The private sector was overly optimistic about what they could produce, and HHS relied on estimates from manufacturers about the speed and supply of a vaccine that turned out to be wrong.

But, but, but . . . the private sector is the silver bullet, it's man carrying out God's plan on Earth. St. Ronald told us so!

However, the private sector has been hamstrung by burdensome regulations -- you know, like how the drugs they manufacture have to actually do what they're supposed to and how they're not supposed to kill too many people -- silly little things like that.

So it's still all Obama's fault.

Juan Williams:"But I don't think most Americans are blaming the Obama administration . . ."

Oh, Juan, you silly, silly man. Just wait until Fox News et al put their spin on 'most Americans'. . .

SteveT beat me to it: Market Failure!

Which will be interpreted by the righties as Too Much Regulation.

I don't supposed we can just ignore them and hope they go away.

The private sector was overly optimistic about what they could produce

Ahhh yes but nevermind the facts man. George Will ran with the H1N1 story as proof positive that govt-run healthcare will be a disaster - and he's always right.

I appreciate your giving Juan Williams his proper style and title:

Even Fox News' Juan Williams.

Lock, stock, and barrel.

Making a mockery of democracy...

Of course Juan is right.
And so the real debating point in a healthy functioning democracy would be:

Since private industry has FAILED in this emergency, should the US get in the business of manufacturing vaccine before a really nasty bug comes around?

But we can't have that debate. The country isn't intellectually capable of it. And we all know why: Socialism is dead and the Gods of privatization reign unopposed. The error to the left is now an error to the right.

Consequently, we are one superbug away from epic fail.

Why does the GOP hate the Free Market (private vaccine manufacturers) so much?

The H1N1 strain grows slower than the seasonal flu strains, hence there is less virus to put in the vaccine when the chick embryos are harvested at the proper time. Could a wingnut please explain exactly how this is President Obama's fault?

Wasn't there funding in the original stimulus bill to assist with flu pandemics that was removed due to centrist demands? Or am I just confused as always.

I hold Obama personally responsible for all the bodies in the streets from this epidemic.

It amazes me how many otherwise-intelligent people are somehow too dim to recognize that the vaccine production system (which is not a huge money-maker for the companies; they'd rather be doing something else, profit-wise) had to produce this year:

1. Two different flu vaccines;
2. One of them with a significantly shorter lead time than normal;
3. With a limited ability, on that kind of short notice, to significantly increase the production facilities available for vaccine production.

It's not Obama's fault; the Obama administration did what it could to increase the resources and raise the priority. The small number of companies actually doing vaccine production probably also did their best on this. Even some of the seeming inanities--getting the inhalation H1N1 vaccine first, when it's not safe for the vulnerable populations that should be vaccinated first--are the result of the fact that modified live virus vaccines can be produced faster and easier than killed virus vaccines.

Much as we'd all prefer to have someone to blame, in the immediate situation, there isn't much blame to go around.

The fault lies in the decisions, both corporate and political, that resulted in the relatively small number of companies and limited production facilities available for vaccine production. That's what we need to change. One possible carrot-and-stick approach: Guarantee companies that produce flu vaccine that the Federal government will pay for up to 120% of the flu vaccine doses that the US Public Health Service projects will be necessary in any given year. That as long as the doses are produced and delivered, the company will be paid regardless of whether the doses actually get used.

And then, after a lead-in time of several years to allow the companies to ramp up available production facilities, impose a corresponding fine for failure to produce at least 95% of projected needed doses.

That's incredibly rough and off the top of my head. But the idea is to guarantee them that they will make a decent profit if they produce the vaccine doses projected to be necessary, and eventually also create a disincentive for undershooting.

Again, Steve, I'm a yellow-dog Dem, but as a parent of a medically compromised child I've been checking on the status of the vaccine with pediatricians and hospitals since summer, consulting the CDC's website, hanging onto each of Sibelius's and Frieden's comments as though they were Delphic oracles. Trust me, the vague and occasionally contradictory information trickling out of the administration have added up to an epic communications break-down. I don't know a single parent here in the People's Republic of Brooklyn that feels otherwise.

To date, no one can tell me how or when I can get vaccines for my children. I don't blame the government for manufacturing failures. I do blame the feds, state and local governments for not overseeing distribution of the vaccine more effectively -- isn't that the whole point of a Department of HHS or a CDC? Why did some healthy populations have access to the first wave of vaccines while other high-risk populations did not? Why have Sasha and Malia Obama been immunized but not many disabled children in New York City?

Isn't HHS's relationship to a pandemic the rough equivalent of FEMA's relationship to a natural disaster like a hurricane? Rather than simply adopt the administration's "It Ain't Our Fault" position, you need to address these arguments. Otherwise, you come across as a glib apologist, and do your readers a major disservice.

The Katrina comparison is obviously absurd and down-right offensive. What annoys me is that, back when the swine flu coverage first started all those months ago, wasn't the conservative line that the administration was exaggerating the threat to distract public attention from the economy and other problems? And now we're supposed to believe that they didn't take the threat seriously enough? God, these people piss me off.

BrklynLibrul your so full of shit. I live in Ohio and I can access bible length reams of information on vaccine distribution in New York. The bottom line is there isn't enough available yet 5to get it out to the general public in any significant quantities.Maybe you haven't been paying attention. Excuse me you haven't been paying attention. The distribution of vaccine for swine flu hae been bottlenecked by the inability of the PRIVATE manufactures inability to deliver what they promised in the time span they promised. Here's a word you'll understand being from Brooklyn. God your a shmuck.

Wow, Gandalf, how do you really feel? And who knew a dude with a modem in Ohio could know more than the legions of parents who spend hours talking to each other about the lack of clear information regarding vaccine?

P.S. Next time, run your posts through the spelling and grammar checks.

I'm so sorry about the spelling errors Brklyn. I sometimes get so carried away with responding to outright stupidity and bull that I sometimes just let fling. Oh by the way are you an english teacher as well as a a world class idiot.

And who was it that refused to move forward on the confirmation of Obama's Surgeon General pick?

Oddly, the thing I remember most when H1N1 came around was the Republicans thought the Obama Administration was overblowing the situation, that they (Repubs.) weren't going to take any vaccine made in such a rush and then of course the various conspiracy theories.
You can't have it both ways.

I do blame the feds, state and local governments for not overseeing distribution of the vaccine more effectively -- isn't that the whole point of a Department of HHS or a CDC?

That is, unfortunately, the weakness of our healthcare system. When your healthcare is distributed through a patchwork of private insurance companies and state and local programs, it's extremely difficult to coordinate the distribution, because Aetna will decide to deliver the vaccine to its clients one way and Cigna will decide to do it a totally different way and the CDC and HHS can't order them to do it the way they want because then SOCIALISM!!1!!!!1!

What we need is an actual public health system that would allow us to respond to emergencies like this, but unfortunately any kind of healthcare reform keeps getting blocked in Congress. Thank you, Joe Lieberman, for ensuring that deadly epidemics will continue to rock the country for years to come just so Tenet's CEO can continue to get paid millions of dollars every year.

In a perfect world, all the Republicans that pooh-poohed the strident tone of the Obama administration's flu preparations would have to acknowledge that the GOP obstructionists were wrong and Obama was right about the necessity of preparation. They can't call this a Katrina incident when their own words and actions prove differently.

IOW, what maggie and jh said.

Gandalf,

BrklynLibrul clearly stated they are the parent of a medically compromised child, hardly someone who should be considered 'general public' for a vaccine roll out.

BrklynLibrul's child has a greater chance of dying should they contract H1N1. Do you get that? I'm not sure you comprehend that. My guess is you're not a parent, or if you are, you're not a parent of a child with medical problems.

BrklynLibrul is right concerning the general confusion which is due in large part to administration officials mixed messages and overconfidence. Additionally, people in high risk groups like BL's child should be getting the vaccine first, but health workers everywhere are ignoring the CDC priority guidelines and giving out vaccines on a first come basis.

Honestly, that was such an over the top display of reflexive cheerleading and outright meanness, I am sincerely hoping that you've been sockpuppeted. I expect more compassion and understanding from you.

Comparisons with Katrina are invalid.

However, in 2004, Bush "relied on vaccine manufacturers" and one failed (in Britain IIRC). And there was a big delay, for which Bush was criticized. I thought the criticism was valid, and think a similar criticism of Obams is valid today.

Hey BrklynLibrul:

In case you missed it....it's called www.flu.gov

Let us know what information isn't found there.

Quiddity, in 2004, the Bush admin got its orders in late. This year, the Obama admin didn't; they really made this a priority from the beginning, rather than just claiming they had later.

For H1N1, there wasn't a vaccine that had been in the works for months that they could have gotten the order in for earlier. It had to be created on relatively short notice; the Obama administration made it a priority and put resources into it--over the objections of the other party. Producing two vaccines, seasonal and H1N1, divided the available resources including the available production facilities. Producing two vaccines--the only way it could be done, because H1N1 came along too late to be included in the seasonal vaccine--slowed things down for both vaccines.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Our distributions system is screwed up because it's fragmented, and no, there isn't really any system for giving out vaccines other than first-come first-served. But this screwed up system is not new this year, and it's the GOP that opposes fixing it in any meaningful way.

(I'm medically compromised myself, and getting the vaccine is a major issue for me. If I get either flu, at best I'll be in the hospital for days. So far, I've managed to get the seasonal vaccine, and am counting down the three weeks till when it will make sense for me to be tracking down an available H1N1 vaccine as quickly as possible.)

(Yes, yet another complication: you don't want to get them too close together, for best protection from both.)

Hey BrklynLibrul:

In case you missed it....it's called www.flu.gov

Let us know what information isn't found there.

What isn't there is whether or not there will still be a flu shot available when you get to the site of the clinic, if you are not able to be there when the doors open. This is a real problem, and I think some people, in responding to BrklynLibrul, are not taking into account the stress this plus either being medically compromised or having a medically compromised family member, creates.

Why did some healthy populations have access to the first wave of vaccines while other high-risk populations did not?

This is really a private insurance/state and local government issue, not a federal government issue, isn't it?

Doubtful in answer to yuor p[osts i am a parent. My daughter is as medically at risk from this flu as anyone. She has a condition called mitochondrial disorder. Suffice it to say I am very passionate about healthcare issues.
My daughter can die from a high fever so go fuck yourself. WE can't buy health insurance for her at any price. So I need to pay attention as I do to how the distribution of flu vaccines work. My diatribe against Brklyn was a response to the premise that they couldn,t get information. I find that impossible to believe.

My diatribe against Brklyn was a response to the premise that they couldn,t get information. I find that impossible to believe. -Gandalf

Perhaps you should dial down your diatribe a bit, especially given that you can understand BL's fear. Is being a complete jackass to BL helping anything? Or could you have pointed them in the direction of the information? I personally have gotten conflicting information from several sources; perhaps that's what BL was espousing - an inability to get consistently accurate information.

I just don't understand the unwarranted hostility, even as it continues now. I don't think the string of insults and belligerent suggestions are helping anyone, especially between you and BL who seem to have a rather obvious commonality.

I apologize for my assumption that you didn't have any children, but forgive me if I couldn't see how one parent could be so thoroughly mean to another when it was obviously concern for their child driving them.

I wish you both good health for your children, and hope that you can take a moment to take a deep breath and step back from the anger. We're all on the same side here, for the most part, and none of our experiences are the same. I think it would be helpful for you to realize that before leaping to insults.

I accept your apology Doubtful. Maybe you should get off your soap box and be a little less inclined to lecture people.
I also apologize to Brklyn. My pasions got the better of me. As stated by doubtful we have more in common than not.

Shorter wingnuts:

"Obama's not doing socialized medicine fast enough!!1"

Additionally, people in high risk groups like BL's child should be getting the vaccine first, but health workers everywhere are ignoring the CDC priority guidelines and giving out vaccines on a first come basis.

Exactly. The federal government can get the vaccine produced and send it to the providers, but the providers have no incentive to follow the CDC's guidelines and if it's a choice between getting paid to administer a vaccine to someone and not getting paid because they weren't eligible and you refused to give them the vaccine, for-profit health clinics will choose the first one every. single. time.

Again, this isn't a sign of something seriously wrong with the Obama administration, although they deserve a share of the blame. This is really a sign of how seriously dysfunctional our entire healthcare system is and how we deliver healthcare to our citizens. Conservatives can sneer all they want about how healthcare should be a privilege, not a right, but that's not going to prevent them or their children from catching H1N1 from someone who couldn't afford the vaccine because if you don't have a critical mass of people vaccinated, vaccines offer limited protection.

Again, this isn't a sign of something seriously wrong with the Obama administration, although they deserve a share of the blame.

For communication issues, perhaps. Not for the distribution fuckups being described here.

I understand that people are frustrated by a variety of factors, and that generalized parental worry makes it even harder to disentangle the various threads of this situation, but it does no good to mush the various things going wrong into a big ball and lay it at Obama's door. A little deep breathing followed by analysis of who's responsible for what actions all along the line will help reveal where the respective problems can and should be solved.

I've been away from my desk and just now caught up on this thread. Again, I'm not blaming the administration for the delays in vaccine production; I strongly feel, however, that as the dynamic shifted they could have been more proactive in communicating directly to high-risk groups about what to do and how to do it. My son is monitored by the best pediatric specialists in the New York area, and none have a clue about how to secure a vaccine for him. (Coincidentally, Gandalf, his neurologist played a role in the discovery of mitochondrial diseases.) The local families affected by this disease are in the same boat, calling around and checking out the various governmental websites and not making much headway (and by local I mean the city, New Jersey, Long Island and Westchester county.) My son's nurses have heroically called around but to no avail. The visiting nurse agency who administers his seasonal flu shot, as well as vaccines for a wide range of home-bound patients, can't even predict when they'll know a date for vaccine delivery.

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. I'm not blaming Obama per se, but no one in either the private or public sphere seems to be owning responsibility for the confusion. Here's hoping the vaccines show up soon.

My son is monitored by the best pediatric specialists in the New York area, and none have a clue about how to secure a vaccine for him.

Again, that seems to be more a manifestation of our effed-up delivery system for healthcare than a federal policy that the Obama administration created or continued. If your son's doctors can't even get direction from the health departments in the areas that have already been hardest hit by the virus, that's a serious breakdown on the state level that I'm not sure the federal government can do a whole lot about.

Except Tom Frieden, of course, was the point person in New York when the virus first hit in the spring. He now runs the CDC.

Except Tom Frieden, of course, was the point person in New York when the virus first hit in the spring. He now runs the CDC.

The point person for the city of New York, not the state of New York. How much control does the Commissioner of the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene have over the statewide distribution of vaccines?

Again, I'm not telling you that you shouldn't be angry and frustrated. I would be, too, if I were in your position. I just think you're getting angry at the wrong person. Shouldn't you be calling David Paterson's office every day and not the White House if the problem is that no doctors in New York state know how to get the vaccine?

BrklynLibrul, according to the CDC, over 500,000 doses of the H1N1 vaccine have been delivered to New York City. The state of New York has received 560,200. The state of New Jersey has received 597,200. So why can't your doctors find any of them? Have they been snapped up by for-profit clinics? How has the state health department been coordinating the delivery of vaccines? Are some health insurance companies getting more than others?

Again, I'm not saying there's not a problem. I am saying that the problem seems to be more local than you seem to think.

I'm a little scared of it myself.

Bush had about 300 years to prepare for Katina. The first French settlement flooded its first year, and second and third despite building and lengthening levees.

Preparing a flu vaccine begins a year before it becomes avilable. A new strain has to be identified, viruses isolated and cultured and processed for use. This is a very lengthy, high tech and expensive process.

A year ago Bush was in the WH so the preperation for the "distrubution" of this year's vaccine was done on his watch.
Yet another failure of the Bush administration, and more lives lost pointlessly.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1676296/
The web site seems to show h1n1 waterborne in the Arctic. There is still time to let the Coast Guard know what you think about pathogens and virus being moved around the world in the ballast system of ships as the glaciers melt and new shipping lanes are opened in the Arctic.