Shouldn't most political debate be framed as between those who represent the 'status quo' and 'progressives' who want to change that status quo?

All of this Republican and Democrat, conservative and liberal, framing has always been nonsense.

The Money Party wants to maintain the Health Care Insurance status quo. Progressives want affordable health care for all Americans.

Anyone see the claptrap headlining Politico this morning? George Bush wiretapped without warrants, tortured people, and invaded a country on false pretenses. Gee, why does Obama get away with so much stuff?

This posting by Benen is utter nonsense!

I know this because the liberal Washington Post has an opinion today by the powerful William Kristol which says otherwise.

As we all know, Mr. Kristol is always correct in his analysis and predictions. He states that now is "A good time to be a conservative". He says "...a plurality of respondents disapproved of Obama-type health-care reform. In other words, they agree with the Republicans in Congress."

As William Kristol has never been wrong, Steve Benen must obviously be!

" ... the relative strength of the Senate reform plan is entirely due to the tireless work of dirty fucking hippie activists and their allies on the Hill."

Fixed.

And you're welcome.

But for now, progressives deserve some credit for getting us to where we are now.

Is it "DESERVE some credit" or "deserve SOME credit?"

I don't know why everybody is patting themselves on the back. The voting hasn't happened. The fight is still on.

We need to make sure that we get real reform and not a sham.

Time for the MSM commentators to begin giving all the credit to "moderates" and claim progressives just hindered compromise by being "shrill!"

Remember, you Libruls and Leftists are just emotional children who should be letting your "betters" do the grown-up work in the legislature!

you know what's really pathetic about this? The Progressives are saving the Blue Dogs and the Senate leadership from themselves!

It's totally nuts. The blue dogs are so intent on pleasing their corporate masters they're willing to put their own jobs in jeopardy, since it seems all but certain that if reform fails--or if there's a mandate with no non-profit, low-cost option--the blue dogs are the first ones who'll lose to GOP candidates.

so, the Progressives save Blue Dog jobs, and get nothing but shit for it. That's some real crazy.

(oh, and really, fuck the level-playing field! the whole point of a non-profit option is that it would be much cheaper and better than private insurance. I wish someone would explain to me just why the People's Representatives are more concerned with Insurance company profits than with the health and well-being of their voters...)

Credit sum , some deserve .

A game features all kinds of intangibles, and factors outside players' control, but in certain, close contests, it can come down to who wants it more.

I see that as part of the problem. This shouldn't be a close contest. A majority of Americans want a Public Option (if not something better) and many of our elected representatives are not representing the constituents that voted them into power.

Kudos to the people working hard who actually are doing what their constituents want. Kudos to the people pushing our reps to do the right thing.

I have to stay away from cable news. Every time I'm walking by the TV and someone like Tweety yelps, "Wow, this is a victory for the netroots!" or "The liberal wing of the party got its way!" I yell, "Yeah, we got our way making Congress finally do what a solid majority of Americans want it to do."

It's fine to give ourselves credit, but I hate the way this is being characterized as far-left policymaking. There are many times when what we want isn't what the majority of Americans say they want. This isn't one of them. Our position is entirely mainstream and it took a bunch of DFHs to make Congress do the country's bidding.

so far we have no idea what is going to be the real reform of health care in this country when this is done and law.

there is plenty of time for the corporations to turn everything to shit, in a variety of power plays...

the only real victory by progressives, is that reality was able to dialogue with bullshit, and reality proved its case enough that the multitude of bullshitters couldn't stomp it to death (as has been easily done for the past 8 years).

whether real health care reform prevails -- meaning, you know, people actually can get health care they can afford -- is hardly anywhere near accomplished.

there is no relenting on this. on amy of this. this war against corporate power.

someday, when these clown car senators say things like olympia snowe said about her "deep disappointment" yesterday, the reaction should be vomiting in the streets of america... but of course the washington press corps must first vomit, and these darlings of the village, must re-learn how to be sickened from eating shit...

I agree with anomaly. All too often the noise in DC is just shiny objects to distract the public while the Money class picks the middle classes' pockets.

Progressives are really fighting to return control of our country to the people.

Yes to Steve's observations: it appears that when we express our views someone is listening. That this is remarkable goes to the heart of what went wrong (politically, internationally, fiscally) after 1/20/01. What a lot of people before me on this thread have said is right: we're called "progressives," and that's okay, but what I am is an American who believes in the Bill of Rights and the rule of law, including those that protect and help workers and the poor. I want the America I grew up believing in: an inspiring country that cared about people, ethics, and justice. So in truth I don't feel progressive --: I feel old-fashioned.

Is it really fair to include the anti-Obama progressives who keep telling us that real healthcare reform can't happen, Republicans always beat us, and insist that Obama has already betrayed us? I've always supported the idea of people to the left of me pulling/pushing policies to the left, but never understood how they imagined all this cynical naysaying could possibly achieve that. While I'm sure they wanted a perfect policy, their actions merely entailed attacking others for not agreeing with them that we couldn't get one.

If someone starts from the position that we can't win, and that, no matter how good the reform bill is, corporations will somehow find a way to beat it; I fail to see how they can claim victory as if they had something to do with it. And yes, I'm definitely including neill above. Cynicism isn't a plan.

Steve, any chance that you're going to give Burris, one of only three Senators mentioned in the piece, some credit? Or are you going to continue your racist attacks against his speech patterns and intelligence?

Oh, and Doctor Bio, you get extra credit for continuing your ceaseless attack against strawmen. Excellent batting ave ya got there. With pseudo-progs like you, we really don't need Fox News.