At some point, you'd think the republicans would see that every word out of their mouth, every action, every thought, ends up being a disaster. You'd think.

"RedState wants an explanation of how this went unnoticed for 18 years."

Somebody should send 'em a mirror.

Poor Michael Steele is scrambling and backtracking yet again. Good thing he�s got a crackerjack coach:

http://bit.ly/3ppyiu

(satire)

Someone oughtt write a diary there explaining this, if they do diaries.

RNC employees will still be able to use their salary income to pay cash for abortions. So, it seems it would be best not to donate to them at all.

Another question is why does the RNC give its employees traditional health insurance. Don't they think that vouchers and savings accounts are the way to go?

"grave moral evil". Hypocritical C**ksuckers. Where was the moral outrage as countless service personnel and innocent civilians were killed in a war of choice ...oh I forgot they were born already..never mind.

Who will charge the RNC with aiding and abetting infanticide? The RNC has the blood of the unborn on its hands.

And the wingnut purity purge marches on.

Has anyone e-mailed Jon Stewart? You can bet Foxnews may be doing the same with their insurance and the many unions their employees belong to. How about it Steve?

It wasn't noticed because a majority of them don't truly give a rat's ass -- most of what they say is largely lip service to get money or votes. It's just another hypocrisy they were caught in.

In a neat way, this shows the complete devolution of the Republican Party. Half of them used to support choice 20 years ago.

The golden piss rule...

Do unto your fellow republicans as your fellow republicans would do unto others.

Since abortion seems to be the a fundamental issue that won't away in our lifetimes. And since it seems destined to be the main driver of the Culture War that is tearing America asunder...

Why should anyone object to it ripping apart the republican party too?

And the more I think about this, perhaps members of Congress are doing the same through the FEHBP. The possibilities are endless here and can take it to every employee who has health insurance coverage through an employer.

Where is the list of Republican who have had or paid for abortions over the past 18+ years? That list would basically end this discussion. Out them like gays have been outed. Photos of a late term abortion next to the picture of each such person. It doesn't even matter if they had a late term abortion. Name, relationship to RNC member, date, photo and RNC position at the time of the "procedure." What insurance company paid for the procedure? What hospital/clinic? Bury them in facts and see how they spin it.

What insurance company insures Redstate employees, or National Reviews, or the Weakly Standard?? Faux News ???

I wonder just how many RNC abortions were billed...

In the Republic spirit of being mean spirited, shouldn't they at least provide some documentation of how many times, and by who, used the abortion provision of their insurance. It's only fair after the demands they want to place on the rest of us.

is there some cliff to which we can direct these despairing wretches, so they might fling themselves off and end their misery and suffering at not having control of the bodies of the women of america?

Cognitive dissonance is a core republican skill

Benen: Either the RNC agrees with this assessment or it rejects the reasoning behind the Stupak measure. It's one or the other.

Steve, after all these years of analyzing republican logic do you really still believe it is one or the other?
I mean really... This is a party that thrives on the knife edge of cognitive dissonance.

Koreyel's simple proof of the above:

The republican party openly and sorely mistrusts big government...
Yet the "right to life" party trusts big government enough to allow it to administer capital punishment.

QED

Steve nailed the problem earlier when he pointed out that money is fungible. When you dictate that food stamps may not be used to purchase alcohol and tobacco, the cash that would otherwise buy bread can now be used to buy - alcohol and tobacco.

I suppose a radical solution might involve the creation of The Xtian Health Insurance Company (motto: we’re here when prayer fails). Not to piss on their parade, but consider this: every time an abortion is performed, it was paid for with a salary earned at some company. Was that company yours? Are you sure? Because if it was, then YOU ARE AIDING ABORTION!

But more important is the underlying logic. The new-and-improved RNC policy will insure its employees through Cigna, and Cigna will still pay for abortions, just not for RNC employees. In other words, RNC premiums will go to the company, and the company will then use its pool of money to pay for abortions. That's the "fix" RNC Chairman Michael Steele scrambled to make.

RedState and the Republican National Committee support the Stupak amendment, and according to its reasoning, the RNC will still be indirectly subsidizing abortions with its premiums.

OK, there are two different kinds of supposed cross-subsidization here. Let's try an analogy:

1) I'm morally opposed to cheese, so I give you the money to buy a hamburger, though I know you're going to buy a cheeseburger with it. It's hard to argue that I'm not helping you buy a cheeseburger, and thereby subsidizing cheese.

This is like paying only for the non-abortion-related part of a policy that covers abortions.

2) I'm morally opposed to cheese, so I give you the money for a hamburger on the condition that you buy a hamburger, not a cheeseburger. But the place you buy the hamburger at, also sells cheeseburgers.

This is like the argument that by paying for a policy that doesn't cover abortions, from a company that also sells policies that cover abortions, somehow subsidizes abortions.

I don't understand this argument in either case. One could say I'm condoning cheese, or abortions, by doing business with a place that sells cheeseburgers, or covers abortions, even though I don't help pay for a cheeseburger or a policy that covers abortions. But that seems to be it.

But the question I have is: exactly what in the Stupak amendment bars the second kind of subsidy? Because that would imply that if all U.S. health insurance companies participated in the exchanges, then under the Stupak amendment, NO domestic insurers would be allowed to offer policies covering abortion.

That's an interpretation that I haven't seen anyone else offer up, so I'm wondering about this.

Nope low-tech that is exactly where the logic goes. I offered it elsewhere just this morning, if commenting on a Ezra post equates to an "offer".

Under HR3962 every employer has five years to bring his plan coverage up to QHBP levels. A Qualified Health Benefits Plan is one that is eligible to participate in the Exchange and so must meet the full list of requirements laid out in the bill, which logically would include the restrictions laid out under Stupak. So even if companies establish two plans that are separate on paper, on within the exchange and one outside this particular requirement would seem to be binding on both.

If so your conclusion follows.

And it is not much of a stretch to extend that to a ban on any such companies offering even a totally separate abortion policy. AFter all corporate money is corporate money.

Well, if Redstate is in such a purge-y mood, how about they drum out any current employees who ever USED their insurance to get an abortion? And if FORMER employees ever used their insurance, how about their pensions get pulled, or some other financial penalty be applied? Certainly, they can't ever admit for having worked for the RNC.

I just checked the Blue Cross federal pla, the most popular among feds and they only cover abortion if the health of the mother would be in jeopardy if carreid full term. Incest and rape are other reasons. So if a husband and wife from Alabama get a divorce, do they still remain cousins and are abortions covered?

low-tech: I believe your point is that it is not possible to live in this society and not fund, in some way, some behavior, event, act, organization that performs or condones an undesireable act. When you exchange a dollar for a product or service, you immediately lose control of where that dollar goes. Even if the person/entity that received the dollar is 100% in agreement with your morals, ethics and principles, how they use that dollar is out of your control, forever. The military, with its Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy, funds gays and lesbians who Don't Tell. Funds the Taliban and insurgents through bribes paid to protect truck convoys. Funds drug use by paying salaries to soldiers who use illegal drugs. Funds adultery by paying soldiers, congresspeople, federal employees who commit adultery. The list is endless. Anyone who can create a system that prevents the use of money or any other resource for an undesireable act or behavior or product is the most brilliant person ever created. Even God cannot prevent sin. S/He/It can only forgive it.

Bruce, I don't see how that follows. Like you say, under HR3962 every employer has five years to bring his plan coverage up to QHBP levels. But such language generally means that the coverage has to be at least as generous as the minimal requirements applying to a QHPB; they can cover more stuff if they want to.

So absent very specific language in the Stupak Amendment that would require employers to bring their plans down to the QHPB levels in this one area, it just doesn't follow.

So: can you show me the language?

I appreciate the info, but getting the right worked up about abortion can only lead somewhere bad. All the zealots had no idea, and that was a good thing, now they know and will try, and possibly succeed, in getting Big Insurance to completely eliminate coverage of a legal medical procedure.

Unlike your average republican, pro-lifers aren't about posture, they are about action. All this country needs is pro-lifers waging war on insurance.

I would have been content with the RNC operating in hypocrisy. This is one of those 'careful what you wish for' stories.

Future Republican Talking Points, coming soon to a radio bloviator near you:

Obamacare forces everyone to buy insurance.

Insurance premiums go in a large pool of money that funds medical care, including abortions.

Therefore, Obama is not only condoning abortion, he's making it mandatory.

Let's be extra safe: Outlaw Insurance Companies!

I'm all for shining a light on hypocrisy and all, but has anyone stopped to think that there will be even more real women that won't have insurance for choices they make now? Daughters, spouses, nieces, whatever, of blowhard right-wingers and Republicans, who might not share the same views on abortion? Have mercy.

When you are a party of "family values" and you hire clerical assistence more for their "window dressing" values than their intelligence, you might need a "safe" way to "dispose" of the evidence of your carelessness. Paying for the procedure with cash is always a red flag, checks name names as do credit cards, hence "money laundering" through use of an insurance company is the ticket.

"But more important is the underlying logic."

Republicans don't do underlying logic.

It is a priori that members of the radical right will lie, that they will abuse logic, and that they will let emotion trump reason.

Why is this such a shock?

I'm no high-priced political consultant, but if it were me, I'd start a third party. You can't let them finesse this one. This is HUGE. Third party. Run Sarah Run.

This is hilarious on so many levels.

It's the first time I've ever seen conservatives demand accountability from other conservatives (fire the box checker!)

Second, it is inconceivable to them that the RNC plan covers abortions because RNC members want to be able to have fucking abortions for their daughters, wives, and secretaries.

Third, it really opens up an almost unbeatable charge of hypocrisy on many economic and social issues for the RNC. If the RNC believes in vouchers, why do they offer private insurance? If the RNC does not want abortions, why do they offer them? The RNC is the perfect laboratory for all those glibertarian ideas.

As long as were following logical progressions, purging infidels, and casting stones. Everyone who contributed to the RNC, or pays taxes, helped subsidize Vitter's hooker bills, and the bribes for Ensign's mistress.

RNC ain't the only one that's let the Trojan-covered horse past the gates:
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/13/cantor-gingrich-abortions/

so let me get this straight...

conservatives got screwed by trusting details to republicans?

you don't say