Stupid woman, just like Steele on NPR this morning trying to explain why Medicare = good government program, why the Democrats are trying to destroy it and why it is bad for everyone else.
The audacity of stupidity

Typical Kansas -- I've been here 13 yrs and its still the same ignorant GOP Kansan Konservative Khristian thinking and people in power. Brownback, Roberts, Tihart, Jenkins, Kobach, State Board of Education's "Dinosaurs are Jesus Ponies"...

This kind of thinking isnt limited to Texas or Oklahoma -- heck, given their proximity, I'm sure there's interbreeding going on...

I just saw a picture of this woman over at Huffpost I found out where Carl Malden's nose went.
http://cjonline.com/news/state/2009-08-26/jenkins_remark_raises_eyebrows

/snark

Congresswoman Lynn Jenkins simply used a figure of speech to make a larger point, which is simply that the GOP needs a bold, charismastic, and unifying figure to rally around in order to reinvigorate the Republican base.

The expression itself, "great white hope," was never meant to be taken literally and it's just shallow partisanship to think otherwise.

Little wonder that fringe leftists of the blogosphere are taking this rather innocuous remark and hyperventilating like chihuahuas suffering from a sun stroke. It's all partisan rancor all the time, 24/7, with Obama-applauding liberals.

What a damn shame.

Republicans already gave black voters the choice of Alan Keyes, and they ungratefully declined it. Offering any thing other than a white candidate now would be reverse racism, possibly even double super change-o reverse racism.

Having to straighten out the brain-dead slips of Lynn Jenkins racist mind must be galling for her staff. And they obviously did struggle mightily, because the 'clarification' released by Lynn Jenkins office to defuse this landmine just adds hilarity to her idiocy:

"There may be some misunderstanding there when she talked about the great white hope," Geiger said. "What she meant by it is they have a bright future. They're bright lights within the party."

Sure, Mrs Geiger. How could anybody have understood the utterings of your boss in any other way?

Sad thing is though, that this 'clarification' will do its job for the MSM.

"...I found out where Carl Malden's nose went."

And Sandra Bernhardt's mouth. Sorry for the looksism, but sheesh, what a face.

Fashion Alert to Rep. Jenkins: Your Freudian Slip is showing. . .

The expression itself, "great white hope," was never meant to be taken literally and it's just shallow partisanship to think otherwise.

Hahaha good one!

Ripped straight from Wiki:

The term, "the great white hope," reflects the racism and segregation of the era in which Johnson fought. It could be argued that Johnson, the first African American to hold the World Heavyweight Championship title, was the best fighter of his generation. Yet, white reaction against Johnson's win and his very public relationships with white women was so strong that, in 1912, the United States Congress, concerned that scenes of Johnson pummeling white boxers would cause race riots, passed a law making it illegal to transport prizefight films across state lines.[5] "The great white hope" is a reference to the boxer whom whites hoped would finally defeat Johnson.

The expression itself, "great white hope," was never meant to be taken literally and it's just shallow partisanship to think otherwise. - Urban Matrix

Sure, and there is no history and no context either.

You will have to try harder.

Look no further Sen. Jenkins - I've heard that Gerry Cooney is available.

I'd like to nominate Rush Limbaugh as 'great white whale' of the GOP.

Too bad they didn't get Michael Jackson instead of Michael Steele (or was that another fuckup by a GOP intern???!). Then they would have had their great white (well, whitish) hope as party chair.

Well, they've found the Great White Dope, and she's in Kansas.

I doubt the Rep in question was aware of the historical origins of the phrase.

Unfortunately, Republicans are stupid.

There is a great deal of racist rhetoric coming from the right-wing, however. Some subtle, some not.

But the greater fallacy in the statement is that it's wrong. The right-wing does not need a "great white hope" (of any shade), what it needs is an ideology that actually works wrt governance. At the moment, they're into: big spending for wars while espousing "limited government" which means "screw you" for a large segment of the population. They're into rewarding their fat cat friends & those who top off their campaign coffers (helllooo insurance industry!). They're into politicizing every staid bureaucracy the Federal Government runs to. They're into deregulation so that large-scale robberies can become more large scale (hellllooo Wall Street!).

And they're into giving wonderful advice to desperately needy people praying for decent health reform by suggesting they humiliate themselves by begging to their neighbors for help.

I can't think of a single policy that the Republicans have been behind since Nixon was president that has actually worked & benefited the nation as a whole.

What they need is a new platform.

The phrase "Final Solution" was never meant to be taken literally; it was merely a figure of speech designed to awaken the German people to the threats facing them.

"Great White Hope" is the name of a play and a movie. In Johnson's own time, the phrase was "White Hope"--used by the likes of Jack London, among others.
See also "mighty white of you", and that old photo of Alan Simpson in minstrel blackface. It's not KKK-deep hatred, more fraternal-organization-that-never-realized-they-had-no-black-people-on-the-rolls. But then they don't have any Jews either.

You go to her district and you probably won't see any black people, unless you head out of town and find a dirt road, where they all live.

Oddly enough, they're probably nice people, or would be if it was 1946.

I think this one may be making a mountain out of a mole hill. While its origin is no doubt racist, the phrase is just slang. Sometimes we on the left want to chastise everything that is said. It leads to crying wolf. A stupid and somewhat embarrassing statement, maybe. But something worth a whole post, I have trouble seeing that.

Personal opinion. If we start mocking every little thing that comes out of people's mouth, we begin to look like the boy who cried wolf. Like a Republican friend who told me yesterday Obama should be investigated for crimes because he lied and has not fulfilled his campaign promises when we were discussing Bush and torture. After awhile I just stop listening to stupid statements. The same could happen to leftists if we mock things like this.

6:20 on the west coast... what a delightful little story to hear to start the day.

how wonderful that the real racist nature of the united states is raising its ugly head all over the place.

whatta country!

(and all this death panel, "kill granny" projection stuff means the next repugnant administration is REALLY gonna be sumptin' -- oh, boy! no more mistih cheney/nice guy!)

>The expression itself, "great white hope," was never meant to be taken literally and it's just shallow partisanship to think otherwise.

Right. I'm sure this term included people of all races, including yetis.

You forgot to mention that the spokesperson, while denying Jenkins' nefarious intentions, emphasized that these are "dark and challenging times."

Is there no subtlety left in this world?

Urban Matrix -- If that is the case then Rep. Jenkins is an uneducated idiot who used a phrase that she did not understand completely.

Mountain out of a molehill? At any other time in our history, absolutely! But, right now, when conservatives are comfortable questioning the president's citizenship, and turning a republican backed policy into "death panels," and a 30-year-old manual into a brand new "death book," Jenkins should be eviscerated for this slip up.

And Cantor? He's the most hopeless white guy I've ever encountered.

I think this one may be making a mountain out of a mole hill. While its origin is no doubt racist, the phrase is just slang.

Look, there are lots of expressions that are "just slang" that nonetheless scream "do not employ me!" when they pop into our heads. If Jenkins and her spokeswoman weren't dog whistling when they used the (mightily loaded in this context) terms "white" and "dark," they were definitely exercising pathetic judgment. Sometimes a total tin ear is just as troubling as outright bigotry.

She wasn't apologizing for her choice of the "Great White Hope" phrase. She was apologizing for the "great young Republican minds" phrase.

Perhaps many of you have not been exposed to expressions and figures of speech throughout your lives, and never use slang to make a point.

That's interesting. Since it appears most of you liberals are so literal-minded, then I guess when something comes "out of left field," you'll be anxiously looking at the left field of a baseball stadium to see just what's going to come, and if you're not already there, you'll get into your cars and drive over to the closest stadium to witness that peculiar left field emergence.

Whatever.

And here I thought many of you prized intellect and abstract thought. Who would have thought you were so incredibly naive and unexposed to the vagaries of speech?

I learn something new every day. Thanks!

Is there a dining room table speaking?

Perhaps many of you have not been exposed to expressions and figures of speech throughout your lives, and never use slang to make a point.

Oh, we do. It's just that we manage to discern that certain expressions are quite obviously offensive, and choose not to use them.

"Abstract thought" and "bigoted expressions" aren't automatically synonymous, though you're fatuously pretending that all slang terms are created equal. Last time I checked, an outfield wasn't a derogated minority (although I certainly have been offended many times by events in my local outfield that had nothing to do with tin ears like yours and everything to do with tin gloves).

I learn something new every day.

Maybe. But today's educational moment is apparently still to come for you.

The phrase "Final Solution" was never meant to be taken literally; it was merely a figure of speech designed to awaken the German people to the threats facing them. - Troll

Maybe you should inform yourself a bit about history before you spout nonsense like that. The term 'Final Solution', or 'Endloseung' in German, was created in January 1942 at a secret conference of top level Nazi functionaires and Nazi bureaucrats in a place near Berlin called Wannsee, where they formally decided their plans for the systematic, industrial-scale extermination of Jews in Eastern Europe.

'Final Solution' was never a term of official Nazi policy in order to 'awaken the German people' to anything. Which is why many people in Germany after the end of WW II thought it credible to claim that they had no idea what was happening to the Jews that were being deported eastward from all over the places the Nazi war machine controlled.

SRW1: The handle gives you a large clue that this person is being sarcastic and mocking the "it's just slang" argument.

Urban - her district is similar to the one I live in, we share the vagaries of speech you mention. When someone around here says great white hope, they mean exactly that, find a white person to beat the black guy.

Yes, because we all know that Republicans have no history whatsoever of fomenting racial bigotry and hatred via dog-whistle words and phrases to drum up political support.

Oh, wait ...

shortstop, au contraire, mon frere.

This otherwise prosaic incident, and how literal-minded members of the left have foolishly reacted, has certainly been a teachable moment for me.

My gratitude is eternal. Thanks again.

P.S. More confusing figures of speech (for the left, that is):

Keeping it close to the vest

Wearing one's emotions on one's sleeve

Getting down to brass tacks

I know, I know -- it's all so confusing!

SRW1: The handle gives you a large clue that this person is being sarcastic and mocking the "it's just slang" argument. - shortstop

You're right. Sorry for being brain-dead myself.

Little wonder that fringe leftists of the blogosphere are taking this rather innocuous remark and hyperventilating like chihuahuas suffering from a sun stroke.
So what's the excuse for all of the wingers showing up at town hall meetings and barking fact-free nonsense like a pack of Prarie Dogs in heat? Oh, that's right, they were there for the noble cause of shilling for the people who provide The World's Most Expensive Medical Careâ„¢ with the poorest outcomes in the industrialized world.
If you yearn for a "bold, charismastic(sic), and unifying figure" then don't hold your breath: the entire Republican party couldn't come up with a thimbleful of any of those things.
Tool.

I know, I know -- it's all so confusing!

Not to anyone but you, ma soeur. Look at the three phrases you listed. Now look at these:

Jew him down
Welsh on a bet
Weak sister
Gyp me
Great white hope

Notice anything different about your set of phrases and mine? No? Maybe you're not smarmily disingenuous. Maybe you're just fucking stupid.

Maybe you're not smarmily disingenuous. Maybe you're just fucking stupid.

I choose "C: Both" ...

:-)

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU GUYS! LA LA LA LA LA LA!

I'll to preface my posts with WARNING - SARCASM AHEAD!!!

shortstop, mon petit ami, the fact that you lump in "great white hope" with "Jew him down" shows a certain bit of smarmy disingenuousness on your own part, indisputably so.

By the way, the "rule of thumb" is a cultural idiom that has its roots in sexist violence. Yet I'm sure many of you have employed this idiom from time to time without collapsing from shame that you've somehow validated the beating of women.

Seriously, lefties. You're making a mountain out of a molehill for the sake of scoring cheap partisan points, and I suspect you know this.

Urban Matrix, you mind if we nominate you for the order of the garter?

You have earned, in light of your valiant defense of Mrs Jenkins. And then the motto is so appropriate to your line of argument.

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

the "rule of thumb" is a cultural idiom that has its roots in sexist violence.

Wrong.

Try again.

.

Of course a tearful apology in the House of congress will be demanded...oh, wait she's not a Democrat. Never mind, free pass on this one.

I think she probably meant something more like "white knight", a phrase itself not entirely innocuous, but not charged with associations from America's racial history. But like all Republicans this congresswoman is a cultural illiterate, so she spliced this other phrase that sounds kind of like it, and was ignorant of its origin and connotations.

But I similarly have not been able to persuade people that George Felix Allen was mangling the word "muchacho" when he called that Indian-American a macaca. Because he thinks all dark-skinned people are Hispanic, and that it would look cool to call him "muchacho". You can perhaps imagine George W. Bush actually being able to pull this off (though Bush would get the guy's ethnicity right, and would only play the card if he thought it would go over with the audience, including the fellow thusly addressed). But Allen isn't even as smart or literate as Bush, so he screwed it up and down went his political prospects.

I think I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on this one- some people just reach around in their minds for a cliche to illustrate a point a pull out whatever comes first. I had a former boss whose gems included: "We'll be 21, white and free", and "We don't want to blow our wads on this", amongst others I would have to take some time to remember. This was a 60 year old woman who would have died of shame if she realized she was referencing slavery or alluding to ejaculation.

urban matrix: The expression itself, "great white hope," was never meant to be taken literally and it's just shallow partisanship to think otherwise.

umm...

Republican Base Heavily White - Gallup 6/1/09

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118937/Republican-Base-Heavily-White-Conservative-Religious.aspx?CSTS=alert

you don't say....

Seriously, lefties. You're making a mountain out of a molehill for the sake of scoring cheap partisan points, and I suspect you know this

Firstly, this piece is a single item on the Washington Monthly blog, not the front page of the New York Times. Nothing that happens here is a "mountain" by any metaphorical measure. It's just one guy reporting and a bunch of others chatting about it, with the usual dose of Internet forum self-indulgent hyperbole.

Secondly, the point made is valid regardless of Ms Jenkin's motives. Either she is deliberately using a metaphor with a racist subtext, or she was not culturally literate enough to realize she was using a metaphor with a racist subtext. In the latter case, she apologized and that should be the end of it.

Unless, of course, her slogan for next years election is "we'll string 'em up in 2010!" That would be worrisome.

One of the reasons "great white hope" is such an "edgy" metaphor is the overblown ridiculousness of its premise. Why should anyone give a damn about whether a boxing champion was white or black? It mattered to a virulently racist American back in the day, but it isn't a positive metaphor to use today. Anyone who is a "great white hope" is a challenger who is being overhyped or whose challenge is vaguely foolish. Not a phrase to use when you are talking about a serious challenge on a serious issue.

spork_incident, Robert Sheaffer is an unapologetic anti-feminist who believes that there's a vast female conspiracy to destroy American men. That sounds kinda wingnutty to me.

Is this is really who you want to use as a scholarly source for debunking the "rule of thumb" cultural idiom?

It only goes to show that once again, liberals are consistent in their inconsistency.

kth, I agree with you, "white knight" could be used interchangeably with "great white hope," but given the knee-jerk PC-ness of the current cultural climate, it likely would have been regarded as less inflammatory.

However, given the orthodox, literal-minded thinking on display here and elsewhere by leftist egalitarians, I'm not too hopeful that "white knight" wouldn't have been similarly attacked and hyperventilated over.

Despite having suffered a withering loss, Urban Matrix played on into the fifth quarter.

kth, I agree with you, "white knight" could be used interchangeably with "great white hope," but given the knee-jerk PC-ness of the current cultural climate, it likely would have been regarded as less inflammatory.

Now, you're just being ridiculous. "Great White Hope" is documented as having a racist source. "White Knight" can be abused for racist purposes, but most people would know it from "Through the Looking Glass" and old movies about "Black Knights" in Merrie Olde England.

Urban -

I chose that particular link because it came from the Right since that's how you flow.

However, feel free to do a little research yourself; you'll quickly find that you're still wrong.

Enjoy!

.

"The earliest citation comes from Sir William Hope’s The Compleat Fencing-Master, second edition, 1692, page 157: "What he doth, he doth by rule of thumb, and not by art."[1][2] The term is thought to originate with wood workers who used the length of their thumbs rather than rulers for measuring things, cementing its modern use as an imprecise yet reliable and convenient standard."

Really, if the only people who "know" that "rule of thumb" had something to do with wife-beating are Internet nit-pickers, claiming that everyone else who uses the term is sexist is just a search for gotcha points.

Shorter spork_incident: "I got busted relying on a misogynist."

You sure did.

And I love that "do your own research" fallback strategy. You've got no verifiable citation, but you're sure you're right. Absolutely!

Midland, a link would be helpful, unless there's another anti-feminist misogynist you're trying to obfuscate with.

I agree with Craig that this is making a mountain out of a molehill. However, Jenkin's use of the phrase does reflect the extreme parochialism of the current Republican party, just as the attack on Sotomayor did. It's a party of middle-aged to elderly white folks who have little or no awareness of what it's like to be poor or a minority in this country and who have a very insular view of the world. This is racial insensitivity, not racism.

Clearly the phrase has turned out to be a real white guy in the wood pile.

I grew up in Pennsyltucky, probably similar to Jenkins's district, and the only context I've heard the phrase used in was when a bunch of white guys are watching a basketball or football game (where the marquee players are typically black) and a white player gets referred to as the "great white hope." Larry Bird is the best example I can think of off the top of my head. I've never heard it used in a non-racial context.

Now, I don't think anyone should be demanding this woman's resignation, but given the climate we live in right now - our first black President being vilified as a Muslim/Nazi/socialist/baby-killer/grandma-killer, with people showing up at his town halls armed - I do think it was a very poor choice of words and an apology was in order.

Midland, a link would be helpful, unless there's another anti-feminist misogynist you're trying to obfuscate with.

Straight from Wikipedia, where the article has several references. Really, though, a chicken or the egg argument about whether "rule of thumb" came from originally is pointless. It's like the fifties MacArthy Era trope about "rock and roll" being a term that "negroes use to describe SEX!" If you want to claim that a given phrase has a subtextual significance in popular culture, then it behooves you first to show that some large share of populace is directly or indirectly aware of that subtext's existence. The Great White Hope is a significant movie that pretty much everyone should be aware of, even if they haven't seen it. What are the odds that more than a few thousand people in this country are aware that "rule of thumb" was once used to define the size of a stick for wife-beating? Even if you could show that this was its primary purpose, and not just a common workman's phrase that someone happened to write into that?

Sigh.

.

Now I will pretend that there is something wrong with your links and throw another tangential statement out to avoid admitting that I've been taken apart in this thread LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!!!!! BUT KEEP TALKING TO ME!!!!!!

Okay, I get it now.

spork_incident is actually a crypto "men's rights" advocate -- which is why he's knee-jerk reacting to the "rule of thumb" idiom, and Midland just threw his hands up in the air and effectively said, "it doesn't matter what the origin is, I'm still right!"

Declare yourselves victors and thump your narrow chests with your tiny fists. You're both so awesome.

You know, we're only 8 months into President Obama's administration, and his die-hard stalwarts are already this unhinged and getting upset at every perceived slight against Dear Leader. This "great white hope" thing is just another example of what happens when people who are looking to get offended become, well, offended -- and rather easily, too.

I've already suggested that you liberals try to relax and stop frothing over what amounts to be a non-issue, but trying to offer a positive direction is a cause for offense, too.

Unbelievable.

Okay, fellas. Keep those knees jerking and never let your guard up. Otherwise those right-wing boogeymen will slide out from under your beds and gnaw at your oh-so-sensitive ankles.

spork_incident is actually a crypto "men's rights" advocate -- which is why he's knee-jerk reacting to the "rule of thumb" idiom, and Midland just threw his hands up in the air and effectively said, "it doesn't matter what the origin is, I'm still right!"

Jeez, do you always get so pissy when someone disagrees with you? Any chance you might point out a flaw in the rather obvious observation I made? That a phrase like "rule of thumb" cannot be "mysogynist" in general use if virtually the entire population has no idea that it ever meant anything other than "a rough but useful approximation?"

On the subject of "Great White Hope," I wasn't taking a liberal position, just the common sense position that a public official should avoid using metaphors commonly associated with racism.

Apparently Ms Jenkins figured it out, in the end. By the way, this policy more or less correspondes with standard corporate business practice in this country. When you're speaking in public (or emailing) don't use ethnic jokes or stereotypes. Totally aside from whether you care who you offend directly, it offends people who believe in good manners and politeness among strangers and generally undermines your ability to communicate clearly.

That's just a rule of thumb, of course. Every company has its own detailed policy, some simple and reasonable, some overwrought and overly senstive.

Yep time to replace the letter G with K, O with K, and P with K. It's made abundantly clear that the Republicans only want a "great white hope" from that "real" part of America.

BTW don't let no one white wash the term for you, saying that the "great white hope" is some generic term for a savior. No one ever spoke of Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Tiger Woods, or the Williams sisters that way, but they sure tag Larry Bird, Peyton Manning, and Brett Farve with that moniker.

She is either a racist or stupid. Either way, she is incapable of holding office.

It's simple-- would anyone use "great white hope" to refer to, say, Michael Steele? Would anyone on the GOP refer to Obama as the "great white hope" of the democrats?

No and no, because the "white" part refers explicitly to a white person, to pretend the word "white" doesn't have any meaning is just silly. This has nothing to do with PC-ness, it has everything to do with ignorance and stupidity. Anyone defending the use of the phrase is such a True Believer Republican they can't even acknowledge the smallest of mistakes.

I've already suggested that you liberals try to relax and stop frothing over what amounts to be a non-issue, but trying to offer a positive direction is a cause for offense, too.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

Holy crap! Thanks, UM; that was classic.

I mean, listening to a conservatroll whine about someone -- ANYone -- taking a "non-issue" and blowing it out of proportion is hysterical. As is thinking there's a single conservative anywhere actually interested in taking anything in a "positive direction." Unless it's "positively insane." Then, okay, I'd agree.

Thanks for the funny, even though you're probably too stupid to understand why it is so.

One point -- I don't see any excuse for her saying "great white hope," but I think it's unkind and unfair for Steve to say "All three are white, as is Jenkins," as if there was something race-conscious in her choice of GOP leaders.

I mean, come on, Steve, what else does the GOP offer these days?

You cannot get upset with Jenkins, She thinks white folks are superior to people of color. It was not out of the goodness of the white man's heart black people are not on some white man's plantation. It never was in the scheme of things for black people to be nothing but slaves in America. If it was not for the grace of God black people would still be tortured and murdered on some white man's plantations. Remember the white government did not free black folks because they wanted to God soften their hearts.

She's either racist, stupid, or both. Pick one. move on.

I've come to expect dishonest intellectual discourse and analysis from Republicans, Urban Matrix, you've done nothing in these pages to change my mind.

onward.