yeah...o.k.....so what do we do about it?

Very insightful. Spot-on.

i've said it before and i'll say it again: if bruce bartlett and not rush limbaugh were the voice of american conservatives, the body politic would be much better off.

bartlett is a true, honest conservative: there aren't enough of them.

Ah yes, death panels.

Why is it that practically nobody in the media - and _definitely_ nobody in the MSM - can bring themselves to call Sarah Palin exactly what she is: a baldfaced, despicable LIAR???

She is utterly beneath contempt.

Two things must change before this problem can be solved: (1) the media must be held accountable for its addiction to trivia, process, stupidity, voilence, conflict, and slavish adoption of the Republican framing of issues; (2) public financing and free TV time before elections, so that corporations can no longer control the political process.

American political discourse is reported on by people whose livelihoods depend upon the whims of organized wealth. It's that simple. They are just better-paid whores than Eliot Spitzer's hookup.

bluecrab, i have a simple solution to that problem (simple in theory, hard to put in practice). as long as the media are going to be in "he said/she said" mode, go ahead and frickin' say it.

if every democrat said "sarah palin and other republicans are flat-out lying about death panels," then we'd have a shot at getting those words out there, because you're right, on their own, our talking heads ain't a-gonna do it.

Thanks for this, Steve. I hated when the Bushies would ignore valid protests and now when the protests are phoney I wish the admin would treat them as irrelevant. Although I do think it is time for the Democrats to start using the word liar and applying it to particular people on the right.

The RWLemmingdom will never admit the failure of RWconservativism. How often have we heard RWers state that GeeDubya was not a conservative, despite his disastrous policy record over the prior eight years?

Hopefully enough of the malleable middle will be exposed to the screaming town hall nutcases who fear the death panels and make statements such as "keep your Gubmint hands offa my Medicare" that they will not want to watch the programs where conservatives are given a forum. It's starting to take hold against Glenn Beck.

The RWLemmingdom is losing everything, & they're going down in flames. Get your popcorn ready and enjoy the self destruction.

I think a strong argument can be made, not that the Republicans failed, but that they succeeded.

Many of their goals have been met as evidenced by recent figures showing growth in income inequality, rapid growth in health insurance company profits during the Bush years, rapid growth in the profits of oil companies, rapid consolidation of ownership in network/cable/radio media, rapid growth of the military industrial complex, rapid growth of taxpayer subsidies to big agriculture, Medicare Part D for the benefit of pharmaceutical companies,...

Despite their small government rhetoric (that they don't believe themselves), these are the objectives of the corporate-financed Republican party, and the Republicans succeeded during the Bush years probably way beyond their expectations.

(address the media's role in this)

On the Saturday morning today show, Joe Scarborough was given a sitting interview to analyze and discuss the merits of whether or not the media has been fanning the flames of public discontent by wallpapering coverage of the shouters and the birthers.

While Joe and the weekend host both agreed that TV does, indeed, like a good punching match because it's what they do best ... Joe also thought it was unfair to call TV to account for cheaping public policy discourse.

I couldn't bear to watch it, I had to turn it off. Joe Scarborough, low-rated MSNBC cable host, is brought onto the flagship NBC daytime news program to do ... media analysis of NBC? How do you even begin to address the layers of unprofessionalism?

Well, I get the fact that he doesn't like Dubya a whole lot.

Frankly, as a liberal, I think the moral thing to do is to acknowledge that right-wing ideology is just wrong for America -- not that this or that right-wing administration happened to veer off the true party path.

Barlett's comment on the Media however is spot-on. People complain about 'he-said-she-said' journalism. (Have a look here for an almost notorious example by CNN's Candy Crowley.)

But that's only part of it. The other part is the attention the media routinely gives to these fringe issues generated from the right. I'm mean, you're going to get Sarah Palin talking about one form of 'death panel' for the next forty years. My question, is why is the Media always so primed to give it attention -- even of the he-said-she-said variety?

I don't think that this can be said enough, but you can depend on the MSM to respond to this by condemning the DEMOCRATS for not being accountable. I've already heard Villagers tut-tutting Obama for mentioning that he inherited a 1.2 trillion dollar deficit in the midst of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. According to our media wise men, OBAMA is trying to evade responsibility in citing this glaring and incontrovertible fact. It makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

To put it mildly, the MSM has scant regard for the truth. This, more than any other development is endangering our country.

Post Cheney/Bush Republicans have put in to swim the longest river in the world, but they fail to realize they will surely drown as they tire while swimming da nile! Already we are witnessing some taking the breath out of others to stay afloat as they sink in the eddies of partisanship and obstructionism! -Kevo

"Just look at the silly issue of death panels. The media should have laughed it out the window, ridiculed it or at least ignored it once it was determined that there was no basis to the charge. Instead, those making the most outlandish charges are treated with deference and respect..."

The media should have done more than laugh it out the window. The media should have called Sarah Palin exactly what she is: either unconscionably IGNORANT when daring to speak about an issue she knows next to nothing about, or a baldfaced, despicable LIAR. There really is no other reasonable conclusion.

The same goes for the birthers.

the people in the media are lame, yes, but the ones that aren't paid propagandists (eg Fox) are basically courtiers. they'll respond to the flow of power in the court.

this really lies on the shoulders of the Democratic Party. many of them, however, are just as complicit, and have no inclination to make any noise about it.

of course criminals don't believe that they ought to pay any price, that's why we call them "criminals". someone has to prosecute them. someone has to make the case against them. someone has to call a liar a liar. and to get any attention, that someone has to be in a position to *do something about it*.

until and unless someone with political power uses that power to deliver consequences, nobody will care about a few sternly worded letters or tsk-tsking op-eds.

Bartlett is apparently under the misapprehension that the media and the Republican Party are distinct independent entities. In fact both are simply servants, in different ways, of the plutocracy that holds largely unchallenged political and economic power. The GOP is the right hand and the media is the left, if you will.

So long as the current media ownership remains as it is, there is no way it will undercut the interests of its masters. Pointing out the dishonesty of the GOP conflicts with the interests of the health insurance industry, so the corporate-owned media is powerless to tell the truth.

The only people in the media who really tell it like it is are Rachel Maddow and Kieth Olbermann and Kieth can rise to a similar level of vitriolic silliness as those he criticizes. But to some degree we still need to take him seriously because for all the bombast he is one of the two most accurate voices on television.

Well, I was gonna agree with Bartlett, in re the 'media', but I see a whole passel of people have beat me to it.

So I'll just as my two cents: Media is a Business, bought and paid for by corporations beholden to theirshareholders.

-And they ain't gonna bite
the hand that feeds 'em. . .

political parties should do penance for their mistakes and just losing power is not enough. Part of that involves understanding why those mistakes were made and how to prevent them from happening again.

Fair enough. How 'bout we start with the mistakes made in the early part of the last century - which very nearly sank this country in the 1930s? And why don't we consider why a failure that spectacular resulted only in a determination to reinstate those policies which had so spectacularly failed - only to have them fail again?

It's a lovely sentiment, Mr. Barlett. But unless you're willing to apply it beyond the Bush administration, it's a pointless one. Bush was no aberration, he was culmination. He was part of a pattern that goes back generations. And until we address that, it's going to continue for generations.

Democrats on tv shows simply need to force the issue by insulting these people.

How can you talk about retarded oafs without calling them retarded oafs?

When they pompously object to being insulted, don't back down, force your point forward whatever they say. They are driveling freakish idiots.

Point it out!

slightly off the media topic...if you go to the original barlett article [http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-08-12/the-gops-misplaced-rage/full/], scroll down and read some comments...there are all sorts of conservatives/republicans/lemmings calling HIM a rino....it's mind blowing how they eat their own

Unfortunately, the Obama administration is continuing the sins of Bush/Cheney: FISA, escalation of war, allegiance to the Wall Street thieves, detention,DADT, etc.; and now they'll fail on health care.

I didn't expect much from the Obama administration, but I expected more than this.

This is a topic that deserves a book length response.

Thomas Frank addressed it fairly well in "What's the Matter with Kansas". Rough idea was that the masses are genuinely upset, hurt and suffering. Jobs are disappearing, life is not as good as it used to be. The Democratic Party gave up on fighting for economic rights for the middle classs hoping to get funding from big business while keeping the base by supporting liberal social issues. With no where to turn some of the masses are caught up by the emotion provoking issues promoted by the Republicans. There is a constant drum beat of the Liberals being responsible for every ill in the world. And so you wind up with the phenomena of angry, abused people storming the gates of government shouting "we're mad as hell and we want you to cut taxes for rich people".

I'll agree with what was stated above. The Republican party is not a grass roots party. It is a top down hierarchy and the top is controlled by big money and big corporations. It is just not possible for them to do any soul searching. They look at this election as a setback and they may realize they need to change tactics but the policy aims will not change.

Also, near the top Bruce was spot on about the media.

Part of the media's rationale for covering the nonsense and lies -- when they _know_ it's nonsense and lies -- is that they've convinced themselves that it's important to observe how well a politician manages or handles the other side's nonsense and lies. So when stupidity like "death panels" is out there, they cover it because for them the story has become "how effectively can the White House control the message?" Quashing the lies becomes a political issue rather than simple truth and falsity. It's ridiculous, but it suits their emphasis on metapolitics and stagecraft and "message discipline" rather than policy.

You're living in a dreamworld. It's not about who is right and who is wrong. It's about who is good and who is bad. It's about us and them.This is true now and it was true after Watergate, when one American in four still believed that Nixon had been shafted by Congress and the media and that there would be a reckoning one day.

"...we're supposed to negotiate with them..."

That phrase should have been followed by question marks. This is what I've been saying since the campaigns began for the last election. After the 8yr Bush administration why would anyone even be listening to republicants...about anything. Like watching people get raging mad because Obama can't fix the republican disaster fast enough, that they begin demonizing him...I just think "My God, have these people lost their memories in just 6mos."

I also get upset with Obama's attempt to be bipartisan with the group that virtually ruined the nation. I'd like to tell the dems we voted overwhelmingly for YOU to govern not listen to those who brought us our current disaster...nor watch republican'ts hold the nation hostage by abusing the senate filibuster rule. It's our turn dems so get to it and ignore the fools who failed so miserably at governing.

Glad you posted this Steve Benen...it cannot be stated often enough...Republican'ts have made themselves irrelevant by 12yrs of total failure...yet the media still has them on TV every week to spout the same old tried and failed issues...as if they really didn't result in disaster.

Signs at town halls should read "Stop Listening to Failure" or "Can't Clean Up The Bush Disaster Fast Enough" "Republicants: No Return No Deposit"

Why are they still treated as credible???...$$$$.

Grassley alone proves that many Iowans have no memory and that he assumes they are stupid and ignorant that they will accept that death panel nonsense as truth. When he brags about stalling legislation for fun. He is acting like repubs did the last 12yrs and should be laughed out of the senate. Good Post.

I wish to live to see the day that a Democrat appears on one of the talking-head shows and accuses the host of conservative bias.

btw...break up the media monopoly. What can we honestly expect when the entire MSM is owned by 6 corporations...propaganda that will always support the corporate agenda. The very idea that weapons contractors should own the airwaves is just inviting disaster.

Media consolidation is destructive to a democracy and America is a perfect example. Only our government which is composed by and for us, is large enough to take on these corporations but if it doesn't get busy breaking up the monopolies it soon won't be.

The Obabma administration's failure to bring Bush and Cheney to justice has given Republicans an advantage. They do not have to defend against past failures. It's the elephant in the room neither side seems willing to talk about.

The media didn't have to invent the idea that Dems should be negotiating with the whole Republican Party - Democrats from Obama on down keep telling everyone that this is true. They also keep insisting that Republicans are negotiating in good faith. They also keep demanding that we look to the future, not the past (staving off criminal investigations is only part of that.)

Sure the media is failing, but when both parties insist that something is true, the media treat it as true and treat anyone who suggests otherwise as a nut.

The Democratic role in this is only part of the problem, but it's the one that activists have the most leverage to change. As long as we let Democrats use the media and Republicans as an excuse for not delivering, they have no reason to change.

Mainstream journalists will never be moved by criticisms that they are in the tank for Republicans or calls for "blogger ethics panels". In their hearts they know they are right because they are being Objective in telling Both Sides of the Story. The only way way to influence them is to acknowledge their vanity and ego. And attack it.

Call them the stupid, ignorant dupes that they are. The Republicans figured that out a long time ago and have been playing them ever since. Call them suckers. Remind them that journalism school is far easier to get admitted to than most of the most of the real disciplines; certainly economics. Note patronizingly that some J-school grad probably can't follow the logic or math involved in these issues. Maybe then, they will get off their ass and actually learn something for the first time in their lives.

People keep confusing what is said on various media outlets and what people believe. And people confuse what that die-hard GOP base believes and what the majority of people believe. And people keep confusing a single poll with trends of public opinion over the years.

The GOP and the Right Wing are only credible with about a quarter to a third of the American public. Their spokespeople can be on TV all day long and while the media may treat them with respect, and while there will always be interviews with "ordinary Americans" who agree with them.

Their ability to obstruct in Congress is based on some arcane rules of the Senate, not because they have popular support.

The majority of people in the country know exactly who the GOP is, and decided about five years ago that they don't want them running the country.

I predict that this situation will continue until the Dems really screw up, in a way that negatively effects the majority of people, AND the GOP offers a different kind of leadership.

- "No penance, no consequences, no self-reflection -- only the expectation that they be treated as a serious group with a credible agenda." -

As has been said many times above, it's worse than that.

The Republicans are being treated as if they are the - only - serious group out there, with an agenda that is not only credible, but widely popular.

As far as the MSM are concerned, the Republicans are still the natural party of government in the USA, and they always will be. All 2008 represented was a protest vote against the party unlucky enough to be in power when the world economy looked like it was collapsing, just like 2006 was a protest vote against the party unlucky enough to be in power when Americans got tired of a war in the Middle East. All perfectly understandable, but not important in the long term.

Because - as everyone in the MSM knows - America is a centre-right nation, and the Republicans are the party of this Real America.

So the future will turn out one of two ways. Either Obama will spend his political capital fixing the problems he inherited - in which case the electorate will calm down and vote Republican. Or he fails to fix the problems - in which case the electorate blames the Democrats and votes Republican.

So staying on the right side of the Republican Party is just common-sense for anyone looking to write about politics in the MSM. They're looking forward, not backwards.

And that is a real problem.

The MSM, and in particular its owners and the owners' corporate cronies, are creatures of the Reagan right. That's the place where the corporate profits are, they think. Fox, CNBC, Morning Joe, Lou Dobbs and numerous journalists and editorial boards are there to push the message. Obama was elected because the voters panicked. Now that the panic is over, it's back to 2003 in the media. Cheney's daughter is being pushed as serious political thinkers today. The MSM will soon start "reconsiderations and revisions" of the Bush years. Newt and Sarah will become the voices of reason, important political thinkers. Obama? He's an accident to the right wing media.

And remember the report by the group called Journalists Without Boarders who ranked the relative 'freedom of the press' for all countries on this planet: over 200. The U.S.A out of those 200 RANKED 54TH ! After places like Bosnia and Croatia. Within this let's remember what Bush's former press secretary, Scott McClellan, said about the media and Iraq: 'they were ACTIVELY COMPLICIT' in helping Bush and his goons get us into Iraq. One of the best examples of this Corporate Media's complicity was the infamous prime time 'news conference' by goon Bush just before he invaded Iraq. This was the 'news conference' in which he was preparing the country to do just that. And that 'news conference' was all scripted. The 'questions' from the 'reporters' were written by Bush's goons, given to the 'reporters' before hand, each reporter being selected by Bush's goons, and Bush 'rehearsed' the answers to these scripted questions all day long. The deception to the American public was so complete that during the actual 'news conference' other reporters who knew they would not be called upon actually raised their hands like in an actual news conference. Of course Bush called upon the preselected reporters with the questions they had been given to ask, and he provided the scripted answers to those pre-scripted questions. At one point he even, inadvertently, gave all this away when he inadvertently called upon one of the reporters waving his hand that was not supposed to be called upon saying something like 'uh, whoops, I am being scripted'. And guess who was the ringleader for the 'reporters' in this charade to the American public ? None other than the corporate pig called David Gregory. So much for 'freedom of the press'. It is all controlled by the Corporations. And of course pig Gregory works for General Electric who has made how many billions from the Iraq war ? So of course this is why the corporate media behaves in the way that Bruce Bartlett is speaking about.

We can blame the Publicans for refusing to recant their sins and seek our forgiveness; we can blame the media corporatocracy for continuing to recognize the buttered side of the bread by giving Publican lies a platform.

But when are we going to start blaming the Democratic administration for treating the Publicans as if they are what they're not - honest, loyal opposition? And When are we going to blame ourselves for not yet figuring out how to demand effectively that the Dems wake up and smell the coffee?

More sardonic than thou...

dr sardonicus: I wish to live to see the day that a Democrat appears on one of the talking-head shows and accuses the host of conservative bias.

Not me.
I can't stand the thought of having to stomach the humble apology he'd make the very next day...

I am truly baffled by this situation, as I'm sure you are.

I think it's pretty easy to explain. Right now, it looks like the worst fears of conservatives are all coming true. The stimulus package and healthcare reform initiatives following one after the other after the election of a liberal black president, are easily manipulated and characterized by the conservative media as "government takeovers". With that seed planted, it allowed them to play on the fear of Obama's scary black foreignness via the birther moverment. The situation lends itself easily to fear and propaganda, and the conservative talking heads are taking full advantage. That's how they are getting traction.

Larry O'Donnell called a Republican Rep. from Texas a "Liar".

The idiot from Texas was trying to out talk the time and Larry wouldn't let him and kept calling "Bullshit!"

Like a star in the sky.

That shining
star reappears
like a final
touch near a
vigorous cliff;
and always
remains, with
a little intention
in the care
of your sight.

Francesco Sinibaldi

If you want penance from Republicans, then bring them to trial, convict and sentence them. Otherwise this is an empty idea.

What's the Money Party have to say (that isn't already being said by the well paid shills)?

crickets chirping in the stillness...

You can't expect someone to give up a really good paying job over some silly abstract things like integrity or honesty, can you?

I'm thinking part of the problem is the press played a major role in enabling Bush/Cheney and this would come up if the Press revisited the Bush/Cheney regime. Anfd that would be embarrassing and bad for profits.

They are not conservatives they are Republicans.Taken as a whole their ideology more resembles,insert the F word here,and we all know it.To point out an occasional thoughtful intelligent person in their party as a conservative is meaningless,especially when they are some functionary with little power or influence.The big money behind their agenda could care less about democracy,fairness,justice or the greater good.It's been like that since at least Nixon and it won't change. It needs to be recognized what they truly are and be banished from our politics forever.

I think a strong argument can be made, not that the Republicans failed, but that they succeeded.

One pet theory of mine has been that the Rethugs are so hot to destroy the public education system because doing so will eventually provide them enough voters to maintain their "permanent majority".

You don't need an IQ of 140 to be able to call bullshit on the Rethug agenda. But you do need to be able to construct a logical, rational thought once in awhile. Unfortunately, thanks to the Rethugs trashing of the idea of "the public good" (or whatever), fewer and fewer people are able to do so.

It's between Bartlett and his former colleagues whether the GOP still stands by the Bush/Cheney approach to things. I don't care. But where is the media, what has become of it, that it can pass along utter falsehoods and deceptions as items or points of view that anyone is obliged to give a hearing? Bartlett speaks of this, to his credit, but this complete failure of the nation's media will, if it continues, do great damage to this country and its politics. An unchastened GOP continues to learn that its misrepresentations and inventions bring no consequences.

One problem is that a pervasive component of conservative mindset (often expressed by Limbaugh and both Cheneys) is that the Bush Administration failed at home and abroad mainly because it did not fully embrace ultra-right wing ideologies. In other words, rather than expressing remorse for going too far, they express regret that they did not go far enough.

I know it's a taboo suggestion, but a few of the most outrageous and irresponsible media organizations should be squelched by the FCC or whatever government organization enforces the requirement that they serve the public good. The relentless repetition of racist and sexist hate speech spewed by some radio and television "performers" that pose as reporters and pundits should be called out for what it is: a violation of the contract television and radio stations have with the public for use of the airwaves.

Call them on the carpet and confront them with recordings of their daily abuse of the privilege the public grants in permitting them to broadcast. I believe there's more than enough precedent to justify such action. Speech that is so hateful and incessant that it effectively damages respectful public discussion destroys democracy. It's long past time for review of the offenders; it's time for us to pull the plug on them.

I'm not saying that loudmouths and rabble-rousers shouldn't be permitted to spout off whatever venal, vile crap they want to. But it's not required of the government to empower them by granting use of public airwaves to broadcast it.

Why does Bruce Bartlett say, "I am truly baffled by this situation, as I'm sure you are."? Doesn't he appreciate how the Media are corrupted by the power of the corporate establishment? Steve should, and maybe does after all. It is not good for "our" thinkers and commentators to be naive like that.

The corporate establishment knows the Republican Party is the prime vehicle (but Democrats are often indulgent) for pushing that top-percentile-share graph upwards, and so must be supported and defended. (BTW, the minimum wage is one of the key methods for supporting adequate pay for employees, by shoring up the low end. Hence it was suppressed by Republicans and corpocrats, by being kept "the same" for years, and thus ever lower in real terms.)

I just finished listening to a great replay of Woodstock on NPR Out of the Box. Wow ... great stuff. May Woodstock Nation overcome the Savage Dittohead nation!

PS I indulge little variations of my name, perhaps confusing but no intent to deceive (readers qua readers at least.)

PS2: Howard upthread has one of the best points: if lots of Democrats starting saying directly that the Repubs were liars, then the media would have to report *on them saying that* and that would get attention. Even if the media whores couldn't say, whether the charges were true, they'd have to report on them being made - and that would get people thinking.

Thanks for this post of refreshing honesty from a conservative who articulates quite well the problems this country faces and explains what the Republicans must do to repair their party's tattered image. I suspect many more conservatives share Bartlett's views but are reluctant to speak out against the party line which unfortunately is dominated by lies.

"And the political mainstream seems to think this is sane."

I'm not sure I agree. I think it is the MEDIA mainstream that seems to think this is sane, and as we all know, the media mainstream now consist of four or five Very Big Corporations of America, who own Congress as well.

The fascists have already taken over and we're just now starting to perceive their machinations as this "death panel" crapola makes "mainstream" news day after day after day, even on such "liberal" stations as MSNBC.

Millions of Iraq War Protesters world wide? Americans relegated to wire pens blocks from the Republican Convention? Calling those pens "free speech zones, for crying out loud? I thought our whole country WAS a free speech zone, but no. Not a peep in the MSM. Where was the outrage? There wasn't any, because people didn't hear about this with the emphasis and disbelief the MSM should have had.

They control what we hear, and use the same BS mislabeling Orwell foresaw in 1984.

They're Heeeeerre.

I also find this overwhelmingly persuasive, although I probably would have agreed using a single syllable: Duh!

Nice work by the way getting this dialogue with Mr. Bartlett, and thanks for sharing it with us.

This is why I read Steve Benen.

I also think that anyone who voted for Bush in 2004 should lose the right to vote and be flown to Iraq to sweep the streets. But I'm vindictive.

I think a strong argument can be made, not that the Republicans failed, but that they succeeded.

Chris, I've been making that very argument, wherever and whenever I can. They broke the things they set out to break, enriched the people the set out to enrich. Exhibit A, to my untutored eye, is New Orleans. In the wake of Katrina, the government performed precisely as the Republicans have been saying for a generation that it should: It did nothing. And the price was paid by 'those people' - whether you want to label them so on the basis of race, or of class.

The mission really was accomplished.

Wendell Potter should be a household name like Steve wishes, not Katy Abram - and the reason it's that way, is the situation I previously described.

To see a good shot against anti-government silliness; again. see http://www.americablog.com/2009/08/i-am-american-conservative-shithead.html

And, "ditto" pardon the phrase, those upthread saying the Republicans actually succeeded - in doing what they wanted to do! Sure, they failed the public interest and our national well being, but that wasn't their goal to serve.

It is remarkable how many delusional people are on this site. In this fantasy world the media is a conservative tool. The "rich" don't pay their "fair share" even though (and I am using data from taxable year 2005 supplied by the IRS, for only now is the data sufficiently vetted to be useful), the top 1% of the nation's income
earners, of which there were 1.327 million (and it
required an income of just over $400 thousand to make it into this bracket) earned 21.8% of the nation's income but paid in 38.4% of the nation's taxes. The top 5% but not including the top 1%... of which there were 5.309 million, requiring an income of just over $152 thousand earned 15.4% of the nation's income but paid out 58.8% of the taxes. The top 50% of the nation's income earners... and this time I am including everyone from from 50% and above,(requiring income of just barely under $35,600) paid in 96.8% of all of the federal taxes while earning, by definition, only half of its income; that is, the bottom 50% of the nation's income earners paid in only 3.2% of the nation's federal taxes while making 50% of the nation's income. Half the people paid effectively all of the taxes; the other half effectively paid in nothing. During the Bush years the top earners paid a larger share of the total taxes than ever before.
Although the liberals can't stand us saying so, Bush was no conservative.
The writers say Bush was a moron because he ran huge deficits, but Obama is a genius for quadrupling Bush's deficit in 200 days. In this dream world there is a currently a free market in health care and, of course that's BAD. We need the government to come in and "fix" the health care system even though CBO says costs will skyrocket and every other government system in the world rations care. The feds have done such a great job keeping medicare and social security solvent that we should give them one more thing to tackle. Amusing stuff.

All comments about the MSM's failure to address this issue in an honest way, and always running to the spectacle is based on a belief that we still have a free press in this country. WE DON'T. With the consolidation of media that has happened in this country over recent years, and the corporate ownership of almost every outlet, we have the opposite of a free media.

There's some kind of saying about the control of information is the control of the people. And frankly, even internet blogs usually use information gathered from the MSM for their own stories. It's time for the pamphlets and tiny independent papers of years past. And organizing sanity via the internet as well. But we cannot count on the MSM to help us find and illuminate the truth, except for some rare instances.

When people like Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Michele Malkin, etc. are called "journalists," we are in trouble.

I watched Lawrence O'Donnell yesterday as he filled in for Chris Matthews on hardball. He was interviewing some Repub congressman and refused to accept the spin offered up instead of an honest answer. He finally called the guy on his obvious lies. The reupublican sputtered something about why MSNBC is in trouble. It was great. Andrea Mitchel, David Gregory take notes.

what is so hard about any of this? republicans pay penance - give me a break. the republican/conservative cabal has nothing to do with politics anymore. It has everything to do with manipulating the information and the public forum to enrich the rich, to maintain and increase the power of the plutocracy. They are totally enabled by the corporate media that denigrates everything democratic, pollutes and distorts the national dialogue so badly that reality and truth are unrecognizable. Anyone that doesn't think this is all on purpose and controlled is a fool - there is no other sane explanation for national insanity.

It all happens from the board rooms of the 5 corporate media manipulators of the information. America will never recover itself until Big Media is broken up or supplanted.

I like your arsonist comparison.

R.Milani- Look at the graph.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/even-more-gilded/

"but Obama is a genius for quadrupling Bush's deficit in 200 days."

No. He inherited it. Again, look at the graph:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/06/09/business/economy/20090610-leonhardt-graphic.html

You're either an idiot who doesn't pay attention or an idiot who's lying and thinks he can get away with it. Pick one.

On the the subject of the post itself: it's absurd.
Does the author or Bruce Bartlett have any memory of a childhood playground? Do you remember life once being fair? Do you remember there being a "ref" to work when the teacher wasn't around? In a world without teachers -and that's what adulthood is supposed to be- there are no "refs." Journalists aren't refs they're gossips and always have been. Do you remember the cowardly contempt you felt for losers who were always picked on? Or maybe you were a loser who was always picked on but who thinks adult life is supposed to be different. It isn't.

Nobody respects a teacher's pet; no one stands up for you if you don't stand up for yourself. The bitch-slap theory of politics doesn't work if there's no bitch to slap. Liberal geeks can always take their books and go home, and that's what they do. They make their money the same way republicans do. But working class white conservatives think they have powerful friends, when they don't; while rich liberals claim to be friends of the poor, while they aren't.
Clinton worked it as republican. Gingrich even admitted being frustrated because he'd stolen their playbook. So guess what? Republicans moved even more to the right, to keep the game moving. The move away from social spending began with Carter not with Reagan. Look it up.

If you want to fight for something, do it. But stop whining. And if you want to waste time commenting on a blog, get in an argument on a winger site. They're desperately in need of facts. Just like R. Milani

Before the members of a political party or any social grouping can engage in the sort of soul-searching and serious reappraisal that Bartlett counsels, that party must feel itself to be part of the larger community that rejected its ideas and believes -- as the American community did to the conservative movement, and the GOP that is its wholly-owned subsidiary, in 2006 and 2008.

Sadly -- and this is the part that has defined the conservative movement for generations -- its members do not feel part of the larger American community. That is why they are attracted to politics in the first place -- to protect rural traditional, largely Southern folkways from the "contamination" of the bigger, badder world.

Conservatives have reject that community and all it stands for. The conservative movement feels itself to be an entirely separate entity from the rest of us. That is why we keep hearing these primal screams by conservatives who "WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!!". That is why the conservative movement is so strong in a South that has always considered itself separate from the rest of the country, and is so so weak elsewhere. Southern conservative politics has always been tribal and separatist, and little has changed.

Bartlett's advice might resonate with professional Republicans who look at the mood of the country and recognize they must adjust the party's ideas accourdingly. But Bartlett is spitting into to wind if he expects today's radical right Republican Party to learn anything from the thumping it got from "Those Damned Yankees" the last two rounds, except that they need to fight dirtier and scream louder.

R. Milani, quit playing shell games by switching back and forth between "taxes" and "federal taxes," percentages of people and percentages of money, like no one's going to notice. We notice.

I'd like to chime in with all the people who have pointed out the unholy consequences of corporate control of the news media. The Republicans are their team. They may stray to the Dems when electoral victory is inescapable, but their true bitches are the Repubs. Also, Republicans are nasty assholes anytime their propaganda isn't treated as fact and they shamelessly harrass any reporter who tells the truth with accusations of liberal bias--an accusation which, in our corprate news media, is a potential career killer.

So what would you do if you were, say, Joe Klein: Speak truth to power and find yourself being harrassed and underpaid or treat Repbulicans as just as credible, if not more so, than Democrats to stay on the prestige and money gravy train?

It's horrifying indeed to think just how badly the Republicans are going to have to fuck up in order for this to change. 1929 anyone?

R. Milani: "It is remarkable how many delusional people are on this site.">

"R. Milani, party of one - R. Milani, party of one ..."

R. Milani: "In this fantasy world ..."

... of yours, Sarah Palin abandons her husband and family, and runs off with you to the good life in Ely, NV.

R. Milani "Although the liberals can't stand us saying so, Bush was no conservative."

And for that matter, neither are you -- which means that, aside from the rank dishonesty, you two also have lots of other things in common.

R. Milani "In this dream world ..."

... of yours, you're Rhett Butler, Michele Malkin is Scarlett O'Hara and the Obamas are the housen***ers.

R. Milani "Amusing stuff.

Indded. Thanks for playing. Now, go sell crazy someplace else.

They don't feel the need to do 'penance' because they believe they were CHOSEN BY GOD TO RULE, BY ANY MEANS, AND WITH NO ACCOUNTABILITY. When a group of mere mortals believe that way, everyone else must be viewed wrong and they must rationalize that they are blameless. They are the antithesis of the principles upon which this country was founded.

Someone on Olbermann (I think) the other day said that if Republicans are serious they shouldn't be shy about taking a pledge to eradicate the Veteran's Administration, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security --plain socialist evils.

We can easily draw up a pledge like that for them to take.

And while they're at it they can call for privatizing the police, the fire department and putting up turnstiles for pay-as-you-go sidewalks.

Chris nailed it, and R. Milani proves it: The GOP will never do "penance" for their failures. Not because they won't realize that their brand of conservativism was a failure -- because they don't think they were rightwing enough.

The top 1% have yet to own 99% of the wealth.

Only two-thirds of American businesses pay no taxes.

There are still public schools in which evolution is taught.

There are still public schools.

There is still public land.

There is still a semblance of academia.

There are still Muslims.

These people aren't just folks interested in using political power for a few bucks we're dealing with here, folks.

These are people interested in political power for the sake of political power.

They don't want an honest debate about ... well, anything, because each time that happens, they lose. That's the reason they pounded the media with the whole "liberal" label -- to get the compliant media we have now. You know, the one in which a comedian on basic cable does the most hard hitting interviews on TV.

I'd like to have faith something will change ... well, somehow. But Dems have proven they lack any balls whatsoever (or are beholden to the same interests, just from a different angle), the media has shown ZERO interest in doing its job, and every rightwing kook is given air time on national outlets.

Unless there's some sort of huge, dramatic, history-changing shift*, we're fucked.

(*Sadly, simply electing an African American with a middle name of "Hussein" won't be nearly enough.)

Assuming that conservatives can even feel shame, all you have to do when one of these blowhard Republicans starts going off about socialized medicine is to ask them where they went to college. Chances are, unless they are from blue state New England they went to some state school -- in other words, they owe their career to socialism. Then ask them to explain why government support for access to health care is any different from government support for access to higher education. Chances are they can't since both provide quality of life benefits for individuals which also serves a public purpose by making the country more productive. Truth is, there is absolutely no difference in principle between public higher education and public health care support. Health care, in fact, is even less socialistic because public university professors and employees of the state and no one is suggesting that the state do anything more in health care than provide insurance.

To quote an old Reagan and HW Bush official like Bruce Bartlett saying that the Republican Party should do penance for the misdeeds of George W. Bush is roughly equivalent to a Charles Manson follower condemning cults and mass murderers, while ignoring Manson's crimes.

Where is the penance for the misdeeds of Ronald Reagan, the heroic icon of the Republican Party? Where is the acknowledgment that it was Reagan who perfected the doctrine of "Cut and Run" developed by Richard Nixon in Vietnam, when he let Hezbollah bomb our Marine barracks and our Embassy in Lebamon with no retaliation?

Where is the recognition that Reagan helped strengthen the mad Ayatollahs throughout his regime, when he had the chance to destroy them when he first took office? Where is the recognition that the Great Communicator subverted the Constitution and broke the law? Or that he singlehandedly created Al Quaeda as a result of his paranoid obsession with Russia? That he destroyed half of Central America and was directly responsible for the rise of MS-13 and the Russian Mafia from local thugs to world-wide menaces and set back the American economy 20 years with "Voodoo economics"?

Where is the recognition that George HW Bush turned American troops into mercenary whores for his Saudi and Kuwaiti clients with his useless Gulf War I, or that the last Republican President to WIN a major war, as opposed to just starting one, was William McKinley?

No, it didn't start with George W and there's no reason to believe it will end there. George W may not have been a real conservative, but he was every inch a real Republican and fit right into the Nixon-Reagan-George HW Bush lineage. Until Republicans and Democrats and independents all realize and acknowledge that there will be no, penance and no accountability, just another round of corruption and cess pool politics masquerading as Traditional Values

I found the posts here interesting, inaccurate, but interesting. In interest of accuracy, please refrain from stating Republicans are fascist. This couldn't be further from the truth. Fascism is another word for Statism and Socialism. Fascist believe in the Government control of things like financial markets, means of production (automotive) and Health Care. Conservatives like the Government to be out of their way. Government interference with the financial markets (Barney Frank's banking regulations forcing sub prime loans) likely caused the recession, not Bush. And MSN is liberal, not conservative. Look at who the owners of the news organizations (IE GE) supported , Obama.

Talk about inaccuracy.

First of all, Fascism is inherently opposed to both Communism and Socialism (see Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany in World War II. Where Socialism and Communism seek to own everything in the name of the People, Fascism is a partnership between the government and big business interests and is a right wing, not left wing philosophy.

Secondly, it was not Barney Frank ofr anyone else forcing innocent lenders to make bad loans to minorities that brought down the financial system. It was the unregulated and insatiable greed of the lending industry and the financial services industries and a system that rewarded executives with multi-million dollar bonuses for losing billions of dollars on risky and nonsensical trades that made no sense except to generate those bonuses while the free market conservatives insisted that all was well and no government intervention was needed. Revisionist delusions about Ronald Reagan's wonderful free market policies that gutted our financial institutions got us where we are, not Barney Frank

Fascists believe that corporate interest groups should control the government for their own purposes via a cut-out tough guy figurehead who can organize populist sentiment to their own advantage by exploiting the baser natures of the common man.

Talk about inaccuracy.

First of all, Fascism is inherently opposed to both Communism and Socialism (see Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany in World War II. Where Socialism and Communism seek to own everything in the name of the People, Fascism is a partnership between the government and big business interests and is a right wing, not left wing philosophy.

Secondly, it was not Barney Frank ofr anyone else forcing innocent lenders to make bad loans to minorities that brought down the financial system. It was the unregulated and insatiable greed of the lending industry and the financial services industries and a system that rewarded executives with multi-million dollar bonuses for losing billions of dollars on risky and nonsensical trades that made no sense except to generate those bonuses while the free market conservatives insisted that all was well and no government intervention was needed. Revisionist delusions about Ronald Reagan's wonderful free market policies that gutted our financial institutions got us where we are, not Barney Frank

If Bush et. al. should do some sort of penance, what in the name of Heaven should Lyndon Johnson
do(or be doing somewhere right now as we post)?
We lost 4000+ of our finest in Iraq(out of which something good may still come) versus 50,000+ in Vietnam with nothing to show for it. In fact, I was just today talking with a refugee from that country who came here not long after the fall of that nation and I wish each and every one of you could spend 30 minutes talking to her.
Anyway, Mr. Johnson and his compatriots not only
gave us this divisive war but Medicare and Medicaid which will soon be broke and such things as the Food Stamp program for which we are expendind $60+ billion just this year alone.
In fact it is because of the Democrats that we now
have have 40+ Trillion dollars in accumulated debt and unfunded future obligations.
When you decide to bring the Dems into the penance equation Mr. Benen, then we can start talking...

I find it interesting that so many progressives are perplexed by this state of affairs. It's simple-- our political culture is controlled from top to bottom by entrenched economic interests. When a company like General Electric owns huge swaths of the public airwaves, there is clearly a problem. A big fucking problem.

General Electric does not own the public airwaves.

TV stations are licensed by the FCC,

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/decdoc/public_and_broadcasting.html#_Toc202587518

I find it interesting that so many progressives are perplexed by this state of affairs. It's simple-- our political culture is controlled from top to bottom by entrenched economic interests. When a company like General Electric owns huge swaths of the public airwaves, there is clearly a problem. A big fucking problem.
Posted by: gizmo on August 15, 2009 at 10:09 PM | PERMALINK*********************

Yep, I Am with you giz. GE, Murder-Ock, Dizney, Time-Warner, et al own it all. and the Dems let it happen, right under their noses. The repigs consolidated the media, and the Dems did basically nothing. Why no fight? No protest? No messages to the base? Nothing. They/we just let it happen. Remember when that guy was tased during the John Kerry speech? He screamed and pleaded, "Don't tase me bro!", but Kerry just let it happen instead of using his microphone to say "Unhand that man, he is only asking a question, Leave him alone!" But no, Kerry just watched and did nothing. Just as so many Dems have done while Rove and dickless have torn our precious republic to pieces. While the media has been consolidated and waivers have been granted to Murdoch and Co. Media consolidation has ruined our democracy, and the Dems just stood by and watched, and have made no attempt to change it. So, progressives, dont' act so surprised. There is nothing here that we couldn't have seen coming, yet our leaders did nothing. The question is, what will we do now? Get involved and make a difference as best we can? Or nothing, but bitch on a blog? Our choice ppl.

im suprised none of you realize that the mainstream media is in the pocket of the democratic party. perhaps you just dont want to accept the fact that even though your party has most of the advantages, the republicans still keep up with you. perhaps it's because people realize which party is the better one of the two once the democrats inevitably abuse thier power.

Steve

I wish the republican party had sane and smart people Bartlett instead of present liars and screamers.

A sensible article. I have just started following you.

When you decide to bring the Dems into the penance equation Mr. Benen, then we can start talking...
Posted by: Ge on August 15, 2009 at 9:48 PM | PERMALINK***********

Dude, quit talking out you ass. President Obama is spending to stimulate the economy and give ppl jobs, to help Americans who need health care and middle class folks who need a break. But you, you want to dig up a president from the frick'in 60's and start condemning and demanding penence! WTF!? If you want to talk about big government and waste, trillion of dollars in accumulated debt and unfunded future obligations, then why weren't you screaming at your hero Reagan, who "proved that deficits don't matter."? And how about bu$h/dickless? Massive spending and big government/big brother build-up, spying on American citizens with no warrant or legal authority, billions spent each MONTH on a war of choice based on lies. Where were you then, Mr. I- Can't-Stand-Gov't-Spending-My-Money? Crawl back in your stench filled hole. Hypocrite.

There is NO liberal media.
There is NO mainstream media.
There is NO quality media.

The reason that we will never see a Republican admission of guilt is that they are totally and completely oblivious to the world around them. For them, faith is all that there is, and their faith is in the bit about "reduce taxes, trickle down, reduce government interference in business, drill, baby, drill, ..." They blithely ignore the results of their behavior because in their hearts they know that there had to be some other cause because their faith is true.

The reason that the religious right is so deeply embedded in the Republican party is that both groups, the religious and the politically minded, have the same mindset where they are firmly attached to their dogma in the face of completely contradictory, irrefutable evidence. If anything, the contradictory evidence just makes them stronger adherents of their "faith" because it shows how strong their faith is if they believe what is obviously false.

The position of the President of the United States is clear. We need a good health coverage plan for each American. The two political parties need to find common ground. The industries that prevent this are the money power group who want only for themselves. This great country was built on freedom, and the ability to work hard. If the power of income is concentrated in 1% one percent of the population, 21% of the national income is concentrated in this group, we are in trouble!

To the extent that "W" committed political "sins" it was in his
acting more liberal than conservative with his
"No Child Left behind" and "Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit" indulgences.
So to a certain extent he can be compared to Lyndon Johnson with his interventionist foreign policy and over-exhuberant domestic social programs.

A few year ago, Democrats took impeachment off the table because Republicans threatened to shut down all legislation.
Earlier this year, Democrats said we needed to look forward, not rehash the past by making the Bush administration accountable, because Republicans would halt any progress in Congress.
The last few months, some Democrats seems to insist that we need bi-partisan cover for Health care reform, otherwise Republicans will filibuster and use any procedure possible to stall progress...

WHEN was the last time Republicans needed ANY excuse to obstruct progress?

WHEN are Democrats going to accept that you can't simply count on cooperation from Republicans in congress?

Democrats SHOULD have learned by know that IF:
1) they would have brought impeachment articles against Bush, and
2) they would have investigated the Bush administration fully, and
3) 'rammed' Health care reform through Congress...
Republicans would not have acted ANY different than they do now.

WOW... and Obama is supposed to be the smart one... Makes me wonder.

. . ."W" committed political "sins" it was in his
acting more liberal than conservative with his"No Child Left behind" and "Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit" indulgences.

Indulgences with no provisions to pay for them, very conservative, Republican kind of indulgences.

Because "Reagan proved deficits don't matter".

Well here's the thing.

The Republicans to whom you refer are mainly in congress. But congress has been under Dem control since 2007. So the failures which you allege have occurred are, as far as congress is concerned, Democrat ones.

Where is the penance for this?

A couple of comments late in the thread. First, bravo to Bruce Bartlett, a good man and the only conservative I respect. I'm all for Republican penance.

Second, the Democratic leadership has yet to figure out that Republicans and Democrats aren't playing from the same playbook. Democrats still think of government as "of, by and for the people" and by people they mean "all Americans"--without regard for race, class, sex, region, religion, region and so on. For Democrats, the government (of, by and for the people) has an important role to play in securing the common good and protecting the interests of the people against exploitation, corruption, fraud, and so on.

Republicans, by contrast, define "Americans" as white, heterosexual Christians, typically rural and primarily Southern, and they view themselves as a minority under assault by outsiders. Some of these white southern Christians have grown astonishingly rich through their control of oil and other natural resources, media conglomerates, land development, and so on and they are willing to fund the activities of the Republican party and "swiftboat" operations to increase and secure their wealth. Not surprisingly, Government "of, by and for" Americans as defined by Democrats is a big problem for Republicans since Republicans have zero interest in the common good and regard their ability to exploit, deceive, and con the public as their constitutional right.

The fact that Democrats have a knee-jerk response to work with all Americans, including reactionary Republicans, has become a weakness for Democrats. Democrats assume the norm of reciprocity--that is, if we treat Republicans nicely, they will treat Democrats nicely, tit for tat. This has been apparent since Bush seized the WH is 2000. However, at this point in the "game"--when it is clear that the Republican side is not going to reciprocate--the appropriate move for the Democrats is to punish the Republicans, and one just wonders if the Democratic leadership is ever going to learn. The flip side of penance is punishment; When people do wrong, they should feel remorse and do penance, and they should experience the natural consequences of their wrongdoing (punishment, public shunning, whatever). The Republicans are acting like psychopaths--no sense of wrongdoing, no remorse, even glee at what they have pulled off--and maybe it is too much to expect them to do penance if we victims of their wrongdoing refuse to hold them accountable. Me, I'm ready for a trial for war crimes, a crack-down on abuses of the public airwaves, and some anti-trust action against the financial markets.

A final comment is that people seem to assume that the main stream media are somehow failing in their responsibility to provide accurate information & perspective to the American electorate as a consequence of corporate ownership. But as long as Americans prefer model of advertiser-supported media, the only mission of media is to deliver audiences to advertisers. It's an entertainment model, not an education/public information model. It is a model that encourages both sensational, lazy and "he said-she said" reporting! Walter Cronkite was the exception, not the norm. So, as with so many things, we get the crap we are willing to pay for. A lot of us are opting out of this crap--hence the collapse of the newspaper industry, the decline in TV viewership for MSM news, the rise of comedians as our primary news source--but I don't think that's enough. I'd love to see a publicly funded option comparable to the BBC or CBC.

You Democrats got everything you wanted on January 20th and still you aren't happy. You appear to have gone insane; instead of enacting the Left's vision of utopia, Democrats continue to campaign against the Repubs. HEY YOU WON--nobody can stop you! Now quit whining about dissent (which you used to consider the highest form of patriotism)and get on with it. You have the majority, now dazzle the world with your brilliant agenda. Better hurry though, because in 2010 you are going to lose big.

It's funny, I know that this is silly but when I read Bruce bartlett's statement I thought about the last season of 24. "Raad the Penance statement!"
In a perfect world, everybody would be held to the same standards and given the same amout of respect. It's particularly sad that this is a problem in America. It's sad to see that the pen as a sword cutting right though our Constitution.

It's funny, I know that this is silly but when I read Bruce bartlett's statement I thought about the last season of 24. "Raad the Penance statement!"
In a perfect world, everybody would be held to the same standards and given the same amout of respect. It's particularly sad that this is a problem in America. It's sad to see the pen as a sword cutting right though our Constitution.

Yes, the leaderless GOP is an object of public ridicule and contempt, and have been on the losing end in the last two elections, but the media seem to treat them as respectable contestants.

R. Milani, your kind likes to harp on how much tax these people pay in order to draw attention away from how much they "make" (take) to start with. You evade the key trend of recent decades which is the share of income *going to* the rich is more and more all the time, because of: their increasing power, the mostly stagnant minimum wage, the fraudulent effective loophole of lower tax for capital gains, etc.

Anyway, those figures are greatly misleading because they don't take all taxes, and hidden taxes, into account. When that is done, the effective burden evens out a lot and even goes down for the very very rich.

@ Steve 5:29 AM, because of recent trends in Congressional rules it is hard to get anything done without supermajorities, and there are all kinds of tricks people can do in Committees etc. No "we" can't do what we want, and don't forget that the Democratic Party is essentially a lesser of two evils for most of us and not something wonderful. Maybe your fantasy is a projective, partisan wish-fulfillment (how you imagine a Republican victory?)

Bush: some of his sins can be considered as not authentically conservative. Yet most were directed to serving corporate interests through the makeup of regulations, the tax structure (e.g. capital gains reduction), anti-labor orientation, enabling media consolidation, the Iraq invasion and bungling of aftermath, lack of transparency and other matters of governance, etc. The claim "he wasn't conservative enough" does have some truth per the prism of critique from people like Ron Paul, but is at best a half-truth. (Beware the half-truths!)

BTW, Milani's key flub on the taxes issue was FICA. FICA is double even what it seems due to "employer contribution" which many think effectively cuts into employee pay rather than employer profits.

I'll stop at three in a row ...
To the "Bush wasn't really a conservative" folks, I have this to say:
Polls showed GW Bush very popular among Republicans/conservatives (no one else, of course) up into 2008, maybe still. So either or in combo,
1. Conservatives are too dumb to realize what is "conservative" and what isn't.
2. They are too blindly loyalist to care about their principles, even if understood.
3. They're too stupid to understand what "approve of" means in a poll (it does not mean, pick something as lesser of two evils.)

Put that in your poop and smoke it, Ge and the like.

aa: So the failures which you allege have occurred are, as far as congress is concerned, Democrat ones.

right...

thats' why the black guy won...

gop: any suckers left?

Neil B ♫ ♪ !: Put that in your poop and smoke it, Ge and the like.

"Go ahead and you smoke your lettuce." - GOP Rep. Steve Buyer's (IN) 6/12/09

It's not Democrat vs. Republican, or consevitives versus liberals...

It's the educated vs. the ignorant...

For example... watch this "conservatives" view of the world

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/32386333#3238633

He's protesting Health Care and he's been on disability for the last 4 years! What an ass...

This guy actually believe that the term "czar" for an appointed Secretary is the actual title for this person, instead of a media nickname... Come on, are you really that stupid?

This is what happens when you don't read anything, go anywhere or talk to any one not exactly like yourself. Get out of the basement already!

How do you even begin to talk to talk to some one as misinformed as this moron...you can't. and I'm afraid he's representational of the screaming/crying anti heath care protesters...

Politicians generally have no integrity. Republicans live by creating fear. Democrats live by waiting things out. The press are cowards controlled by global businessmen. The system won't change as long as politicians have to spend so much on campaining and lobbies are allowed to buy candidates.

Neither the Democrats nor Republicans have cared about the average American for several dozen elections. Look at the voting record that has ruint Medicare. The seniors worked to put the money there and four Democratic regimes took it out and used it. Neither party "has the time" and do not read the bills they pass as law, add fat pork by the ton, lie until they no longer can recognize a lie. I am not a Republican, Democrat, nor Independent. I am an AMERICAN and the politicians for the most part need to live in the poverty so they can relate. They need the same health system we have, live on Social Security and they would pass better laws. Odd how the Seniors do not get a cost of living increase but they did.

All we really need to know about which side most of us are on, and who is on the other side, is presented by the comment of "r.milani' the interloper from rushville, who opines on the how the 'rich' are paying most of the taxes. For those people it is all about them and their money, if they get to keep it they think the whole country will be better off; they really have convinced themselves of this myth, because it works, or they think it works for them. Milani wants to do away with progressive taxation and go back to the 19th century "golden" age. Golden for who?

Of course the rest of us understand what Bismarck and many successful statesman figured out (not that I am entirely fond of Bismarck): we are all in this together and that on the scale between community and individual rights, the US since Reagan has swung much to far to the 'right'.
Yes the MSM is beholden to the $$$, but the check on that money worship that used to hold it in reasonable equilibrium has failed. I'm not certain why but, I suspect it is that control has been gathered in too few hands.

The answer is fight on and fight harder. Liberal progressives have the better side for most of the population; we have numbers. We must improve our ability to use them.

A couple of especially motivate parasites on this thread.

Didn't we see some article about a fruitcake lobbying group offering to pay people to screw about on blog comments?

I bet there's more than one.

As I read the views posted here, I can't help but be amused and at the same time saddened. Every 4 or 8 years, the sides change, but the rederick remains the same. Until a valid 3rd party is allowed (yes, allowed) to exist, nothing will change. The same finger-pointing and name-calling will continue, as nothing gets accomplished. But most of us will just be content that we can loudly point out the mess made by others, as we stand waist-deep in a cesspool of our own making. Neither party gives a rat's behind about the American people, only about their personal and political futures.

It's amusing how both liberals and conservatives believe the media is slanted in the opposing direction.
It's amusing how, while both parties are spending us all into oblivion, we tear our clothing and wail at the opposing party doing so.
It's laughable how we are debating a (healthcare) bill that some claim has death panels and others say doesn't yet exist. Until it's released, shouldn't we ALL just shut up? Far more importantly, why in God's name would Congress vote on a(nother) bill whose contents are unknown or that doesn't yet exist? If it does exist, publish is so the American public can read it for themselves! Neither party wishes the American public to be informed. The "stimulus bill" is the perfect example.

John F. Kennedy (wasn't he a Democrat?) made the following statements in his inaugural speech in 1961. A speech, which is still lauded as one of the greatest orations in history-at that time, or any other. I'm sure both the current Democrat and Republican party leadership wishes these to be forgotten.

"...the belief that the rights of man come, not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God."

"...let every nation know, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

"...for only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed."

And my personal favorite:

"...ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

I had to go back and re-read the speech again today. In the light of the changes in this country and in this world over the past 50 years, it is still a masterpiece. It also shows how far we have fallen in those same 5 decades.

I'll remind you again that JFK was a Democrat. This sounds radically different from what Barak Hussein Obama espouses and from the trends from BOTH parties seen over the past several decades, where we now are only concerned with what the Federal Government can do for us. You may love entitlement programs, but they have failed, although they do purchase votes. All 50 States have rolled over for the cash dispensing Federal government.

I wonder what JFK would have done about the current political and economic crisis. I'll bet that personal responsibility would have been at the heart of his policy. I wonder what he would have done about the current illegal alien crisis, which cannot be disassociated from the economic and healthcare problems. This one isn't too hard to imagine.

I suspect that JFK rolled in his grave as our sitting President visited our foes and apologized for America taking care of it's own interests. I suspect that he has rolled in his grave each time we have downsized our military by treaty.

I'd encourage all to reread his words and ponder his final sentence:

"With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own."

(notice there were no apologies for invoking God)

Bradley, self-reliance and wanting to serve the USA are not incompatible with recognizing that our current health care "system" is not working well. That is what motivates wanting to do something, not some irrational delight in government. And don't you think that "real men" (and women) apologize when it is warranted instead of pretending they and theirs always did right?

BTW we here are quite able to critique Democrats as well as Republicans, but if you are an honest observer you will admit the latter have been so horrible they need to offer "penance." Finally, if a third party can appeal to enough people, let the best party win that deserves to. Yet some people here voted for Greens/Nader, but it just helped elect Bush.

cld, see http://www.politicsandtechnology.com/2007/07/make-no-mistake.html

Every president for the next fifty years will spend half his time apologizing for George Bush.

Bradley well written and oh so true. There are many wonderful, hard working, generous people with time and money in America. Unfortunately they stay the silent majority as it is hard to work up enthusiasm for "politicing" after working 8-12 hours a day to make a living. May GOD Bless all and may America turn back to Him before He totally turns his back on us and before we are truly a third world country thanks to our politicians forever giving our nation away. Ex: Bill Clinton when he sold the Boeing plane and ball bearing company to China. The ball bearing is one of the most important parts of a lot of our best weapons. This was brought to my attention recently. And yes, I prefer to believe in a God and His promises,die and find out that I was wrong then not to believe in Him and get to Heaven and find out I was wrong.

'Professional Blog Warriors',!

Hah! Nice work if you can get it.

Like Blackwater for those gits who used to hang out at the local comic book shop and insist that Marvel Comics was about Republicans until Lee and Kirby had to come out and say they're liberal Democrats.

Because "Reagan proved deficits don't matter".

So now the biggest student of Ronald Reagan is
...Barack Obama?

Two Images:
First image: Bill Clinton and his subhorts sitting in the WH eating pizza and guffawing as they go over FBI files of some of his political opponents.

Second Image:
Obama and his subhorts sitting in the WH discussing how they can "encourage" members of
the public to "rat out" his health care opponents.

While it would certainly be useful for the media to call the GOP out for their ongoing mendacity, the fact of the matter is that the Democrats shouldn't be relying on the media to do this. The Dems themselves should be out there exposing the lies of the GOP. Democratic leadership should be making it clear that while GOP input is welcome, we're not going to negotiate with a party that isn't interested in negotiating. So either come to the table with serious ideas, or we'll do it without you.

Right now the Republicans are getting away with it because the Dems are letting them. Time for the grown ups to get to work and leave the children to play in the yard.

For those of us who still have some moral fiber, the third rail of health care reform is the
inclusion/exclusion of abortion services along with a "conscience clause" for health care providers.
For those without, this is just a pebble in the road in front of Obama and the Dem's 16 wheeler
political machine.

I'm not a very political person, so I'm surely not going to use the proper terms and political jargon of an experienced political blogger. I just want to share some of my observances and frustrations. My biggest frustration is this: Why can't the American public THINK? For themselves? The conservatives pushed out so much blatant bullshit during the election it boggled my mind, and even though I am not, as I said, a political person, I could see right through it like it was Saran Wrap. And it was HATEFUL! Name calling, cruelly hateful. I received crap in my email every day from Republicans and Christians, trying to brainwash me with out-and-out lies and half truths. I never received anything like that from the Democratic side. Never! And whoever posted about being wary of half-truths was so right! They would take a small paragraph from a story, pass it off as another horrible TRUTH about Obama, then include that it was verified by Snopes.com. Now, most of us know that when you receive an outlandish story from someone in your email, you go to Snopes.com and check out to see if it is actually true or an urban legend before passing it on. Or you should! So they would email around a horrific "fact' about Obama they wanted everyone to be aware of, then say it was verified by Snopes, knowing most people would be to lazy..or trusting.. to actually look that up for themselves. Well, I wasn't too lazy. Or trusting. I looked them all up, and found that, although the Snopes article said the story was false, they could edit a snippet from it that looked like the article was true, and email it to all their feable-minded supporters, who would, in turn, panic and email it to all their feable-minded friends who would also panic and do the same, and so on and so on. Some of the stories were so outlandish that they were almost laughable, but the conservatives kept pumping them out, with no regard for the truth, just to get their way and their supporters would believe it like it was gospel, then set out to 'alert' the world. I have a friend who always believed these stories. I used to tell her, G***, stop and think. Would he (Obama) actually say such a stupid thing, even if it were true, knowing it would mean political suicide, right during an election where he is presently winning? Come on? No candidate would be that stupid! THINK! But no, someone from her church told her this so it was gospel, no matter how blatantly ridiculous it was. Someone had to invent these lies and start this email trail...is this their interpretation of the Republican mantra of family values?
Republican politics are all about getting your way, no matter how dishonest you have to be or what the consequences are for the country. They will sell us down the river if it will further their agenda. Another example of their 'family values". I was a republican at one time...now I'm an enlightened Ex-Republican. I bailed when I saw how they were willing to wash the country down the drain during the Clinton scandal just to get their way. They didnt care what happened to this country as long as they could discredit him. It was eye opening. We became the laughing stock of other nations. I was embarrassed. They should have been. I wanted no part of them any longer. I still don't.

Now, with this health care reform, which this country desperately needs, it starts all over again. They grab one fact, the most popular being that people will have to wait for elaborate procedures, and run with it. No one takes into consideration the fact that this isn't just about elaborate procedures like heart transplants. It's about the everyday emergencies that American families face..broken bones, influenzas, accidents, diseases, everyday problems that need to be treated and that the average family can't afford. Being able to walk into a doctor or hospital and receive treatment and then walk out without a bill is an amazingly wonderful priviledge that other countries give their people, and ours does not. Most people can't afford health insurance...the premiums are impossible. Even my blue cross insurance is basically crap. I had to have physical therapy and was told it was 'covered'. Then I was presented with a $1300 bill for co-pay! Let's give that to the average family with children with one or more parents out of work and see if they can pay it. But the Republicans completely ignore that scenario, and keep concentrating on "if you need a heart transplant, you'll have to wait to get one." Panic, panic, panic...don't let them pass this! Let's keep this benefit from the people who really need it on the offchance you might have to wait for a heart. Do the 'family value' people ever stop to think about who might really be behind all this anti health care propoganda? Obviously not.

And, while I'm venting.. I'm really sick of hearing Republicans blame our deficits on the billions spent on programs like medicare, medicade, food stamps, social security, etc. These are programs to help our own people! What better way to spend the money taken from the people, then on the people? Am I missing something here?

Well, I'm rambling. Time to quit before I embarrass myself. Maybe it's too late. :-) I just want the American people to think. Look for the real reason behind something. You may not like the answer, but at least you'll know the truth instead of blinding accepting everything shoved down your throats by your party. Believe me, they arent interested in your welfare..only their own.

The only way out of the present economic crisis is deficit spending.

An economic crisis brought on by Republicans controlling every part of the national conversation on every issue for the past thirty years, leading to the worst, most ridiculous excesses under George Bush.

Even the easily confused Republicans know this, they just prefer being confused and sharing.

Without confusion, who would they be? Just another drunk with nothing to say who won't shut up. But confusion, now that's something they can work with!

Ummm just a thought. If the Democrats call the Republicans liars and they are in the same liepod doesn't that make ALL of the Democrats and Republicans just a pod of liars? Whether you are Democrat or Republican go look at their voting records, read what they voted for and against. We need a "washout" in the Congress and Senate and "Weed out" ALL the liars. Ohhh that's right there wouldn't be many Democrats or Republicans left to give our country the final escort out of the "give America away" program.

"The only way out of the present economic crisis is deficit spending". Are you a student of Reagan too?

Well, Mr. Bush in his last year had a $400+ billion dollar deficit. In your view was he doing something right/ just not enough?

Mr Obama: "You want to see deficit spending? I'll
show you deficit spending. I'll see you and I'll raise you."

To the tune of 4 times Mr. Bush's last year deficit.

Look, I don't cast any subjective judgement toward
anyone. Presidents do what they think is best coming
from whatever social, moral,spiritual, intellectual background they come from.
My judgement toward their policies is objective.

Well, professional blog warrior,

We know everything Mr. Bush did was corrupt, so no, nothing he did was right. That deficit wasn't spent on targetted stimulus, he was spending on unfunded mandates and fruitcake adventures in foreign countries while cutting the taxes and federal regulations on the people who were causing and exploiting the crisis in the first place.

His policies were as if carefully contrived to make the crisis worse than it ever could have been without him.

Why would any Working or Middle Class American be baffled by the current situation in these United States? Clearly the actions of the people or lack their of has put us in the subservient place we occupy. The Banks own everything and use the term "Homeowner" when clearly 90% of Americans are just a bunch of home owers. If Americans owned their home they would not be getting foreclosed on. The Patriot Act is not patriotic, "Child Support" is a short term loan to the government which sits on it for a few weeks collecting interest that belongs to children, Freedom of Information Act ya right and National Health Care Plan means reducing us to welfare cases and putting idiots in charge of our lives. Time to move to another country.

cld

"Just another drunk with nothing to say who won't shut up" - why would the Republicans ever want to be like Ted Kennedy?

As was mentioned earlier, both parties have lost sight of their purpose, as outlined in the Constitution. When did we stop calling them "public servants" and start calling them "leaders" Following their lead, we drove off the cliff 20 years ago, just haven't hit bottom yet. I'd rather follow a man/woman who is blind and deaf... Oh wait - never mind, we're doing that now.

Think of a homeless person lying in the gutter.

That's what Republicans think is right with America. That's what they're working for.

"This is what happens when you don't ...........talk to any one not exactly like yourself. .........."

I wish I had said this! :-)

Christine . . . yes your post was lengthy, but I read every word of it . . . twice. I could have written it myself. You go, girl!!

"Think of a homeless person lying in the gutter." Then think of the federal government spending a trillion dollars (that's 1,000,000,000,000) to pick him up, bathe, clothe and feed him/her, buy a house, car, Harley Davidson motorcycle, give him/her a job that was taken away from someone who earned it, after which he/she goes back and lies down in the gutter again. How many times do you wish to repeat this?

Steve, Thanks for this article. I kept thinking about the ideas you shared and felt compelled to share some related thoughts from a different angle.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/silviaspence/gGM73f

A trillion dollars for one guy!

If only there was some private company that could do it for twice that. . .

BrS, do you have actual data about how many people that are pulled up from that go back? Some I'm sure, but most of them put out some good work. It's better than giving tax credits to stock speculators and house flippers who create no new utility at all.

Think of a homeless person lying in the gutter.

That's what Republicans think is right with America. That's what they're working for.

WEll that's one person the "Cash for Clunkers" won't do any good.

Let's see now...is this person in the gutter because an illegal immigrant took his job?

Is this person homeless because the government would rather spend money helping people buy a new car who do already have home to live in rather than using the cash to help get people like this off the street?

There was an article a couple of months ago about how public housing, entirely free public housing, for chronic drunks (in Seattle, I think) was found to be less costly for society than just letting them lay wherever they passed out, or traditional homeless shelters.

The people in these projects continued as drunks, but over the course of several years they ended up self-stabilized and many returned to society.

It was shown to work better than any other solution.

Pretty much zero media attention.

There is a problem of lack of memory or remorse in this country. Unfortunately the blame game most of you and the author of this article are pushing is not the solution.

Did GW Bush get us into a war we did not belong in? Yes.
Did any Democrat oppose the war in Iraq when it started? No.

The insurance companies, pharmacuetical companies, news agencies, and many other large businesses have contributed far more money and support to the Democrats then the Republicans and yet all of you seem to think these big businesses are evil and in league with the Repbulicans.

Which side of the healthcare debate is recieving $150mil in advertising support from the profit based Pharma? The Obama administration.

I am personally terrified of what closed door deals the current administration has made with these large profit driven companies to make them support someone who has consistency called them evil and one of the problems with the health care system. What is good for Pharma and insurance companies has rarely if ever been proven to be good for the average american.

Is a closed door secret meeting to negoitiate support for a bill between the White House and big businesses transparent and open government as promised in the campaign pledge? No.

The massive debt that continues to be blamed on the last administration is actually based on last years bailout attempts to slow the recession. Prior to that Bush had also had the lowest deficit in a long time. History has proven that war is good for the economy but that the aftermath of war spending hurts the economy. Simply put when the government slows down buying military equipment and supplies it directly hurts the U.S. economy.

There was no talk of pennace after the Clinton administration and his impeachment.

Did any Democrat oppose the war in Iraq when it started? No. I don't know if they publicly opposed it once already begun (political suicide, don't expect miracles) but many first argued against, and then did vote against it. Military spending's benefit is a form of the "broken window fallacy." It does stimulate activity, but the effort isn't "consumed" but is destroyed and used to destroy. And if military spending helps the economy, then consumer stimulation has to help more because the *direct* result of the stimulation is extra real utility for the consumer.

Ge, odd that you should complain about the CfC program. That stimulates the sort of real economy that you should like, instead of being given directly to those you consider worthless. So which do you believe?

Because Bill Clinton did nothing that would have hurt or injured anyone else.

There was no talk of penance or legal repercussions at all for Ken Starr for illegally leaking every last bit of grand jury testimony that would make the Clintons look bad.

'Last years' attempt to slow the recession' is better described as 'last year's attempt to fund Republican Christmas bonuses.'

'George Bush had the lowest deficit in a long time'?

Now I know someone is paying you to say that.

ridiculous.
short memories.
Clinton's fabled boom economy was busting when Bush took office, were the Dems ever taken to task for that? And by your logic, 9/11 was a Clinton failure of policy. The Dems didn't "do penance" for that.

I don't see Bush has anything to "do penance" for. He was _not_ a failure. He brought democracy to the Arabs, however imperfect it is at the moment, it is historic and he is the first president to truly make a difference for the good in the Middle East. The economic bust was due to libs like Barney Frank insisting that poor people who couldn't afford it be given loans, which greedy bankers were happy to play along with until the house of cards came down.

Its the Dems who are not being taken to task. And it's just laughable that the MSM is deferring to the GOP based on the "death panels". They aren't. It's resonating, that's all. It's a statistical fact that Obama has always gotten a free ride from the media. So give me a hankie to wipe your tears about how unfair it all is.

Obama is a blessing to the GOP though, because he's reminding the nation how badly they hate far-left policies. Like Clinton, he's over-reaching and he's going to hand the Congress back to the GOP. He might even get himself re-elected, but he will destroy the Dem dominance they've worked so hard to build, because much like Clinton, he's all about #1, not the party.

I don't consider anybody worthless. I was trying to make the liberals argument for them (OK, with
a little bit of sarcasm). The CFC is an example of the government trying to do something halfway right(in a stimulative way). However, like too many of these types of government programs it has that "you won the lottery" feel to it.
I know someone right now who has 2001 Nissan but
they are not eligible because the vehicle (when it was new and even now still) gets too good a gas mileage to qualify.
How many people are out here who would be willing to cash in their Japanese car for an American one? If they are going to do it then it
will have to be without government assistance.

That was the dot com bubble that was contracting which the Republicans covered up by deregulating the mortgage-lending market almost completely. They 'fixed' a market correction by intentionally imbalancing it further.

George Bush --super-genius!

Six years ago, when the Bush administration proposed much tighter regulation of the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Barney Frank was adamant: "these two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis." When the White House warned of "systemic risk for our financial system" unless the mortgage giants were curbed, Frank complained that the administration was more concerned about financial safety than about housing.
After the near collapse of the financial markets,
Frank declared: "The private sector got us into this mess." Well, give the congressman points for gall. Wall Street and private lenders have plenty to answer for, but it was Washington and the political class that are to blame. If Frank is looking for a culprit, he need only look at himself.

Not only himself, plenty were at fault and the Repubs pushed repeal of Sarbannes-Oxley. But we despise it when Dems are complicit in covering for the wealthy, we don't love them for it the way dittoheads admire Repubs.

And given the decades long history of Republican attempts to destroy any governmental good not directed exclusively at the priveleged classes, who could blame him?

There is no historical reason at all to think any proposal from a Republican administration could ever have been made in good faith and the part of that proposal to eliminate the Federal appointment of governors to the boards of those companies could never be seen as anything but Republicans trying to weasel out of responsibility for anything yet again.

If Republicans were negotiating in good faith, where was the oversight of AIG and their convoluted pig-in-a-poke credit default swaps, which were the instrument that tie it all together and dragged the whole thing down at once?

If you try to blame Barney Frank for disbelieving Republican good faith, you have only Republicans to blame for that.

Republican talk of 'reform' has universally been a twisted way to institutionalize yet more corruption.

Trying to replace the directors of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that are appointed by the President with figures from an office within the Treasury Department, employees, technically, of the Treasury, confuses the distinction between public and private sectors, which is a feature of fascist economics.

It lowers the profile of the directors to just some kind of apparatchiks, wholly controlled by the party in power.

And why would Barney Frank object to that?

Who do you think those directors appointed from within a Treasury agency would have been? I'd bet they'd have been some kind of lobbyists for mortgage-lending companies or financial swindler giants like AIG.

If the directors are appointed by the President they must at least be people of sufficient personal standing to merit White House attention, but if they are just some schnooks, --well, you can buy just some schnook.

Which brings us back to the point where Republicans have a lot to apologize for.

The Republicans don't think consequences apply to them. Why? They're Baby Boomers, too, aren't they? The entire generational cohort was brought up to believe they could do no wrong -- not just those who turned out to be liberals. The ingrained narcissism and arrogance ("self-esteem"; remember?) can be seen at both ends of our political spectrum as well as in the Great Corporate Middle.

Ge: Well, Mr. Bush in his last year had a $400+ billion dollar deficit. In your view was he doing something right/ just not enough?

Would you mind telling us why you did not include the $700-billion Troubled Assets bill, which was proposed by the Bush Administration's Treasury Secretary Paulson, passed into law in October 2008 during the Bush Administration, and signed by President George W. Bush, as part of the 2008 deficit?

w. kiernan is right...

many forget...

the current fiscal year with its huge deficit began last year...

with 3.5-months under g.w. bush...

gop: calendar-impaired...for freedom!

The political media in DC have internalized the belief that Republicans are responsible adults and that Democrats are the naive teens who just don't know what it's like for the grown ups.

GOP politicians and conservative commentators can literally say anything, true or false, even blatantly offensive, and still get seated at the head of the table, and Jr. will have to apologize for hanging out with his pot smoking buddies before being allowed to join the discussion.

This will not change as long as the networks and cable channels are owned by massive corporations.

Penance for what exactly?

Hey, I read a lot of blogs on a daily basis and for the most part, people lack substance but, I just wanted to make a quick comment to say GREAT blog!.....I"ll be checking in on a regularly now....Keep up the good work! :)

Great story you got here. It would be great to read more about that topic.

My favourite way to revenge a girlfriend for cheating on me is to meat with sweet escort ladies from Escort. This escort industry is greatly in demand in London.

Cool story as for me. It would be great to read something more concerning this matter.

Cool post you got here. It would be great to read more concerning that matter.

Hello
Sorry, but:

Badly need your help. Men are equal; it is not birth but virtue that makes the difference. Help me! Help to find sites on the: Hampton wall clock. I found only this - custom printed wall clock. Wall clock, advertising who has people about holidays should seek me just. Wall clock, mancassola, an individual mystery, did 15 voltage of the skin. :o Thanks in advance. Imogene from Mexico.

Nice site. Maybe you should try to monetize it with
http://tiny.cc/05mrc
They do have 40 days cookie duration and they pay 10-15% commisions. They'll match ads based on search query of your visitors and display relevant ads on you blog.

Cool blog. Maybe you should try to monetize it with
http://tiny.cc/05mrc
They do have 40 days cookie duration and they pay 10-15% commisions. They'll match ads based on search query of your visitors and display relevant ads on you blog.

A jest may get country over a peacock but instead demonize the stagnate

Ah yes, death panels.

Why is it that practically nobody in the media - and _definitely_ nobody in the MSM - can bring themselves to call Sarah Palin exactly what she is: a baldfaced, despicable LIAR???

She is utterly beneath contempt.