Which brings me back to the same comment I made yesterday: Harry Reid will surely begin "negotiating" with Lieberman by giving up on the public option entirely--and then working out a "compromise" that not only prevents competition but also guarantees HUGE infusions of taxpayer cash into the insurance company coffers.

And Holy Joe will side the with Republicans anyway to filibuster his own compromise because Joe is with us on everything--provided "everything" is what the GOP is pushing for today.

"Work something out'????

How about booting LIEberman's sorry ass out of the Dems caucaus and stripping him of his committee chair and then tossing the chair at him as he leaves the room.

Now that would be something to work out on. Nauseating...

Steve Balmer Stevio ?

As always, "it's all about the Joe."

Reid could put an end to this grandstanding by announcing the decision to pass public option through the Senate via reconciliation. And then strip Lieberman of his chairmanship. Or vice-versa; I don't really care if Joe loses his gavel before or after.

Either that, or force the filibuster. Make them stay through the holidays. Make them hold the floor Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. At some point, it will peel off a few votes, because who among us believes that "principles" are really more important to Republicans (or Joe Lieberman) than leisure time?

How bizarre that Lieberman frames it solely by his feelings.

No evidence-based reasoning, no concern for his constituents.

Joe's sitting on the sidelines of his high school dance, and the public option is the girl he's turning down with, "sorry, I'm just don't feel like wiggling."

He either plays ball or he loses his committees. That simple.

If he is willing to give up is committees to insure his wife continues raking in ooodles from insurance company bribes, then make him an offer he can't refuse. Threaten to withhold money from Israel. He will wiggle a lot if Likud tells him it's necessary. Lieberman is perhaps the most odeous Senator in this generation. To think he was nominated to be VP.

By the way the level of corruption in Washington apparently rivels the corruption during the presidencies of General Grant and Warren Harding, except congress has made it mostly legal.

Worse, he's turning down the girl because he knows she won't dance with him.

aimai

"I don't feel like wiggling," he said.

In other words, "fuck you." It really is time to kick him to the curb. He needs to be stripped of his committee chairmanship the second he votes with the Republicans.

It's going to pass through reconciliation. I think Reid has known that all along and is just playing it cool.

But I do agree with other posters...force the filibuster and make them stay there through Thanksgiving and christmas.

Lieberman is gearing up to demagogue the Ft. Hood shootings. As Chair of the Homeland Security Committee, he's in a perfect position to do this. In the process he will cement his alliance with the Republican hawks and make himself invulnerable. He'll taunt the Democrats every chance he gets and dare them to try anything.

The guy's been toxic for years. He's done nothing but harm since the 2000 recount, probably since the Monica business. Both in himself and in the gutless way the Democrats have treated him he's a poster boy for Democratic worthlessness and corruption.

Nidal Malik Hasan will be a big story for months, and the Democrats will be wrong-footed by it. Every hysterical claim we've heard in the last 7 years will be amplified and broadcast. Other issues will be put in the shade.

This is not to say that I know what they should do.

Get back to me in six months. I'm a pessimist and always happy to be wrong. I still don't understand why Cheney didn't attack Iran sometime in 2008, though I suspect that the military resisted fiercely.

Everyone assumes that he cares about losing his committees. I'm not sure that he does.

It's always a crap shoot trying to figure out What Joe Wants (the man has several diagnosable pathologies going on) but right now he's acting like a guy who knows he can't be reelected (and he can't), has already unofficially started his lobbying career with insurance and pharma, and plans to spend the next three years doing as much damage as possible to the mean people who spurned him (which, of course, will simultaneously buck up his cred with his corporate masters). That he's throwing away the lives and well-being of millions is something he can't allow to get through his filter.

Reconciliation is a severely imperfect option for a number of reasons. But it may, with all its limitations, end up being what we have to do.

Zing, aimai.

Worst of all, he's turning down the girl because he's kept by rich old lady who would get jealous.

Of course Reid is going to say the two will "work something out". It's vague enough, and it's either that or admit he is a weak senate leader.

Over the summer we saw Reid's milquetoast calibre of backroom politics while the healthcare bill was dragged through the senate committee process, and now this.

He's trying to procedurally out-maneuver someone while the country's health costs soar over 16.5% of GDP. He should get his priorities straight, and use the leverage that a majority leader has with chairmanships or step down for someone else who can.

Kick his sorry ass out? Surely, you jest.

Because the Gentleman's Club AKA the Senate is ruled by comity.

comity |ˈkämitē|
noun ( pl. -ties)
1 courtesy and considerate behavior toward others.
2 an association of nations for their mutual benefit.

-and don't call me Shirley. . .

This is nuts. What if Harry Reid announced that Joe's stubborn 'no compromise' stance will force an alternative approach. Propose a new bill (Medicare U) that will allow the uninsured coverage via Medicare pending passage of an alternative national HCR bill. Maybe Medicare U can morph into Medicare E.

Joe Lieberman to the right of Olympia Snowe? That means he's a flaming liberal!

If you all want competition, I would say dump the public option. That won't get you competition. That will just drive health care into the arms of the government, which is never competitive. I mean, c'mon, look at the U.S. Postal Service!

It may be a shot in the dark, but they ought to implore Olympia Snowe to switch parties. Even if she's only a slight improvement over Lie-berman, if they bring her into the fold while extracting a promise to vote with the caucus on all procedural votes in exchange for retaining her seniority on committee assignments, then that crumbling sound you'll hear will be Holy Joe's leverage imploding. It would be a thing of beauty. If only Reid and Durbin had the stones to pull it off.

One word: reconciliation.

Ben Nelson has already said he won't vote for a bill with the public option or without the Stupak amendment. So it looks like it's going to have to be reconciliation anyway. But boy would it feel good to strip Lieberman of his committee chairmanship.

People keep repeating the dumb postal service joke. But the postal service is pretty good. Social Security is good. Medicare is good.

It's hard to argue with people whose whole stock of ideas is slogans they heard years ago.

Debbiesim:
"the government, which is never competitive. I mean, c'mon, look at the U.S. Postal Service!"

Yes, and when you do you'll see FedEx, UPS, DHL, and many other small and large delivery services.

Even when the government gives something away for free -- the weather reports, the feed from satellites -- many private companies charge for givibng us the data -- Weather Central, the Weather Channel, Weather bug -- and one of thos is probably on your computer, lower right.

Back to Joe Lieberman and a quote from 'the best 80-year old blogger no one reads,' morialekafa -- Google it, my record on HTML ain't great:

At the moment one of the grave threats emanating from that pompous body is coming from Joe Lieberman who says he will oppose any bill with a public option. This wouldn’t be quite so bad if Holy Joe didn’t insist his conscience will not allow him to do otherwise. From his behavior of the past few years I wasn’t aware he had a conscience, but if he does, it doesn’t seem to bother him that he and his wife have benefitted handsomely from the very interests that do not want to see a public option. I suppose this is just a coincidence. But if you think Lieberman is hypocritical about this he is not alone. Evan Bayh and his wife benefit even more from these predatory industries and Bayh, too, is threatening to vote against the public option, just another strange coincidence, no?

A few days ago I sent a postcard from PA to a small, remote town in Alaska, for 28 cents. Try that with FedX/UPS. . .

If the Democrats are serious, they will move toward reconciliation.

If Lieberman, Snowe, & Nelson ( sounds like a law firm ) want a nice pork project in their respective states, this is something we can talk about. But dilution of healthcare is off the table.

It is past time to wrap this up.

I think what Joe really wants is to be re-elected. Period. If Reid can guarantee him he'll have the resources (money, endorsements, pork) he needs to win re-election without health-insurer campaign money (and against an opponent who does get that money), he'll drop his opposition to public option in a heartbeat.

It's a little late for this, but another approach besides offering a public option would have been to heavily regulate the insurance companies. Make it illegal for them to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. Require that they be non-profit organizations. Eliminate (or greatly restrict) their ability to refuse to pay for treatments that are recommended by doctors.

This is the approach taken in places like Switzerland, and it seems to work. Perhaps Lieberman would have prefered that approach?

One word: reconciliation.
Posted by: Chris on November 11, 2009 at 10:01 AM

Right you tell Reid to get right on that, 2011, we will control both the house and the senate, and then we push for Obama and Biden's simultaneous ipeachment, Can you Say President Boehner, Good, I thought you could.....

Jesus Christ -- wake up, people. Lieberman and Nelson are Going. To. Filibuster. Any. Bill. Got it? This is not going to happen.

What a waste of time this has all been.

I think every time Lieberman's name is mentioned in the context of Health Care Reform, it should also be mentioned that Aetna and Cigna and headquartered in his state.

"Lieberman (I-Aetna/Cigna)" is also editorially acceptable.

Thomas F,

I don't understand your point. Are you saying that the Democrats' use of reconciliation will cost them control of the House and Senate? They may very well lose control of one or both, but not because of reconciliation.

F*** you, Joe.

beejeez, @10:33,

I disagree. I think shortstop (@9:14) is right - Lieberprick is feathering his bed for his post-Senatorial career. He'd never be reelected and I suspect he doesn't even want to try. I wouldn't be surprised if he actually quit before his term is over.

I repeat. Time to let Joe go.

Well, no, Thomas F. You see, there are a whole lot more people who want healthcare reform, including the public option, than don't, and they've grown tired of your guys' continual lying, obstructing and corporate ass-kissing. They know exactly whose side you're on.

Tell you what, though -- in addition to giving you the healthcare security you don't think you need, we'll also give you a free remedial English course for you to work on between your bouts of lurid fantasizing. Can't say fairer than that.

"...Lieberman and Nelson are Going. To. Filibuster. Any. Bill. "

As a constituent, I hope this is true. This bill is an abomination and deserves a quick death.

Time to move the New London sub base, I think. That'll get Holy Joe's attention.

Harry;
You need to get your lackeys into Joe's house in Aspen, in the downstairs study, in the wall, behind the Cezanne. There you will find the photos of you and that Page, and as far as we know, those are the only copies. Burn those, and you can do whatever you want to Lieberman without fear. But act fast.

Shortstop: your comment to Thomas F. is brilliant. Couldn't think of a better reply.

Joe Lieberman doesn't wiggle. Never has. No sir!
He slithers.

Joe needs to think about what's best for the American people, not his political capital. I mean look at how great these ideas are already working in the midwest! http://cli.gs/23yYaM/