but but but it's not obama's fault if health care is not reformed by the so-called Health Care Reform Bill to be passed soon. It's the meanie Republicans.

As a republican, why would you believe that I should give a damn if a bunch of poor or working class peons die?

As a wealthy American, I understand that this is just a small price to pay for increasing the wealth of myself and other worthy Americans.

Our low information base will not care either, because we will make sure that our corporate media and our power hungry religious leaders keep them uninformed.

As a wealthy republican, I can assure you that providing health care to working peons is not on my list of priorities, especially when there is a chance that it would negatively impact my wealth.

These live saving measures are being opposed by the majority of the pro-life community. Why no one in the media is asking them to explain why they are so sensitive to potential lives and so indifferent to the lives of actual living persons?

My brother, who did not have insurance, recently died from the cancer that was not found before it was too late. The thought of taking a baseball bat to the head of that sanctimonious SOB keeps coming to mind when I see Joe's picture.

This is the sort of stuff where speaking in "stark moral terms" from the left is appropriate: smash-mouth progressivism.

Republicans are murderers because of inaction.
Dems are the Pro-Life party, as in we want people to live longer, better lives.

Scary brown people kill 3k Americans, and we suspend the constitution, spend trillions, kill tens of thousands.

But something to actually save lives? Har!

Your indignation is misplaced.

Obama has never said that he wants is a real Health Care Reform package. Whenever he has talked about it, he has talked more about the financial side - no effect on deficit yada yada yada. In summary he is more concerned about pleasing the Republicans than saving lives.

We voted for Obama.

He baited and switched.

First, we should be blamed for being so easily snookered.

And then Obama who snookered us.

Joe is an insignifacant man.
Obama made him significant with his pussyfooting.

So even Joe is Obama's fault.

As a Canadian, I would be grossed out to have to live in a world where fellow citizens around me were suffering needlessly.

As a conservative, I recognize that the liberal solution to a complex societal problem is the better than any conservative alternative.

I doubt very much that U.S. Republicans can look people in the eyes.

So what are you saying shmuckhead anon? we'd have been better off with McCain and Palin.

I think he's saying that Hopie is not who he pretended to be with all pretty talk last year about changing the world. Or as Pete Townshend said, Meet the New Boss. Same as the Old Boss. But hey, I'm just guessing.

Gandalf

Actually I am beginning to think we might have been better off, for McCain would not have had to placate the Republicans or Joe at every step of the way.

Nixon and China and all that.

Obama has retrospectively proved to be a bad choice. I do not think that whatever policy decisions that he has made so far are too different from GWB's and since McCain's would have been similar, I think that you Obamabots are exaggerating the importance of having elected Obama.

The GOP would dearly love for the health care reform debate to center around the congressional personalities and the policy abstractions. Talking about life and death infuriates them because it reminds people of the actual human costs of killing the bill and the enormous cynicism that has dominated the right wing through their obstructionist tactics. Their discomfort should not inhibit our discussion of the human costs of derailing (instead of debating and improving) health care.

Paging Dr. Grayson.

Point at the deaths resulting in inadequate health care and inadequate coverage. Don't let the financial agruments get a hearing. If this country can spend trillions on war, we certainly can spend a trillion on covering ALL Americans, documented of not, with adequate healthcare.

It is not like all of a sudden people are dying because the privatized health care system in this country is corrupt. the infantile american public may see it that way.

In our technological world, corporatized giganticism, etc., mass-murder is the underlying theme of every corrupt and 'conservative' decision by this government -- not just the wars both Dims and Repugnants run to kill Other peeps... they mass-murder the American peeps, too, every day...

"benign neglect" and corruption is as american as apple pie...

1. If thousands of uninsured people die,
2. and you oppose affordable coverage,
3. then you are a murderer.

The prosecution rests.

buddy66: That says it quite clearly. Too bad it is already off the table. See the next post from Steve B. Back to talking about reconciliation and strategy.
The bottom line is that this is murder and the Congress is complicit. No other argument is relevant.

I think the hard part is that if reform is pared back to incremental fragments, we're not saving all of those 150,000 lives — and it doesn't make such a great moral argument to say you must vote for this program that will let only 140,000 people die needlessly.

Amazing reading how people prefer to let others die because "it costs money to keep "them alive."
Talk about an American Holocaust, or can i use that word?

no lies are called on in the media.
no one calls anyone liars

Republicans, especially, are human profiteers on human misery.

greedy deathers these ilk.

Will it actually get more people covered or just get more people in debt and more imprisoned.

My friend has Medicare but lives below the poverty level. His cardiac cath was $11,000+ and his part of that was near $800. Paying for oxygen and monthly medical bills makes it impossible for him to make even a $10/mo pymnt on the cath procedure.

Get the point. If he needed a hip replacement etc. he would find it hard to survive owing everyone and not capable of paying...even with ins.. This bill must change that so Medicaid is not 30% of poverty level. Will it? The concerns of many is that throwing the rest of those who are forced to get private ins into the fire because it will save lives corresponds to refusing to stop funding the war because many would die if they didn't have enough bullets to protect themselves.

It's not a trade off when we are perfectly capable of doing both...stop funding the war and protecting the troops as we get them out of harm's way = providing health care to those who don't have it while ending the profiteering, pre-conditions, caps and rising costs for those who do have ins. I don't like being played one against the other. I don't like people saying "just accept it all it will save lives" as if that is the only way to save lives. Shooting Lieberman, Nelson and all senate republicans is another...that's 43 senators dead compared to 45,000 that will die this year if these senators don't change...yet no one is playing them off against each other...No one is screaming "we must kill senate republicans if we are to save lives"...because it is unnecessary...just like dicing the HC bill to save lives is unnecessary...we can still save lives without ruining this bill. How much does it take for you to say "No-way"...Stupak expanded, no regulations on private ins.,...Now that they know you'll do anything to save lives...what is there to stop them from adding anything they want if they can get Joe to agree with anyone item. Screw this bill and change the senate rules on opening next sesson and begin again. (Screw this "we can save many lives if you'll just surrender" logic. Somethings are worth dying for)

Echhooooooooooooooooo chamber!

Obama has failed Americans by putting politics over principle . Health care is a moral issue! Joe Lieberman is amoral. He has sold his soul to the demonic right wing!Americans continue to suffer for the 1% rich.