Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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September 3, 2009

THE FABRIC IS STRONG, BUT IT'S NOT INDESTRUCTIBLE.... Time's Joe Klein reports from Arkansas, where he attended a town-hall event hosted by Sen. Blanche Lincoln (D). He found an "astonishing" number of attendees who were absolutely certain that President Obama has "larded the government with communists." It was among many of the "vomitous, disgraceful notions" he heard from locals, one of whom said, "We are living Glenn Beck's fantasy life."

Could I just say that the intensity of this getting pretty scary...and dangerous? We are heading toward a cliff and the usual brakes of civil discourse are not working. Indeed, the Republicans have the pedal to the metal -- rushing us toward a tragedy far greater than the California health care forum finger-biting Karen describes below. I'm usually not one to panic or be overly worried about the state of our country -- even when we do awful things like invade Iraq and torture people, we usually right our course before long -- but I have a sinking feeling about where we're headed now. I hope I'm wrong.

It's possible that Arkansas is just uniquely strange right now. It is a state where a majority of residents trust Rush Limbaugh, and distrust President Obama. It's a state where less than half the population believes the president was born in the United States. It's a state with one of the highest rates in the country for those lacking health insurance, but where the idea of reform is wildly unpopular.

Or maybe it's not just Arkansas and there's something very wrong with our political system, put under a serious strain by the "conservative lunatic brigade," stuck in a "perverse nonsense feedback loop."

Birthers, Deathers, Tenthers. Beck, Palin, Limbaugh. Bachmann, Inhofe, DeMint, King, and Broun. A scorched-earth campaign intended to tear the country apart, questioning the legitimacy of the president, the government, and the rule of law. It's all very scary.

Josh Marshall recently noted, "It's always important for us to remember what the last eight years have again taught us, which is that America has a very strong civic fabric, one that can withstand, absorb and conquer all manner of ugly behavior. It can take in stride a lot of angry rhetoric, townhall fisticuffs and more. But as this escalates we should continually be stepping back and thinking retrospectively from the vantage point of the future about where this all seems to be heading."

Klein's not the only one with a sinking feeling

The crazies have a political party, a cable news network, and a loud, activist base. They're mad as hell and they're not going to take their medications anymore.

Steve Benen 4:45 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (124)

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Comments

weimar, my friends.

interesting that the corporate powers find it helpful to build the nihilistic mob to such a fervor.

perhaps the last stage of "crisis capitalism" requires the familiar banana republic police state, and the mob of psychotics is the most profitable way to get there.

who has the business plan? I'd like to just glance at it.

Posted by: neill on September 3, 2009 at 4:51 PM | PERMALINK

They're mad as hell and they're not going to take their medications anymore.

Damn, I wish I'd come up with that line.

Posted by: low-tech cyclist on September 3, 2009 at 4:54 PM | PERMALINK

All correct ... but the 'crazies' are dominating the conversation. It's bad enough they spew vile falsehoods about everything under the sun on their networks et al, but all the left does is repeat, even if for discrediting, those same views.

All we hear about is the 'crazies'. Can we start talking about everyone else.

There is something to the old adage, there is no such thing as bad PR.

STOP GIVING THE CRAZIES ALL THE TIME AND ENERGY.

Posted by: whynot on September 3, 2009 at 4:54 PM | PERMALINK

I understand people's concern. I take comfort in the fact that there are plenty of events NOT attended by people acting in uncivil manners, but still we're seeing it amplified in the news.

The thing is - to what end? There's the usual paranoid speculation of some master plan for fascism, or instituting social collapse, forgetting of course that in a crisis Obama would gain MORE power.

So I've actually come to the conclusion that the idea that this is some chesslike master plan ISN'T the case. The idea among the various groups egging these people on is to go crazy, try and intimidate, and get their way, regardless of the collateral damage. The thing is that the collateral damange could be very severe - but we're not dealing with Lex Luthor here. We're dealing with a temper tantrum.

I think the fact there's no overal Evil Plan is MORE scary to me. We're not dealing with rationality.

Posted by: Fang on September 3, 2009 at 4:54 PM | PERMALINK

It ain't that bad. Our country has seen a lot worse than this. We saw all those riots in the 1960's and 1970's and we turned out just fine. These town hall folks aren't the reason Obama's health care plan is losing ground. Obama simply did not have a consistent message. If he finds a good way to frame the debate, then he will be fine. If he does not come up with a message, then he would have lost the debate even if Rush Limbaugh had retired long ago.

Posted by: chillin out on September 3, 2009 at 4:56 PM | PERMALINK

I mentioned a few weeks back that it seemed we were headed for another civil war. At the time I said something to the effect that it all sounded crazy but.... Well it's not sounding so effing crazy anymore. Thing is I also think it's time to stop chuckling at the crazy talk from the sidelines and take it head on..even if it means meeting these people in the streets. This is a danger to our Country and society as a whole if we keep heading down this path. Better to cut the cancer out now than deal with a debilitating sickness over the long haul. I have 3 little daughters and this shit is getting scary. I am truly begining to worry about their future. The mainstream insanity is truly mind boggling.

Posted by: Ronald on September 3, 2009 at 4:57 PM | PERMALINK

Let them froth at the mouth. We need to act like ants and eat aaway at their roots. We also need Obama's oratory to act like a big gust that catches the tree's canopy.

Ants, wind and water always fell the oak in the end.

Posted by: pj in jesusland on September 3, 2009 at 4:58 PM | PERMALINK

"We" are headed for a cliff? Don't think so. What's the big surprise about Arkansas and the south being backward?

Posted by: Jerry on September 3, 2009 at 4:58 PM | PERMALINK

"The crazies have a political party, a cable news network, and a loud, activist base. They're mad as hell and they're not going to take their medications anymore".

One more thing. They're also thirsting for a leader.

Posted by: JW on September 3, 2009 at 4:59 PM | PERMALINK

This manufactured rage is fast becoming a threat to the country.

1. The MSM has to start governing itself; anyone watching would conclude we're a nation of complete idiots

2. Advertisers have to pull the plug faster on the cable rant shows that are the amplifiers of the crazies. Who among them win if the country decends into chaos?


Posted by: Jack on September 3, 2009 at 5:04 PM | PERMALINK

Well, one thing Mr. Klein can be sure of: none of this can be laid at his or his fellow professionals feet. The media has been tireless in their attempts to disseminate fact and diffuse the anger borne of confusion and misinformation.

Posted by: doubtful on September 3, 2009 at 5:05 PM | PERMALINK
We saw all those riots in the 1960's and 1970's and we turned out just fine.

Well, except for the 30 years of Republican policies that shot us into the worst depression since 1929. And the stagnant wages. And the skyrocketing cost of college and health care. And the slow deterioration of our entire infrastructure due to tax "rebellions."

Other than that, everything was just peachy until Obama came along and ruined everything!

Posted by: Mnemosyne on September 3, 2009 at 5:10 PM | PERMALINK

I have no idea how many of these crazies are out there. All I know is that here in Tennessee, the tea party instinct seems to be the majority opinion, but when I return to visit family in southern Illinois (not to be confused with Chicago), the majority there thinks the anti-Obama crap is a bunch of bullshit.

Posted by: dr sardonicus on September 3, 2009 at 5:12 PM | PERMALINK

Bring on the federal guns

...but I have a sinking feeling about where we're headed now. I hope I'm wrong.

Health Care Reform is the Civil Rights Act of our time.
And just as then so too now:

I will be happy when my Federal govt. sends in guns to enforce it. Happier yet if some of these bastards get shot dead in the process. They are an anchor on America's progress. I am tired of abiding the crazies. Tired of their dumb rage. Bring on the bulldozers. Let's go to war.


Posted by: koreyel on September 3, 2009 at 5:20 PM | PERMALINK

What really worries me is that the folks who used to be just plain Republicans are becoming the crazies. I live in Alabama and have (had) a lot of Republican friends. We used to be able to go to a bar, have a few beers, argue politics and leave at the end of the evening as friends. That's not the case anymore. A guy who used to be my best friend, college-educated, middle manager, retired and got into the Beck/Hannity/WND/Free Republic loop and it changed him. He started sending me e-mails about Obama and all the manufactured issues that the right has created. I finally asked him if he really believed al the silly crap he was sending and this was his reply:

"In short, yes I do believe and agree with a lot of the stuff I have sent out....I believe in God, Country and Family and if that makes me an angry, un-American, racist, terrorist, nazi, mob or any other of the dozen names your left-wing, Marxists/fascists, leadership wants to brand me, fine by me. But you and those running the left WILL NOT SHUT ME UP!!

Do your research on the obama czars - communist, socialist, revolutionaries, etc. advising this guy on and writing federal policy...You guys are a bunch of lying, traitorous bastards as far as I'm concerned. You hate capitalism and free market solutions thinking that big government is the answer to everything. Do you really think that once your elitist leaders take control of energy (Cap and tax) & health (government option/co-op/single payer) that they'll stop there? Hell, the banks and auto industry were a bonus. Any by the way, do you think your status will somehow be elevated in this new society? Sorry bud, hate to break the news to you but you and the rest of the progressive drones will be nothing more than 'human shields' for your parties elite when all hell breaks loose!"

The hatred, the paranoia, the outright craziness is really scary. This is the result of the poison being spread by people like Beck.

Posted by: orogeny on September 3, 2009 at 5:20 PM | PERMALINK

IDIOCRACY. Rent it. Watch it.

Posted by: Speed on September 3, 2009 at 5:20 PM | PERMALINK

This shit is no worse than what happened during Clinton's term. The only difference is that those who squirrel themselves away in the beltway like Klein and Marshall can see it all now on youtube.

Posted by: Disputo on September 3, 2009 at 5:22 PM | PERMALINK

Um, maybe the problem is that there's a whole lotta people in Arkansas (and Oklahoma, and Texas, and Alabama, and Mississippi, and well, pretty much the entire South) that are stuupit. Joke Line is just discovering that?!?!

Posted by: beezlebub on September 3, 2009 at 5:23 PM | PERMALINK

I disagree...it's far worse now that it was during the Clinton years.

Posted by: orogeny on September 3, 2009 at 5:24 PM | PERMALINK

Its not just Arkansas. Its a white trash rebellion and there are plenty of them all over the country. Watching those clowns at the Steny Hoyer town meeting on CSPAN was a real eye opener. They are thugs, and its not limited to the south. What was surprising is that the women were worse than the men. Illiterate, scared, and don't like blacks. This is about Obama, not healthcare.

Posted by: Scott F. on September 3, 2009 at 5:24 PM | PERMALINK

Tired of their dumb rage. Bring on the bulldozers. Let's go to war. -koreyel

Be careful what you wish for, especially when your opponent is far better armed.

Posted by: doubtful on September 3, 2009 at 5:26 PM | PERMALINK

Klein just *today* realized the "intensity of this getting pretty scary...and dangerous?" Head up ass, much?

Posted by: PattyP on September 3, 2009 at 5:30 PM | PERMALINK

sad to say it, doubtful, but that is exactly why i've always been somewhat ambivilent about gun control. i've always kept mine around on the off chance the Beck-driven crazies decide they want to start political/religious cleansing.

Posted by: zeitgeist on September 3, 2009 at 5:31 PM | PERMALINK

"loons"? Wasn't it a leftist Move On organizer that bite off the finger of an anti health care protester? Hmmm

Posted by: James on September 3, 2009 at 5:31 PM | PERMALINK

It's not just Arkansas; Georgia is crazy, too. And note that the article merely restates what Broun said, doesn't fact check it at all.

It's bad enough for idiots on television to be doing this sort of thing, but a member of the House? Broun makes Bachmann look like a Rhodes scholar.

Posted by: tess on September 3, 2009 at 5:33 PM | PERMALINK

We know that the tea parties and town-hells were ginned up by the GOP and its supporters. What I want to know is the motivation and what they think is the political endgame.

A big turnaround in the mid-terms and reclaiming the presidency in 2012 seems likely. But, when I adjust the tinfoil hat I worry about more sinister machinations. People that indulge in the sort of rhetoric and political tactics we've witnessed since the President's inaugaration are not restrained by civic norms.

Posted by: AK Liberal on September 3, 2009 at 5:36 PM | PERMALINK

People, this country is so far gone into Fox Pornoland and God Wants You to be a Millionaire and "Ow! My Balls" Reality TV, it is just about hopeless. Americans have been brainwashed for so long most of them don't have any critical thinking skills left.

Posted by: Speed on September 3, 2009 at 5:39 PM | PERMALINK

In your world view is Van Jones a "loon" for claiming "whites" are intentionally polluting black neighborhoods, is a 9/11 truther and who, by the way, is President Obama's Green Czar? If there is any racism in the air, a lot of it seems to be coming from the White House, don't you think?

Posted by: henry on September 3, 2009 at 5:41 PM | PERMALINK

Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch! Blame Rupert Murdoch!

Posted by: Quiddity on September 3, 2009 at 5:44 PM | PERMALINK

In your world view is Van Jones a "loon" for claiming "whites" are intentionally polluting black neighborhoods

So the green czar knows about environmental racism?

Good.

Posted by: JM on September 3, 2009 at 5:45 PM | PERMALINK

henry - I take it your from Arkansas.

Posted by: Scott F. on September 3, 2009 at 5:46 PM | PERMALINK

I disagree...it's far worse now that it was during the Clinton years.

Wingnut militia's organizing across the country to do battle against the Feds and the soon-to-take-over UN? Bombing abortion clinics, the Olympics games, and 150 dead in a federal building? And the response of the congress to OKC was to legitimate the militia nuts by inviting them to testify as to their concerns?

Give me a call when it gets that bad.

Posted by: Disputo on September 3, 2009 at 5:46 PM | PERMALINK

I saw the below post on ABC Politics. Is this an example of what you consider some one wearing a "tin hat" when it comes to concerns about health care reform?

"The House Bill cuts MEDICARE BY 500 BILLION DOLLARS. No wonder there is a lot of talk about "Death Panels". The government made promises to the elderly need to be kept and not broken by making drastic cuts to Medicare which will most likely result in denying life saving services.

Promises made to the Native Americans by treaty are also being broken by the government. JUST LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH GOVERNMENT RUN SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE ON THE INDIAN RESERVATIONS WHICH IS A FAILURE. Go to two articles in the Huffington Post by Tim Giago: (1) Indian Health Care: A National Tragedy and (2) How will Universal Health Care Affect Native Americans. The articles show in very human terms how Government run health care on the Indian Reservations is an absolute failure. To quote from the above article. "If you think the government can solve all of our problems ask an Indian."

A government takeover of health care will only make things worse. Services For the Elderly Will Have To Be Cut, The Deficit Will Go Up, Taxes and Fees Will Go Up and the Quality of Health Care Will Go Down. Health Care Reform Is All About All Pain For No Gain.

Bottom Line, The Government Can Never Be Trusted To Keep Their Promises. Just Ask An Indian."


Posted by: Terry on September 3, 2009 at 5:49 PM | PERMALINK

Much of this crazy shit started during the 2008 campaign with the aid of Palin. It only take a few megaphones to stir up a pot of shit. I would hazard a guess, that at the very root of it all is the tax increase that hangs over the heads of the wealthy. Much of the hate during the Clinton years began when he raised taxes on the rich. There is money behind this madness. Some are investing in it and some, like Beck, are raking it in. And the cable channels have got their lips on the titty too. And very sadly, there really are a bunch of dumb, TV, booze, drug, and nonsense addled addicts out there. Really out there. The Jerry Springer graduating class, please stand up and show us some shit!

Posted by: lou on September 3, 2009 at 5:49 PM | PERMALINK

i've always kept [my gun] around on the off chance the Beck-driven crazies decide they want to start political/religious cleansing. -zeitgeist

That's why I always have a crossbow with me.

Anyone can pull out a gun, but nobody messes with the bad ass with a crossbow.

:P

Posted by: doubtful on September 3, 2009 at 5:50 PM | PERMALINK

Its not just Arkansas. Its a white trash rebellion and there are plenty of them all over the country. Watching those clowns at the Steny Hoyer town meeting on CSPAN was a real eye opener. They are thugs, and its not limited to the south. What was surprising is that the women were worse than the men. Illiterate, scared, and don't like blacks. This is about Obama, not healthcare.

Posted by: Scott F.

The last refuge of the scoundrel. Everybody who disagrees with you is a thug. Amazing.

Posted by: Mike K on September 3, 2009 at 5:51 PM | PERMALINK

Everybody who disagrees with you is a thug.

The straw man is the first refuge of an idiot.

Posted by: JM on September 3, 2009 at 5:53 PM | PERMALINK

"loons"? Wasn't it a leftist Move On organizer that bite off the finger of an anti health care protester? Hmmm

After the guy knocked him flat and was beating him to a pulp in the street while the crowd of Birthers stood around doing nothing, yes.

Posted by: cld on September 3, 2009 at 5:56 PM | PERMALINK

Terry, Nothing you say is true. The government is all good and has our best interests at heart and will take care of all our needs if we just do what they say. The reason health care is so poor on the Indian Reservations is because of their life style, alcoholism, etc,. The elderly don't deserve to get what the government promised them anyway. They are mostly white. Get it?

Posted by: Annie on September 3, 2009 at 5:57 PM | PERMALINK

Joe "Primary Colors by Anonymous" Klein is a pseudo-intellectual Beltway fraud whose finger forever and always gauging the presently prevailing political winds. Seriously, other than his fellow fawning Villagers, who really gives a flying fuck what he thinks?

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on September 3, 2009 at 6:01 PM | PERMALINK
Mike K: "The last refuge of the scoundrel. Everybody who disagrees with you is a thug. Amazing."

Whatever, clown.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on September 3, 2009 at 6:05 PM | PERMALINK

Anyone can pull out a gun, but nobody messes with the bad ass with a crossbow.

Huh. They're both for candyasses. Y'all haven't seen scared until you've witnessed a winger thug backing away in horror as I brandish my purse-size Epilady.*

*with gratitude to Sparkle Hayter

Posted by: shortstop on September 3, 2009 at 6:08 PM | PERMALINK

To the people on these posts, you sound like the "loons" to me. No wonder people are concerned about who is influencing President Obama and thus voicing their concerns in town hall meetings. Especially if you all think Jones belief in "environmental racism" is not at all loony. In any event, I am letting all my friends know about your site so they can see for themselves how "looney" the left really is. Otherwise they would not be able to comprehend just how many people there are on the left wearing "tin hats".

Posted by: NotALoon on September 3, 2009 at 6:08 PM | PERMALINK

PattyP: Klein just *today* realized the "intensity of this getting pretty scary...and dangerous?" Head up ass, much?

Why, yes, but the view up there is simply wunderbar!

Posted by: Joke Line on September 3, 2009 at 6:09 PM | PERMALINK

Everybody who disagrees with you is a thug.

Oh, certainly not. You, for example, are too weak and incompetent to pull off thuggery. We think of you as more of a slug -- icky when you meet it, but the soft slimy underbelly turns out to be the whole story.

Posted by: shortstop on September 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM | PERMALINK

In any event, I am letting all my friends know about your site so they can see for themselves how "looney" the left really is

"Good" idea. Send them "right over" to share their "thoughts" with us. They'll be "welcome."

Posted by: shortstop on September 3, 2009 at 6:12 PM | PERMALINK
NotALoon: "In any event, I am letting all my friends know about your site so they can see for themselves how 'looney' the left really is."

You and your friends sound like you're all straight out of central casting for a David Lynch film.

Posted by: Donald from Hawaii on September 3, 2009 at 6:15 PM | PERMALINK

Oh,

And then the poor suffering American victim had his finger reattached by a government run socialized bureaucratic death panel,

Medicare.

Posted by: cld on September 3, 2009 at 6:18 PM | PERMALINK

Donald from Hawaii, You just made my point, you sound like a "loon" to me and a "David Lynch" film is where you belong. In a role in an insane asylum that is.

Posted by: NotALoon on September 3, 2009 at 6:21 PM | PERMALINK

cld, You got it wrong. If President Obama gets his way, the guy who lost his finger would have to wait in line for months to get that finger reattached, if ever. As in stands now, pre Obamacare, he got the finger reattached right away.

Posted by: Mary on September 3, 2009 at 6:24 PM | PERMALINK

I know you are but what am I?

Republicans --can't see past their own mirrors.

Posted by: cld on September 3, 2009 at 6:24 PM | PERMALINK

Mary,

Why?

Posted by: cld on September 3, 2009 at 6:25 PM | PERMALINK

[threats of violence, implied or otherwise, are not tolerated - mod.]

Posted by: BDJ on September 3, 2009 at 6:26 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop, you'd piss your pants if face-to-face.

Well, you know, I did once, when I was mugged. Perfectly natural human response to intense fear. The kind you're going to feel when the men in black show up at your door, should the moderators of this and other blogs be inclined to report your IP for making direct and hilariously adolescent threats at people who are openly laughing at you.

The smart ones don't make threats online, son. Don't let your poor impulse control ruin your life.

Posted by: shortstop on September 3, 2009 at 6:33 PM | PERMALINK

BDJ --Big Dumb Jerk --That is a deep, deep thought.

Threatening to hurt and injure someone necessarily proves your point.

Posted by: cld on September 3, 2009 at 6:35 PM | PERMALINK

Oh, god, please let this be the Mary. We could use the belly laughs.

Posted by: shortstop on September 3, 2009 at 6:35 PM | PERMALINK

Birthers, Deathers, Tenthers. Beck, Palin, Limbaugh. Bachmann, Inhofe, DeMint, King, and Broun. A scorched-earth campaign intended to tear the country apart, questioning the legitimacy of the president, the government, and the rule of law. It's all very scary.
=============================
if you mantra has been for decades the "Government is the Problem" then it stands to reason that at some point you have to make the attempt to TOPPLE the suystem of governance!

I think the folks from The Weather Underground are quite hopeful that the Republicans have come around to their former way of thinking.

I know Bin Laden is cheering on the GOP!

Posted by: Moxo on September 3, 2009 at 6:39 PM | PERMALINK

To rip off Run DMC ripping off the Monkees -- Mary, Mary, why you buggin'?

Gawd, but I get the tingles every time I get to go old school & meta.

Posted by: junebug on September 3, 2009 at 6:39 PM | PERMALINK

If you had to wait months to have your finger reattached because you were a victim of Osamahitlercare, could you improve the finger's chances of preservation if you put it in an airtight jar with McDonalds fries? Must remember to ask Morgan Spurlock this.

Posted by: shortstop on September 3, 2009 at 6:44 PM | PERMALINK

BDJ:
Oh, man, seriously? An internet tough guy? This is like a mullet-sighting, or finding an old pair of MC Hammer pants in the attic. Can I have your autograph? Do you have a Friendster account and a case of Crystal Pepsi?

Awesome.

Posted by: J on September 3, 2009 at 6:48 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop, I have always been courteous here and have tried to engage some of you in reasonable debate. Your response is typical (I won't bother to quote it) but has it ever occurred to you that you and like minded folks might be a small minority ? I understand they have excellent health care in Cuba.

Posted by: Mike K on September 3, 2009 at 6:48 PM | PERMALINK

"The crazies have a political party, a cable news network, and a loud, activist base." They are also buying weapons and ammunition like they are going out of style. This is a potent mixture and needs to be dealt with before it goes too far. These folks are nuts.

Posted by: Regis on September 3, 2009 at 6:49 PM | PERMALINK

In the 19th century it took Southern Senators 40 years of pushing bullsh*t until they had managed to get the non-slave owners of the South to believe that civilization required slavery.
Through the miracle of modern technology however, the present Republican Party has managed to do the same feat (with different beliefs, sort of) in 8 months. And everyone says the GOP is technologically-challenged!

Posted by: Doug on September 3, 2009 at 6:49 PM | PERMALINK

A clear and present danger

Posted by: John C Mccutchen on September 3, 2009 at 6:52 PM | PERMALINK

Steve: Or maybe it's not just Arkansas and there's something very wrong with our political system, put under a serious strain by the "conservative lunatic brigade," stuck in a "perverse nonsense feedback loop."

I'll go with the latter - it isn't just Arkansas. The loons are everywhere and are increasingly emboldened. As Klein said, there used to be a brake on the behavior of those in the fringe element but now they're being legitimized by a lot of "authority" figures. They are just being used of course by the GOP, Fox News and corporate interests. But the enablers of these antics may not fully understand what they're unleashing on the nation. Once the loons gain enough momentum, they'll devour everybody, including the ones who originally set them loose.

Posted by: Taobhan on September 3, 2009 at 7:00 PM | PERMALINK

I understand they have excellent health care in Cuba.

Sure.

Also Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, France, Switzerland, Japan, Germany. . . .

but it would be criminal in the US. It would make baby Jesus cry.

Posted by: cld on September 3, 2009 at 7:00 PM | PERMALINK

The definitive word on Mike K

shortstop, I have always been courteous here and have tried to engage some of you in reasonable debate.

Liar.

What you posted on the Edward Kennedy eulogy thread should have caused you to be permanently banned. The lack of decency was stunning. Instead the monitor just slit your throat on that post. If I was in charge, your throat would be permanently slit.

You are a dirty Limbaugh dog.
That is all.

Posted by: koreyel on September 3, 2009 at 7:05 PM | PERMALINK

As in stands now, pre Obamacare, he got the finger reattached right away.

Yes, according to the AP wire story, the 65 year-old has Medicare and used it.

Mary, have you ever met Maria Bartiromo?

Posted by: Dwight on September 3, 2009 at 7:07 PM | PERMALINK

I understand they have excellent health care in Cuba.

Well, nearly identical outcomes to ours at about 1/25th the cost, certainly. There's excellent healthcare in many countries, Mike. This isn't one of them.

You're not in any kind of position to be speaking about other countries' healthcare systems, though, are you? trex exposed your near-total ignorance of the most basic facts on this topic the other night (start here and read down). Damn, that was mortifying for you -- and you're a doctor, aren't you? For someone who pules constantly about not being provided with "reasonable debate," you daily demonstrate your failure to grasp the simplest facts about your own field, not to mention almost every other topic you blow hard about.

Only your incredible ability to promptly filter out embarrassing or unpleasant thoughts protects you from the abject humiliation anyone else would feel after giving encore performances like yours.

Posted by: shortstop on September 3, 2009 at 7:19 PM | PERMALINK

I'll go with the latter - it isn't just Arkansas. The loons are everywhere and are increasingly emboldened.

Yeah but...I went to high school in Russellville, Arkansas, and it was the most racist place I ever lived. It's reactionary, poor, ill-educated, and very very fundamentalist. It's the kerosene of stupid just waiting for the match of a Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh. So while there may be loons everywhere, few places are as looney as Russellville Arkansas. We're talking illiterate crazed hill people there in large numbers. And the crazier they are, the more likely they are to show up whenever there's going to be a soapbox.

So yeah, it's bad. But it's not nearly that bad in most places.

Posted by: Jennifer on September 3, 2009 at 7:21 PM | PERMALINK

Apparently the frootbat lost his finger after all.

Ten bucks they start waving the bloody finger calling it a failure of Medicare.

Posted by: cld on September 3, 2009 at 7:27 PM | PERMALINK

You are a dirty Limbaugh dog.
That is all.

Posted by: koreyel

And your earlier post is serving well as an example of the left's emotional state right now. Thank you.

As for Kennedy, I don't recall what I posted but I'm sure it was a euphemism for my real opinion of him. I wouldn't post that so soon after his death. He was a distant cousin, by the way.

Posted by: Mike K on September 3, 2009 at 7:28 PM | PERMALINK

Wait!

Now it apparently was re-attached, despite what the guy said on Fox News,

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/finger-biting-victim-speaks----to-a-reverent-neil-cavuto.php?ref=fpa

Posted by: cld on September 3, 2009 at 7:30 PM | PERMALINK

After JFK's assassination, John Kenneth Galbraith and Arthur Schlesinger, Jr, spoke out against the right wing extremist attitude that was fostered by the media and others in Dallas that was fueled the events leading to JFK's assassination.

That extremist attitude is now all over the US, thanks to the Republican party. The question is, Will their extremism lead to another assassination? More and more, it looks like it is just a matter of time.

Posted by: Bob M on September 3, 2009 at 7:37 PM | PERMALINK

Are there any more communist marksmen around ? You seem to forget who Lee Harvey Oswald was. It's a shame that it messes up your narrative to know he was a fellow lefty.

The violence at these rallies is mostly from the left, as well. The SEIU is all over you-tube and will be prominent on TV in October 2010.

Posted by: Mike K on September 3, 2009 at 7:43 PM | PERMALINK

Are there any more communist marksmen around ?

No idea, but do you actually know what "communist" means, or do you think it's a euphemism for "fascist" like the undereducated and overemotional teabaggers you're so proud to count yourself among?

That's quite a crowd of friends you've chosen for yourself. You're now officially a redneck M.D., someone a traditional conservative with reputable friends wouldn't be caught dead with.

Posted by: Tom K on September 3, 2009 at 7:51 PM | PERMALINK

This bout of potentially violent right wing extremism has been brewing for some time but it did not have to show its fangs because since 1994 the right has been in control of the government -- and even during the Clinton years the more extreme right pressed for a partisan coup d'etat against the rest of America's choice for president. But now that they are no longer in control they no longer think it is their country, and just like their Southern Plantation Bourbon elite in the 1860s they are trying to separate from us to carve out a space that puts them back in the drivers seat. The Texas seccessionists have captured the prevailing GOP mindset perfectly, even if most don't go so far as to actually advocate dissovling the union.

Posted by: Ted Frier on September 3, 2009 at 8:01 PM | PERMALINK

Notice how the media ranters -- Limbaugh, Beck, etc. -- generally do monologues in the privacy of their studios. They fail as intellectuals when engaged in real debate with informed opponents.
Look how stupid Bartiromo sounded in one simple conversation with Rep. Weiner on CNBC.

We need to remind people these talking heads are entertainers, not policy experts. Most US TV and radio news is Entertainment, not a reasoned policy discussion.

Dancing With The Stars is the perfect place for people like Tom DeLay. Let's see if he can put his foot someplace other than in his mouth.

Posted by: pj in jesusland on September 3, 2009 at 8:29 PM | PERMALINK

Glenn Beck is like a furry white caterpillar who's been attacked and had all his fur shaved off.

Posted by: cld on September 3, 2009 at 8:55 PM | PERMALINK

No idea, but do you actually know what "communist" means, or do you think it's a euphemism for "fascist" like the undereducated and overemotional teabaggers you're so proud to count yourself among?

I think a guy who moved to the Soviet Union and renounced his citizenship might qualify. What do you think ? Actually, the comment about euphemism for fascist isn't far from the truth. They are both socialist in origin. Mussolini edited a socialist newspaper in the 1920s.

Posted by: Mike K on September 3, 2009 at 9:09 PM | PERMALINK
Posted by: reliapundit on September 3, 2009 at 9:43 PM | PERMALINK

TIMOTHY GEITHNER

LAWRENCE SUMMERS

ROBERT GATES

GANG OF SIX

RAY LAHOOD

JON HUNTSMAN

HIS 6TH COUSIN TWICE REMOVED

ALL WALL STREET CEOS

OBAMA EMBODIES THE EXTREME WASHINGTON CONSENSUS AND THE WASHING MACHINE

HOW LOVELY

(How were my CAPS, guys?)


Posted by: reliapunkass on September 3, 2009 at 9:57 PM | PERMALINK

Reliapundit:

Anyone who believes that any of the people you mentioned are a threat to the United States or to any of us personally, has a serious cognitive deficit problem. I am not going to rebut you specifically on these people, as anyone on this site is perfectly capable of googling them on his/her own. If you do so, you will discover just how respectable most of them are, and how contributory some of them have been to humanity's overall welfare, in particular Rashid Khaliji.

Posted by: Wolfdaughter on September 3, 2009 at 10:12 PM | PERMALINK

Mike K., Like a rock, only dumber.

Posted by: In what respect, Charlie? on September 3, 2009 at 10:23 PM | PERMALINK

And we have guns...

Posted by: Alexander Muse on September 3, 2009 at 10:55 PM | PERMALINK

You know, this thread shows a great difference between left and right.

During Bush's term, he actually ADMITTED to violating the 4th Amendment. He ADMITTED to authorizing torture in violation of federal law. They ADMITTED to hiring government employees based on politics, not qualifications. They ADMITTED to violating the Hatch Act.

Add in people getting arrested (not just asked to leave, but handcuffed and sent to jail) for having anti-Bush shirts or bumper stickers, real violations of voting laws, and a whole host of other issues, and we on the left had legitimate, provable complaints against Bush.

And yet we were the crazy ones? Really?

We're headed down a dangerous, deadly road, folks. Just look at BDJ -- he is the GOP now. There are no moderates left. There are no intellectuals welcome. There is just willful stupidity and threats of violence. Over ... health care.

Not going to war. Not illegally wiretapping every American. Not yucking it up while a city drowned. Not torturing innocent people to death. Not $1.2 trillion handed to the upper 1%.

Health. Care.

From the party that claims to love Jesus, no less.

Think about that for a second, and wonder whose side he'd really be on ...

Posted by: Mark D on September 3, 2009 at 11:18 PM | PERMALINK

The bloody finger re-un-attaches,

because the guy wouldn't let them sew it back on.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/how-many-fingers-does-health-rally-bite-victim-have.php?ref=fpblg


Maybe I'll wait for the Independent Counsel's report.

Posted by: cld on September 3, 2009 at 11:51 PM | PERMALINK

I agree with the sentiments that the beast should be starved. Stop engaging the idiotic memes and let them die on the vine. Liberal blogs like this one have spent the last 6 months screeching about this nonsense and avoiding real issues. Want to know why no one knows what the hell the health care plan is? Because blogs like PA would rather spend all day screeching about Glen Beck, Mark Sanford, Sarah Palin, et al. instead of informing readers about progressive issues.

Talk about issues and advance your own agenda instead of stupid scare tactics that pit people against one another. Engaging hatred with hatred only perpetuates the cycle.

Posted by: grinning cat on September 4, 2009 at 12:34 AM | PERMALINK

All that is known about this HC bill has been posted on this site.

The corporatists cannot stand anybody being in power but them. They cannot tolerate other points of view. They go nuts when they fall out of power in gov.

For the Beckshirts consider this: The War of the Worlds when it appeared on radio a large number of citizens thought we were being invaded by martians and began acting as though we were. It's the same mentality being cultivated by Fox and cohorts only they've been scripting it for years now. They think they are rich enough and powerful enough that they will not be affected by what they are cultivating but soon they will also just be running around in it rather than running it. They will be unable to hide from what they incited. ie. O'Reilly will pay for Tiller's death eventually.

We are the gov...we are the majority and if the majority in this country decide they want a socialist democracy these loons who rave against what they think America is 'supposed' to be are actually enemies of democracy where the citizens decide by a majority vote how we are to proceed. These thugs only want their way and refuse to accept what the majority wants. They lost the election and can't stand it so now are willing to take it to the streets to intimidate the majority into complacency.

Here is vice president Wallace's description in 1944 of how those in power refuse to give it up regardless of what the majority wants.

"American fascism will not be really dangerous, until there is a purposeful coalition among the cartelists, the deliberate poisoners of public information…”

“They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection.”

FDR sums it up during his reelection campaign:
"“…Out of this modern civilization, economic royalists [have] carved new dynasties…. It was natural and perhaps human that the privileged princes of these new economic dynasties, thirsting for power, reached out for control over government itself. They created a new despotism and wrapped it in the robes of legal sanction…. And as a result the average man once more confronts the problem that faced the Minute Man….”
Speaking indirectly of the fascists that Wallace would directly name almost a decade later, Roosevelt brought the issue to its core:
“These economic royalists complain that we seek to overthrow the institutions of America. What they really complain of is that we seek to take away their power.”
But, he thundered in that speech:
“Our allegiance to American institutions requires the overthrow of this kind of power!”


Now the republican crazies are trying to make the democratically elected government the enemy that must be stopped, hoping this will return them to power when all it will succeed in doing is tearing the nation apart turning citizen against citizen by cultivating anger and divisiveness. They are mad at what Bush caused and left but are directing their anger onto Obama when after the disaster Bush caused and left us they should be telling all those involved in bringing about our economic condition to just STFU not listening to them. Do they really want more tax cuts for the wealthy and Bush/Cheney back...these 27%ers are lost and sick. They truly are crazy so don't turn your back on them.

Posted by: bjobotts on September 4, 2009 at 1:35 AM | PERMALINK

Me, I'm back in the local movie theater on a Saturday afternoon in the 1950's, a kid watching those dopey Universal westerns where the lynch mob was forming to bust open the jail and put a rope around some unfortunates neck.

The difference is that in those days I used to be able to get up and walk out into the afternoon sunlight.

Posted by: Squeaky McCrinkle on September 4, 2009 at 2:30 AM | PERMALINK

All this time (and a good old fashioned education) I thought the federal government had no business sticking their noses into anything other than was was allowed under the Constitution and that anything else (abortion, gay marriage, health care etc) was considered a "states rights" issue. That's what this entire thing is, a states rights issue. If the people of an individual state vote for and pass it, providing it doesn't violate either state or federal law they've got it. Why is the federal government wasting their time and our money on an issue that does not concern them?

Posted by: Jim02351 on September 4, 2009 at 5:01 AM | PERMALINK

The thing that I notice about all of these left/right discussions is how the left never actually addresses what the right believes. You laugh that Beck calls Van Jones a communist, you laugh at anyone who believes it, you used that as evidence of not only Beck's stupidity but the others... yet you never tell us why it's not true. Ayn Rand called this "the argument from intimidation". It's all bluster. It's insulting. Instead of making fun of people who think differently than you, why not try to figure out why? Instead of rant after rant about how stupid everyone is, why not a nice post about why Obama's 44 czars shouldn't be considered radical? And, as for "communist": quite a few of them self-identify as such.

Posted by: jrobinson on September 4, 2009 at 5:11 AM | PERMALINK

America has a very strong civic fabric, one that can withstand, absorb and conquer all manner of ugly behavior.

I wonder what the criteria is of 'civic fabric survival' of those who say things like this? What evidence exists that the civic fabric has in fact survived?

Inasmuch as a small openly and obviously violently, insidiously deranged percentage of the population exert influence way beyond their numbers, and in fact control and dominate the discussion, the FACTS, and the social outcomes, either the civic social fabric has NOT survived, or the criteria of civic survival is so low that its a highly questionable definition.

Remember, beside the current beserkitude of people fighting health care reform based on bald faced lies and distortions, this is a society still openly debating the merits of torture, still accepting of harboring war criminals, still accepting of outrageous violations of civil rights, the rule of law and moral decency by its government, still promoting a staggering inequality of living standards among its citizens pushing ever greater numbers of its members into sub-survival status while a very few live in opulence and pursue greed that is nothing short of indecent.

Posted by: pluege on September 4, 2009 at 5:23 AM | PERMALINK

(He found an "astonishing" number of attendees who were absolutely certain that President Obama has "larded the government with communists.)

Just use Van Jones as an example,,,, it shows the 'attendees' are right. Klien can guzzle Obuma's koolaid by the gallon, just don't expect me to.

Posted by: Johnathan on September 4, 2009 at 6:25 AM | PERMALINK

I'm happy to see so many posts on the subject.

I agree with orogency and some of the others that this is quite scary and we DO look like idiots in the eyes of the world.

People visit here from Europe, or Australia and they think we are absolutely insane not to have healthcare as a given in a rich society like this.

And all the Repubs that are now off the deep end -- it does make me think there could be a Civil War.

Actually, I think the South and midwest could easily be written off. The two Coasts seem to have the most sane thinkers, tho the S. and MW would have you believe we're all communist/fascists.

One of the most unsettling things, personally, is that a Repub woman I know in Louisiana has for a while now been sending me religious screeds, anti-Obama screeds, and "I'm for God and country" b.s. I've asked her not to send me that stuff. Before this, she was anti-Clinton, but I'd say she's upped the rhetoric.

The fact is she is NOT for this country, obviously, but BELIEVES she is because of Rush Limbaugh, etc.

My feeling is that education is so bad now, the media does NOT do its job putting truth to power (even fact checking!), that the US has a huge number of stupid, religious people. (This is not to say all stupid people are religious or all religious are stupid. But so often they are a rather lethal combination).

I'd just assume they secede... I hear TX wants to. GREAT! Let them live with their Waco's and Christian state religion. I just want nothing to do with them any more.

Posted by: Clem on September 4, 2009 at 6:25 AM | PERMALINK

"White trash rebellion"

That one is going viral. You know why? Because it will energize opposition to government run health care even more. That is the kind of thing that will help keep the energy up until the mid terms, thanks for that. I can tell you that because I know you can't hear me.

Posted by: toolofsomesort on September 4, 2009 at 6:42 AM | PERMALINK

I think a guy who moved to the Soviet Union and renounced his citizenship might qualify. What do you think ?

I think no one's disputing that Oswald was a communist, dumbshit. You've now come up with one 46-year-old example of a lefty assassin to bolster your argument that we're seething with violence. And you actually believe you scored a point here.

As for your comment about fascism being socialism: all right; now we understand why you're a teabagger. You're simply stupid enough to qualify. Bone-crunchingly ignorant.

Posted by: Tom K on September 4, 2009 at 6:56 AM | PERMALINK

THAT YOU LIBERALS CAN'T SEE WHAT'S GOING ON IS ENCOURAGING. JUST KEEP MAKING FUN OF OTHERS, UNTIL YOU HAVE NO POWER LEFT. WE WILL FIX WHAT YOU HAVE DONE AND REBUILD AMERICA.

Posted by: Randall Keininger on September 4, 2009 at 7:00 AM | PERMALINK

And, as for "communist": quite a few of them self-identify as such.

Really? Who? Put up the links or STFU. Mindlessly bleating Glenn Beck's unsupported accusations doesn't fly here.

Posted by: Tom K on September 4, 2009 at 7:01 AM | PERMALINK

Mark D: Health. Care. From the party that claims to love Jesus, no less.


europeans spend less for health care...

and they live longer..

gop 2009: spend more and die younger...for freedom

got it..


Posted by: mr. irony on September 4, 2009 at 7:38 AM | PERMALINK

I agree with Qiddity--"Blame Rupert Murdoch!" He has made the television snooze programs the equivalent of those grocery store tabloids. For years he propogated lies about Hilary's Lesbian sex parties and Bill's triple murder in the Whiute House Rose garden. He did it right under the banner headlines about Elvis being reborn as a martian love child and Michael Jackson as having had a sex change.
We let him get away with those lies thinking no one would believe them. But someone bought all those papers. He never had any affection for the truth then, and he doesn't now--he just has a louder microphone to spew his lies.

Posted by: candideinnc on September 4, 2009 at 8:15 AM | PERMALINK

"The crazies have a political party, a cable news network, and a loud, activist base."

Actually they have almost the entire media, except Fox.

Posted by: exceptfox on September 4, 2009 at 8:15 AM | PERMALINK

Civil war? What in the world are you people talking about? Passionate, loud, raucous political gatherings are GOOD for democracy, not bad. (Active repression and thuggery, alright, that's bad.) These are manifestations of a polity that's unified and confident in its form of government.

Shouting, loud disagreements, even yelling at public officials--especially yelling at public officials--all good. Worry about a civil war when people STOP attending meetings and engaging in public debate, argument, shouting, and furious letters-to-the-editor.

For lovers of democracy, it's great to see people so engaged on such a critical issue. And these people are starved for more information. Several commentators have noted that there's a lot of name-calling in place of debate in this thread, so I would challenge someone to address an issue that's troubling to the people opposed to the Democrats' health proposals. Be as angry as you'd like, just answer with some form of genuine logical rigor.

Posted by: Joe Y on September 4, 2009 at 8:27 AM | PERMALINK

I would challenge someone to address an issue that's troubling to the people opposed to the Democrats' health proposals.

You're new here, so do your homework and review past threads in this blog. There's plenty of what you ask for here, but only a boor charges into a new community and demands to be handed what he's too lazy to look for himself.

Shouting, loud disagreements, even yelling at public officials--especially yelling at public officials--all good.

You apparently are completely unable to measure, or perhaps simply uninterested in, quality of debate. Of course "yelling at public officials" is good -- when it involves factual, supportable criticism. Teabaggers waving Hitler signs, screaming about Marxist-fascist-Islamist threats (yes, they're that ignorant of history, politics and world religion), putting out "wanted for treason" signs on their own Olympia Snowe because she's actually negotiating on HC legislation, screeching about euthanasia and death panels, demonstrating no understanding of the difference between a public option and government-run healthcare, and generally making complete asses of themselves repeating debunked winger talking points -- all that may pass for political engagement in your world. Among grownups, it's called a mass temper tantrum by the willfully ignorant.

These people aren't interested in democracy. By their own admission, they're interested in shutting down any and all HC reform efforts and preventing any discussion of same. I see no reason to disbelieve their own statements in this regard.

Posted by: shortstop on September 4, 2009 at 9:21 AM | PERMALINK

Surely, there are a few over the top people in an audience of many, but generally we are just a group of people who genuinely believe that the government is going too far, that it is ime to reduce the size of government not expand it's size. Politicians are driving the country to the brink of financial collapse and the wise people amongst us say: STOP BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE! So far there is one admitted Communist,a few registered Socialist along with a cadre of far left leaners including Obama in the administration. I hope we are still allowed to protest that in America. We are a center/right country and when that equalibrium is upset, people get nervous. That is what is going on at the townhalls and many columnists would like to spin it as just a room full of crazies. It just isn't true.

Posted by: Bea on September 4, 2009 at 9:21 AM | PERMALINK

We are a center/right country and when that equalibrium is upset, people get nervous.

What's got you illiterate Beck parroters nervous is the realization that, on all major issues, America is measurably a center-left country. Better start dealing with it. Despite the loudness of your shrieking, you are not a majority, and your getting shellacked in a couple of elections does not constitute your personal oppression.

Posted by: shortstop on September 4, 2009 at 9:32 AM | PERMALINK

If you truly believe that America is a center-right country, then you should have no problem with Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, or the majority of Democrats.

Posted by: dr sardonicus on September 4, 2009 at 10:06 AM | PERMALINK

So, what do you have to do to be one of these IDIOT posters? Sleep with Keith Olbermans' underpants over your face? Why so many CZARS? Is it because it's the only way that Jeramiah Wrights' boy, can get these Left Wing FREAKS in to place? You're all going after Glenn Beck. I haven't heard him accuse anybody of anything, without PROOF. He shows us what THEY'VE WRITTEN. He let's us hear THEIR OWN WORDS, coming out of THEIR OWN MOUTHS. He's absolutely right. You have EYES, but you won't see. And you have EARS, but you won't listen. Exekiel Emanuel Mengela wants to put Sterilization compounds in the DRINKING WATER. He believes that the GOVERNMENT should DICTATE the number of children you can have. That IDIOT, JONES, STILL BELIEVES that George Bush was behind 911. Mr. Chu, the world famous Global Warming Czar, wants everybody to paint their roofs white. His FCC Chairman thinks that the "Glorious Revolution" of Hugo Chavez was almost undone by the Media in Venezuala. It was only thanks to the Governments' NATIONALIZATION of the RADIO and TEVISION STATIONS that Chavez' "Glorious Revolution" was able to succeed. What part of this don't you understand? Now he intends to address the CHILDREN while they're at school. It seems that our DEAR LEADER, HERR OBAMA, will attempt to indoctrinate our children, as they're locked in their classrooms, and fill their heads with his dreams of the Fatherland. SEIG HEIL! SEIG HEIL! SEIG HEIL! It's funny how this stuff just keeps coming back. We have WARS to end these OPPRESSIVE REGIMES, to protect our FREEDOM, and yet, every Generation, it seems, another Barak Obama type rears his ugly head, and thinks that HE knows best. And INSISTS, that HIS WILL BE DONE. So, here we go again.

Posted by: Timothy L. Pennell on September 4, 2009 at 10:18 AM | PERMALINK

We have WARS to end these OPPRESSIVE REGIMES, to protect our FREEDOM...

So what the fuck are you waiting for, man? You're a tough guy, just grab your AK-47 off the wall, head out the front door, and get it on!

Posted by: dr sardonicus on September 4, 2009 at 10:33 AM | PERMALINK

Shortstop: I'm not new to this thread or site, but I hardly ever have time to post. I'm sorry to say that you've proven my point better than I could ever have done myself. With so many supporters such as yourself, it's difficult to foresee that health care reform is ever going to get anywhere.

Hey! You're not an covertly anti-Obama agent provocateur, are you? That would make sense.

Posted by: Joe Y on September 4, 2009 at 10:34 AM | PERMALINK

You conveniently forgot truthers and code pinkers. The left has been throwing up 8 years of pure unadulterated hate-speech with respect to bush. The level of vitriol served up to obama doesn't even register when compared to that.

Look in the mirror left, you are the worst of the problem.

Posted by: dude1394 on September 4, 2009 at 11:08 AM | PERMALINK

Exekiel [sic] Emanuel Mengela [sic] wants to put Sterilization compounds in the DRINKING WATER.

In a stellar post by one of a world-class group of complete whack jobs, this is by far the most beautiful lunatic raving I've seen. It's going to be hard to top this artistry.

Yes, they're starved for information, Joe. But they're simultaneously on a hunger strike.

Posted by: shortstop on September 4, 2009 at 11:16 AM | PERMALINK
You conveniently forgot truthers and code pinkers. The left has been throwing up 8 years of pure unadulterated hate-speech with respect to bush. The level of vitriol served up to obama doesn't even register when compared to that.

Really?

How many of those folks were on teevee night after night after night?

How many truther bills were brought up on the floor of Congress?

How many elected Democratic official praised the truthers and Code Pinkers as being great Americans?

How many truthers and Code Pinkers showed up at Bush events with loaded weapons?

Once again, nothing on the left comes remotely close to what you willfully ignorant twits on the right come up with on a daily basis, and how the media covers it all breathlessly.

Again, show me a single fucking link from any of these people who were on the news night after night after night after night.

Surely, there are a few over the top people in an audience of many, but generally we are just a group of people who genuinely believe that the government is going too far, that it is ime to reduce the size of government not expand it's size.

Bullshit.

If any of you gave a shit about the size of government, you would have said something when Bush expanded it more than any other President (Medicare D., Dept. of Homeland Security).

If you gave a shit about the national debt, you wouldn't have voted for people like Reagan and the Bushes -- the three Presidents responsible for 70% of our national debt.

If you gave a shit about the deficit, you would have opposed the Iraq war since it was put on the country's credit card and will cost us around $2 trillion when all is said and done.

If you gave a shit about taxes, you wouldn't vote for people who have transferred wealth from the middle class to the top 1% through their tax policies, creating a disparity that is now greater than any other time in American history, and has taken literally trillions away from hard working middle class families.

Face it: You all say you want a lot of things, yet vote for people who do the EXACT OPPOSITE. But you're just too fucking stupid to notice because you've been told that the GOP is the party of GOD ... that they'll protect your precious guns, and keep you safe from the scary Muslims and homos.

If you all on the right really give a damn about anyone but yourselves, you'd support changing a system that costs us $200 billion in tax dollars spent on waste, bankrupts a million families a year, and is one of the worst in the industrialized world. And all it would cost is half the yearly costs of Iraq.

But you don't really care, do you? You don't care about Jesus' message of helping the poor and the sick, do you? You'd much rather be on the side of the money changers.

So please, don't act like you care about anything but yourself. Your actions and words prove otherwise.

Posted by: Mark D on September 4, 2009 at 11:26 AM | PERMALINK

THAT YOU LIBERALS CAN'T SEE WHAT'S GOING ON IS ENCOURAGING. JUST KEEP MAKING FUN OF OTHERS, UNTIL YOU HAVE NO POWER LEFT. WE WILL FIX WHAT YOU HAVE DONE AND REBUILD AMERICA.

I seem to remember hearing a lot of similiar comments before the Republican Revolution in the '90's and before Bush jr. got elected in 2000.....

How did those "rebuilding" efforts go ?

Posted by: Stephen on September 4, 2009 at 11:30 AM | PERMALINK

As far as Timothy "The 'L' is for 'Loony'" Pennell shows, these people are detached from all reality.

Starting wars based on lies? Okay with him.

Violating the 4th Amendment and spying on Americans without a warrant? Dandy!

Torturing people to death? Perfect!

Running up massive amounts of debt to kill brown people and enrich defense contractors? Well, that's acceptable!

But try to provide health care for American citizens and encourage kids to stay in school and work hard?

OH MY GOD!!!!11!!! HE'S JUST LIKE HITLER!!!!one!!!

Sweet lord ... thanks for proving our point, Timmah! Now, please, take your meds. Lots of them.

Posted by: Mark D on September 4, 2009 at 11:31 AM | PERMALINK
How did those "rebuilding" efforts go ?

Posted by: Stephen

According to their plan: the rich have gotten richer on the backs of the middle class, and we have about 40% of our population so fucking ignorant they don't think government has anything to do with Medicare.

Just the way the GOP wants them: poor, stupid, angry, and afraid.

So it went swimmingly, when you see it through that lens.

Posted by: Mark D on September 4, 2009 at 11:34 AM | PERMALINK

Uh...Olberman ring a bell? Mikki-Moore, Dan Rather, Begala, the bald headed cajun dude?

You've gotta be kidding?

Posted by: dude on September 4, 2009 at 1:25 PM | PERMALINK

The crazies have a political party, a cable news network, and a loud, activist base.

And almost all of talk radio.

Posted by: Steve J. on September 4, 2009 at 2:39 PM | PERMALINK

Bea wrote, Surely, there are a few over the top people in an audience of many, but generally we are just a group of people who genuinely believe that the government is going too far, that it is ime to reduce the size of government not expand it's size.

LOL!

So that means you opposed the invasion of Iraq? It's cost us nearly a trillion dollars, and all it's done is take out one of Iran's chief enemies.

Remember, war is the health of the state.

Posted by: liberal on September 4, 2009 at 3:30 PM | PERMALINK

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