I am not opposed to having more conservative members of the democrats. what i am opposed to is having conservative members of the democrats who act like republicans and who are liars like ross. can we primary him? all i ask is for an intellectually honest blue dog.

Good lord. I f*cking hate these people. Between Sebelius' backtracking and Ross and Conrad, it's no wonder why the Dems are viewed as the sissy party. Their idea of strong negotiations is taking their ass raping without lube.

And then there's this, from Senator "Miz Blank" Blanche Lincoln: "Senator Lincoln took questions. When encouraged to support a "public option" she replied "We cannot afford it." She then used the Post Office as an example of too much subsidy and how Medicare is not breaking even."

I repeat from the previous thread below:
Might I again suggest the nuclear option? As in, hell no we're not going to accept a bill or new law that REQUIRES us to do business with a for-profit insurer? As in, MAKE ME BUY IT, MF.

If enough healthy people simply refuse to accept and pay for private insurance coverage, these A-holes in Congress can sit around yanking their puds all the live-long day making laws to "protect" the private insurers - it's not going to make a tinker's damn of a difference if we all just STOP PAYING them and drive them out of business. How long do you think they'd survive en masse cancellations of policies? 3 months? 6 months? Maybe limp along for a full year?

And then they - the biggest barrier to doing something that ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE - will be out of the way.

Fully 80% of insured people do not file claims on their medical insurance in any given year. So while we wait for the naysayers to weigh in on how this is just an unworkable idea, let me just point out that if everyone drops their coverage en masse and bankrolls the money they've been paying into premiums, we could care for our own through collective action until the dust clears.

I don't know about you, but there's just no damn way I'm going to accept being told that I am under mandate of law to do business with a bunch of thieves. It's bad enough that right now they systematically defraud their customers and the only alternative to them is to go without and be one illness or accident away from bankruptcy - but hell, they drive about 600,000 of us bankrupt each year as is - people who have been PAYING for their crap "coverage". Goddamn it, people, are we mice or men? We're not talking about dragging people to the guillotine here - we're talking about simply NOT GIVING THEM OUR MONEY. How hard is that?

How about let's stop counting on a bunch of corporate tools to fix this bitch, and let's fix it ourselves - by driving the bloodsuckers out of business. Yes, we can.

It's a Sunday, but I've been hammering my Senators and Representative, as well as the White House and the DNC this afternoon via email regarding the Democrats collective failure and weakness regarding health care legislation. I suggest everyone who cares to do likewise.

LET THE LIBERAL BLITZKREIG BEGIN!!!!!

There is a long tradition of OMB budget proposals going straight into the shredder when received on capitol hill. Clinton had his priorities, the Congress didn't care.

The same thing will happen with the Finance committee proposal. It will go straight into the shredder as soon as it is voted out of committee - if it comes out of the committee at all.

There are 23 committee members, it takes 12 to get a majority. It seems highly unlikely that all the 3 Republican members of the gang of six will vote for their proposal.

You can be pretty sure that the ten democrats who have been cut out of this process have their own proposal to put on the table. Ten is more than six.

Baucus looks set to loose his chair over his behavior in this committee. He will certainly be facing a primary challenge. Better to have 59 senators, than give a chair to a de-facto Republican.

At the end of the day the SENATE finance committee cannot make revenue proposals in any case, they have to originate in the house.

"I will never vote for a bill to kill old people, period." Ross said, continuing: "Man, I'm a humongous fucking retard."

"I can tell you, I've laid down my set of principles, so I will not force government-run health care on anyone. If there ever is government-run health care..... I will never vote for a bill to kill old people, period."

Luckily, old people already have Medicare (government-run health care, dumbass), which you would have voted against if you had been in office in the 1960s. It's younger people who aren't old enough for Medicare and can't afford health insurance or can't get it because of a pre-existing condition that you're killing because of your god-damned "principles".

"If there ever is government-run health care, the first ones to sign up should be the president and every member of Congress, including myself."

Doesn't the President already get government medical care from the military, and don't members of Congress often get care at government/military facilities?

Makes you wonder just what the *President's* position is, doesn't it? Because, every time we want to step a tad on the arses of the asses like Ross -- whether through MoveOn ads or primary challenges -- Obama says "don't touch them; they're ours". Like hell they are! Not mine, at any rate.

ross is pathetic-WHO WILL PRIMARY HIM NORTH CAROLINA!!!!

The President and Congress are already getting government run healthcare. Make him pay for his.

"Why, with a Democratic president, and large Democratic majorities in both chambers, would the final bill reflect the wishes demands of these six? "

Because, ultimately, only 22% of Americans self-identify as "liberal". America is a center-right nation. Obama was elected on a moderate, non-partisan pragmatist promise, not on a far-left one.

That's reality. Suck it up.

How did Ross and crew get into that Committee? Who is responsible, esp. behind the scenes? We should find out and look for redress and penalties in future elections etc.

What we really need in this country is mental health reform.

Ross was actually misquoted. The true statement reads:

"I will never vote for a bill to kill old people, unless, of course, Walmart can profit from their deaths."

This Ross asshole is absolutely right. If the government offers a government run health insurance to the people, the President and congress should also be willing to "sign up". And since they already are and have been, lets now offer the same plan to the citizenry. This is what Obama campaigned on all along.

Conservatism, be it from a democrat or republican, should not mean dead, sick and bankrupt for rich white people.

Another problem,

don't call them 'crazy'.

They think crazy makes them sound like fun.

Jennifer: "...How about let's stop counting on a bunch of corporate tools to fix this bitch, and let's fix it ourselves - by driving the bloodsuckers out of business. Yes, we can."

I would love it! Actually, I've considered a similar boycott movement regarding both insurance and credit cards. In my credit card scenario, they would be picked off one by one, starting with the most exploitative company. Everyone would drop that card, then we'd move on to the next company, eventually bringing that part of their businesses down. Seems a bit easier to pull off with the cards, however. I don't know how people would feel about deliberately boycotting insurance-?

Jesus Christ. This is me with my jaw literally dropping when I read that quote.

I'm Canadian. I have options. You poor, poor fuckers.

And calling them 'teabaggers' just confuses them.

Call them dirt.

Sure they'll complain about it. That's the point.

Sure some of them are just confused. This will un-confuse them.

They're dirt.

And if you call them 'crazy', they'll start imagining something like 'yeah I'm crazy like a Fox --Fox News!, heh heh heh'. . .

So,

so they will understand,

call them dirt.

Maybe call them useful idots instead of tea baggers. It would be more accurate

We need to either start a progressive party or just stay home and let things get as bad as they're going to get. We misplaced our trust in a Democratic majority.

They ARE the sissy party, Justin.

north meteorological dimming broadly

So your basic Blue Dog position is
Let the women die
Let the heirs decide when the old peeps die
Better that everyone die than to have Government health care

Gotcha.

I already cancelled my Bank of America cards. Then I cancelled Discover.
Right now I have two cards, 1 for business, 1 for personal stuff.
I got them through my credit union. I never carry a balance if I can help it.

I would love to cancel my health insurance policy, but I'd never get another one on the "free market." So, unless I am willing to go uninsured for the next 15 years until I hit Medicare age...I'm f@#)ed.

I hate the idea that the public option will be dropped, but if there is some serious regulation on health insurance companies, I will definitely start shopping around.

I have a question. Why can't progressives start a non-profit health care insurance program that is available to everyone in every state? George Soros...will you give us the seed money?

Jennifer--
Blanche Lincoln thinks the Post Office is subsidized? Damn, that's ignorant. Willfully ignorant, that is.

I'm with Veracia, I have been emailing all day, I think it is time we all got mad and did the same, especially to those blue dogs, they are traitors to the cause. I also could not resist sending a snarky email to Grassley's office offering sympathy for his illness in not remembering what he said from one day to the next and running around clutching Beck's book. I said I hoped he would return to private life and make a full recovery, so as not to have his plug pulled.

P.S. I agree everyone above. What Steve is reporting, and all the similar stuff heard recently, is just appalling. It's time for Mr. Coflict Resolution Consensus Guy to kick some ass LBJ style.

the post office would have no problems being in the black if they were not forced to serve rural areas and such that are not profitable i.e. red states and pockets of ignorance.

I don't know how people would feel about deliberately boycotting insurance-?

Varecia - that's what they count on, always - our fear of what might happen if we cancel. For most of us, here's what would happen: we'd end up at the end of the year with more money in our pockets and with the corpses of once proud titans of the insurance industry littering the landscape. That's because as I said, fully 80% of insured people file no claims in any given year. For those 80%, they've just saved whatever they normally spend on premiums. For the other 20% who do file claims, the insurers are going to cut something like 5% or more of them through recission anyway (they love to throw out their "only .5% of our customers get screwed by us through recission" statistic, but every one of them is out of that 20% who file claims) - and the majority of the rest of that 20% are going to be screwed in ways large and small by their insurer refusing to cover this that or the other. I wouldn't recommend anyone with a chronic condition to cancel out - just the healthy folks. Collectively we can cover their asses if something happens in the few months it takes to kill the insurers.

I'm serious - if you want to see a bunch of insurance executives high-tailing it to Congress to DEMAND the competition of a public option, this is the only way you'll ever see it - that month when the first 10 or 20 million cancellation of policy notices come in.

Jennifer:

'If enough healthy people simply refuse to accept and pay for private insurance coverage, these A-holes in Congress can sit around yanking their puds all the live-long day making laws to "protect" the private insurers - it's not going to make a tinker's damn of a difference if we all just STOP PAYING them and drive them out of business.'

That's a long-term nuclear option, but it will take a national effort and at least months to come to fruition. We need to let them know NOW that reform with no public plan is no reform at all! Join in a national general strike for health care September 8-9. Everyone who's for the public option or single payer, let's SHUT DOWN the economy--don't go to work or buy anything for 48 hours--to show them we demand that they take the action we elected them to take. Everybody! Everywhere! General Strike for Health Care!

I have a theory, perhaps incorrect but I think Obama is a smart politician, I think perhaps the hesitation we are seeing on the part of his HHS secretary is for a purpose. Could it be that he wants the left to rise up and deluge the senators representing them with phone calls emails etc in order to rally the troops and put some spine back into the wavering ones. Just a theory!

Ross: "I can tell you, I've laid down my set of principles, so I will not force government-run health care on anyone."

Who has proposed we do ?

"If there ever is government-run health care, the first ones to sign up should be the president and every member of Congress, including myself."

Ah, federal Senators and Representatives already have a Healthcare Exchange where they can choose among numerous for-profit private-sector plans, non-profit private-sector plans, and a government-run plan.

BTW, the Progressive Caucus is larger than the Blue Dog Caucus.

What an asshole. Won't support a bill to kill old people??? Where is such a bill. when and where has such a bill been introduced mush less even conceived.

I won't vote for a bill that kills sailors either, or children or republicans. A class act isn't he. These people must get elected by keeping their mouths shut on what and how they really think. Feeding the fear mongering propaganda and lies talking about a bill or proposals that don't even exist. This isn't about HC anymore...it's about demonizing the gov and especially democrats. What a slime dog. I, for one, will never forget that he made such a statement which shows me he is never to be taken seriously again. And let me guess...no one just came out and said "you don't know what you're talking about do you. Why would you even suggest anyone anywhere is proposing such a bill?"

The Senate was always the questionable place since the Senators are largely the tools of the large corporations. They own them as completely as they did when the Senators were appointed by State legislatures. Is there a direct correlation between the extent to which the Senate is owned by Big Business and the wealth gap?
The real question as far as health reform is concerned is whether the House will back reform without a public option. And will they prohibit for-profit insurance companies if they forego the public option. It seems it should be one or the other. Either a public option or an across-the-board prohibition on for-profit insurance companies involved in health care payments as well as a prohibition on insurance bureaucrats making any decisions about payments for health care or termination of coverage.

You write: "The leading Blue Dog on health care tells a national television audience that he won't support a bill "to kill old people."

Of course not. Neither will I. Neither will you.

Duh.

Righto, and to sharpen the point by Toutatis:
The Southern States have so much influence in our Government because the South is the most corporation friendly: low-wage, low-union, low-regulation; full of people easily driven against their best practical interests by appeals to religious and cultural hot buttons.

BTW your handle reminds me, Congress should fund that few hundred mill to watch for close-zipping asteroids. But right now I am more uneasy about Hurricane Bill forming and maybe headed this way.

JS: "I have a theory, perhaps incorrect but I think Obama is a smart politician, I think perhaps the hesitation we are seeing on the part of his HHS secretary is for a purpose. Could it be that he wants the left to rise up and deluge the senators representing them with phone calls emails etc in order to rally the troops and put some spine back into the wavering ones. Just a theory!"

It occurred to me, too. Scuttlebutt on the dirt/kooks blogs is that there is Democrat grass roots 'fatigue.' I'm wondering if this is a way to put a firecracker under the butts of the grassroots. Well, either way, I'm still urging everyone to BOMBARD THEM WITH EMAILS AND PHONE CALLS. Everyone you can think of. the message I had was that I was fed up with weak Democrats and I wouldn't support them in the mid-terms or the next general election because of their collective failure to stand up to the Republicans, conservatives and corporate interests--and I actually mean it.

"Obama was elected on a moderate, non-partisan pragmatist promise, not on a far-left one."

That's weird, because when Obama was running for office, the right was calling him a socailist and telling us that he was the most liberal senator in the country. Then Obama wins and all the sudden he morphs into a moderate so that the right can keep telling themselves that despite all evidence to the contrary they really really do represent most of the country.

Hey, the previous administration had a very effective and popular end-of-life policy. Iraqi and Afghan civilians faced death panels every day, and continue to do so.

That's it. I'm done with these clowns. They think they got a majority on their own, well welcome to the wilderness, baby. I'll give huge money to beat them in their primaries and if they survive that, I'll vote the other way in the general. To hell with all these self centered vermin.

I don't think Reid or most Senate Dems have to balls to do it but is this possible? Pass reform, with the Baucus six with Conrad's co-ops. But then, as part of the budget, pass a public option as a cost savings. This would be ok vis a vis the Byrd rule, because it is about saving money as part of an already passed law.

I think there's not as much here as some of you seem to think. Some of what Ross says is obvious, and some is carefully hedged.

"My guess is about 90 percent [of the final bill presented to the White House] will be reflected from what's in the Senate Finance Committee bill." I think Obama has said there is agreement on 80 percent. Ross says about 90. He's given himself plenty of room here. For just a guess, sounds about right.

"I will not force government-run health care on anyone." Who will?

"You should be able to keep the insurance you've got today, if you like it, and always choose your own doctor." Everyone agrees on both points.

"No federal funding for illegal immigrants or for abortion." Well, OK.

"No rationing of health care." At some point, we as a nation are going to have to address the fact that we spend over 16% of GDP on health care and no other nation is over 11. There are huge inefficiencies in the system, wildly uneven pricing, etc., so we need to aggressively look for savings. This bill, however, is shaping up to be mainly about extending and protecting insurance coverage. Let's get this done. It's morally justifiable in terms of priorities. So, of course no rationing.

"I will never vote for a bill to kill old people, period." As I noted in my first post on this, no one will. Should be obvious, but no reason not to state it. And note the way he phrases this: he can still vote for what was proposed, since it never was a bill to kill old people. Clever, actually. If he needs some language added to the bill to provide cover and clarity, no problem.

So. Chill, everybody.

But get involved, as JS above says: "...Obama is a smart politician... Could it be that he wants the left to rise up and deluge the senators representing them with phone calls emails etc in order to rally the troops and put some spine back into the wavering ones."

That's actually a question. The answer is, YES!

But show some understanding and some love to those Dems who've won in some of the more reddish states, and be nice to any Repubs for whom you still have hopes (there are a few).

Marc Ambinder (theatlantic) argues that the public option "just didn't have the vote".
It has the votes in the house with the modification the Blue Dogs got.
In the Senate it has 50 votes but not 60. So to say the vote are not there means the "Conservative Democrats" are ready to join the R opposition and filibuster the public option therefore causing their Party to lose the 2010 congressional and senatorial elections and the 2012 presidential elections? I doubt it. But if you mean they are ready to filibuster than they are worst than the R because they enjoy all the perks of being in the majority and then go and stub their own party in the back. The word Democratic Party than means nothing (look at the R how a real party march in steps after they decide where to go!).
Anyway in this case they should do what Carville advises: Just let the real and Quislingian oppositions mount a real filibuster...

I just got an invitation from OFA NY to attend Eric Massa's Town Hall on Tuesday. My reply was crisp:
"I would only if there will be a public option in the plan".
Let them know that there are many more Blue People
than Blue Dogs!

All this is is a negotiating tactic. It is quite common to be intransigent all the way up until the final decision is made, at which point a person in Mike Ross' position pretty much has to fold.

If the Founders had as much revolutionary will as today's Democrats we'd all have health care coverage under NHS.

"fully 80% of insured people file no claims in any given year."

But the tricky part of your proposal is, "do you feel lucky?"

80% is a big majority, sure, but if you're in the 20% you are bankrupt if your kidneys fail. You're bankrupt if you get cancer. You're bankrupt if you hit a deer and rupture your spleen (happened to a friend). You're darned near bankrupt if you become pregnant, and you're absolutely bankrupt if your child is born prematurely.

If Americans weren't so chicken shit that they refuse to pay 10% in tax for complete health care but gladly pay 20% in "premiums" to companies whose entire business model is based on finding ways to deny them health care, we'd have the universal care here, on the Canadian model, on the German model, on the French model, on the British model, or even on the Costa Rican model.

But noooooo. "Tax" is evil, "premiums" are good. "Profit" is super double good with cherries on top, so the sheeple are happy to have coverage denied so UnitedHealthCare can increase their profits, their share prices, and their exorbitant executive salaries.

I'm SICK of the stupidity of Americans, I truly am. On the other hand, I sure do like the weather in California. Sybarite or rationalist? Hmmmm. Hard decision. Maybe Victoria BC? Kind of rainy but at least there's no snow. Hmmmm.

If the status quo is so rosy, why is it so easy to satirize?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqd0XiNvtI0

In ridicule veritas.
/jc

You seem to be blaming the Blue Dogs for this, but I blame Obama-- he is too wedded to the Senate's procedures and too cozy with Senators. I don't think he was willing to push them hard enough. He prefers bipartisan pablum to a good bill.

Here's another interesting quote(s), which I checked out after seeing Tina Fey's sendup of the Palin-Couric interview. Below is the real thing:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/interview.asp

COURIC: Why isn't it better, Governor Palin, to spend $700 billion helping middle class families who are struggling with health care, housing, gas and groceries — allow them to spend more and put more money into the economy instead of helping these big financial institutions that played a role in creating this mess?

PALIN: That's why I say I, like every American I'm speaking with, we're ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But, ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy, umm ... helping the ... uh, it's got to be all about job creation, too, shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americans. And trade, we've got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive, scary thing. But one in five jobs being created in the trade sector today, we've got to look at that as more opportunity. All those things under the umbrella of job creation. This bailout is a part of that.

Interesting that Sarah Palin was not only for "death panels" before she was against them, she was for "health care reform" and "the bailout" to shore up the economy, BSWAT.

The President and members of Congress don't already have government-run health care?

Keori, I LOVE your comment. "If the Founders had as much revolutionary will as today's Democrats we'd all have health care coverage under NHS." Thank you.

Congressman Ross's office number: 1-800-223-2220 (email access only for his constituents).

I'm thinkin' lots of primary challenges. Obama should be encouraged to NOT sign any bill that does not include a public option. In fact, if the public option does not make it into the final version of the bill. Pelosi should table it until next year, and force Democrats and Republicans to run for re-election while defending the status quo. There is no point in half measures.

Pissed off as I am with Ross - and I *am* pissed off, damned near to frothing at the mouth -- my funny bone gets tickled at his quotes, esp the one where he "promises" he won't vote for a bill that kills old people. It's almost "dot-for-dot" what Stroszek said in that Kos posting
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/9/764064/-Alright-Republicans,-We-Give-Up
which, at the time, I thought hilarious. If only I could believe that Ross has as much sense of humour as Stroszek...

This country is fucked. I was in the heart of Palin-nation this weekend. We're doomed.

Quote from blue dog, step-by-step:
"I can tell you, I've laid down my set of principles, so...
1) I will not force government-run health care on anyone.
Good then he can support the bill because nobody will be forced into governmnet-run health care.

2) If there ever is government-run health care, the first ones to sign up should be the president and every member of Congress, including myself.
Good, the people mentioned already are taken care of by the government, at tax-payer expense.

3) You should be able to keep the insurance you've got today, if you like it, and always choose your own doctor.
Excellent, that's what the proponents have been trying to get through his thick skull for several months now.

4) No federal funding for illegal immigrants
Exactly the way he wants it; there's a provision that specifically addresses this issue.

5) ...or for abortion,
Again, that is not in the bill, and could only theoretically happen if someone picked a private insurance company that happens to cover abortions, while using a government voucher due to low income.

6) ...and no rationing of health care.
This idiot doesn't understand that the current bill will lower the incidence of rationing, because the majority of all rationing is done by private insurance companies.

7) I will never vote for a bill to kill old people
How dense does one have to be to understand that it is not in the bill and that NOBODY, including the President would vote for such a bill - if killing people was in it.

So... he got EVERYTHING he wants in the bill, yet he's still going to vote against it... There is no way he can ever be considered a liberal or progressive. He's not using his brain, which seems to be incompatible with the current crop of so-called-conservatives.

True conservatives are probably deeply ashamed of what is going on in this country and seeing the party that used to represent their interest deteriorate into a fascist propaganda machine.

When are the TRUE conservatives going to speak up. Are they no longer allowed on Fox News??? I would like to know... Seriously.

Hey, CalGal - I live in Victoria, and although we certainly get more rain than you do, it doesn't rain all the time like it seems to in Seattle. This summer the sunshine just went on and on, and it generally only rains for days on end in the winter and spring. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. On the downside, it IS on an island, and it can be expensive to get to Vancouver, the closest large city.

Why is it a source of pride to be called a "Blue Dog"? I mean, it's probably OK if you're a dog, but a dog has a brain about the size of an apple, does as he's told by his master and doesn't have a clue how the can opener works if he's left on his own at home for a week. Some dogs eat their own poop. Do you think that'd sound good on a resume for a human?

The Republicans are committed to killing the bill because Obama has made it a signature issue, and if he doesn't get it through, he looks like a failure. Quite a few of his own party members seem to be OK with that. It doesn't matter if the bill would be good for the average American, because the average American's welfare is not a concern for Republicans, even when they're looking for their votes. In that case, rather than kiss up to them to try and get their votes, the Republicans scare them silly, and it works every time.

In this particular case, the Democrats seem to be cooperating by torturing the bill until what comes up for a vote is worse than no health care reform at all. Then Obama will veto it, and won't that be a laugh for the Republicans? "Hyuck, hyuck, he vetoed his own bill!!" Then they can get on with putting together a bill that allows the private insurers to regulate the industry themselves. That's what they want, after all.

away evidence result release weather ppm

-And now it's Monday morning!

Dr Howard Dean, on MSNBC, just said that the House bill has a 'public option' in it.

The Senate bill will not.

When it goes to reconcilliation, the public option will be put back in, and when it goes to the Senate floor only 50 votes are needed to pass.

This sounds too good to be true. -Is it?

"fully 80% of insured people file no claims in any given year."

How is that possible? Perhaps I don't know what you mean by a "claim," but - for example - every woman should be getting a pap smear once a year. Are regular, annual doctor visits not considered "claims"?

Anyway, I lived in Ithaca for a while and always heard about their community health care org: http://www.ithacahealth.org/

I don't really know much about it but perhaps the solution is not too different from what Jenny is saying. Maybe we should institute reform from the bottom up rather than wait for these idiots at the top to do it.

If they're so opposed to the public option, then they can vote themselves and their elderly constituent out of it first. Goddamn leaches sucking the taxpayers dry with their insanely expensive demands while denying us even basic universal coverage.

These DINO tools (and that includes you, Obama) can go to hell. They're never getting another voluntary nickel from me.

What Democrats should have done is propose a health care reform bill with very specific language in it guaranteeing that "the government shall enact and fund 'death panels' that will identify and put to death any American citizen who is deemed no longer biologically viable."

Then, the Blue Dogs could have saved the day by striking that part from the bill. And the rest of it, public option included, would have sailed right through.

I'm sorry I didn't bring this up earlier.

Does anybody else think that this is an effort to create facts on the ground?

I still haven't heard any great alternative to a public option and I haven't heard any critique of the proposed reform which made any sense at all.

The Republicans (or anyone) who opposes the reform has said a lot of nonsense about a 'death panel', gov't taking yer babies, socialism, "there aren't the votes for it" and the like. Nothing to refute the actual argument that the health insurance market isn't working properly and the public option is a good way to make it work better.

As someone said, we've got facts...they've got Glenn Beck.

The general public needs to pick up on that and listen to the president. There is nothing to fear about this health insurance reform.

I proved them wrong by not only attending university, but have been a great success in my professional life. ,