:35 PM | PERMALINK

Do you feel the same way about homes, food, clothes, transportation and anything else that is "too important"? Why not just sit back, relax and let the government provide for your every need?

The government isn't providing for my needs under a single-payer system, you dullard, private companies are providing my care. The government is simply using tax dollars to pay for it, negotiating better rates and reducing administrative costs. Duh.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 8:47 PM | PERMALINK

But, but, trex.....Sarah Palin told me my doctor would now be a Nazi bureaucrat who wants to euthanize me. Obama's also going to replace all the nurses with ACORN workers. Right?

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 8:51 PM | PERMALINK

The 1,000,000-strong healthcare arm of the SEIU is pushing this bill so strongly, they actually pushed a man down on the street and pounded his face into the pavement. But you think it's about reducing administrative costs, trex. Yeah, between your care and a union health worker's job, which do you think the government will go after first?

Ha! Who's the dullard?

Posted by: w3bgrrl on August 10, 2009 at 8:54 PM | PERMALINK

The one thing the liberals forget is they are the minority and the real "silent majority" is standing up and taking back our country.

Posted by: chris on August 10, 2009 at 8:56 PM | PERMALINK

But, but, trex.....Sarah Palin told me my doctor would now be a Nazi bureaucrat who wants to euthanize me. Obama's also going to replace all the nurses with ACORN workers. Right?

Yes, STL, all the nurses are going to be big, gruff black guys in white skirts and nurses hats, carrying billy clubs and intimidatin' the wimmin.

Two things this thread have made very clear. The first: the Teabagging/anti-public health/anti-illegals crowd is not remotely conversant with this issue. They have preconceived notions based half-understood twenty year-old notions of universal health care, and for the rest they just know they don't want no gubmint gettin' in their way -- except for the fact that they unwittingly rely on the Federal government and all the "socialist" health and safety and infrastructure that our tax dollars provide every single day.

Secondly: most of them couldn't think their way out of a paper bag, and when you rebut their vague, unsupported claims with facts they call you an elitist.

webdullardThe 1,000,000-strong healthcare arm of the SEIU is pushing this bill so strongly, they actually pushed a man down on the street and pounded his face into the pavement. But you think it's about reducing administrative costs, trex.

Are you on crack?

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 9:01 PM | PERMALINK

Chris, perhaps when you emerge from the echo chamber you'll realize that it's YOU, not us, who is in the minority. See the latest Gallup poll, which reveals that 30 states are now considered "solid Democratic." Guess how many are solid Republican? FOUR.

And w3bgrrl - I'd also like to know if you're on crack. Because I just finished watching a Fox News clip of the man whose face was "pounded into the pavement," as you say, and miraculously his face doesn't have a single scratch on it.

Do facts mean nothing to you people??

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 9:08 PM | PERMALINK

What is a tea bagger?

Posted by: Hussein on August 10, 2009 at 9:14 PM | PERMALINK

The one thing the liberals forget is they are the minority and the real "silent majority" is standing up and taking back our country.

Richard, is that you, speaking to us from the grave?

Posted by: southern strategist on August 10, 2009 at 9:24 PM | PERMALINK

And w3bgrrl - I'd also like to know if you're on crack. Because I just finished watching a Fox News clip of the man whose face was "pounded into the pavement," as you say, and miraculously his face doesn't have a single scratch on it.

That's the sly cunning of the SEIU for you. When 1,000,000 guys beat the living daylights out of one poor patriot, they can spread their blows out so thin so that you won't find a mark on him. Fiendishly good, aren't they?

Posted by: southern strategist on August 10, 2009 at 9:27 PM | PERMALINK

"w3bgrrl"? Tell me this isn't somebody's great-granny. No one under age 104 would be caught dead with that handle. Your neighbor kids have been having you on, love.

Posted by: on August 10, 2009 at 9:29 PM | PERMALINK

Southern Strategist - HA!! Who knew the SEIU could be so nuanced in their thuggery!

Posted by: STL_progress on August 10, 2009 at 9:33 PM | PERMALINK

I'm one of those uninsured Conservatives too:)

You want to know WHY the working poor (amazingly, not all conservatives are rich white people in Brooks Brothers suits) aren't interested in this healthcare bill?

1. It costs to much.
2. The working poor already has "universal" healthcare in the form of clinics, and charity care at hospitals. We already have personal experience with it, and know how truly horrible it can be.
3. All the shady stuff inside this bill that is being supported by shady people.
4. Pres Barry has already said this bill WILL NOT cover everyone, hence the term "universal" is false. I didn't hear that on the radio, or FOX or read it on the internet. I heard it come out of the mans own mouth three weeks ago during a live speech. A true politician, old Barry worked the crowds with the rhetoric before getting elected, and now the tune changes.
As a final note, asking people to donate for his medical bills IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO, is not socialism. A government forcing people to do it whether they want to or not, IS. It continues to amaze me at how some on the left talk about "helping others," but when it's a conservative asking for help, suddenly it's outrageous.
LOL

Posted by: Nikki on August 10, 2009 at 9:37 PM | PERMALINK

Thoughtful debate should win the day. But seeing the mess we as Americans allowed to happen... maybe folks will actually speak up about the need for affordable real health care without pre-existing exclusion clauses. Will America be fooled again by the Death Panel clowns or will we insist on real debate. The choice is not just about old people today or babies today but old people, young people of tomorrow.(Fraudney King was too funny.)

Posted by: Mikey on August 10, 2009 at 9:39 PM | PERMALINK

It costs to much

Did you object to the trillions it cost to invade Iraq? Did you object to Bush and the Republicans spending more than any administration in history, creating the largest deficit ever while giving enormous tax breaks to the rich and to corporations?

I didn't think so.

But you object to spending money so everyone can have health care. Is there some reason you think health care costs should break the backs of business and individuals?

The rest of your points are drivel. Shady stuff? Cite it. Tell us exactly what. Show us. Let's debate it. C'mon, let's get at the meat of it.

You can't. Because there is no "shady stuff." It's something you made up in your head.

but when it's a conservative asking for help, suddenly it's outrageous.

It's not outrageous, it just highlights his utter stupidity. He's working against his own economic interests because he can't get past his ideological blinders. And to try and extrapolate a system from his example means basically that we will become a society of beggars just to keep ourselves healthy and alive.

That's some genius conservative thinking for you right there.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 9:49 PM | PERMALINK

If Democrats want to reform something they'll take it over and turn it into a socialist system, but if Republicans are in charge everything will be a utopia because they are the party of jesus. I just wish the Republicans were in charge and running things when the financial markets started falling apart so they could let the free market manage itself. Oh wait... they where and they did. That worked out well didn't it?

http://www.fishingwithdarwin.com/17/

Posted by: Barry on August 10, 2009 at 9:50 PM | PERMALINK

It's ok to beat up Conservatives.
Our Liberal friends are very tolerant...kind of.

Posted by: mmmmmmm on August 10, 2009 at 9:52 PM | PERMALINK

Gladney the uninsured activist
Had a wooden puppet's nose.
And if you ever saw it,
You would even say it grows.
All of the G.O.P.ers
Used to laugh and call blacks names.
They never let the Negroes
Join in any right-wing games.

Then one steamy summer night,
'Baggers came to town:
"Kenneth, with your 'injuries,'
Won't you warm this wheelchair, please?"
Then how the wingers loved him,
And they cackled with delight,
"Gladney the shameless faker,
You're a hero of the right!"

Posted by: shortstop on August 10, 2009 at 9:55 PM | PERMALINK

If Senators in these Town Hall meetings would just ANSWER the questions about the Healthcare Bill....but, they don't KNOW the answers!!

Posted by: Holly on August 10, 2009 at 9:57 PM | PERMALINK

Sometime soon we'll learn that his name isn't really Kenny, he is not an unemployed plumber, he is employed by insurance lobbyists and he always dreamed of being on TV. He wasn't really hurt, his granny had an old wheelchair sitting around that has been used in family scams before and he fantasizes about Sarah Palin in a flowing white virginal gown that she tears off just for him-----every night in his dreams. Hospitals barely treat you if your bones are broken. No hospital wrapped that guy so thoroughly in bandages and gave him a wheelchair without insurance. Want to bet that his lawyer arranged all that? Enquiring minds want to know.

Posted by: karela on August 10, 2009 at 9:59 PM | PERMALINK

Holly, have you watched the videos? The moment the Senators start speaking they are shouted down and called liars. The Senators do know the answers but the protesters/rioters don't care. They are there to disrupt, nothing more.

Posted by: Barry on August 10, 2009 at 10:03 PM | PERMALINK

"Did you object to the trillions it cost to invade Iraq? Did you object to Bush and the Republicans spending more than any administration in history, creating the largest deficit ever while giving enormous tax breaks to the rich and to corporations?"

Actually, if you paid attention to any opinion but your own you would know that conservatives DID have a problem with Bush spending money. The Evil Rush Limbaugh, the Evil Sean Hannity regularly railed against the spending of Bush 43. But, if you think the out of control spending was bad then, is it bad now? Will YOU rail against Obama and single year trillion dollar deficits?

In Canada...it takes 2 - 3 years to get a doctor. One of their liberal party members found a lump in her breast - she went to California. The President of Italy goes to Cleveland for heart surgery. It is a good thing both of them had the money to come here to get treatment.

Posted by: E on August 10, 2009 at 10:06 PM | PERMALINK

Oddly, I notice that with this guy, and Joe the Plumber, all sorts of attacks have to take place on what a terrible horrible person they are, opposed to what they say.

Well, you see, when what they say turns out to be a pack of lies, that does lead the public to make personal judgments on their character, yes. It's unfortunate that you think that's somehow unfair.

Posted by: shortstop on August 10, 2009 at 10:06 PM | PERMALINK

@w3bgrrl

"Court decisions and legislation keep insurance companies in check against abuse"

But I thought we wanted tort reform to prevent exactly this situation you're advocating.

"It doesn't trim the budget."

Actually, under Clinton, we had a balanced budget.

"A private company finds ways to increase sales and trim costs or closes its doors"

Proving the point. A private company is primarily concerned with profit. No one's arguing the Health Insurance companies aren't good at maximizing profit - in fact they're *too* good at it. They maximize profits by cutting costs - in short - by denying claims. In fact, if they never had to pay out a single claim that would be the best of all possible outcomes for them.

Posted by: Christian Romney on August 10, 2009 at 10:15 PM | PERMALINK

Gosh I sure hope this post on this blog wasn't meant to be mean spirited. That would be too ironic wouldn't it?

Gladney still doesn't want the health care debacle congress is proposing. Funny thing is congress wants no part of it either. They just want us to have it.

Posted by: Karen on August 10, 2009 at 10:17 PM | PERMALINK

Actually, if you paid attention to any opinion but your own you would know that conservatives DID have a problem with Bush spending money. The Evil Rush Limbaugh, the Evil Sean Hannity regularly railed against the spending of Bush 43

Did they? And that's why they supported him lock, stock and barrel every moment of his presidency? Give me a break. Did Rush get on the radio every day and criticize Bush for his spending? Did Hannity? No. Did they do it even infrequently? No. Were there anti-spending principles so staunch that they put their foot down and said, "we can't fund the occupation of Iraq any more."? No.

Rush actually made excuse about how the spending was necessary because Republicans had to follow Bush or there would have been party "disunity." Now and then they dropped a mild complaint about the spending like a fig leaf, and then supported every bit of the spending.

Save it for someone who's buying it.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 10:18 PM | PERMALINK

"He can just get free care at the emergency room like all other uninsured people.
Posted by: Any idiot troll on August 10, 2009 at 8:56 AM | PERMALINK"

actually, get your facts right. No care at any hospital is free. It is true that, by law, you must be treated if you go to an emergency room, whether you have insurance or not, whether you have money or not.
But the treatment is not free. You will merely be billed within the month for all treatment costs. If you don't pay those bills, or work out a payment plan, then they will go to collection and your credit report will reflect any accounts in collection.

Posted by: klughs on August 10, 2009 at 10:21 PM | PERMALINK

@w3bgrrl

"Court decisions and legislation keep insurance companies in check against abuse"

I keep scratching my head because this line of reasoning is so disconnected from reality. Let's think about this for a moment. If *your* insurance company abuses the system and refuses to pay your claims, you're telling me the situation you hope to find yourself in is to wait for the courts or the congress to rule or legislate your way out of the problem? So aside from being ill and going broke from the medical bills you'll have, you *want* to have to hire an attorney too? Sorry, I don't think bankrupting people when they get sick is good public policy.

I think the problem in this debate is that too many people like to reason from abstract principles rather than trying to imagine themselves (and by extension millions of their countrymen and women) in a situation and finding good solutions to alleviate suffering and promote productivity.

Posted by: Christian Romney on August 10, 2009 at 10:24 PM | PERMALINK

Here's a perspective on National Health Care from an esteemed MP in England. First-hand knowledge:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2009/08/10/fnc-interviews-brit-who-warns-america-against-national-health-care

Posted by: TJ on August 10, 2009 at 10:43 PM | PERMALINK

Here's a perspective on National Health Care from an esteemed MP in England. First-hand knowledge

First hand propaganda. Daniel Hannan is a hardline conservative who doesn't believe in deficits or apparently understand macroeconomics, who praised the economic system in Iceland as a model for all to follow just prior to it completely melting down and plunging the country into a depression, and who thinks Slobodan Milosovic was not a particularly bad guy.

The British system is not what the American system would or should be, nor is it even representative of other systems, nor it is as bad as Hannan tries to make it out to be.

Next.

Posted by: trex on August 10, 2009 at 10:54 PM | PERMALINK

"In Canada...it takes 2 - 3 years to get a doctor."

Barry, Barry, Barry....You're delusional and/or ignorant. Aren't you even the least bit embarrassed by such public displays...

Posted by: Don on August 10, 2009 at 11:51 PM | PERMALINK

"they actually pushed a man down on the street and pounded his face into the pavement"

As someone who has actually had his face pounded into the pavement on several occasions, I can say that at a bare minimum, it results in bleeding. Most times, you can add in broken teeth and skull fractures. The complete lack of even a single scratch pretty much guarantees that he didn't get his face pounded. Either that, or his skin is made of steel with a Rockwell hardness of around 60.

As for the courts keeping the insurers in line, are you joking? The courts have ruled that rescission and denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions are legal. Now maybe if the insurance companies were in danger of losing a class action suit, maybe that would keep them in line. But they are in no such danger.

Posted by: fostert on August 11, 2009 at 12:13 AM | PERMALINK

Earthgirl: I quite agree--The Beltway Temp residents have completely forgotten what the term "Elected to Represent" means---And it wasn't just the last eight years, either. The elected reps in DC have paid far more attention to the special interests than common American interests. The American people were more concerned with driving status-symbol vehicles than vehicles that represented fresh, smart and bold energy-efficient cars. Congress, new session after new session, consistently voted themselves pay raises. The American people failed to stop this. Now we have reps who are more interested in holding onto a $169,300 per year job as opposed to risking that salary for the common good. And you wonder why the Gov't has failed to protect US???

Posted by: Michael on August 11, 2009 at 12:34 AM | PERMALINK

Where have you gone Alanis Morrisette? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you. Woo, woo, woo.

Posted by: BlueCollarJane on August 11, 2009 at 1:19 AM | PERMALINK

Shortstop, you forgot one point in your post about using the ER:

The hospital can and often will go to court to take your car or, if you own one, your home to settle unpaid bills. Or any other asset you may own, of course.

Posted by: Nancy Irving on August 11, 2009 at 2:18 AM | PERMALINK

And who is going to pay Gladney's bills if he gets sick? Will there be donations to cover those costs or will he just file bankruptcy?

I'd like a reporter to find out how long this guy has been unemployed. Is he benefitting from the extended unemployment checks that the Democrats passed and the Republicans were against? I suppose he's against the Stimulus bill too that provided the additional unemployment benefits and job training if he needs it. Sheesh!

Posted by: Debra on August 11, 2009 at 3:11 AM | PERMALINK

By paying directly for the health care instead of paying via insurance, he keeps his premiums from going up.

And the hilarious thing is...you don't see anything wrong with that state of affairs.

Posted by: god, these people on August 11, 2009 at 8:33 AM | PERMALINK

Where have you gone Alanis Morrisette? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you. Woo, woo, woo.

Hilarious. Well done - don't agree with your point of view, but that was awesome.

Posted by: Mack on August 11, 2009 at 9:08 AM | PERMALINK




 

 

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