When the White House starts pointing out the "helpful" GOPers, it would be nice if they'd also point out the obstructionist leadership a bit. I'm really tired of the WH accepting the idea that if bipartisanship doesn't happen it's not the GOP's fault, we just didn't concede enough.

Ever the cock-eyed opptimist, I still hope Obama is 'crazy like a fox'.

I can't see this as anything other than a great development. It seems to me that the smart thing for the repugs to do is to hold out false hope for some cooperation, string this along and to NOT give the game away until the end. All dems and most indies can now conclude, 'Bipartsanship was killed by the GOP, let's get this done without them'. Am I missing something?

If the GOP was making good faith arguments about the most effective way to deliver health care to the greatest number of people then there would be some point in attempting to compromise with them. They aren't. Their opposition to any health care reform bill is based on the fact that should the Democrats pass meaningful reform the GOP won't be out of power for just one or two election cycles it will be out of power for decades. Once again, politics trumps doing the right thing or the good thing for the GOP. It's mystifying to me that the Republicans crave power above all else and yet the last time they exercised it they used it to run the country into the ground.

Sometimes bullies forget that the bullied can snap . That's why they may act in increasingly detached bubbles . Detached from earth and reality that is , and do it so comfortably .
The "Liberal Fascist" theme accompanied by the broun shirts at town halls is not any more than flotsam , invisible from any distance not obscenely close .

Let's be clear about one thing though -- Kyl does "know what he's talking about" on health reform. He's a smart guy.

He just lies about what he knows.

And @Bill D., you may not be missing anything, but the White House sure seems to be. Dems (outside Washington, natch) reached your conclusion long ago, but indies need to be hand-held and walked there by Obama. And he's not doing it.

Frankly, with all the long-winded blather about cost curves and whatnot, Obama these days reminds me of Dukakis in '88.

Good test for a movement though -- what do you do when the supposedly charismatic hero suddenly goes soft and crumples in the limelight? I have no answers, but I'm optimistic someone does.

....but he [Kyl] did say that to get Republican support, Democrats would have to throw away the entire health care reform bill.

There you have it...

What more is Obama, who just yesterday was still extolling the virtues of the three Repubs in the "bipartisan" Group of Six, waiting to hear before he understands that the Repubs won't vote for ANY health care bill? According to Kyl, the only way to get the GOP lawmakers' support is to abandon any attempt at reforming the health care system. In plain English, Mr. President, the Repubs would like for you to scrap the whole idea of health care reform and move to something else, so that they can claim victory going into the midterm elections that would almost surely turn out like 1994...

1994 Redux: They've played that tune before and liked the way it sounded so they're hell bent on doing an encore.

If Democrats cannot pass health care reform with some real teeth in it, in this environment with these Republican leaders and members saying and doing the things that they have, there can be no other reason than that they never wanted real health care reform in the first place. And that would pretty much close the book on our system of government, you know, the one that is supposed to look out for the best interests of the people.

Who'd have thought that instead of grumblings of leaving the USA because of a Bush win in '04 (as some said they'd do), some would be considering leaving due to this. For failure here, in this environment, is probably much worse, given that our 'hope' of a 'savior' was nothing more than a fool's errand.

He went on to say that Democratic reform efforts are intended to "totally change the entire system of health care delivery and insurance in the country"

We should be so lucky.

Kyl didn't address specific concessions he'd like to see....

1. Require universal health insurance enrollment in private incurance.

2. Abolish all laws regulating health insurance companies.

3. Privatize Medicare and Medicaid.

4. Renew the Bush tax cuts.

I think that pretty well sums up what it would take for Kyl to get behind the bill.

If Democrats cannot pass health care reform with some real teeth in it, in this environment with these Republican leaders and members saying and doing the things that they have, there can be no other reason than that they never wanted real health care reform in the first place.

Oh, I can think of another reason: that rather than turn a hand to help, lefties preferred to sit around bitching-and-moaning on blogs . . .

For f*ck's sake, we need MORE GOPers to talk like this. They should keep this in their back pocket for when the GOPers piss and whine about bipartisanship and how the dems are big ol' meanies. If I were a dem strategizer I'd save up all of these clips, wait until congress is back in session, then put out an ad with all the GOPer top leadership saying they WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANYTHING. Make it clear that the GOP is refusing to cooperate, that they say they want reform but don't actually have a reform bill of their own. Call them on their bullshit.

Rule for good creating good narratives, a rule every aspiring writer learns: "Show, Don't Tell."

Obama is creating a new narrative, one that reveals to all that GOP is not interested in bi-partisanship, that they do not have a different plan for health reform, that they have no real arguments against health reform except silly, demonstrable falsehoods and paranoid fantasies, and that the opposition to health care is a coalition of insurance lobbyists and right-wing crazies.

Liberal commentators have been TELLING people all of this for years, but Obama has SHOWN people these facts, while the liberal commentator pout, whine and say "I TOLD you so."

The GOP is more discredited than ever before (what's that number for approval of how Congressional GOP has acted in health care reform -- 26%?).

Some else said yesterday -- The main goal of Protest People is to be Protest People.

For failure here, in this environment, is probably much worse, given that our 'hope' of a 'savior' was nothing more than a fool's errand.-terraformer

If you thought of Obama as a 'savior', then you were a fool long before this health care debate started. If you are wishing John Edwards or Hillary were president today instead, hoping for a better outcome, you'd be worse than just a fool. As Kyl said in the clip, democrats can't procedurally pass the entire bill through reconciliation. Obama and team are doing this long dance in order to get the last few moderate votes left to pass this thing. If they ram it down congress's throat al la Clinton 93', the same shipwreck would occur.

Or maybe you'd prefer McCain and Sarah P were running the show to solve this country's problems?

Oh, I can think of another reason: that rather than turn a hand to help, lefties preferred to sit around bitching-and-moaning on blogs . . .
Posted by: lotus

I'd second that. And add to it a large number of concern trolls wishing to stir democratic despondency.

What Zoe said.

I have to believe this is the plan. Think about it. Have the Republicans done or said anything that couldn't have been predicted? We knew they were incapable of civil discourse and that they would revert to lies and namecalling. We knew they'd stonewall, fearmonger and bring out their guns, literally.

If the dems are going to ultimately push this thing through with an up or down vote, it's vital that they first show themselves to be willing to negotiate. The Repubs are falling all over themselves right now to try and be the one to stop HCR. And they're creating an awful lot of video while doing it.

If HCR goes through, it will be popular. And every Republican will have to explain themselves for years.

I hope.

Scarpy asked "what do you do when the supposedly charismatic hero suddenly goes soft and crumples in the limelight?"

My answer: For real change - Feingold/Sanders in 2012!

When the White House starts pointing out the "helpful" GOPers, it would be nice if they'd also point out the obstructionist leadership a bit.

Like this comment he also made yesterday?

"I think early on a decision was made by the Republican leadership that said, 'Look, let's not give them a victory and maybe we can have a replay of 1993-94 when Clinton came in; he failed on health care and then we won in the midterm elections and we got the majority,'" Obama said on Smerconish's radio show. "And I think there's some folks who are taking a page out of that playbook, but this shouldn't be a political issue."

I'm not defending how long it took him to say it. And it needs to be said over and over and over. But he did finally say it.

If HCR goes through, it will be popular.

Bill Kristol noted as much back in 1994, when the GOP first torpedoed health care reform.

Note that various Republicans are also on record as saying that this is a purely political issue intended to benefit the GOP.

Obama seems to have miscalculated the intensity of the mendacity and crazy of the modern conservative movement -- always a mistake, of course -- but he also seems to be, as with the stimulus, engaged in a "give 'em enough rope" strategy where he reaches out, gets his hand bit, then sadly shakes his head and passes what he wants anyway, and the Republicans wind up with egg on their face. The American people, despite the best efforts of the so-called "liberal media," correctly perceived that the Republicans weren't acting in good faith -- and besides, they still don't trust those pricks.

And with good reason.

What kind of bill will sane Americans (Republicans) support?

For a start, how about drafting a bill making it illegal for the Democrat party to waste the public's time trying to socialize medicine? America doesn't want it, we've never wanted it and we're happy with what we've got. The current system should be protected by Constitutional amendment.

That is obvious to everyone outside this echo chamber.

Mlke K@10:13 : What kind of bill will sane Americans (Republicans) support?

For a start, how about drafting a bill making it illegal for the Democrat party to waste the public's time trying to socialize medicine? America doesn't want it, we've never wanted it and we're happy with what we've got. The current system should be protected by Constitutional amendment.

That is obvious to everyone outside this echo chamber.

Funnier trolling, please. This serves no purpose except to make it appear to the gullible that there's one more rw wacko than there actually is.

it would be nice to just have the president and the Dem leaders in the House and the Senate write off the Repugnants, and start in on twisting the arms of the Blue Dog corporate hack Dems.

And get a Single-Payer bill through the Congress and onto the President's desk.

It would be helpful to clearly and decisively cut off the Republicans -- using their own words to say they have walked away... Such clarity might even be reported by the media if it is repeated over and over and over and over every time a camera and a microphone is pointed at a Democrat:

"The Republicans have walked away."

It's truly stunning how much power the Democrats have handed over to the Republicans. These guys are in deep minorities and are weak. But Democrats insist on handing them more power by insisting the bill must be bipartisan.

Democrats are weakening themselves and strengthening Republicans by begging Republicans to agree to the avalanche of concessions from the Ds.

With friends like these....

With a Super Majority and no passage of the HCR bill Americans will be eager turn out another do nothing congress.

I am already getting anti-incumbent e-mails.