Ben Nelson has (surprisingly) actually sounded fairly positive about "opt out".

What's probably going to happen is that 59 Democrats will vote for cloture but Kent Conrad will filibuster the bill on the grounds that it can't get 60 votes for cloture.

Those other conservadems better come around soon. Its pitchforks and torches for any democrat that goes against their party on procedural votes. What Bayh said aside, the caucus better get their pound of flesh (no committee chairs, removal from their favoirite committee, etc.) out of any dem who gets behind and filibuster ATTEMPT (remember there is no filibuster if the dems stick together) by the repiglicans.

Mary Landrieu is really dumb, isn't she.

will it be an actual filibuster, where they have to talk? That would be most embarrassing, and preferable, and possibly not sustainable for a few hours. Or is it merely procedural?

Bayh and Lincoln won't filibuster. They're both up for reelection next year, and killing health care would kill their reelection chances. In the end, I suspect Olympia Snowe won't either. I suspect Bayh votes for the bill, and Lincoln votes against, but both vote for cloture.

Conrad is somewhat worrisome, because he's not entirely gutless. He did vote against the Iraq War, for example. But I doubt he'd want to be the only Democrat voting against cloture. That's a hard vote to cast.

I am frustrated by so much of the pundit discussion that focuses on the need for 60 votes for the public option. We don't need 60 votes. We only need 60 to call for a vote and some Democrats may vote to stop a filibuster while voting against the bill. This happened in GOP-controlled Senate. Even some Dems voted to stop a filibuster and then voted no on the bill they could have blocked.

"I conveyed to Leader Reid that a number of moderates still were extremely concerned about a government-run, taxpayer-funded, national public plan," Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.)****************

OK Mary, then give up YOUR government sponsored, tax-payer supported health care! I mean, since your so concerned and all.
And by the way, Contrary Mary, that 'national' plan you refer to, the public competitive option, is only available to those who can't get health care thru their work, or who don't have it now, or were thrown out by their oh-so-compassionate insurance companies. "Heal thyself" or die is the message. Most people actually would not be eligible, so to call it a 'national, government-run' plan is disingenuous. Regular doctors, hospitals and medical care would be available to those enrolled, not some, goddess forbid, "government run" facility, as you seem to imply. Tool.

it's good to know that these narcissistic shitheads -- most of whom have seemed too stoopid to even know what health care reform is about and too sociopathological to care -- still have a sense of self-preservation, or a good staffperson, to not blatantly destroy the possibility of health care reform.

god damn but the senate is nothing but a worthless clown car...

I got one of those emergency emails from the progressives (forget which group, not seeing email right now) urging me to petition Obama not to vote for a crummy bill, just to get Olympia Snowe and "bipartisanship" on it. I sent it in - and recommend, please contact the WH etc. about this. Without the public option, "reform" is no reform.

IMHO that even applies to opt out, but we might try to insist that State opt out has to be from public referendum and not State legislature. That would make it harder, and force acceptance of public sentiment.

Hopefully, someone has made it clear to these a-holes that blocking cloture will guarantee a nation-wide shitstorm of opposition. It WILL get personal.

This video completely nails it for me:

http://www.actblue.com/page/obamafight

Eyeing the most phenomenal fact going forward

Despite the Republicans best efforts to scare the country with lies and poison the debate with anger, poll after poll shows Americans prefer a public option.

That really is astounding.
It plainly demonstrates this evolutionary fact: The Public Option is an idea whose time has come.
Americans and American industry needs this to be competitive going forward.
That's just so damn obvious.

And this is obvious too:
If we don't get it a lot of us are going to be: Stark. Raving. Mad.

Keep in mind that Barack ran on the platform that our voices would be heard. That industry wouldn't own the table, but rather, that they would have a seat at the table. That we would always know where he stood on an issue. And that he would always be looking out for our best interests.

This is his BULL-SHIT moment...

The public option is in the nation's best interest. It is a no-brainer. Only nihilists and those in the employ of insurance companies can offer non-compelling counter-arguments.

So let's cut to the shit here boys and girls:
Get this bitch done...

Or the left wing will bring their wrath.
You think the wingnuts are chewing you up bad?
Wait until you truly piss off the left...

Joe Lieberman says NOW that he will not support a filibuster. That does not of a necessity bear any resemblance to what he will say when it comes time to vote. It's funny the way trusting people believe Lieberman when he says what they hope to hear, in spite of his reliably taking his marching orders from the Republicans ever since his failed bid to secure the Democratic presidential nomination. Joe Lieberman is a conservative Republican in everything but name, because they play to his ego and tell him how wise he is, like Mowgli hanging out with the monkey people. He will vote the way the Republicans tell him to vote, and the sooner you start planning around that fact, the less disappointed you'll be by his continuing betrayals.

This is his BULL-SHIT moment...

Amen. It's the "fierce urgency" of "dancing with them what brung you."

All it means is there will be a vote. Doesn't mean it's going to pass. As someone upthread said, you can vote for cloture and against the bill. Just like many in the House will vote for the special rule and against the bill.

Some time on a waterboard would clear up any confusion in these conservadems minds.

A personal anecdote: Last Monday, I flew from Little Rock to Atlanta. Blanche Lincoln was on my flight. After deplaning, she was waiting for her gate-side checked luggage and I said to her "I hope you will not fillibuster the health care reform bill". She said "Oh no, we will be passing a reform bill". She went on to say she supported choice, blah blah blah, like she has said in public venues and it was clear to me that she favors the trigger. But it is encouraging that she indicated there would not be a fillibuster.

Cloture could be accomplished by flooding Maine with this gut-wrenching ad:

http://www.actblue.com/page/obamafight

Don't compromise to big business! The American public is behind real health care reform with a strong public option - Medicare for all.

The real economy is in the dumper while we've watched the rich reward themselves record bonuses with OUR MONEY. The American public's anger against the bailout of banksters that wrecked the world economy is more visceral and palpable than health care, and crosses party lines.

If the Democrats bail out a FAILED health insurance industry after bailing out Wall St, then the voter backlash on 2010 will be large, real and across party lines. Don't blow it, don't compromise with the Republicans or the insurance industry. Compromise is exactly what the Republicans expect you to do - and they will tar and feather you with it in 2010 and 2012.

Sometimes I really think Mary Landfill just hasn't woken up yet. She's such a dope!

She [Blanche Lincoln] said "Oh no, we will be passing a reform bill". -- Joan, @ 18:21

I kept waiting and waiting for the punchline -- "and then, I woke up" -- but it never came :)

exlibra - I know what you mean. When she answered "we", I wondered if she understood that I was asking her if SHE would filibuster. Then I wondered if she felt confident that something very watered down would be put up, so she would have no problem voting for cloture. Who knows what she really meant by any of this. By the way, I would have followed up in my questioning, but Mike Huckabee was also on that flight and he chose that moment to interrupt my conversation with Lincoln to say "hello" to her. They were quite chummy.