MoveOn has come out opposing HCR, giving hope DC could coalesce around it and pass it by Christmas.

Delaying Broder's inevitable column denouncing liberals for not supporting such a wonderful bill was Paul Krugman who found other good things in the bill Nelson was not aware he could still ask to be removed.

Will liberal outrage and hatred of Obam disappate before they can gather the 60 votes needed to say, "screw you, hippies!"?

O.K. Here is a better question..what do we possibly have to lose if we say YES to this Health Care Bill?

"What do we possibly have to lose if we say YES to this Health Care Bill?"

The entire DC establishment as they start to wonder what's wrong with HCR that we would still be on board.

I wouldn't be surprised to see calls for boycotts of Washington D.C., which could cause some trouble for legislators who are subservient to the anti-marriage equality crowd and also for future protests by teabaggers. How can they justify spending their hard earned dollars in a place with marriage equality?

Memekiller..not understanding your answer..sorry..brainfreeze..can you simplify, as it sounds important what you are saying (?). thanks.

"O.K. Here is a better question..what do we possibly have to lose if we say YES to this Health Care Bill?"

That any and all flaws in the bill, anything that goes wrong from the moment it passes--up to and including what was left out and should have been left in--will be laid at the feet of the Democrats.

They are not passing a bill that voters like. The majority of people want a public option and this one won't have it. In spite of a clear victory in the presidential election and decisive majorities in the house and senate, the Democrats are about to pass a bill that voters don't like. Voters will still be stuck with their crappy policies because there won't be a public option to compete with those policies.

Implied in your question is that we should just pass the damn bill because, as Krugman said, there's just so much good in it. I'm sure there is good in the bill. But there is also this: if voters believe that more could have been done, they will express that with apathy at the polls and Repugs will benefit, perhaps even take back the house. If that happens, the Obama presidency will for all intents and purposes be over.

All of this, I think, falls into the category of things that we might "possibly lose." I hope I'm wrong.

Insanity,

-The best bargaining chip for cost controls: the mandate.

-The middle class, as they are saddled with paying the subsidies for those who cannot afford insurance.

-The change to leverage reconciliation or the constitutional option to pass a better bill.

No one in DC will ever support health care reform if we're on board. The only way to get them to support this bill is if we get really upset and demand that it not be passed. If we rally around the bill now, they'll have to make it worse until we do get angry enough for the pundits to feel confident it's the sensible, centrist position, since centrism is defined as that which makes us fuming angry.

If you want reform, oppose it now before they start to second guess themselves and think there's still something left in it they haven't stripped.

"what do we possibly have to lose if we say YES to this Health Care Bill?"

How about the premiums we'll be forced to pay for fraudulent insurance?

Steely is not strange or confused - he is deliberately lying, saying anything to destroy HCR.
The GOP knows that successful HCR will destroy them, so they have to strike first,using whatever means available.

The difference between me, author of six books, US News and World Correspondent and frequent guest on the cable news circuit, and the "digital left" who sits at home, unemployed, writing angry posts until they cut the power, is that I understand what it's like not to have health insurance. I understand the plight of the common man.

Once you've been a national correspondent and finalist for the Pulitzer Prize, don't lecture me about suffering.

"I'm a little surprised to see Joe Trippi become a contributor to Fox News."

Hahahaha.

Was there anything more predictable, really?

Come on, Steve, I thought you were smarter than that.

The Senate bill as it appears to stand now IS a failure of Health Reform. The sound you hear is the CEOs of Aetna, Wellpoint, Blue Cross, etc. dancing in the streets....

* I'm a little surprised to see Joe Trippi become a contributor to Fox News. -- Steve Benen

A man's gotta eat, no? And I don't think any Dem pol is likely to hire him as a consultant/campaign manager any time soon, if ever.

Charley James asks, "Is Joe Lieberman unbalanced?"

Five clinical psychiatrists answer, "He needs help."

As I sit typing this in the offices Atlantic Media Company, of which I am political director, between DC soirees as I await my latest Hardball appearance, is the fact that so many of those on the digital left with all this time on their hands to type angry comments operate in an environment completely removed from those who don't have health insurance.

Those Iranian troops were just out hiking and wandered over the border.

>>RNC Chairman Michael Steele is easily confused.

They also asked that I put a first class stamp on the envelope so the RNC doesn't have to pay for postage. Oh, so sorry! lol.

It seems we are stuck between a rock and a hard place and I want the least possible negative outcome for the Dems, and for the American people, as angry as I am at Obama.

We see clearly and plainly how folks like Lieberman have been allowed to control the debate.
And he should be kicked out on his ass and treated poorly and KUDOS for Franken for putting
him in his place.

But then I hear Michelle Bachman praying the Health Care Bill will die..is this a ruse or is it real?

Is she hoping we'll buy into her antics and then vote for the lame bill which will empower insurance companies..or is she REALLY and TRULY hoping it will die?

I am clueless and confused. I feel betrayed, uncertain and powerless.

What more can we realistically attempt to make this even a bit better?

Who can we trust but our own instincts and the facts that lay before us in terms of what the bill offers?

Is there enough competition and choice or is that the wrong question?

And perhaps could it be that even though Bachmann and others are "praying" for the demise of the bill,
that we still find it worthwhile, albeit horribly adrift from what we ever dreamed of?

Is that the reality?

Could it be that BOTH of these are true:

That they hate ANYTHING... and we hate what it is, as it stands.

So if both sides hate the bill for different reasons, what is best right now given what is left, given who is in power now, given what
Americans need (competition and choice)??????

Chait: "Kristol is a man of ideas, not some hack who marshals any available argument that serves his political ends." Beeeeep...Beeeeeep....Beeeeep...
Irony detector is going off.

Mybe all we need to say yes to for now is this lame teeny tiny morsel of opening the door-- and we have to suck it up to the horrific skeleton of a bill it is for now?

Maybe it will keep up the spirits of the Democratic Party and keep hope alive.

If it does that, than I say YES.

What's the choice?

Let's get real..

We have a wimpy President who is married to his Naive image of being the great 'Uniter' and remains an eloquent speaker and yet insists on keeping his rich hands clean while at the same time asserting his advocacy for the common person...

So F#c# Obama..but perhaps we need to find a way to put that anger and sadness aside, and punish him and the likes of Lieberman separate from this horrific skeletal bill (?).

Accepting the Senate bill as is would be no problem IF Congress had a much better track record of representing the American people rather than Corporate America and mainly the Rich and IF corporate executives of today did not always make it a top priority to screw both their customers and employees.

The whole thing with accepting the Senate bill is that giving the Senate and Corporate America the benefit of the doubt to address big flaws is required. Neither one deserves it.

haelth care refrom will cost a zillion billion trillion million gillion fillion million kajillion hundred thrillion chillion gold dollars every nanosecond times goggleplex

Per Insanity:

"O.K. Here is a better question..what do we possibly have to lose if we say YES to this Health Care Bill?"

The mandate as leverage.

The ability to not buy health insurance

The ability to ever extract the insurance companies from the health care industry.

The chance of ever getting real health care reform.

A whole lot of money we are going to donate to the federal government to give to the insurance industry to cover the poor people.

Any of you who think any meaningful reform will happen after this bill is passed have been living in a cave for the last 30 years and are higher than Steven Tyler in 1977.

In the words of that monumental philosopher, of the 1980's, Nancy Reagen, JUST SAY NO!!!!

Steve: "I'm a little surprised to see Joe Trippi become a contributor to Fox News."

Why are you surprised? At heart, Joe Trippi is a mercenary. I just don't listen to him. As we saw during Howard Dean's abortive '04 presidential run, Trippi's way overpaid for what he does, which in turn renders his work product mediocre at best. He offers nothing that I need to hear.

How much better a Bill could Dems get at least by threatening reconciliation or even going nuke? Many think it would be hard to do in practice, but can threats be effective? (Have to be credible, not sure if Reid up to it.)

While all you leftists are busy indulging your ideological fetishes, I'll be at Sen. Ensign's annual Christmas party. I hear that he has lap dancers this year, who like to do naughty things with Bailey's Irish Cream ...

Balch Springs, Texas (Dec.17) A pre-kindergarten school is fighting with the parents of a student for wearing his hair too long. In reading the article (on aohell from AP), one quote from the school stood out to me:

On its Web site, the district defends its code, saying "students who dress and groom themselves neatly, and in an acceptable and appropriate manner, are more likely to become constructive members of the society in which we live."

I think they meant to say:

On its Web site, the district defends its code, saying "students who dress and groom themselves neatly, and in an acceptable and appropriate manner, are more likely to become constructive REPUBLICAN members of the society in which we live."

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

This email arrived to me earlier today (I gave up here on italics html since it only shows for one line at a time):

Charles Chamberlain, Democracy for America
Fri, Dec 18, 2009

To:

Neil -

We just got back the numbers from DFA's joint national polling with the Progressive Change Campaign Committee and the results are striking:

Voters Revolt!

Only 33% of voters approve of the Senate's current plan to pass a bill without a public option but with a mandate forcing Americans to buy insurance.

The good news is the poll shows Democrats the roadmap to victory: 59% of voters still support a healthcare reform bill with a public option.

Senators must be warned. They must know what's at stake. ...[end quoted]

I know there's going to be some spinning from these people just like other perspectives, but I can't take this lightly. Instead of just thinking KTB or swallow whole as is, maybe there are some clever wrinkles to get something better? I hear of it, but don't trust if it will actually be done. Thoughts?

How much better a Bill could Dems get at least by threatening reconciliation or even going nuke? Many think it would be hard to do in practice, but can threats be effective?

Six months ago, this would have been a heckuva good idea. Now they'd just look desperate, and no one would believe Reid if he made the threat.

Take a deep breath? Why? I have no influence whatsoever on the events unfolding in Washington DC. I'm merely a spectator, and might as well be living on the far side of the moon for all it matters. There is absolutely nothing that I can say or do that will effect the course of political affairs in this country.

I'm not a corporation.

"O.K. Here is a better question..what do we possibly have to lose if we say YES to this Health Care Bill?"

In the words of that monumental philosopher, of the 1980's, Nancy Reagen, JUST SAY NO!!!!

Posted by: No

You really want to know what we stand to lose if we don't pass the bill? lives that otherwise would be saved if extended coverage to 31 million more people.

that's all. just a few lives that will die because they don't have coverage. but hey, what do i care? i've got coverage. today.

but of course, we can all wave our magic legislative wands over the thick heads of the republicans and the blue dogs, snap our fingers, get them to sing kumbaya and agree to a public option ... we do have our magic legislative wands don't we?

Betsy McCaughey may be Healthcare Misinformer of the Year, but she's the bridesmaid to Sarah Palin's bride. Palin won Politifact's "Lie of the Year" for blurting out her death panels stupidity. That's an impressive achievement given the stiff competition from Inhofe, King, Bachman, Cheney (both Mr. and Ms.) as well as the rest of the people with Rs after their name.

Check it out - http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/dec/18/politifact-lie-year-death-panels/

If HRC was easy it would have been done decades ago and we wouldn't be dealing with these boneheaded Senators and the requirement to have a 60 vote super majority to pass gas.
Take what we can from this bill (which is not in it's final form yet) and build on it tomorrow.

Where's my Public Option?
Where's my Medicare buy-in?
Where's my money?
Where's my house?
Where's my job?
Wherethehell am I?

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