I admit I'm a little skeptical of the idea that deep red states will suddenly look over at their neighbors and go "Gosh, maybe they were right". For one, the public option won't affect *that* many people, so most of the population won't have it and may not care about people that do. And for two, if it were as easy as seeing that the grass was greener, we'd have switched to the Canadian system a long time ago.

'It's hard to think of something that could force the GOP to make itself even more unpopular than it already is, but this might be it.'

I love it

Those are both good points Jake but the second point I think may apply more to the opt-in then the opt-out. That is, legislators will be forced to take away something people already have. Not give them something they see elsewhere.

If you don't see the similarities with the "no earmarks" stimulus bill which requires local politicians to work to get the money...then accept it...you might think this was just a happy fluke.

The whole point is to put money into something people can use and not into the hands of large corporations or defense contractors.

Tax cuts for the rich go not just to the rich, but to the foreign owners of our major enterprises, while domestic spending helps everyone here regardless of their situation.

This is all so god damn silly -- TPM, Sully -- shbit, it's like reading Newsweek or sumptin'...

The Public Option is the mechanism to get Single-Payer-Universal-Health-Care here in the United Snakes of America.

It is a default position set-up to start the process that just absorbs the private insurance fiasco once the government -- some brave patriotic person in the government -- has the guts to drive a take through the hearts of the private insurance companies and end their reign of terror over Americans' health issues. They are corrupt, greedy killers, and will never get what they deserve, but i hope in 10 years they will be out of business.

That may entail starting with an opt-out or (a god damn) opt-in...those rotten assholes in Washington are willing to kill people and let others die for the insurance companies.

That is about the only realistic scenario I can imagine with the rats, thugs, puppets and arrogant assholes we have in corporate and government power today.

Tell us how you really feel, neill.

I admit I'm a little skeptical of the idea that deep red states will suddenly look over at their neighbors and go "Gosh, maybe they were right".

Arizona did precisely that in the early '80 re Medicaid, though it took an initiative petition to drive the legislature to it.

I admit I'm a little skeptical of the idea that deep red states will suddenly look over at their neighbors and go "Gosh, maybe they were right".

Fixed botched blockquote...

...not that i'm not hopeful, hopeful...

just, now more for the grandkids than the kids...

How can Americans sit on their hands while Joe Lieberman takes millions from insurance companies to stop health care for everyone(affordable), the overseas media shows pictures of the thousands of Americans in line at free health care clinics, and we call ourselves the greatest country in the world (only if you are rich)

What if the opposite of Sullivan's analysis happens, and, say, S.Carolina opts out coz their GOP pols don't care about the poor? People who need the public option may start emigrating en masse to N. Carolina if they can't wait for the next election cycle and a possible re-vote on opting back in.
You think S.Carolina would be sad to see its poorest citizens just go away? Jim DeMint crying about the decreased black population in SC?

If I wuz the Majority Leader, I'd take an extremely hard line against Lieberman, who's made himself a target and whom Democrats don't particularly like anyway. I'd boot him out as the head of Homeland Security and replace him with someone who'll really ratchet things up and get investigations initiated. If Lieberman proves himself to be a loyal Democrat and gets back into line, he can have his seat back, otherwise "Gee *Sigh*, I guess I just have to make the liberals happy by keeping Lieberman in his new position as just a reg'lar ol' Senator." That way, Lieberman would feel pressure, not just to get back into line, but to get back into line quickly.

Is there a way to require public referendum on the PO-OO? In addition to being more fair in terms of what citizens of each State want, I think that would be politically advantageous. Legislatures couldn't posture, they'd have to accept what their publics wanted.

Also, if we can get enough votes for cloture, we don't need the 60. Note how Repugs are already insisting that a vote on cloture is a vote on the merits on the bill itself. That is of course ridiculous, since filibuster is not an automatic part of voting per se and it's a game point whether the bill deserves to be voted on directly aside from ones opinion of the bill.

This opt-out accomplishes many delightful things a full public option wouldn't.

1. It calls the GOP out on their bullshit.
2. It gives people a chance to see GOP policy vs Dem policy in action, if red states stick to the GOP bluff. Although as Anonymous Liberal already commented, the gap between red states and blue will be nil because private insurers will be forced to lower prices across the nation lest the naked comparison be obvious and embarrassing.
3. It doesn't force the ever dreaded "big government" onto states. They get to choose.
4. It may help get enough votes to accomplish what was declared officially 'dead' by most beltway pundits only a few weeks ago.

Good job. I give credit to koreyel.

If you want to know Republicans response to arguments "you can opt out so why do you care?" just go to to any conservative blog-site.

Their response?: "We'll still have to pay taxes for it and our Medicare will be gutted to pay for it."

Those are both lies of course, since Medicare won't be "gutted" and because it would cost LESS with a PO. But, remember that 2/3 of the Republican party just watches Fox News and most of them STILL believe that we found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and that Saddam helped plan 9-11.

If you point out to these ass-hats that none of these things is actually true they respond that the media is covering up the truth.

They won't believe anything that contradicts their world view. A successful government run program directly refutes the right-wing notion that "government can't do anything right."

That's why they are opposed.

AS long as there is a majority of Conservatives in some states who will only watch Fox News and listen to Rush Limbaugh NOTHING will get through to them.

The only way is to organize around them and beat them down. That will take a lot of time, but if this bill passes and especially if it is strengthened in coming years, it will eventually be possible -- just as now Republicans can't defeat Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid. Too many people (even right wingers) depend on it.

Is there a way to require public referendum on the PO-OO?

New York, Texas, and (except for constitutional amendments) Florida, for example, do not.

Hey Steve B, what the hell are you (guys - I don't know who decides) doing allowing anti-Democrat ads like the deedsuncut.com? That race in VA is crucial and this trash undercuts our and Obama's efforts here to prevent McDonnell to win. If he wins, Repugs will spin this into having pretended big implications. This is supposed to be a progressive blog, not just anysite.com that whores to whoever pays to put in an ad. Do you get that?

People who need the public option may start emigrating en masse to N. Carolina if they can't wait for the next election cycle and a possible re-vote on opting back in.
You think S.Carolina would be sad to see its poorest citizens just go away?

This is mostly true-- one of the more frustrating tendencies I've observed among red-staters is the vague-but-unmistakable assertion that their dismal quality-of-life stats aren't really accurate because the lower classes are somehow so much worse (or worse off, anyway) than in other states. IOW, it's perfectly nice here-- never mind that the more affluent enclave are usually no better than mediocre by national standards-- if one discounts the untouchables! This is another one of their neat little defensive rhetorical tricks that flatters the upper classes and stokes resentment toward their lower ones.

That said, the dismal prospects in places like SC would also continue their brain drain problem (not that it seems to worry them much IME) and in the long run stifle economic development even more. Given the right's capacity for self-justification & denial, this may not be something they'll accept, but it'll certainly matter to outsiders they're trying to entice.

The only republican idea to overhaul healthcare that I have heard was from Rep Broun of Georgia, he wants to privatize Medicare and give seniors vouchers to buy private health insurance. Funny thing though - I have not heard the teabaggers shouting the odds at him for wanting to get his hands on their medicare!

Can someone explain why reconciliation is not being mentioned?

I've heard several senators refer to health care reform as the most significant legislation in a generation. If this is the case, why not use the rules of the senate to get this thing passed - thru any legitimate means possible, instead of dithering over cloture votes. I'm sick of all of this posturing bullshit. Dems control both houses and the White House. MAKE IT HAPPEN!

The really fun part about this is the wedge it drives between state Republicans and national Republicans. We saw some of it during the stimulus debate when Republicans in Congress were posturing about how their state didn't need any stinkin' stimulus money while Republicans in state legislatures were busily putting in their applications to get that money.

The opt-out compromise is blue state progressives throwing red state progressives (who helped deliver a Democratic Congress and Democratic President with their money and time) under the bus. It's blue state progressives throwing the the poor and disenfranchised living in red states under the bus for the hope of long-term political gain. It's kicking the can down the road for millions, so that those living in blue states can get theirs now.

All this nonsense about people quitting their jobs, selling their homes and uprooting their families to move blue states to chase affordable health insurance is exactly that. It won't happen, and it's cruel to suggest it. All this nonsense about the opt-out being a work of genius because it will turn red states blue is also exactly that. It won't happen, and anybody who thinks otherwise doesn't know the first thing about red state politics.

Maybe I'm a genius, but this occurred to me as soon as I heard about opt-out.

Maybe I should be a pundit?

I just assumed it was a political gotcha.

Chris @ 1:06 PM:
"The opt-out compromise...is blue-state progressives throwing red-state progressives...under the bus."
It's an an ambulance, not a bus.
Seriously, do you actually believe that ANY state legislature would vote against this? Or that any governor wouldn't veto it if they did?
If your opinion of "red-state" politics reflects the actual facts, why in the world are you remaining on that sinking ship? Get out now if you have to pack a suitcase and walk! I'm not joking, leave.
You state: "It (red states turning blue) won't happen." So, everyone is supposed to go without, because YOU may be left out? There's some empathy, for you!
Exactly one state (Arizona) opted out of Medicare. And then opted back in several years later. Perhaps it had something to do with the increasing number of retirees? Or maybe it just the "right" year to join up? By your logic, however, NOONE should have had access to Medicare until the loons, I mean voters in AZ agreed to allow their seniors to participate. That would have been an awful lot of uninsured (read: bankrupt) elderly people. Nor would the tragedy end there; the children of many of those elderly would also likely end up either bankrupt or financially stripped attempting to help their parents.
Any state that is stupid enough to opt-out will most likely re-enter within 2-3 years simply because they won't be able to attract any new businesses and they'll find the pool of available labor drying up - it's fairly easy for young, unattached people to pick up and leave, you know. And they do. And they will. Which will leave those opted-out states with aging populations, higher taxes and higher insurance costs. That last will be because the subsidy that goes with the required insurance mandate won't be calculated on a state-by-state basis, but rather nationally. And if costs are down nationally, but not in a particular state, guess whose insurance is going to cost more?
If a majority of the voting population of any state is willing to cut off their noses to, well, to cut off their noses, by not replacing the idiots in the legislature with sane people, I'm not going to lose any sleep.
If you wish to remain is such a place, that is YOUR option.