November 7, 2009
REFORM DEBATE OPEN THREAD.... We're still in for a pretty interesting night on the House floor. Fairly soon, we'll get a vote on the Stupak abortion-related amendment, a vote on the Republican "alternative," and, of course, a vote on reform legislation itself.
As of about an hour ago, Speaker Pelosi and the Democratic leadership were confident that they have the votes necessary to pass the bill. "We have the votes," a senior Democratic aide said.
The House Republican whip operation claims to have 34 Dems in opposition, but a) their count isn't entirely reliable; and b) 34 isn't enough to defeat the bill.
The final hours leading up to a major vote like this one are often the most contentious, and unfortunately, the most unpredictable. I thought I'd put up this open thread for those waiting up for the final tally. And you can watch the proceedings with the video below.
—Steve Benen 10:00 PM
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I'm on the edge of my seat. This moment will be historical whichever way it runs and will define the context of politics for a long time to come.
Posted by: Dean on November 7, 2009 at 10:07 PM | PERMALINK
My stomach is in knots. Can't wait for this to be over.
Posted by: Ladyhawke on November 7, 2009 at 10:08 PM | PERMALINK
I heard an interesting comment on C-Span that many Republicans are thinking of voting "present" on the Stupak amendment, with the thinking that this will make the amendment FAIL, making voting on the bill itself less attractive to some Blue Dogs.
I am wondering if this might not backfire on them. I sure as hell hope so.
Posted by: g on November 7, 2009 at 10:12 PM | PERMALINK
I hope Stupak gets run over by a truck on his way home tonight. The world would be a much, much better place without him in it.
Posted by: neff on November 7, 2009 at 10:16 PM | PERMALINK
Stupak passes. not even close. what a cluster fuck this is. how much has to be compromised to move anything forward in this country?
If Pelosi doesnt pass this tonite, the Dems are done in 2010. In both houses. They've done nothing at all in Congress this year.
Posted by: glutz78 on November 7, 2009 at 10:18 PM | PERMALINK
Pelosi is human garbage for letting Stupak's amendment even come up for a vote. She should be primaried next year.
Posted by: neff on November 7, 2009 at 10:21 PM | PERMALINK
We can only hope it is dropped during House/Senate reconcillation of the two bills. This was a bullshit vote!
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 10:24 PM | PERMALINK
Stupak passed. So much for government getting between you and your doctor.
Atrios' quote is priceless:
"Stupak (n) - The sepsis commonly experienced after unsafe back alley abortions"
Posted by: Brian Link on November 7, 2009 at 10:24 PM | PERMALINK
god damn every single one of them who just betrayed the women of this country and introduced one of the ugliest and most reprehensible denials of human rights there is -- care and control of their own bodies -- all for narrow-minded intolerant religiosity and, of course, corporate profits.
Posted by: neill on November 7, 2009 at 10:25 PM | PERMALINK
Thank you, neill. This is sickening.
Posted by: MissMudd on November 7, 2009 at 10:28 PM | PERMALINK
Is there anyone I can support for a primary challenge to Pelosi? She doesn't deserve to be speaker if she allowed the subhuman vermin known as Bart Stupak to get his misogynistic thuggery into the bill.
Posted by: neff on November 7, 2009 at 10:31 PM | PERMALINK
Honestly, who gives a shit about a bunch of women. Whores who get pregnant deserve the poverty they will get by forcing them to have a baby they can't afford. Of course, once those babies are born, sorry, you're on your own.
How 50s. Who cares that abortion is legal. There should be some lawsuits over that should it remain in the final bill.
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 10:34 PM | PERMALINK
I realize that this had to pass to get the overall healthcare bill passed later tonight, but it doesn't make it any better.
AmericaBlog is reporting there are 218 votes to pass the bill later tonight.
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 10:39 PM | PERMALINK
That sucks. The country would be better off without this bill now that Stupak's amendment is in it.
Posted by: neff on November 7, 2009 at 10:40 PM | PERMALINK
Neff, that's not true. The House and Senate have to come together once both are passed. It's not over yet!
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 10:45 PM | PERMALINK
I thought the Capps Amendment was the compromise here. But, like the selfish bastards Blue Dogs and their ilk are, not enough. We want all the ice cream or we won't support you! Wah!
Posted by: Joe on November 7, 2009 at 10:47 PM | PERMALINK
The Stupak stuff is going to survive the conference committee, the consumer protection parts of the bill are going to be weaseled around instantaneously, and in the long term the one lasting legacy of Obama's one-term administration will be effectively outlawing abortion again. Way to go, Hopey.
Posted by: neff on November 7, 2009 at 10:50 PM | PERMALINK
The betrayal of women by the Democratic Party will not be forgotten because of a 'health care' bill victory.
The stupidity of this vote -- of allowing this amendment to be included in the 'health care' reform bill is unbelievable...
What the national Dims have just done is nationalize the failed Deeds campaign strategy in Virginia-- only overwhelmingly and as an ugly sudden, astonishing betrayal, and it will be a serious serious problem for a long time.
Posted by: neill on November 7, 2009 at 10:52 PM | PERMALINK
The absurdity is that there is no exception under the Hyde Amendment, the model here, for health. It's life or rape/incest. This is a HEALTH BILL.
"These cases involve a special exclusion of women who, by definition, are confronted with a choice between two serious harms: serious health damage to themselves on the one hand and abortion on the other."
Justice Stevens, Harris v. McRae (dissenting opinion)
Posted by: Joe on November 7, 2009 at 11:03 PM | PERMALINK
213 with 9 not yet voted. Argh!
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 11:04 PM | PERMALINK
218! Let's see what happens in committee!!
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 11:06 PM | PERMALINK
Without that abortion abomination, the fucking blue dogs wouldn't have voted for HC reform. It had to be voted on. It's a start!
Holy shit! A gooper voted yea! 219 now.
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 11:09 PM | PERMALINK
230 to 215 with Gao (LA) being the only gooper to vote yea.
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 11:11 PM | PERMALINK
Cao not Gao. Sorry.
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 11:12 PM | PERMALINK
the Hopester got his 'health care' bill over the bodies of the poor women of america...sleep well tonight, mr. president.
Posted by: neill on November 7, 2009 at 11:13 PM | PERMALINK
Rep Cao of LA votes yes, doing what he said he might. Good for him. Of course, his district is largely Democratic, he replaced Rep Bribe Money in the Freezer.
Lots of cheers in the house tonight!
Posted by: Hannah on November 7, 2009 at 11:13 PM | PERMALINK
I'm really glad it passed. Now let's remove Stupak's amendment as soon as possible.
Posted by: stefano on November 7, 2009 at 11:14 PM | PERMALINK
I suppose with Rep Cao's vote, it is officially bipartisan??
He'll probably become a Democrat in a few days!
Posted by: ga73 on November 7, 2009 at 11:16 PM | PERMALINK
And I refuse to give up HOPE that this will be fixed. How many said we wouldn't get this far? This has been and will continue to be an uphill battle but it is not over!
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 11:16 PM | PERMALINK
This is about as mean and ugly as it gets.
Posted by: neill on November 7, 2009 at 11:19 PM | PERMALINK
How many Dems bailed even after they were given the Stupid, er, Stupak amendment? Anyone have the crossover count yet?
Posted by: zeitgeist on November 7, 2009 at 11:19 PM | PERMALINK
42 "No Votes"?? WTF? Am I reading this right?
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 11:19 PM | PERMALINK
Washington Post reports: BILL PASSES! 219 YAY VOTES!!!
Posted by: shawn on November 7, 2009 at 11:20 PM | PERMALINK
Nevermind...different bill.
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 11:21 PM | PERMALINK
Even though lot of this bill isn't what I had hoped it would be, especially a certain amendment, the history of this moment gives me pause.
We're only here because of our hard work.
Posted by: doubtful on November 7, 2009 at 11:22 PM | PERMALINK
A sad day for all freedom-loving Americans.
Posted by: Al on November 7, 2009 at 11:22 PM | PERMALINK
Yeah, Al. We all want the freedom to go bankrupt and be recissioned.
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 11:25 PM | PERMALINK
Just posted on Reuters:
U.S. House approves sweeping healthcare overhaul
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. House of Representatives approved a sweeping healthcare overhaul on Saturday, backing the biggest health policy changes in four decades and handing President Barack Obama a crucial victory.
On a narrow 220-215 vote, the House endorsed a bill that would expand coverage to millions of the uninsured and bar insurance practices such as refusing to cover people with pre-existing conditions.
The battle over Obama's top domestic priority now moves to the U.S. Senate, which is working on its own version. It has stalled there for weeks as Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid searches for an approach that can win the 60 votes he needs.
Posted by: Michael W on November 7, 2009 at 11:26 PM | PERMALINK
We need to get a clip of that "herding cats" commercial they ran on the Superbowl a couple of years ago. Pelosi apparently can do the job better than the insurance company that ran it.
Also, she should be be handing out gifts of authentic San Francisco kim-chi to the most obnoxious of the Republicans . . . rotten fish, you know.
Posted by: Midland on November 7, 2009 at 11:26 PM | PERMALINK
Al,
With all due respect, go fuck yourself. If this causes any medical problems, wait a couple of years and buy into the public option.
Thanks for what I hope will be your strenuous efforts fulfilling my suggestion. Yes, you can!
Posted by: manfred on November 7, 2009 at 11:29 PM | PERMALINK
C&L and FDL are saying Stupak will be stripped in committee. And expect primary challenges to those who voted nay. Good to both!
Posted by: MsJoanne on November 7, 2009 at 11:32 PM | PERMALINK
I'm not trying to be mean or dismissive but the Stupak amendment is really a small bone to throw the GOP's direction in order to get to this historic moment. It excludes rape, incest, and the mothers health, that's good enough for me. Now, if it paved the way to try and take away a womens right to choose, I would have a huge problem with it. I'm not gonna bitch too much about Nancy and Co, they got something done I never thought they could.
Posted by: Eric on November 8, 2009 at 12:12 AM | PERMALINK
Rome wasn't built in a day, Rome wasn't built in a day... Nor did Social Security and Medicare spring, fully grown, out of Athena's head...
Many of us here will never see the full bloom of this, but some of you youngsters may live long enough. At least and at last, we've laid down the first foundational corner stone. Though, like in the medieval times, it seems the structure needed a human sacrifice (the Stupid amendment)
Posted by: exlibra on November 8, 2009 at 12:21 AM | PERMALINK
Bleh, @ 12:21. Not from Athena's head, but like Athena from Zeus' head. I'm sure y'all knew what I meant, but I felt the need to cover my butt anyway.
To y'all's health!
Posted by: exlibra on November 8, 2009 at 12:26 AM | PERMALINK
Ok. Time to get even. From now on. Strip ever F***ing earmark, subsidy, and any other discretionary fund, every goddamn cent of federal funding that isn't formula driven, out of the MI 1st. Reduce funding for Lake Superior coast guard crap; ice breakers, NPS funding for their crappy parks, prisons, every goddamn thing that is strip-able, do it.
Don't get mad. Get even.
Posted by: bigwisc on November 8, 2009 at 12:38 AM | PERMALINK
I'm mad as hell over Stupak and yes I'm a woman...one more time they throw women under the bus to pretend to be patriots...but you know what? They passed HEALTH CARE in a house in Congress...this is amazing. Right now abortion is the law of the land. Let them pass this thing and women will RAISE UP and kick 'em in the balls...it's a beautiful thing. Honest to god, we have to start somewhere...but yes, we will get even.
Posted by: SYSPROG on November 8, 2009 at 1:43 AM | PERMALINK
Nights like this are when I miss Hilzoy the most.
Posted by: about time on November 8, 2009 at 1:54 AM | PERMALINK
al is a fake troll
Posted by: mudwall jackson on November 8, 2009 at 3:15 AM | PERMALINK
still a lot of work to be done but it is a great moment
Posted by: mudwall jackson on November 8, 2009 at 3:17 AM | PERMALINK
Does Al live under a fake bridge?
Posted by: Sister A on November 8, 2009 at 4:10 AM | PERMALINK
True to form the repugs have behaved like a bunch of ignorant thugs through the whole process, they have bullied, lied, name called and even called for violence, can they ever be a political party to be taken seriously again. While Americans are dying and filing bankruptcy they just take the money from their corporate masters and to heck with the people. I know by now they are going after the one repub that voted for this bill, I think the democrats will be glad to take him, this is the man that Boehner said was the future of the republican party!
Posted by: JS on November 8, 2009 at 7:53 AM | PERMALINK
Eric, it does NOT cover "the mothers health" ... the girl or woman has to have a life threatening condition. Any number of health related abortions do not threaten life. For instance, some have an abortion because the alternative is not having any more children because childbirth will threaten their ability in that department. Put aside that if someone has a severely deformed fetus, even on that will not survive childbirth, not covered.
But, since it can legally be rape, if a 16 year old gets pregnant with a twenty year old, it might be covered.
Posted by: Joe on November 8, 2009 at 9:46 AM | PERMALINK