Much as I hate Tom Tancredo, something about Markos' comment rubbed me the wrong way. Anyone else?

"Everyone caught Markos driving Tom Tancredo from the air on Friday, right?"

I suppose that Markos could have just said something like "Don't talk about Veterans Issues as if you know anything you chicken hawk" but he did a pretty good job.

I also caught Olbermann ragging on Tancredo later on in the evening.

Michelle Bachmann: Proof that God has a sense of humor. . .

I take back what I said about how Michelle Bachmann really needs to get lei'd.

Markos missed a great opportunity to talk about the VA having high customer satisfaction ratings that would be even better if Republicans weren't constantly voting to underfund veterans health care. Instead he went for the cheap shot. Worst performance I have seen from him.

Does anyone know what happened to the Saturday tea party "press conference" that was supposed to follow the Bachman-inspired protest?
I think Rep. Peter King invited those to return on Saturday but haven't heard anything about the turnout.

Cazart

Tancreda got what he had coming. Chickenhawk assholes who ducked their obligations to serve with Chickenshit deferments don't get to talk like they represent the military to guys who actually served.

I don't recall Tancredo being so indignant when Bush tacitly sanctioned the the swiftboating of Kerry.

Like many Republicans, Tancredo is a bully who's accustomed to getting demanded apologies from weak-willed Democrats, and loud-talking bullshit talking points without rebuttal.

This time, Tancredo crossed the wrong MoFo, and got his head handed to him.

Other dems should take a lesson.

cazart -

I thought Markos was a touch too snarky. He could have said, "I'm a veteran, and I know you're not," without having to vocalize Tancredo's mental health issue.

I don't think Markos was "vocalizing" Tancredo's "mental health issue" so much as he was calling him a chickenhawk, or alluding to possible draft dodging.

The time for comity is over, these guys have to have their noses rubbed in their own excrement at every opportunity afforded.

Markos and Barney Frank are my two favorite Democrats this week. Bachmann is an ass and Tancredo is a hateful coward -- both deserve nothing more than contempt.

...right-wing voices are using racist language...

Totally understandable from the right but so incredibly sad as a nation bent on never growing up. Will this never end?

The public option....not matter how weak...is THE ONLY way so far to get government involvement in the HC ins industry. A foot in the door which can always be expanded later. Conservatives are doing everything to block it for that very reason...it opens that door to single payer....BUT...if the HC bill goes down in flames in the senate...THEN...senate dems can introduce Medicare for all through the reconciliation process since it is a budgetary program and reconciliation is used only for budgetary programs...so Medicare for all can be passed with a 51 vote majority.

This is Thom Hartman's idea but how do we get it into the ears of all dem senators...because it can also be used as a bargaining tool.

While we're being polite and observing rules of decorum Republicans are telling our Senators to go Cheney themselves, yelling "You lie!" during joint sessions, and shouting down female, not male, members of our caucus.

Fuck snark! The way to counter a bully is punch the bastard in the nose, and watch them turn tail and run, just like Tancredo did.

Bonkers Bachmann wouldn't have been so eager to wear the lei on the floor of the House if she knew that Hawaii has long had an employer mandate healthcare system that covers 97% of it's citizenry, which costs less per person than any of the other 49 states. Hawaii picked up the ball and ran with many of the healthcare ideas the Clinton's had proposed 15 years ago, like an employer mandate, insurance pools, and other insurance reforms.

Without the corporate all expenses paid bus trips to the Capitol for these tea baggers...the crowd would have been quite small. The buses accounted for about 3,000 people.

Hell, if 40-60 big buses with organizers offering free all expenses paid trips to the Capitol one could get a full crowd to appear for almost any issue.

What a joke to claim these astro turf groups are grass roots when they are only there because they were paid for and would not have shown up on their own.

Tea baggers is a term for hypocrisy based on what these people oppose since original tea party was against a corporation getting special privileges from a government. A more appropriate term for them would be "the Stupids" because what they all have in common is they are all badly misinformed (see Brad blog)and 'willfully' stay misinformed.

Ditto on George Miller. He's my Rep. here in CA. And he doesn't get enough credit. Thanks for giving him props.

Markos was right: you have to go for the jugular with scum. Re Tancredo's mental health issues, uh, don't you know they were caused by protests against the Vietnam War by traitors like Kerry, etc, etc. I mean, that's what drove Rove, Bush and co to get deferments. Tancredo is a scumbag and should be treated as a scumbag. The Dems need more, more people like Markos to go on the attack. The public will love it.

Markos missed a great opportunity to talk about the VA having high customer satisfaction ratings that would be even better if Republicans weren't constantly voting to underfund veterans health care.

Er, he did talk about exactly that, after leading off with the smackdown of Tancredo presuming to speak for veterans.

I watched twice and never heard any of that due to the confusion and disruption going on. I will watch again to see what he said.

Bullies like Tancredo deserved this long ago. Folks like Marcos and Alan Grayson are finally showing Democrats how to handle bullies.

OK redshift, just watched a third time and it was worse than remembered. Markos never disputed that the VA was lousy and instead blamed it on poor funding.

In difficult times, community college often makes sense.

More like, it's the only fucking option other than the Army available to graduates whose mommies and daddies don't work for Goldman.

* Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) reflected on some of the right-wing protestors he encountered late last week: "Some of the people [at the rally] that wanted to engage me in conversation appeared to have been the losers in the 'Are you smarter than Michele Bachmann contest?'."

Sounds to me like Barney Frank and Alan Greyson are playing tennis (or is it ping-pong?) with Republicans as a ball. Smack, smack. I love that sound :)

President Obama quietly spent a couple of hours on Friday visiting with wounded soldiers and family members at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, and also awarded two Purple Hearts. The media wasn't invited

Tschhh. Just like a closet communist to draw the curtains over his activities like that. Know who else visited the troops without the press? Hitler.

"Three American hikers who were arrested in Iran this summer after straying across its border with Iraq have been accused of spying..."

Good. Maybe next time they'll think twice about sneaking into hostile nations like they're Indiana Jones or some shit.

I've got to vehemently disagree with those criticizing Markos -- it's time for us to collectively grow a set and stomp these motherfuckers into the ground. No quarter.

I think the substance of what he said was pretty good too. But driving Tancredo off the show was golden.

Re: Kos vs. Tancredo, yeah, maybe it was sort of a cheap shot to reference the reason for the 1-Y deferment (which is public), but 1. Tancredo has built his entire political career taking disgusting cheap shots at immigrants and non-WASP Americans, so he can sit back down with a big cup of STFU if he's offended that Markos hurt his pwecious widdle feewings. 2. He was completely full of shit on the veteran complaints about the VA, and Markos was fully within his rights as a veteran to challenge his position in the debate. The plural of anecdote isn't data and all the actual data that the VA and other pollsters have collected show that the VA is in fact one of the best health care providers in the country in terms of both outcomes and patient satisfaction. Tancredo was simply being a dishonest jackass and Markos threw some of the jackassery back at him, but unfortunately didn't actually get a chance to make a fact-based point. Not that cable news viewers actually care about the difference.

So Obama made a video appearance at the festivities in Berlin? Interesting, because Douthat sneered in his column today that Obama somehow couldn't work Berlin into his schedule. Okay, right-wing charges that Obama was grandstanding because he's a narcissist in 5 -- 4 -- 3 --

In difficult times, community college often makes sense.

For "their kids" but not for "our kids."

Steve: "Everyone caught Markos driving Tom Tancredo from the air on Friday, right?"

No. Frankly, why would I want to waste my time watching a rectal cavity like Markos Moulitas and an anal orifice like Tom Tancredo call each other an asshole?

Joe Friday: "Hawaii picked up the ball and ran with many of the healthcare ideas the Clinton's had proposed 15 years ago, like an employer mandate, insurance pools, and other insurance reforms."

Actually, many of the proposed Clinton health reforms were based in large part what had already been accomplished out here in the islands back in the mid-1970s, and not vice versa. And while we don't enjoy 97% coverage, we've been well over 90% for quite a while.

"Some of the people [at the rally] that wanted to engage me in conversation appeared to have been the losers in the 'Are you smarter than Michele Bachmann contest?'

Whack!

Are you folks just now learning that Markos is a jerk, whose favorite way to put-down a man is to refer to him with a crass word for a female body part?

The guy is a former Republican, so you should expect nothing less.

"Michele Bachmann inexplicably wore a lei during the debate on health care reform:"

(enters "Michele Bachmann lei" into google)

Bachmann’s comments:

The American people overwhelmingly reject the government takeover of our health care. Last Friday a couple from Hawaii decided the time was so short they needed to get on a plane, come to Washington, to beg their representative to vote no — from Hawaii. What sacrifices freedom-loving Americans are making to get their government’s attention. And how big our government has gotten. They brought me this beautiful, precious lei and I’m reminded that the one who created this lei also created our freedom.

There, that wasn't so hard was it?

God this site is moronic.

When you go to the George Miller video, read some of the comments below it. It makes you shudder and despair for the future of our country that minds (?) like those are so common.

As for the business about Tancredo, there is something to be said for being nice to jerks, but then again there is also something to be said about paybacks. You need both people, ones like Obama who are above the fray and others like Markos who give as good as they get. It is also nice to have people like Mr. Frank who has such a way with words that sting without being nasty. Remember the one about talking to a table? That is as good as the loser in a Bachmann dumb contest. The gentleman from Florida is also in that mold.

They brought me this beautiful, precious lei and I’m reminded that the one who created this lei also created our freedom.

If they're from Hawaii, Bachmann's not their representative. And if they can just jump on a plane to DC on a lark to oppose health care reform, I can bet you they're not among the poor, uninsured or sick people the reform bill will help. So Bachmann gets a nice lei from a pair of rich Republican donors from Hawaii and uses it to make a pointless speech about how getting sick and dying because you can't afford a doctor is a gift from God. This is the kind of shit the Third Commandment condemns. I thought these people knew their Bible.

Indeed, I caught the Markos/Tom moment, and I agree with Cazart and others who felt uncomfortable with it. Markos was right on the substance, and it no doubt gives some of us pleasure to see a mean-spirited right-winger get a taste of his own poison. Even so, I must disagree with those who argue that in order to gain any social progress, we have to become crappy people. There is no basis for such a claim; it's just a cover for the philosophy that "going for personal attacks is fine as long as it's my guy doing it."

Not only is it childish, it defeats the argument. If Tancredo walks, he is no longer there to offer arguments so Moulitsas can show, with reason and facts, why Tancredo is wrong.

Tancredo was trying to speak for veterans, and I'm glad Moulitsas brought in his own perspective as, ahem, an actual veteran. But the reference to Tancredo's mental health crossed a line into, well, what the right likes to do.

Let's not confuse being strong with being an asshole.

I don't think Markos was "vocalizing" Tancredo's "mental health issue" so much as he was calling him a chickenhawk, or alluding to possible draft dodging.

Markos and Barney Frank are my two favorite Democrats this week. Bachmann is an ass and Tancredo is a hateful coward -- both deserve nothing more than contempt

It was not about Markos trashing Tancredo, it was that he let stand the false premise that government health care is bad. Watch it again: Tancredo trashes Medicare, no one disputes that, Gregory says VA is government health care, Tancredo says it sucks and Markos says it is because Republicans underfund it. The segment ends with the viewer thinking Medicare and the VA do a poor job. And Markos has just ridiculed someone for having depression. Terrible waste of tv face time.

Although the fact that Markos tossed the zinger (at one who so richly deserves it I might add) might not have spoken well for his ability to forward the argument that was needed at that time...I completely understand with all the crapola being flung about by Repuglican wingnuts on a DAILY BASIS it becomes difficult to retain one's liberal philosophies for thoughtful gathering of information and critical thinking before solidifying positions! I would have found it hard to resist myself...AND, frankly it is this tendency to be FAIR and THOUGHTFUL and, basically KIND that eventually does Liberals/lefties in...we actually try to be inclusive and reflective while those in the opposition are just "knee-jerk" reactors...

Bravo to Markos and Grayson. The right has gotten away with this type of shit for far too long and no one ever sticks up to them. No wonder people think that the Dems are pussies. Hit em hard and often I say, especially when they are spewing nonsense.

Much as I hate Tom Tancredo, something about Markos' comment rubbed me the wrong way. Anyone else?

Yes.

Sure, those who supported the war and used various dodges to avoid it deserve the insult. But not if they had legitimate medical problems, as Tancredo seems to have had.

If Markos' truly doesn't understand that depression is a serious disease he needs to educate himself, and not act like an ignorant jerk by sneering at it. I don't like Tancredo, but frankly, he did the right thing.

I thought Markos was a touch too snarky. He could have said, "I'm a veteran, and I know you're not," without having to vocalize Tancredo's mental health issue.

I am sorry but as a unwilling draftee, who once drafted fought for our country I could not agree more with what Markos said -- and the way he said it.

I doubt and have every reason to doubt Tancredo was doing anything but dodging. I always resented Clintons dodge, but at least he got it without being wealthy or connected.

This is the post "Swift Boat" world.

Moreover if you are in today's military you can NOT get out of deployment to Afghanistan or Iraq on a private physician's diagnosis of depression (and Trancredo used a private physician).

And WTF does Tancredo know about the VA!!!??! Veterans and veterans groups do complain...but why? Because it is underfunded and orphaned by Tancredo's party.

Tancredo's appearance and comments were a sublime constellation of irony, if I were there I would have said much worse than Markos. What is wrong with shaming people who deserve it and who place themselves in a position to lecture others?

To Tulse: Nothing wrong with shaming people for hypocrisy, I'm all for that. We can do that without being indecent.

To TH: Very good point.

To others: Anyone picking up on the violent language (some of it even suggestive of rape) employed to defend killer personal attacks as a legitimate mode of political discourse? It's time to "stick it to them," so we don't look like "pussies," and even more overtly violent analogies.

It's a telling sign. Politics can bring out the best in us -- but some let it bring out the worst.

@Algernon,
But it is not the worst of us to attack a demagogue.

Violent language suggestive of rape by Markos or anyone here? What are you going on about?

Whjo here used the word pussies and in what context, someone was paraphriasing a republican attiue.

You are leaping to outrageously erroneous conclusions and outrageous accusations based on misquoting and characterizing what people wrote.

Algernon, Your comments smack of McCarthy tactics.

Please tell us more about the rape fantasies you are projecting onto others comments. I see nothing about rape here!

Tulse, if you want to engage me in this discussion, you need to revise your tone.

Algernon, you are the one who ridiculously mischaracterized what people had written. If you are apologizing I accept.

If you are not you are -- quite ironically -- calling the kettle black, and I suspect you know that. You are making

Exactly where is this "violence" "Killer remarks" exhortation to "rape" in the above comments? hmmm?*

*The only places I see "killer personal attacks " is in your attacks your own omments!