Forget secession. Can we just kick them out?

trying to "exonerate" Joe McCarthy

Actually, only one of the panel members is still stupid enough to think that the Venona intel "exonerates" Joe McCarthy. Let's not exaggerate.

I'm sure the right-wing critics of the president's stay-in-school message will be quick to denounce the conservative efforts in Texas.

C'mon Steve, you know the religious rightards that infest the Texas SBOE and poison the state curriculum here are fighting the good fight against the academic forces of liberal EVIL. They are fighting the liberal and secular indoctrination of Tx schoolchildren that should be prayin' to baby Jesus 5 times a day while learnin' bout the 6000 year old Earth.

The GOP is just projecting their own political program on the opposition. As usual.

Stay in school. Get good grades. Succeed. Yep, that's the message. If you want to call it indoctrination, fine, let's embrace it. What's their message to students-- quit school and go shopping? I'm sure corporate America thanks you.

I didn't realize that educational textbooks are a captured industry that functions as a monopoly.

What they're afraid of is the Liberal dog-whistle in Obama's talk to children. He'll be signalling for them to join the Crips or Bloods before signing onto Obama Jungen.

I think I know what happened to the brown acid at Woodstock. It ended up in our water supply 40 years later. And you know, they DID warn us that it wasn't too good, man...

Appreciating that the Texas School Board wants to 'indoctrinate" Texas students, I think there is a much more sinster reason behind the right's apoplexy over Obama's speech. Of course the speech will not be an attempt to "indoctrinate" our youth to liberal, secular humanism or whatever the rights percieved concern du jour might be, but it will almost certainly seek to inspire students to learn as much as they can and stress the importance of education in our increasingly small and competitive world. Who knows, there may actually be some students who will be inspired and will understand that if they want futures they should learn as much as they can. That is what right wing fringe and Fox news really fear--a more educated populace. It is much harder to bamboozle well educated people on a whole host of issues near and dear to the right wing, from sales of worthless goods and services at inflated prices to rejection of reasonable social programs to voting GOP to denying anything with a scientific basis. Really, can you imagine what the GOP would do without greed and ignorance? I mean there is always racism and religious fundamentalists, but non hispanic whites will be the minority in the not too distant future and the fundamentalists are understandably recognizing that the morality of Republican politicians is highly suspect. If young people actually learn something in school, the right's positions will be judged on merit and the right does not believe it will do well with that analysis

"I didn't realize that educational textbooks are a captured industry that functions as a monopoly."

Not a monopoly, but an oligopoly. There are four textbook publishers (Pearson, McGraw Hill, Reed and Houghton Mifflin) that dominate the market.

The comment about Texas standards (known as "TEKS") influence textbooks used in other states is accurate. Fortunately (if one can view undue influence by any party as "fortunate"), California's standards matter just as much. These two states have enormous implicit influence in the textbook market.

"Forget secession. Can we just kick them out?"

God, wouldn't that be great? :~)

Then they'd have to have passports to enter the other 49 states... and we could build that big border fence they carry on about all the time... around THEM!

Can we also kick out Oklahoma, and be rid once and for all of Inhofe and Coburn? ;~)

I don't know what y'all are fussin' about.

Our younguns learn ever' thing they need to know in Bible School.

Edumacation is highly overrated, anyways. Ever' body KNOWS all the good jobs already been took by some Messican with a weed wacker. . .

On the bright side there is not much evidence that the average American retained ANYTHING from grade school or high school history.

I got a BA in History which had always been one of my best subjects. Good thing because between me and my best friend we had to supply all of the answers to every test to the rest of our American History class back in 1973. Evidence that this was a nation-wide phenomenon was pretty clear when I took that American History elective as an undergrad along with Poli Sci 1. Berkeley was a pretty elite school and the depth of knowledge of history and politics among my classmates was dismal. And all this while Watergate and the Nixon Resignation were hitting their heights. You would think maybe someone would have picked up the paper.

Frankly I am more worried with the TBOE screwing around with the science curriculum. You can fix historical understanding, which for most people is just a series of facts and dates, but once kids get screwed up ideas about science I think the damage goes to deeper levels.

Let's compare the messages of indoctrination from both parties:

Democrats: Stay in school. Do your best. Volunteer in your community. Do what you can to help others. People who are different than you deserve the same rights you do.

Republicans: Pray in school. Your government is the enemy. George W. Bush was sent by Jesus to govern us. People who don't believe in Jesus are the enemy. People who are different than you are the enemy. Everyone in America must speak English. Liberals are Nazis.

It reminds me of the fundamentalist Christians who complained about the Harry Potter books because JK Rowling was "indoctrinating children" to believe in the black arts of creativity and friendship.

I disagree that this is projection. I think it is a carefully designed effort to give them cover while they do the exact things about which they are supposedly outraged.

They want to politicize education, so they accuse the Democrats of doing it. They gin up some poutrage. The Fox News audience will hear the conservative bullshit first, and the viewers will believe it no matter how much evidence to the contrary is presented.

They do this constantly.

texas is the asshole of the country. always has been and always will be...

CSPAN has video of President Reagan and President George H. W. Bush talking with students. I know, I know. It's OK if a Republican does it.

http://cspan.org/Watch/Media/2009/09/04/HP/A/22807/US+Presidents+Address+Students.aspx

http://cspan.org/Watch/Media/2009/09/04/HP/A/22808/US+Presidents+Address+Students.aspx

..and lyle lovett not withstanding...

Isn't Texas pretty much a lost case? Austin excepted. Well, parts of Austin. That state's over and done - it's so cooked in hate that it will never recover decency.

Oh, come on - staying in school and actually learning things is the last thing Republicans want kids "indoctrinated" into doing. They've just gotten more brazen about their "keep people stupid and uneducated" strategy. At least they were unsuccessful in getting the Dept. of Education abolished.

Who knows, there may actually be some students who will be inspired and will understand that if they want futures they should learn as much as they can. That is what right wing fringe and Fox news really fear--a more educated populace.

Nah, this is little more than a potshot at Obama by the GOP entertainment-based leadership which is then always endorsed by the elected-political leadership. Scorched earth politics which is dangerous and cancerous. One is reminded of the Roman spectacle of the Coliseum in the final days of the Empire.

A number of Rightards still haven't come to terms with the fact that their president is a NiCLANG!
Which is why they have been busy creating doubt as to the legitimacy of the Obama presidency, from the "botched" oath onwards.

And they've been telling their kids that the terrible man in the WH is a socialist impostor out to destroy these fine Unites States of Apoplexy.
Having him actually talk directly to their children is stewing, basting and cooking them, right down to their mean little spirits.

Just to elaborate a bit on my comment about California's standards: they are much more liberally oriented than those of Texas; therefore, they serve as something of a counterweight to the right-wing religious nonsense that passes for mainstream education in the Lone Star state.

The religious right has great influence in the content of the textbooks that Texas students use. For a great intro to the whole topic, go to the Fordham Institute website (http://www.edexcellence.net/template/index.cfm) and search the site for the publication called "The Mad, Mad World of Textbook Adoption". It's an excellent perspetive on the issue by a woman who definitely knows what she's talking about.

I've lived in Texas most of my life and just when I think it can't get any worse, those rethughlican, racist, theocratic, bastards in Austin find something new. (No offense intended for regular bastards). In Texas the rethugs take great pleasure in directing their agenda towards children. Need proof? this state leads the nation in uninsured chidren, babies born to children, hungry children, illiterate children,(W), the list goes on. If you are gonna kick this crap hole out along with Oklahoma, give me a heads up so I can get the hell out.

"texas is the asshole of the country. always has been and always will be..."

Amen, brother.

And Oklahoma is about just north, right up the colon.

Why don't they just pass out copies of Ann Coulter's books to schoolkids and be done with it?

Ok, a national standardization for school curriculum sounds nice. But what if that board is also made up of 10 Republicans and 5 Democrats?

You know ... something funny just occurred to me:

Do any of the parents holding their kids out of school on Tuesday really think their kids won't see Obama'a speech?

Last I checked, there was this thing called "The Internet" where people can find all kinds of stuff. And if parents are throwing a fit over this, I guarandamntee their kids are going to look to this Internet to find out what the fuss is all about.

And once they see the speech and how harmless it was (hell, they'll probably find it boring), odds are they'll discount most other stuff their parents say. That is, if they don't already.

In other words, this whole controversy will ensure pretty much every kid sees it one way or another.

And that just cracks me up for some reason ...

What no one here has mentioned is that as an employer who wanted a productive, creative and progressive workforce, I would be very leery about hiring anyone whose resume indicated they were educated in Texas, or most of the regressive South. I don't want my workforce listening to Rush, watching FOX or reading the twisted and biased books that purport to represent conservative "thought". My initial interview would focus on cultural progressive tendencies. More important than skill levels is attitude. One can learn skills, and the more open one is, the more out-of-the box thinkers they are. Even people who are doing very mundane tasks are more likely to fit into a culture of diversity and cooperation.

Born/educated in Texas, et al? Apply at my competitor's. He can deal with them and their prejudice.

Well, Texans are Number One in an interesting category: Houston (America's fourth largest city) holds the record for girls UNDER the age of fourteen giving birth- and having multiple births before they reach twenty. . .

So:
1) Texas does not want citizens who can compete in the modern world.
2) Anything kids are taught is (a) forgotten when kids hit puberty; (b) rebelled against once they learn the (comparative) truth, kids hate to be lied to.
3) The conservative Republicans might want to ponder why they started losing elections in 2006. Well, here's an answer -- people learned they were lied to when they were in school and when they grew up voted for everything they were taught to hate.

texas is the asshole of the country. always has been and always will be... -neill

Texas is really more of the scrotum of the country when you consider Florida. Using that biological orientation, sorry, Arizona, that makes you the the fifth sphincter of America's digestive tract. Butt at least you taint New Mexico!

And once they see the speech and how harmless it was... -Mark D

At that point, the right wing will declare victory by claiming that Obama edited his speech at their behest.

Why don't these concerned parents tell their kids to watch the speech closely, do the same themselves, and discuss it with the child that night? Oh yeah... One embarrassing question from the kid and the parents will be screaming as if they are at a town hall meeting.

oh come on st john...I think there are a handful of Texans that comment on this site regularly that are really trying our darnedest to make a change here. Well, maybe three...
Have to admit that I'm losing all hope and fear that Texas is a lost cause. But then I remember that I also felt the same under the reign of King Shrub and darned if things didn't change for the better (hopefully). But just in case, "doubtful", will your state still welcome a progressive Texan?

Do you guys really expect people to take you seriously?

Texas is a very red state and their BOE will act like it. It is no more right wing than the California or New York BOE is left wing.

whichwitch: I knew that I might get some flack from my post. I could have taken the time to vet it and clarify the hyperbole therein. I chose to send it as is/was. Clearly, the BOE and politicians do not speak for all residents of any given geographic area. I live and was educated in CA in the 40s through 60s. I live in Orange County. I do not fit the stereotypes of OC, and CA is a very diverse state, but tends to the progressive side of political and social thought. So, I know there are people educated in regressive institutions who overcome the biases and learn to think for themselves. Unfortunately, at least on this site, the crazies seem to get the most attention. I am led to think that Glenn Beck(whom I have never actually watched) has more influence than Keith O or Rachel M on the American populace, based on his longevity and compensation. Obviously, his sponsors' leaving has not gotten his contract terminated and they still send their money to FOX, so the financial impact is not significant on his employer.

I hope I am wrong and that there is a shift to the progressives.

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john

There used to be a lady in Texas named Norma Gabler who attended every state board of education curriculum meeting and single-handedly set US education back by Christianizing Texas's textbook requirements. She even got evolution tossed out for a while. She got one text tossed because it called insulin a drug, and that might cause the little kiddies to think drugs are okay.

st john - I understand what you're saying and I know how frustrating it can be to be seemingly swimming upstream constantly. One does what one can, right?

Also, I think the only time I've ever seen Glenn Beck has been on Keith Olbermann's show!

Peace back at ya'.

But just in case, "doubtful", will your state still welcome a progressive Texan? -whichwitch

Plenty of room for you in Illinois. We even already have an Austin.

We could have a sort of amnesty trade. We can shuffle off crazy Northerners, like Representative Bachmann, in exchange for sane Southerners.

Grand idea doubtful! I'd love to visit Austin, Illinois someday and compare notes. Good Mexican food is a must though....

This was nothing but a test run to see how much he could get away with, nothing more or less. The fact he changed the language just reflects that he understands people are distrustful of him. Might have something to do with judge me by who I seek counsel from, well many are.

Aisha 180 = another foolish comment.

Sammy Foolish; What, he did not anticipate the scrutiny this would draw,then had to do a re- write, maybe that a large portion of the nation does not trust him, or is it Van Jones and others of his views would not be seen as main stream America. While his supporters see no foul, those who no longer trust him will not be so forgiving.

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