"no one seems to have any idea how Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) will vote"

Who cares? At this point the only interesting thing about Snowe's vote is which side she personally wants to come down on. She irrelevant, though. I actually think there is a better chance of her support now that she's not needed.

I never thought the insurance corporations were negotiating in good faith - and now we know.

There ought to be a robust open public option in the final legislation, or, better yet, let's go with what would have actually worked from the beginning to both provide quality health care to all and control costs - SINGLE PAYER!

Yesterday's threat was just proof that the insurance companies are more than willing to manipulate every aspect of the issue to hold on to their regional monopolies.

They are in the business of increasing their shareholders wealth, and by extension, their executives' wealth.

They live off of their policy holders, often demanding more and more from said policyholders until the day comes when they are called upon for coverage of health care services. On that day, it is not uncommon for the insurance company to find a reason, an excuse, to drop coverage.

They are parasites who, in the classic sense, eventually kill their hosts.

AHIP's big news is that premiums could "skyrocket" over the next 10 years. At least, that's what some NPR idiot intoned this morning before I broke the on/off switch on my car stereo.

Does AHIP think we're all too dumb to notice that premiums skyrocketed over the LAST 10 years? I went from paying nothing for family coverage to paying $250 a month.

I doubt they'll sway anyone with the argument that premiums will get worse under the Baucus bill.

I think George & Ambinder are dreaming, and they may be the only two people on Earth who didn't expect the insurance industry to start pouring out bogus info in the 11th hour. Have these guys been asleep for the past 30 years?

"an alacrity unfamiliar to Democrats."

Quite an understatement. Way too often the Democrats act like Wile E Coyote being outmaneuvered every time by the faster GOP.

Can one hope that one outcome from this health care debate might be a nimbler, more coherent and focused Democratic voice?

One can only dream.

Will all of those who believe that the insurance industry will hold down premium increases if we DON'T pass health reform please raise your hands.....anyone? anyone?.... Baucus?.... Buehler? I thought so. These scam artists will raise future premiums no matter what we do. The only brake on their greedy accelerator is a competing public option.

I'm not sure why the insurance companies are so opposed to the public option when they have so many advantages as it is with the bills that are in the hopper.

For one thing the public option is just one option, the big thing is that insurance will be mandatory, the way it is with Medicare, and they will not only be able to sell half-ass policies (like the little cancer policies so many of them made money on) but set the same lemon dropping/cherry picking terms that they have right now. They can continue to discriminate against sick people and send them to the public option. (This is no matter what rules are set, they have smarter lawyers than the government and can get around the regulations with ease.)

Also, who do you think will administer these public option programs? There won't be a sudden influx of insurance experts so the public option will be contracted out to, you guessed it, the insurance companies who will have the same powers they have now and the same incentives. They will continue to make money, just not as fast as they had before.

The public policy benefits of public option are clear. Small business owners will have their employees covered without risk to themselves and may even be able to offer the premiums as an enticement to work for them. There will be fewer hassles administratively for all involved (30% of private insurance costs are administrative - read huge salaries for the CEOs) and a more transparent system. Remuneration to doctors may or may not be less depending on how the public option is administered (i.e through the states like Medicaid or the feds a' la' Medicare.)

No matter what happens, the insurance companies come out ahead. Right now they are just negotiating.

Thing is they complain that insurance rates will actually go up. Why would they care about that? Usually if your margin goes down, you want your prices to go up to cover the difference and make the same dollars in profit.

Does AHIP think we're all too dumb to notice that premiums skyrocketed over the LAST 10 years?

Yes, they think that. And do you know what- they're right. Most people *are* that stupid.

-Z

Are we supposed to admire the amoral political games that the Republicans play? Republicans are ruthless tribal loyalists who care more about the accumulation of power amongst their own little tribe than they do about the progress and security of America as a whole.

For 8 years of Bush, countless Democrats voted for various Republican-written bills and budgets. Now that the Republicans are in the minority, suddenly it's time to put party before country?

Republicans are a**holes. It can't be said enough.

I honestly don't know why most of the comments I'm reading above were written. We're all liberals here. We all realize the insurance industry are crooks, the media's bad, and Republicans suck. So everything you're writing is written to people who already agreed with you many years before you wrote it.

But you see, there's this thing called "politics," which require us to play stupid games and Republicans happen to have an easier time at it because it's all they're interested in doing. And so we have to jump throw certain hoops and play along because not everyone automatically agrees with us about everything. And that's an unfortunate state of events, but being that this is a democracy, it's required. Being right and having the right policies is absolutely no good if you don't play the game properly. Appearances are everything in politics.

And the insurance industry is also good at playing these games and they were doing a decent job at stalling reform efforts without looking like dicks about it. But with this report, they blew it. They went out of character by releasing a ridiculous report with no credibility, and they not only look like lying dicks, but they've also burned the politicians they were screwing with. And this now gives us the upperhand. This is how it works.

Yes, it'd be great if we had a liberal-led dictatorship which allowed Obama to pass any bill he wanted, or a system in which the American people could spend as much time as we do studying the issues and the politicians involved, but that's simply not the case. You go with the electorate you have and all that. Fortunately, a majority of people still support us, we still have a popular president who wants to pass a good healthcare bill, and now our opponents are feeling weak and screwing up. But this just isn't something that could have happened earlier in the year. We needed to play the game the best we can, and now things are moving more our way.

Doctor Biobrain @ 12:44:

Nicely said. Liberals often shoot themselves in the foot in the name of integrity; a wonderful trait to possess, but a handicap when playing the game against those who's objective is simply to win.