"How Dems handle the message war matters a lot..."

They will lose that war, as usual, by not having the corporate media and talk radio on their side. The majority of voters may be on their side, but they are passive; more concerned about their jobs and mortgages.

"Thumbing their nose at the American people by ramming through a partisan bill would be the same thing as going to war without asking Congress' permission,"

PLEASE. The teabaggers and lunatic fringe that make up the majority of opposition to healthcare DO NOT represent "The American People".

They are a small, very ignorant and confused bunch of people who are being manipulated by unscrupulous business interests.

Again, they ARE NOT "The American People".

As stated many times here and elsewhere, the majority of people in this country favor this president's agenda. It just so happens that agenda favors "The American People", and represents a threat to business interests' cash cow.

So let's try and create a new narrative here. Just who are the republican legislators claiming really are "American People? These fucking nuts on TV???

The Democrats did not have any PR strategy on health care so far. Period.
That's something they still need to learn how to do from the GOP.

You are asking them to develop one now to counter the GOP PR machine"reconciliation"?
What about having one to explain the public option, or any of their reform suggestions for that matter?

The actual "swing" vote of the American people consists of people who believe in "strong," that is, easy to understand win-lose narratives of leadership. Pass the bill, they will rally to the bill-passers.
That is, if the Democrats actually WANT to be in the majority. I have my doubts.

That they are on record for having used reconciliation and admitting the Dems can use the process to pass health care reform isn't relevant. Republican hypocrisy only gets coverage if there is a mistress involved.

What Dems need to do is find which grade school textbook explains reconciliation or even How A Bill Becomes A Law. And the message needs to be, when asked to comment on these types of remarks, that what's truly "thumbing your nose at the American people" is coming to Congress, serving X-number of years, and still not learning how the job works. That it's really quite frightening that we have members of the Senate who do not have the understanding of a 4th grader or the average kindergartener who has seen SchoolHouse Rock. Say maybe the next issue they'll pick up is civic education for elected officials.

Maybe there should be a special showing on the floor of the Senate. Or maybe they can show it to the joint session before Obama begins his speech, so the whole nation can see it.

Ignorance should not continue to be a badge of honor.

"ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" -- Serres

"ontology recapitulates philology" -- Quine

"healthcare reform politics recapitulates the celebration and honoring of labor in this country." -- neill

Perhaps some Democrat speaking to the American people could use the phrase "You call it reconciliation, I call it majority rule."

It frustrates me to no end that Obama and his advisers did not anticipate this, or at least act like they didn't. Did they really think that having dinner at George Will's house and reaching out to the Congressional GOP would keep the conservatists from declaring war? Note to President Obama: These people hate you. They hate everything about you. They want to destroy you, destroy your wife and family, and dance on your political grave. You could offer to cut the income tax to 1.5% in perpetuity and they'd still oppose you and call you Hitler. Take a lesson from your predecessor (the only lesson to take, btw), and submit the maximalist package to Congress each and every time. That way you don't have to give away the store like you are now.

Understanding Republicans at this point is impossible unless you understand their language. Lamar Alexander says the "American people" would be offended if Democrats passed a health care bill that Republicans oppose. But what Alexander really means is that the "real" Americans who live in that shrinking portion of the nation known as "real America" that is still represented by Republicans would be offended if Democrats did what the American people elected them to do and actually govern.

You forgot to mention that, at least when a Republican is President, Republicans believe that you don't need congressional authorization to go to war...

See: Cheney, Dick

Lamar, correct me if I'm wrong but health care reform was a support beam on the platform that won to 2008 election. If anyone is ramming anything down the people's throats, it's republicans doing the ramming.

And third, to suggest that passing bills that "only" enjoy a Senate majority is similar to waging war with congressional approval is ridiculous.

Methinks you mean "waging war without congressional approval".

"Even the laziest, most partisan political reporters in the country should realize that a) Republicans used reconciliation to get what they wanted when they were in the majority, including firing the Senate parliamentarian after an unfavorable ruling; and b) Republicans are already on record saying publicly that Democrats can pass health care reform through reconciliation if they choose to do so."

And c) the reconciliation process has clearly defined rules that have been in place for decades. In order to pass something through reconciliation, you need to follow the Senate rules -- it's not nuclear, it's following the rules. David Waldman (KagroX) has a good post on the topic at Congress Matters: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/21/770248/-No,-losers,-reconciliation-is-not-the-nuclear-option

Again, if wiki is correct, it looks like those Thugs used Reconcilation at least 6 times while Bush 2 was Pres. Unbelievable. They even fired the Senate Parlimentarian because he would not approve legislation they wanted to pass and got one that would approve it. Total thugs. I have to admit I sorta of admire that occasionally. I remember all those rumors and articles were flying around about Sotomayor because everyone thought Obama might consider her and our Pres. walked out with her one morning with a great big smile. He was messing with the thugs. Go ahead, filibuster the first Hispanic female (the wise Latina) to ever be nominated. Make my day. Let's see when you thugs ever win anymore Hispanics or gen. elections.

How Dems handle the message war matters a lot, obviously, but also watch to see how the media "allows the GOP to define reconciliation as evil." Even the laziest, most partisan political reporters in the country should realize that a) Republicans used reconciliation to get what they wanted when they were in the majority, including firing the Senate parliamentarian after an unfavorable ruling; and b) Republicans are already on record saying publicly that Democrats can pass health care reform through reconciliation if they choose to do so.

Why this won't happen:

1. "The media" is all owned by corporations with an institutional opposition to this reform, or by individuals (like Sam Zell, owner of the LA Times) with a personal ideological opposition.

2. The job market in "the media" is tightening. Print journalists are an endangered species.

3. When reviews are made to decide who to fire, known company loyalty is an element that can help one keep their job.

4. Journalists may generally as a species be dumber than a bag of rocks, but they're cunning enough to know which side their bread is buttered on.

I still prefer to pass it through reconcilliation with 0 republican votes. They don't deserve any credit for anything about healthcare, except trying to stop it, thus harming Americans. republicans would rather have more Americans die, rather than see a Democratic Prsident and Congress pass it's most important agenda item. They are anti-American and this proves it.

Since you mentioned it, shouldn't Cap and Trade be done by reconciliation too?

Not to mention that Bush went to war twice without congress' permission.

Like going to war w/o Congress' permission?! The idiocy of that. That would be a violation of the President's Constitutional powers, whereas being able to pass a bill with a majority, parties not even defined, is just what is allowed by the Constitution - which he disdains as "technical." The 60 vote tradition is just a recent distortion.

This morning (Labor Day) on the 9:00 am PST newscast, NPR, on a story about a health care reform bill, referred to "the 60 votes needed for passage in the Senate". Are they stupid, sloppy, or just being Villagers?

"Thumbing their nose at the American people by ramming through a partisan bill would be the same thing as going to war without asking Congress' permission,"

Since when was the last time a President ASKED Congress to go to war? What a stupid statement!

I'd say its far from thumbing their nose at the American people. I would argue that it is doing the bidding of 70% or more of the electorate, and giving the finger to the Republican ideology, the Republican obstructionist politicians, and the Republican (as well as some Democrats) funding insurance companies fighting reform of any kind.
Although it will never happen that way... I'd like to help out a little
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