Dems may not like it, but democracy means the rule of the majority, and if they are two votes short then obamacare is over.

It's feeding time at the zoo: once a Senator knows a bill will pass the only question is "what's in it for me?"

The Blue Dogs will come on board if they get their payoff, that is the way the game is played. Progressives may want real health care reform, but Blue Dogs want money, or some other graft. Does anyone honestly think these folk are ideologues? No way. Some, like Mary Landrieu, don't even understand the issues involved in the debate.

Frankly, that's OK with me. As long as the legislation is worth passing, the bribe is worth paying.

That's interesting because I thought Bayh and Nelson were the holdouts not Lincoln.

Al has said some funny things on these boards, but this has to be the funniest.

So, if two Democrats switch sides, and the bill gets 58 "yes" votes, with 42 "no" votes, thus killing the bill, that is OK by Al because "democracy means the rule of the majority".

Thanks Al, that was a good one!

From the Unabridged Dictionary of RepublicanSpeak:

Majority - When democrats control the senate, a majority is one more than the number of democrat senators. When republicans control the senate, a majority is equal to 50+1.

another week

another puppet show...

Any Democratic Senator who fails to vote for cloture should immediately be stripped of all chairmanships. Otherwise just what the hell does it even mean to have a "Democratic caucus"?

Steve LaBonne is absolutely correct! Any "Democratic" senator who does not support this, the most important legislation since Medicare should be dishonorably dismissed from the Caucus and lost any seniority. And Al should crawl back in the hole from whence he came.

related fake news

SUB-ROSA NEWS

Some of the News
That may be True

OBAMA APPOINTS OLYMPIA SNOWE AS HEALTH CZAR

In recognition of Senator Snowe's immense contribution to health care reform legislation,, President Obama has named her to the new office of National Health Care Director. In a written statement, the President noted the Senator's long study and deep knowledge of health care issues facing the nation. In addition, her work in the Senate has made the reform bill truly bi-partisan.

White House press spokesman Robert Gibbs denied rumors that appointment to this office was the price demanded for her vote. He noted that it was clear that her strong efforts in support of real reform were made because history had called.

homer www.altara.blogspot.com

I'm actually fine with them voting against the bill itself, if they feel they need to for political cover, as long as we still have 50 + Biden. But against cloture? Nuke 'em.

Claire McCasgill does not care about her taxpayers who vote. She only cares about preserving her campaign funds from insurance companies that rape and pillage tax payers with increased rates and co pays; military contractors that practice sodomy. She doesn't consider decreasing the budget for the war mongering department (DOD) to help pay for Health care.She would prefer to follow the politically amoral by refusing Medical insuracnce for the very taxpayers she represents/

From the day, literally, that this opt out plan was floated I absolutely loved it both for policy and political reasons. I have no idea why some Democrats and progressives haven't really hit a couple of the obvious high points but its worth repeating again.

An opt out clause in a public option allows Harry Reid to push a stronger version of the bill. The reason being is that Dem Senators like Conrad and Baucus who claim their state would be harmed by a public option would Medicare rates could simply be told "Well then your state can opt out". This is a reasonable stance and they still would get the benefit of EVERYTHING else in the bill which they claim to like. That is how you get to cloture for all but the most bought off Democrats. When it gets down to people like Nelson then you go public and challenge him to explain why he would object to a public option if he likes the rest of the bill and his state could opt out. Bam strong public option with medicare rates and cloture.

But even for people who are concerning about the politics of a public option the opt out is PERFECT. Its almost the mirror image situation as the Stimulus bill earlier this year but better. With the stimulus bill ALL these Republicans were against it calling it socialist and voting against the bill. And since that time they have all been promoting all the things the bill has done to help their constitutents except usually they fail to mention that the big checks they are handing out come from the stimulus bill or the big road project came from the stimulus bill. And in the end after all the moaning and groaning not one single Republican Governor turned down a substantial portion of their fair share.

With the public option there will be no way for such subterfuge. Republican Governors will have to publicly and overtly reject the public option over the will of the majority of their constituents or face the backlash from their base. Talk about a rock and a hard place. In the end I suspect the overwhelming majority will go with their constituents over their political base and keep the public option. For the few who consider rejecting it the backlash will be swift and strong. Talk about an implosion waiting to happen.

I seriously don't understand why more people aren't talking up the opt out. And I am not talking in a guarded "we will see" kinda way. But in a very hopeful, this can be what we have been waiting for, kinda way. I realize that the notion came to be out of happenstance but many times some of the best plans do.

Just sayin

If there is to be an op-out of PO for States, it at least should have to be by public referendum and not Legislative vote - force opponents to get the public vote if they can.

SGW - Because we don't know what the "ot-out" will be.

Remember when they got us all to talk up a public option by floating a huge plan that would be open to all Americans and provide quality healthcare and then turned around and offered a plan open to 3% of the population that wouldn't likely cover much of anything at all?

Thats why people aren't talking ip "Opt-out". The limosuine liberals will just pull another bait-and-switch, and suddenly states will be opting out of having a state-wide public option (not a federal one) with gigantic co-pays.