"I can trace my ancestry back to the Mayflower."

It's that kind of irrelevant "real American" nonsense that reinforces the idea that this has everything to do with Obama being different (among other things, black) and nothing to do with substance.

How will the party of personal responsibility respond when one or more of its enraged followers (again) decides it's time to slaughter liberals to save the republic?

I'm sure there will be all sorts of "nobody could have predicted" statements, as in "Nobody could have predicted that telling armed and angry citizens to go kill their fellow citizens would have led to bloodshed."

who the hell is wally herger?
and a mayflower pilgrim in redding ca?

redding ca?

sweet jeebus... this is a roger corman film.

whatta country!

"The Republican congressman said with a broad smile, "Amen, God bless you. There is a great American."

Next Oklahoma City in 3...2...1

Check out the freeped comments at the link for the original Herger article.

The hate is truly sickening.

Any legislation Republicans don't like is a threat to democracy, just as criticism, pointed questions, requests for clarification are, in Sarah Palin's mind, threats to free speech.

-When I was a boy, 'right wing Mayflower descending terrorists' hid behind trees and shot at the Redcoats.

Green Mountain boys, Don't Tread on Me, Live Free or Die.

As ANOTHER Mayflower descendant, Sons of the Revolution, etc, give me a call when a foreign enemy is wading ashore. Then I'll get Pap's thutty thutty offen the mantlepiece, and answer your call to arms.

Meanwhile, I'll be re-reading my Constitution of the United States. . .

Steve,
bring us some voices of moderate Republicans, PLEASE!

By GOD! Can't have terrorists in prisons near us! Better to have the home grown variety, out in the open, wielding guns, spouting insanity, and combating the real threats to our democracy. Who do you spell skizofrenia? Wonder how much Homeland Security money the cal rep. brought home to his agricultural district? I might add that the real threats to our democracy are safe legislative districts that allow the extremists to be continually reelected.

Since the gentleman has CONFESSED to being a terrorist, remanding him to Syria for torture seems the only prudent response.

We've got to stop giving these right wing radicals a hall pass when it comes to the meaning of "democracy" and "constitutionalism," which they throw around all the time in the service of a very reactionary program.

We need to press them to give us a definition of what they mean by such words. My guess is that we would be shocked by what they would say. My guess is that what that both words are a code for "separation." What these conservatives really mean by democracy is the right of the white Christian majority to control their lives exactly as they see fit -- using majority rule, or majority tyranny -- to marginalize anyone one differs from them.

By the Constitution -- and specifically federalism and states rights -- the right wing means transferring real political power from the larger nation to local warlords and private oligarchs who govern according to local standards that almost inevitably leads to the discrimination of some people as one group (white Christians mostly) are elevated over everyone else. For this brand of conservative -- prevelent in the South -- the Constitution is not seen as a charter of national unity and standards of indivdual and civic rights but one giving an invented right to those who feel they have "lost" their country to separate from that country if they wish.

We can't let these radicals re-define democracy for their own purposes and get away with it, because it is their agenda, not Obama's, that constitutes the gravest threat we seen in a very long time to our diverse and plural democracy.

The problem of today is that the Mayflower Terrorists have become the folks who have always oppressed the poor, the disposessed, the minorities, the unwanted. They are the Establishment and they are saying silly things.

President Obama needs to use this as a time to take from those who never earned it and give it to those who never had a chance. The wealthy in this country have shown that we would be better off without their wealth in their hands.

"I can trace my ancestry back to the Mayflower."

Kind of gives resonance to the term "descendent", but really it's just more Obama=Other talk. Like that Lt. Gov. of CA reported to have described Watergate as a conspiracy "of the Jews and the Niggers."

If nothing else, at least there's a nice body of literature being generated for future historians to track the ongoing progress of American lunacy.

I went to college in the northeast and learned early on to be skeptical of claims of "I can trace my ancestry back to the Mayflower." I must have met 15 people at that small college who made that claim.

The behaviour and language that the Obama administration will apparently tolerate, compared to what prevailed under the Bush/Cheney regime, is staggering. That "Great American" would have been dragged to death behind a shrieking mob under Bush's rule. His security services used to cordon off entire blocks when he was going to speak somewhere - Christ, even when he was on fricking VACATION - but private citizens sporting loaded assault rifles are permitted right outside of Obama events. Is he looking to become a martyr, or something?

The very best thing that could happen to the Republicans would be for the country to just break around them as flowing water does around a rock, and pass them by. But that's difficult to do with such a loud, hateful, violent group, small though it might be. Republicans trip out on war, that's clear to see, and they'd love to make this one. Trouble is, the last time America mobilized to revolution, it was an inspiration. This time, it'd be an abomination.

I can trace my ancestry back to apes. Beat that, Mayflower Boy.

Interesting that someone so opposed to the current administration would bring up the fact that they are connected to the Mayflower -- a ship used by a group of religious fanatics who had to travel across an ocean at great risk to themselves and their families in order to achive the separation necessary to realize the purity of their religious vision. I do not doubt that something of that fanaticism is at work in today's GOP.

I can trace my ancestry back to the slave ships - what kind of props can I get for that?

So ... for the current Republican party:

Creating out of whole cloth the reasons for invading a nation that wasn't a threat ... capitalizing on the act of self-admitted terrorists for political gain ... wiretapping Americans without a warrant ... torturing innocent people -- sometimes to the point of death -- in violation of federal and international law and treaties that were not revoked by Congress ... a President governing by fiat thanks to the "unitary executive" ... throwing people out of events who wore t-shirts critical of the President's policies ...

All totally peachy, kosher, cool, and utterly within the great American traditions of democracy and justice for all.

BUT ...

Try to provide health care to all Americans, and do so just like we do with the 40+ year old Medicare, and paying for it by charging the top 1% of wage earners an extra 1.5% in taxes?

OH MY GODDZER!!!!1111!!! THAT'S A THREAT TO THE FABRIC OF ALL THAT IS HOLY ABOUT TEH AMERICA!!!!!111!11ONEELEVENTYONE!11!!!!!

Sweet Jesus H. Riverdancing Christ on a pogo stick. I knew these clowns wouldn't like a black man being President, but, wow. They have lost all concept of reality. All of it. Totally.

You know ... this is going to end poorly (whether for them, or for us, I'm not sure) and it'll be the fault of people like Wally the Terrorist Lover when it does.

We must remember that, and make sure he -- and all the others who have stoked the flames -- does as well.

Mark D, I was going to say pretty much everything you already said. Thanks. Let's just hope there are enough sane constituents in Mr. Harger's district to give him his walking papers in November of '10. Let's hope this incident gets a lot of publicity.

Good lord, remember when "terrorist" was the ultimate term of abuse you could throw at someone? Not that long ago, actually; Palinbots were calling Obama a "terrorist" less than a year ago. And now the right wing has swung right around to embracing the term with "pride?"

One more thought. No country in history has ever become a dictatorship, or adopted either a Fascist or a Communist government as a result of offering universal health care. A great many countries have gone that route because irresponsible demagogues exploited public fear and discontent at a time of economic crisis, and urged the public to direct that rage at a scapegoated group. That's the real danger this country faces today.

Republicans: "Democracy, democracy!!!"

Democrats: "You keep using that word. I am not sure it means what you think it means"

And Mark D: I am totally using the "Wally the terrorist lover" at my fantasty football draft tonight.

Context is important. Simpson University, where these terrorists gathered, is a private, evangelical Christian university.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
-- Mohandas Gandhi

calvin's ancestors jumped off the boat in time to take up arms against the King. Doesn't that make them left-wing terrorists? After all, it's difficult to get any further to the right than being King.

Logically, wouldn't those who claim to be right-wingers based on fleeing tyranny in Europe, in fact, be descended from left-wingers? But, then, truth has never been their strong suit.

"I can trace my ancestry back to the Mayflower."

So, there is nobility in the US after all?

I could have traced my ancestry back to pre-Christian Jerusalem, but the REAL Nazis obliterated any trace of my grandparents' families that were left in Europe.

I can trace my ancestory to the autochthonous people of this country. So as far as I am concerned, all Mayflower people can go back where they came from and get the hell off my land.

I'd like to know who among those 2,000 people who cheered against the public option is uninsured, underinsured, or ever been denied insurance for a pre-existing condition. Sounds like they were fed a line and cheered it heedlessly because anyone who says he or she is against the public option is not thinking or works for a health insurer. (As the name implies, it's optional.) Saying you're against the public option is like saying you're in favor of huge insurance company profits and coverage denials.

Neill:

"...and a mayflower pilgrim in redding ca..."

Actually, they are spread all over the country.

I, too, can trace my ancestry back to the Mayflower. I could also be a member of the DAR if I wanted. I don't want. To me, these are a great big SO WHAT??? I could belong to the Mayflower Compact (my father does and I have attended banquets with him), but would not do so.

What we do with ourselves in our own lives is what counts, not what ancestors have done, over which we obviously have zip control. People who think they are special because of some ancestry baffle me. And this is from someone who would actually be given points by these people.

I also agree with others who have pointed out that the Mayflower folks wished to escape from tyranny in England so they could impose their own brand of tyranny in the New World.

As for the "Town Hells", here's what I would do if I were a congresscritter. I would have a PowerPoint presentation ready to go, covering the main points on which the various bills agree, mentioning points of disagreement and where outcomes are uncertain. I would have points rebutting the "death panels" and other right wing crapola. I would play loud music the level of which would be brought down while I was speaking, and then brought up again between points. I would say very clearly, as some of our congresscritters have done at the beginning of meetings, that all are welcome to ask questions and express their views, AFTER MY PRESENTATION, and that any shouting will result in expulsion. And then enforce that.

The loud music could drown out some of the shouting before those people could be escorted from the site, and the visuals of the PowerPoint can be read by all even if they can't hear me or other reasonable people speaking.

I would also invite people attending to make posters expressing views, brief, to the point, rebutting the scare crap put out by the right, and to begin waving the signs the minute any shouting and rowdiness begins.

I won't hold my breath, but it would be wonderful if local newspapers or TV could ask Herger and any other clown-like Representatives that equate the public option with tyranny or similarly dire consequences, "So, if the public option is such a threat, when will we see you introduce legislation or file a lawsuit to end Medicare and Social Security."

Wally Herger is my representative. A charitable description of him is lackluster, ineffective, Republican backbencher. But, then, I'm a charitable kind of Democrat.

At the town hall meeting he held in Chico on August 19, he did not endorse terrorism. When he was asked why the infant mortality rate in the US was lower than in other industrialized countries, he said it was because of illegal immigrants coming to the US to have their babies. He then said "We have a whole strata of our society that is not homogeneous. It's not like Sweden or Switzerland where the population is homogeneous, where they're not dragged down . . . "

Although there had been a rousing cheer when he said "illegal immigrants," after he started on the homogeneous road many in the audience of 1000, including me, started to boo. So he changed his remarks to note that "we are all immigrants from somewhere, except for Native Americans." Then he moved on. He was dangerously close to saying if America was all white we wouldn't have a health care problem, but caught himself just in time.

The Chico meeting was much more balanced in the views expressed by the public, and overall very civil. But Chico is a city that is used to having lots of differing opinions and still finding a way to live together. Wish we could get a new representative though.

California, like many states, is divided by region. The coastal districts vote 70-90% Democratic, the Central Valley districts vote 70-90% Republican. In the 2000 election in San Francisco county George Bush even came in third place losing to both Al Gore and the Green Party candidate.

I was at a town hall today with Jackie Speier (D) in San Mateo County along the coast. There was a smattering of right wing cranks and crazies but mostly it was quite civil and educational. One goofy guy who claimed to be ex-military (wearing a shirt made out of an American flag) brought up the socialism charge. This just resulted in a lot of laughter. A nice bit of comic relief.

It was a real puzzle just what the right wing crazies wanted. More than one guy spoke quite angrily about how they didn't want government involved in health care and yet they admitted to getting Medicare or being in the VA system. It seems like they are really mad and hurt about something but they can't articulate that so they latch on to some of these other catch phrases because if you listen to their words they don't make sense.

Another time a woman got up and said she has been a doctor for 45 years. She complained about 1.5B$ or so in the bill intended to research better ways to treat people. She said that this was unnecessary and that her experience was adequate for this task. As a doctor, if she really was a doctor, how could she not be interested in research into better healing methods? The reaction from the crowd was "Don't go to that doctor!"

The Mayflower was a boatload of repressed Calvinists who were terrorists to the native people- the "real Americans"if you will. We are alll mostly Euro-Americans. None of us ( E-A's)can trace our lineage back to say, Geronimo or Sakijawia or Seattle. We were the interlopers, the locusts who stormed in and squated without a thought to who might actually live here, even if they were "savages".

As a traced and proven descendant of one of the Mayflower pilgrims (his "house" is still at Plymouth Plantation), I would like to encourage the Justice Department to take the "right-wing terrorist" into custody before he, like his predecessors Timothy McVeigh, Paul Hill, and Scott Roeder, can commit murder.