whoever the woman is on tpm's stream is a slimeball republican stooge.

this pre-gaqme bullshit is too much... i'm on mute till barack shows...

Neill, Neill, don't hold back.

-Z

I don't know about yall, but I really don't feel comfortable with Obama indoctrinating Congress like this. If Obama wants to make this speech voluntary, by putting it on YouTube for Congresspeople to view at their discretion, that's perfectly fine. But by forcing himself upon impressionable middle-aged folks, he's really stepping into Hitler territory.

And from what I understand, he's going to be giving a strictly partisan speech, urging Congress to act upon his goals; and even going so far as to request that they write legislation to send to him for his approval, and probably have him send back messages of his own...at taxpayer expense, no doubt.

And that's just wrong. No other president in history has gone so far as Obama in forcing his will upon us, and now that he's trying to indoctrinate Congress into being a sort of Hitler Youth for old powerful dudes, I fear he's gone too far. Obama must be stopped.

Olbermann asks Maddow if Obama waited too long.

She is saying the time is now...that being a democrat is now about deciding how we protect our individuals against corporate power.

Fineman says they were caught flat-footed in August.

Rachel disagrees...she is saying that they looked look SO nuts, and that was the surprise.

Olbermann suggests "nuts" works...

They chuckle...

Here we go...

Dr. Biobrain: Serious, or parody? You make the call.

-Z

don't worry, doc, his words will never penetrate their titanium skulls -- thoughts dont get in and thoughts dont get out...

besides, its after 8 pm back there... most of 'em are legally drunk by now.

Bravo, Doctor Biobrain. They are such an impressionable bunch, aren't they?

if all else (ie Congress) fails, Obama could always resurrect another Bush tradition - the signing statement...

TELEPROMPTER!!!!! 'Nuff said.

(Sorry...couldn't resist.)

MJ: do you know anyone who has ever given a major speech- or even a minor one- w/o notes of some sort? Lincoln wrote out the Gettysburg Address on his way to the battlefield; I wonder if people would hold that against him too.

-Z

If only we could budget through a signing statement. And the next Gooper in would sign it away. We'll be lucky if they don't legislate it away...assuming we ever get it to start with.

"it can happen to anyone..."
except everybody in that congressional hall

this is a repulsive circus act -- the rising and cheering by those corporate puppets -- at how we shouldn't allow their masters to kill people by denying them medical coverage.

Zorro,

If you don't stitch some sense of humour onto your cape, pronto, you'll end up fighting everyone, friend and foe alike...

GET TOUGH BARACK!!!!

he's moving into how he's gonna compromise with the repugnants.

Unfortunately, ExLiberal, our current health care crisis isn't a laughing matter; hence, I'm not laughing.

-Z

he better pull out his baseball bat... right now...

80% agreement in the halls. Seriously? Where???

'Determined to be the last"

I hope that's empty rhetoric or an indication that he has a secret plan that we haven't heard about yet.

so far its the same August pep rally speech... like in portsmouth nh

so a catastrophic medical ins for the uninsured... that might be new.... spoze to be something president john mccain advocated at one time.

I have absolutely no faith in this Administration anymore. Emanuel will be out tomorrow to tell us what these platitudes really mean.

This is Obama's standard stump speech on health care. Yawn. Nothing new, nothing to see here.

Sounds like he's talking about an individual mandate + public option-lite.

-Z

if he's serious about "being the last," he'd better not compromise to half measures that the next Democrat will have to come in a clean up.

they laughed at the wrong time -- revealing the absurdity of this stage show

if he's serious about "being the last" -zeitgeist

I ran that quote through the translator and got this:

Trying to reform health insurance really fucks up your approval rating. After I fail at this, no fool will ever try it again.

Afraid I share the sentiments of other commenters. This is tepid and not what was needed right now.

Not one Gooper stands for the Death Panels are lies line. Wonderful. Assholes!

Did I just hear someone in the hall call the President a liar? I wonder why he wasn't so gutsy about Bush.

-Z

Calling out thew liars!!! I love IT!

Steve, at 8:26, the small applause wasn't for the public option, but for single payer. Whereas I think 8:33 was a nod to the public option.

There's some major league bitchslappin' goin' down. The Republicans look like they're about to puke.

He doesn't want to put the insurance companies out of business; he just wants to keep them honest.

Well put.

And he just endorsed a public option! There's your headline.

-Z

I'm all for individual mandate. As long as I can apply it, *immediately*, to the public option.

And, Zorro... I'm not asking you, yourself, to laugh; I'm asking you to stop attacking those who are on your side and do. And it's ex Libra, not ex Liberal. You know... Like that Zodiac sign? Also called "scales" and... "balance"?

It IS fun watching the Republican assholes sitting on their hands.

exlibra: point taken.

-Z

his explanation of the public option is exactly as it was last month in portsmouth -- he better have a baseball bat comin' up...

the repugnants are just that. their indecency is quite ugly.

I can't believe a Republican coward would call the President a liar on national television like that, especially when he was speaking a demonstrable truth.

Steve would probably say he has 'chutzpah.'

I'm thinking the person who yelled 'its a lie' is going to see President Obama campaigning in his district for his opponent.

The PUBLIC OPTION IS ALIVE.

The speech is a victory.

same waffle on what the public option is...

Did anyone hear that collective laughter when Obama said (seriously) many details need to be worked out(?).

Morons like Biobrain, who are racists, are only interested in the destruction of Obama.

Go away, you disgusting racist asshole.

The PUBLIC OPTION IS ALIVE. -POed Lib

Not unless he says the 'v' word. Otherwise, it's the same old lip service that Rahm will tell us tomorrow that it's negotiable.

"If Americans can't find an affordable option, we will provide you w/a choice. And I'll make sure that no government bureaucrat or insurance bureaucrat gets in between you and the care you need."

Bingo.

-Z

he is sliding into "choice" instead of the public option...

it is the same "belt" of reforms with "suspenders" being the public option that he has been saying all along.

Morons like Biobrain, who are racists, are only interested in the destruction of Obama. -POed Lib

Relax. He was joking.

He's actually got the biggest Obama pom-poms 'round these parts.

Who was the heckler?

Deplorable. We need to find out who it was.

Good zinger re: the Bush spending not being paid for, as compared w/a plan which will effectively bring paygo to health care reform.

-Z

Has anyone been able to identify the heckler? What fucking balls.

Who's Eric Cantor texting?

doubtful,

Why do you find it hard to believe that the Reptiles would behave like the crass thugs they *are*, no matter the audience? They're pushing the envelope and enjoying it.

What fucking balls. -TR

I think they're a coward. Cowards are members of a mob. It takes courage to confront a mob.

Bets on how the MSM treat the heckler?

Dude...Dr. Biobrain is snarking.

Who is that asshole who is commenting on the speech?

We need to find him, and make him PAY politically.

Good strategy to position himself as Medicare's Defender in Chief.

-Z

...it is the same "belt" of reforms with "suspenders" being the public option that he has been saying all along.

Yup.

obama is going to deal away the public option. he is going to try to get support for a laundry list of reforms that would provide insurance for the uninsured, protect those already insured, and keep costs down.

he is essentially saying he'll sign a bill without a public option and to trust him that the bill he signs will deal with what the public option as an umbrella (or obama's suspenders) would do.

the repugnants will say obama punched them in the face...

the media will spin it right down the track they were jammering before he showed up in the hall.

the lies will continue.

will the Dims grow a spine?

Okey-dokey, if you say "Biobrain is cool", I'm cool with that.

Snark, unless well-signaled, is not clear on the internet.

"Protect Medicare". Not one Gooper stands up. I hope the seniors are watching.

Phoebe: Cantor's texting his broker + telling him to dump insurance company stocks.

-Z

Maybe Stephen Colbert is in the gallery, and he's the one who called the Prez a liar...

what papers are the republicans holding up?

Good lord this dude can deliver an epic bitchslap.

I wish I had been counting the number and variety of ways in which he's called the Republicans a bunch of damn liars.

Then he pulls the rug out from under them by co-opting actual immediate action on malpractice reform. And the ultimate coup with the slapdown challenge to "keep on lying mofos - I'm callin' you out."

Loves it!

Repugnacraps aren't happy! Look for more wingnuttery!

Snark, unless well-signaled, is not clear on the internet. -POed Lib

We need some sort of rule or formula, and since I'm humble, we'll call it 'doubtful's rule,' that states:

The problem perceiving political parody is proportional to the puerility of public discourse.

Snark, unless well-signaled, is not clear on the internet. POed Lib

Isn't the fact that it mimics the complaints about Obama's speech to school kids pretty obvious?

BRAVO

Obama started slowly, but once he got started, BOY, did he get started. As Jennifer put it, epic bitchslap.

Condemning the abandonment of reason- good rebuttal to the Idiot America on display too often over the past decade.

-Z

I'll give you malpractice reform, you give me Medicare for All. Do we have a deal?

Nice, subtle reference to JFK's inaugural address: "We choose to do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard."

Obama needed a home run, and he whacked it out of the park.

-Z

THANK YOU MR. PRESIDENT!

I know I shouldn't be, but I am still amazed at the republicans backing up the "death panels" stuff so uniformly by staying in their seats through the applause line.

Bravo, Barack...

now drag 'em in the white house one by one, two by two... wev... and tell 'em "this is how it's gonna be..."

I am in a weird time warp. Whitehouse.gov is broadcating from 10 minutes in the future.

Charles Boustany? Pshaw. Bring on Jindal!

Best line of the night.

"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it."

Does anyone know if that's an original line?

Charles Boustany is just about as Kenneth the Page as his Gov. Bobby Jindal.

folks, i only come round these parts intermittantly, and even i could see that dr. biobrain was joking.

folks, i know this is serious work we're doing, but that doesn't mean we have to do it so seriously.

lighten up.

C-Span just reported that the guy who shouted that the President was lying is Representative Joe Wilson, South Carolina's 2nd District.

Joe Wilson, wingnut from SC, was the heckler who shouted 'you lie' according to the AP.

JeffF, @ 21:06

The Repressive Reptiles are very much *for* death panels (and, doubtless, for death squads, as well)... so long as they're privately-run, no regulation, and lots of no bid contracts death panels. Contrary to their official statements, they do not like competition. Or, not competition on equal terms, without a built-in advantage.

I'm sure I've been bewitched by the Harry Potter series (just finished vol. 5), but they remind me of nothing more than a bunch of Death Eaters, Dementors and pint-sized Voldemort-wanna-bes.

Didn't he say that the public option would ONLY be for the uninsured? In other words, those of us now tied to insurance companies we hate, and we feel we are a captive of, have no other option? Not good at all!!!!

wow, dude types fast. here i thought he was still gladhanding in the hall - and he personally e-mailed me to tell me he just finished speaking to Congress! now that's impressive!

TPM posted a link to Wilson's website. It has crashed. Wilson should pay dearly for his behavior tonight.

What a spanking... and... where did I put my pom-poms?

Jennifer: There's some major league bitchslappin' goin' down.

Zorro: epic bitchslap

Yep and yep.

He took August to the woodshed and beat it with an ugly stick of pretty words. He had to do that. The nation was on the edge of going completely rogue ugly.

Thank you Mr. President.

And oh yeah:
The. Public Option. Lives.

I'm happy.

We need the telephone number of Dead Joe, who is gonna regret heckling.

What is his home number?

Office number?

I'm getting all set to go all out on this one. His ass is grass.

I honestly have no read on what any he said.

It all seems very complicated and wishy washy and it's going to take four years to kick in?

I dunno...

zeitgeist, @21:17

Ditto. And he used the "not the first, but the last" line, too :) Have you written your representatives yet, as indoctrinated?

The Obama that so many of us fell for in 2008 is BACK!!!

I think the GOP is collectively wincing that they pushed it as far as they did, that by doing so they brought back the Obama they've been afraid of all this time.

Obama needed to deliver and he did-- and then some. It was a great speech. As I'm sure many else hoped, the death of Kennedy might have reignited a fire in his belly and it should radiate throughout the party.

"If you misrepresent what's in the plan, we will call you out."

Bring it on !!!

From wikipedia

Addison Graves Wilson, Sr., usually known as Joe Wilson (born July 31, 1947) is a Republican politician from the U.S. state of South Carolina, currently representing the state's 2nd congressional district (map), in the U.S. House of Representatives. The district is based in the state capital, Columbia, and stretches to the resort towns of Beaufort and Hilton Head Island.

Congressman Wilson is widely known as the voice who shouted "you lie" during President Obama's address to the joint session of Congress on September 9, 2009 regarding Healthcare reform. The fact that the voice shouting "lie" did indeed belong to Mr. Wilson has been confirmed by several media sources.[1]

I'm not as moved by tonight's speech as many of you seem to be. We know he's a great speaker. Did this change anyone's minds? Did this speech move the needle on meaningful reform? Or will it just make us feel better about Congress shoveling money at the insurance companies and asking them to nicely do a better job?

I didn't hear the 'v' word, so I think it's a little preliminary to list the public option in stable condition. From where I sit it's still critical, and really, if it's revived, I'm guessing there will be permanent damage and it'll never be the same.

Color me unimpressed.

I'm sorry I didn't vote for Hilary.

Obama is punking us.

He sounded so stilted, so..I don't know...I still don't get his heart is in it.

The honeymoon with Obama is finally officially over.

Too little too late, so far as I can tell..

zoe kentucky@9.21p - you stated it exactly right.

OUR Obama showed up tonight!

Contact information for the not-so-honorable Joe Wilson of South Carolina.

C Address:
The Honorable Joe Wilson
United States House of Representatives
212 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-4002

DC Phone: 202-225-2452
DC Fax: 202-225-2455

Email Address: http://www.house.gov/formwilson/IMA/issue.htm

WWW Homepage: http://www.joewilson.house.gov/

District Offices:
903 Port Republic Street
Beaufort, SC 29902
Voice: 843-521-2530
FAX: 843-521-2535

1700 Sunset Boulevard, Suite 1
West Columbia, SC 29169
Voice: 803-939-0041
FAX: 803-939-0078

Steve, glad you felt positive..you have good instincts about these things...

Thanks, punking. She did look resplendent in red, didn't she? And happy that her hard work so long ago may now finally come to fruition. If only my evil twin had figured out the rules about caucuses. And not charged her fees as fast as the campaign brought in donations. And hadn't personally offended most of the base. sigh.

Wilson's numbers:

DC Phone: 202-225-2452

DC Fax: 202-225-2455

Great speech. His most impassioned since assuming the Presidency. He was at his best. Hopefully it wasn't too late to turn the debate around.

I think President Obama made the speech he needed to make, about what he realistically could accomplish without chickening out on some core liberal ideals, and he did a very good job. I just go, wow .... A drive to the fence, maybe out of the park. However humble, the public option was in there (I don't know if I could forgive him leaving it out.) I will always be grateful that he came out about the death panel trash, and said "it was a lie" Yesss - the L word, used! And he made the right (so to speak) IMHO conciliatory carrot danglings while still wagging the stick. It was Clintonesque in the good sense.

What were those papers some Rs held up? Who hooted? And that Republican response - the guy acted like he didn't even understand what the Obama plan was, it was clearly just pre-planned tripe. The public option is only a small part. Anyone know, is it true that Obama "doesn't want" interstate competition? It sounds good, but I suspect there are legal issues ironically deriving from States' rights, to have their own regulations! True? We need to stick Rs with that, if true.

"Didn't he say that the public option would ONLY be for the uninsured?"

I think what he said there is mostly accurate, but not entirely (as it had to be to fit in that few words).

The public option in some of the current bills would be one of the plans in the insurance pool. Small businesses and individuals can use the pool. I'm not sure if this means their employees get to choose whatever they want from the pool, or if the employer gets to choose whatever it wants from the pool.

A lot of the unemployed and some small businesses are likely to end up buying insurance from the pool and those people would therefore have access to the public option.

Those of us who work for larger companies or the government, and of course everyone on medicare or VA, would not.

In the long run if the public option works very well I think we can expect access to expand but it is rather limited under current plans.

This is, particularly at first, probably no big deal. The public plan will need time to grow anyway so it might be good for it to start out kinda small.

The way to quickly get a large government insurance plan would be to bolt it onto medicare, which is already huge so could grow quite quickly. However the best public option that seems to have a chance of passing soon would be a newly created buracracy and would therefore have a longer startup time.

Congressman Joe Wilson represents Beaufort, SC, a lovely little town that I've vacationed in a few times.

I'm going to call the local B&B we usually stay at there and let them know I won't be coming back. And then I'm going to call his local congressional office at (843) 521-2530‎ and let them know what a super job their boss is doing.

All you concern trolls, go to bed. He fucking kicked ass.

That Joe Wilson should be outed as perhaps the first promised (by Obama) of those who would be called out for not doing their job..

That was disgraceful beyond belief..Nancy Pelosi looked genuinely disturbed (and a bit afraid)..and after what's gone done, I don't blame her.

On that note, I really wish Obama had spoken more strongly to the fear mongering and outright paranoia that has spread like the wildfires in LA...
--------------------------------

Elizabeth Edwards is being interviewed..she is such a dear and strong woman..she looks great..what an inspiration overall for forgiveness and hope..a better person than I...

HOME RUN! Brilliant speech. Wonderful the way he forced Republicans to applaud for some things or look like total jerks to the constituents at home. More to the point, he fought lies with truth and did it with passion.

He also talked about saving the economy from the Bush debacle. He also pointed out that healthcare will cost less that the Iraq War.

Finally....

Balls up!

BRAVO!!!! MR PRESIDENT, BRAVO LET ALL THE IDIOTS WHO STILL BELIEVE IN (DEATH PANELS) AND ALL THE OTHER CRAP THE LEFT HAS BEEN PUTTING OUT JUST SHUT UP!! YOU FAILED WITH THE SCARE TACTICS AND BLATANT LIES!!BY THE SARAH PALIN LETS SEE HOW YOU TRY TO SPIN THIS ONE. YOU AND YOUR PHONIE CRONIES!!

Addison Graves Wilson, Sr., usually known as Joe Wilson. . .

I used to know someone with Addison's Disease. And I used to know someone with Graves Disease.

Both dead now.

There is also a Wilson's Disease.

This guy's a triple threat! The perfect Republican witch-hater.

The only guy on Earth named after three different diseases!

Hit him in the breadbasket...

TR: I'm going to call the local B&B we usually stay at there and let them know I won't be coming back

Now that's well played...

re: Wilson's outburst, Wikipedia notes "Fellow Congressmen shouted their disapprovals at Wilson's outburst, and after the session, Senator John McCain called upon Wilson to immediately apologize."

Unsurprisingly, Wikipedia locked down Wilson's page to prevent further vandalism (if you poke around a bit, you can see some what they mean).

-Z

First order of business tomorrow, Pelosi should move to censure Wilson and force the Republicans to either defend his boorishness or eat one of their own.

Most of us think this was a good speech and what could be done. Really, a single payer government plan wasn't in the cards for this country, there aren't enough enthusiasts or votes. But disappointed progressives here are not concern trolls, they know how things get watered down and detoured. We need to keep an eye on things and not let it get crapped and watered down. Keep up pressure for a solid public option, eagle eye on insurance companies, etc.

PS, did anyone else notice how much the NBC talking heads (all I watched) - especially David Gregory - were so horny for how important it was to get Republican support, for how natural it was to need 60 votes in the Senate, etc? Puke.

I didn't hear the 'v' word -- doubtful, @21:27

This is at least the second time tonight that the phrase (the "v" word) has been mentioned (may have been someone else the other time; can't remember) and I'm still at sea as to what it's supposed to mean. "Vepublican Varmints"? He came as close as was polite, several times. "Veto"? If you expected that, I think you were unrealistically idealistic. Obama has always been better at whipping up hope than whipping up fear; he's more likely to veto an unsatisfactory bill, quietly, than to threaten to do so. Threats were much more Bush's purlieu (and would have been McCain's)...

Didn't notice the NBC talking heads ... don't watch them :) I thought the speech was great and I'm happy. Liked the moral implications. Not from here originally. Continually amazed that a country that constantly talks about duty, patriotism, etc. let's people die because figuring out health care is just too hard. It was a gamechanger. Timing was perfect. I ♥ my President and that's a fact!

QUESTION...

What document were the Goopers waving about tonight? Was it their not-much-of-a-plan or the Constitution or what?

Anyone??

exlibra, i think our friend doubtful wanted to hear Obama say he'd veto any bill that didn't have a public option.

TR: I'm going to call the local B&B we usually stay at there and let them know I won't be coming back

Now that's well played...

Hey, it's the only way it works. Most people don't follow anything their congressmen do, but if you politely tell them their congressman just cost them some business, they'll sure listen.

Woman I spoke to on the phone hadn't been watching the speech. But she sure is paying attention to Joe Wilson now.

There's lots of agreement MsJoanne. The Repugs are just breathing fire through their noses so they can get on Pox News with those hot anchor babes.

The House bill, H.R. 3200, excludes anyone who is not a legal resident of the United States from coverage of extended insurance provisions. Section 246 reads, “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

And for idiots who claim the illegals are ruining our health care the American Hospital Association did a study that shows only 9% of illegals in the United States use the emergency room as opposed to 22% of the legal citizens. And based on my experience the hospital staff will do everything it can to get whatever money you have from you to pay for their services. Which are priced much, much higher than an HMO or group practice. And ERs are only required to stabilize an emergency medical condition, nothing more.

Jeez, you’d think Obama was going to free the slaves or something.

I thought that it was a good speech, well-delivered. I am always impressed by his speaking ability.

The plans as written to date have problems and contradictions. He addressed some of the seeming contradictions with the conviction that they were resolvable. I thought that his conviction was palpable.

Zeitgeist, @22:04

Yeah, I kinda figured it out -- eventually (I'm half dumb Polack, afterall). But, like I said... that was an unrealistically idealistic expectation. Wrong guy to expect to use threats.

Threats are stupid, for various reasons. They warn the enemy and irritate him, for no good reason. They may not be enforcible. They only work with mentally handicapped people (and then not always). If you're gonna deliver a death blow, it's much better to "talk pretty" right up to the last minute.

Tonight was the President I voted for, speaking. Now, I'll see what he *does* :)

Wikipedia! Isn't that an amazing phenom! Wilson's page has been diddled a lot, but one of the coolest revisions (01:31, 10 September 2009 Tariqabjotu) actually referenced the page of where it says, no pay to undocumented aliens:

During the September 9th 2009 speech to Congress by President Obama, Wilson created controvery by calling out "You lie!" as Obama said there was no coverage for illegal immigrants in his healthcare plan. However, section 246 of the bill HR3200 is entitled "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens" and states that no funds will be spent to cover illegal immigrants.

I downloaded the whole damn sucka, and indeed:

3 SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED
4 ALIENS.
5 Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
6 for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
7 not lawfully present in the United States.

Well, that says "affordability credits" but FactCheck says, no coverage for illegals.

I think the documents that were being waved around are the Republican "bills" that they are trying to show us that they have. Sort of a nonverbal rebuttal. Wanna bet that they are lots of blank pages bound up to look as big as the House bill?

I didn't hear an employer mandate mentioned.

While you are calling Rep. Wilson's office, let him know we all intend to contribute money to his challenger next time he is up for re-election. Put the real fear of God into him!

President Obama, and others, have repeatedly used the '47 million uninsured citizens' mantra for months and months.

9 million of those are illegal aliens.

If Obama DIDN'T want to include illegal aliens, that number would have been under 40 million - yet Obama has the audacity to tell us that illegal aliens wouldn't be insured under his bill.

Congressman Wilson is right...on this issue, President Obama is definitely a liar.

Matthew,

"The plans as written to date have problems and contradictions."

You mean the RightWing propaganda is that the plans written to date "have problems and contradictions".

The three bills passed out of the House committees and the bill passed out of the Senate HELP committee are all virtually the same, with minor variations in at what percentage of the federal Poverty level the subsidies kick in, etc.

Obama had me call you out.

John,

"President Obama, and others, have repeatedly used the '47 million uninsured citizens' mantra for months and months. 9 million of those are illegal aliens."

Nope.

The 47 million are American citizens.

Jesus, John C..,did you miss the EXACT text of the bill in the comments above? Can you fucking even read? Better trolls, please! Is it asking too much to actually THINK for yourself? Apparently so.

Steve,

I thought you did a great liveblogging the speech tonight. I wasn't watching it, yet I felt you hit enough of the highlights that I might not even bother digging it up online. Or maybe I will. We'll see.

I mostly heard sellouts to insurance companies; the mandate was a knife in the back. Until the late reference to a public option, I was about to puke, even congratulated my wife that she was right for not trusting him; that we would have been better off with Hill.

I am still not sure if the down played public option was a tactic to avoid attention or a tactic to appease the left. After having experienced seven months of Obama sellouts, my gut tells me the public option will either be bargained away or watered down to irrelevancy.

A mandate without a strong, affordable, public option is a loser, pure and simple. This is it folks, this is our one chance. Look what the evil twins did with their chance, look what Obama and the Dems are doing with theirs.

I need to be sold or I am gone and I think I just heard the best sales pitch we are going to get.

It only takes 5% of us to send you all back into Republicanism. It appears Republicanism is all that will motivate the masses.

So be it.

he's more likely to veto an unsatisfactory bill... -exlibra

I'd like to believe you, but the cynic in my says he'll sign any health reform bill that makes it to his desk because his political future is too closely tied to it. He needs the bullet point on his resume for 2012. Signing an imperfect bill will be his 'Mission Accomplished' moment.

No, stopping short at drawing a line and saying he will veto any bill without a public option means Rahm will be out tomorrow assuring the insurance industry that everything is a-ok, wink, wink.

Good speech, especially the beginning and the last few minutes.

It will take a little time to digest it's reform proposals and how they compare to the Congressional bills we've already been considering.

Joe Wilson's opponent in the 2010 midterms is Rob Miller. You can donate to his campaign via his ActBlue page. Amusingly, there is already a group called "Kossacks for Democrat Rob Miller," whose group sig is "Defeating the man who yelled liar at Obama: Goodbye Rep Joe Wilson." Just hours after the speech Rob Miller has raised almost $5,000 from the DKos crowd through this group.

John C Dumbfuck Moron: There are not 47 million uninsured, you fucking asshole. There are probably 67 million, due to 10 million laid-off/fired, and their 10 million dependents. So, fuck you very much, turd-face.

Naturally Barney Frank has the right response to the Joe "you lie!" Wilson thing-- he said it's not that big of a deal (IOW, don't fan the flames) and that it's a sign that the GOP is understandably freaking out because of how well Obama sold his plan tonight.

More dems need to say something along these lines when asked about it-- they shouldn't act overly offended (makes them appear thin-skinned) and say it shows how weak and scared the GOP are of real change. It works as a muscular pushback against it and it'll piss 'em off.

Wilson should be expelled from Congress. I would have remanded him into custody from the podium. We don't need any more canings. Incredible. The Republican party have become the refuge of louts, liars, hypocrites, racists and lobbyist spankers. That is just about the end of their party.

Well... I mulling and wondering now, how about relative affordability? What will one's health insurance premium per month be? Some people can afford to pay $300-400/mo. for HI, some can't very well. There needs to be something about proportional charge. That is the whole point of Medicare and Social Security to charge a percentage of the income.

Can private insurers be brought into an arrangement to collect different amounts from different individuals based on ability to pay, not just benefit of the plan? I think it's better to charge differentially to start with, not use subsidies after the fact.

I didn't hear the 'v' word,

I'm afraid I too am at a loss for this reference. Why would Obama say "vagina" during his speech? Or "Voldemort"?

Though maybe "Victory". I thought it was a smart, direct, speech. Very good and much needed. Heck, maybe it will even kick-start some of these Congresscritters.

"It only takes 5% of us to send you all back into Republicanism."

Let me correct that for you....

It only takes 5% of us to send US all back into Republicanism.

Because unless you think you are somehow above the fray, all you are doing is cutting off your nose to spite your face with these kind of statements.

I'm a self-insured small business owner, unfortunately I can't afford to offer any health insurance to my employees and the only insurance I can afford for myself is high deductible with a lot of restrictions. Our system is broken, the only people who don't think so are either very rich or very delusional and don't believe that bad things can happen to them-- getting really sick, getting fired, etc.

We need health care reform NOW.

Several expressed concerns that Obama downplayed or minimized the Public Option, but he was merely making the point that it would be a small part of the healthcare infrastructure, as it would only comprise about 3% of the total.

The issue is it is essential to reform, not it's size.

And in ten minutes kossacks4miller at ActBlue raised another $2,000 for Rob Miller's Congressional race against Joe Wilson. This could be fun. Turns out Miller only lost to Wilson by 8 points in 2008.

*pops popcorn*

First comments from Bill O'Reilly--the speech was 35 minutes... way too long.

That alone is a VERY good sign. He had nothing to offer. Not one productive comment... Just, "the speech was too long." A real idiot moment.

All WIN.

Note: "the v word" means, Obama would threaten to veto any bill not having a public option. He didn't say he would, so progressives are concerned. I can dig that. But I think we will push to have it. I hope he has the guts to sign even if no Republicans. Obama will need to say, he tried and they just wouldn't play ball.

BTW, as Time explained he already offered tort reform, but some MSM dingbats (like on NPR) acted as if this is a novel carrot.

Apparently Wilson has apologized.

Those papers the Repressive Reptiles were waving? Makeshift fans, to cool themselves off. We do it all the time, "down heah, in the South", though, mostly, at funeral services.

Joe F, Wilson made the kind of apology only a politician would make. He was sorry for the incivility, but still disagrees with what the President said. The President didn't offer an opinion, he offered a fact (one that happens to be objectively, verifiably true). Which is to say Wilson still was calling Obama a liar even in his apology. Nope. Nowhere close to sufficing.

if it hasn't been mentioned, fairly decent clown car member sherrod brown (d-oh) thinks obama was a lot stronger on the public option commitment than the speech indicated to most of us not privy to clown car hermeneutics.

brown says by dictating the requirements as clearly as he did, none of the other concepts (triggers, co-ops, all repugnant party members forced to donate a kidney, etc.) fit the necessities obama wants in the hcr bill.

i dont know.
we'll see.
but sherrod's good people, despite bein' part of the circus...

Great now everyone will be talking about Joe Wilson.

Benen will no doubt devote his blog to posts about Wilson for the next 4 months.

Take the bait everytime.

neill,

I think Senator Brown has it correct. Sure, Obama seemed to leave the Public Option as an option by saying if anyone has anything that will serve the same function he would be open to it.

But anything else proposed would have to be scored by the CBO and would FAIL.

Obama offered the RightWIng a sucker bet.

Well Cheshire, when a Congressmen tries to intimidate and hound a president, that is not a sign of comity. I can't recall that ever happening before--and definitely a sign of how bipartisanship works today. The Republicans have been opting for crazy since January, There is no reason to ignore it. They need to be called out. As mentioned in the speech.

I know it's not a laughing -- or even grinning -- matter, but I can't help it; my sense of humour is terminally warpoed; always has ben...

TPM reports that the uncivil, ungentlemanly, Joe-no-self-control Wilson followed his "in hot blood" defense (perfectly OK in Italian courts, after you shot your wife ad her lover) with a call to the White House, wanting to apologise, personally, to Obama.

And he got Emanuel at the other end (Obama, doubtless, being busy indoctrinating us to write to our Congress-critters)...

Now, most of the time, I don't like Emanuel; I think he was the wrongest possible "closest ally" pick, but... I'd have *loved* to hear him Rahm-out the hapless idiot from South Calinka :)

Obviously the ReThugliCons forced Wilson to at least fake apologize, as he was making then look as bad as they truly are.

["Jimmy" is an anti-reform lobbyist who has repeatedly sock-puppeted on the blog under various names, posting prepared boilerplate and quotes out of context -- mod.]

Joe Wilson's website is *off-line* this evening...what a co-inky-dink. HECKLE THE HECKLER! Can you imagine if a Democrat had done to Bush what he did to Obama?

I did not see the speech, have only read people's thoughts on it, but from what Steve live blogged here I am glad I didn't see it.

WTF IS HE DOING REFERENCING THAT ASSWIPE JOHN McCAIN???!!1!? except to point out what a TOTAL FREAKING DOUCHE HE IS???1!!?

I mean, really, people.

@12:03:

Someone's brain has been Jimmied and it's now on the Fritz. So sad...

4. I will force people into paying for health care insurance even if they don't want or need it.

The notion that this poster believes there are people who doesn't need or want health insurance speaks for itself. Is there a race of superpeople among us that we don't know about-- people who don't get sick, don't get injured, who don't have to ever worry about needing health care?

If all it takes is believing that nothing bad will ever happen to me then I'm cancelling my car insurance tomorrow.

Even though the majority of people like their private insurance, I will mandate a tax paid for "public option"

The public option is not tax-supported.

Government run Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid are going bankrupt

Social Security is going bankrupt? How'd that one work out for you in 2005?

Right. Pull the other one.

Even though people can't afford any new taxes and fees to pay for the "public option", I will impose higher taxes and fees on them anyway.

You already said that. It's still wrong.

I will force people into paying for health care insurance even if they don't want or need it.

Who doesn't need health insurance? Superman? Seriously, you get dumber all the time.

Medicare is so much more efficient and better run than private insurance and that is why I am so sure the Public Option will be so great. So when I cut 500 billion dollar to Medicare

Medicare costs less than $500 million a year (last figure I heard was $487 million). How do you take 500 from 487?

Were you home-schooled?

I will just be cutting out all that fraud and waste in Medicare. That is why I can promise you, there will be no cuts in health care services to Seniors. (Say what?)

Because waste and fraud, like the $1.7 billion stolen by astroturf guru Rick Scott, is not the same thing as services, you dumb cunt.

Health Care costs will not go up due to government forcing more expensive mandates on insurance companies.

On the contrary, mandates give them a larger risk sharing pool.

... you have no idea what that means, do you?

Death panels are just a bunch of lies. Just because I said "Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking painkillers." doesn't mean that Government bureaucrats in DC will have authority over life and death decisions like they do in the UK and Canada.

No, it doesn't mean that. Not if English is your first language.

Just because Democrat [sic] Special Interest Groups like government unions and Corporate interests like GE stand to benefit the most from Health Care Reform doesn't mean that some of the benefits won't trickle down to the public.

Was that supposed to be a reductio ad absurdum? If so, FAIL.

As usual, the opponents' politics are a function of their ignorance. The same trailer trash spouting the same Limbaugh lines, and they have no idea what any of it means.

Fortunately, other people think for a living, so they're not vulnerable to this ignorant shit.
.

I did not see the speech, have only read people's thoughts on it, but from what Steve live blogged here I am glad I didn't see it.

WTF IS HE DOING REFERENCING THAT ASSWIPE JOHN McCAIN???!!1!? except to point out what a TOTAL FREAKING DOUCHE HE IS???1!!?

I mean, really, people.

Um, you didn't read the speech yet you know you hated it. That's informed and mature. What a douche.

For pete's sake, do your homework first before spouting off and basing your shallow opinion on nothing more than the reactions of complete strangers.

billion with a 'b', not million with an 'm'.

Wow, Rob Miller (the Iraq vet who almost beat Joe Wilson in 2008 and is running against him in 2010) has raised close to $30,000 on ActBlue tonight: http://www.actblue.com/page/kossacks4miller. A guy with an extremely vulnerable seat should NOT be sticking his neck out like this....

Varecia,

"Can you imagine if a Democrat had done to Bush what he did to Obama?"

Cheney would have raised his rifle and shot the guy in the face.

Joe Friday: The three bills passed out of the House committees and the bill passed out of the Senate HELP committee are all virtually the same, with minor variations in at what percentage of the federal Poverty level the subsidies kick in, etc.

Each bill has contradictions within itself.

For tonight, I just wanted to say that it was an impressive speech with a convincing delivery. He really is a good speaker. It was a good night for proponents of the health insurance reform.

Would he really refuse to sign a bill that the CBO said produced a huge increase in the deficit? That's a question, like other questions, for another day.

For now, let Americans savor a good speech by the American president.

Could we stay focused on the substance of Obama's tremendous speech and not get distracted by the meatball from SC? Do we have national ADD?

karen marie: Obama was very smart by stroking McCain's very large ego. Yeh, I hated seeing McCain's stupid grinning mug on my teevee, but Obama played him good.

But what really pleased me was Obama showing he is reasonable (he didn't sound like a socialist, nor Hitler, gosh!) and for going after the Rs for their lying and hypocrisy. And watching the Rs, sitting on their hands when the president praised Medicare? Priceless.

Obama punched hard at the Republicans-not a good nite for them.

For tonight, I just wanted to say that it was an impressive speech with a convincing delivery. He really is a good speaker.

No one cares what a serial liar like you has to say, Marler, even if it is complimentary to Obama. While it's pleasing to see the tacit acknowledgement of your nonexistent credibility due to years of dishonest water carrying for the GOP that's inherent in your pretense, no one, but no one, mistakes you for an honest commentator. Shame on you, Marler.

Matthew,

"Each bill has contradictions within itself."

The only contradictions are in your mind.