Mississippi ranked first in every category and was easily the nation's most religious state.

Alabamaians are not taking this lying down. We would like to point out that most of that praying is taking place at the Casinos!

Maybe Warren should go up in the praying hands at ORU and fast until the money comes in!

Sorry, that's a little distasteful, but the first thing that came to mind.

Also, Jimmy Dobson will be launching a new ministry/radio show once he leaves Focus on the Family: http://tinyurl.com/yepqzv7. He only needs $2 million to get things up and rolling and has already begun passing the collection plate. I guess this is what passes for economic development in Bibleburg these days.

Snickers aside Warren's problem is not unique to Warren's ministry. I was told by a main stream protestant minister the other day that donations are way down in most churches. In fact churches are suffering more during the recession than other charities (who are also crying for help.) My friend's theory is that most people in the pews think the guy next to them will carry the church but the Salvation Army (or the local homeless shelter) really needs their help.

I wonder if God will "call" little Ricky "home", if he doesn't get the money, ala another semi-famous televangelist.

To paraphrase a certain somewhat pompous Irishman, the God I know isn't short of cash mister!

And finally, the New York Times is scrapping its "Beliefs" column today, after a 20-year run. That's a shame; I read it (ahem) religiously every Saturday.

And--given that it only appeared every two weeks--with a bit of a leap of faith as well? Glad to know that someone else regrets its loss.

Isn't Warren the guy who preaches the "gospel of prosperity," ie. that if you believe strongly enough (and send him enough money) you'll get rich? Maybe some of his followers are finally seeing this for the scam it is. Or maybe it's God's way of teaching this world-class hypocrite a lesson -- that what Warren is spouting is the exact opposite of what Jesus preached.

"Isn't Warren the guy who preaches the 'gospel of prosperity,' ie. that if you believe strongly enough (and send him enough money) you'll get rich?"

isn't that pretty much all of them?

Pastor Warren isn't known for preaching the prosperity gospel; you might be thinking of Joel Osteen. Maybe Osteen and Warren could team up and produce "Your Best Purpose-Driven Life Now".

I wonder if the reason specific charities are doing better than churches in this recession is that many attendees are not in total agreement with their churches direction; if their church is thought of as devoting a lot of resources towards fighting the culture war or doing overseas missions, members/attendees might divert some of their tithes and offerings towards charities that do works more in line with their individual philosophies.

Charlatans. I had a good year this year, and gave some time and money to Meals on Wheels, which is run by Interfaith Ministries. I met some fascinating people with interesting stories to tell, and made some friends along the way. You can't beat that by watching television.

And yet, the tax-hating, anti-American Republican Party still believes charity can fully replace Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, and all other social safety-net programs.

I'd like to try their murderous policies for awhile, just to see how much more efficient their ideas are at killing people than, say, Pol Pot's, or Stalin's Ukraine policy, or Hitler's extermination camps.

Hmm... I just got back from Alabama. Religion aside, my bro-in-law tells me that Alabama has the second-highest rate of obesity in the US-- and Mississippi has the highest.
False correlation, or maybe it's all those fatty Sunday dinners?

The problem with running an organization with donations from the middle class while championing "conservative" values is that the conservatives have been waging war on middle-class incomes for some time now.

I guess the good pastor will have to find another "purpose." But then, the Rapture is due on May 21, 2011, so he's only got to stave off the creditors until then.

In other news from Colorado Springs, home of FOTF and numerous other God-Spielers, budget cuts have forced police to cut back on their pursuit of vandals, drug dealers and juvenile offenders and to ground the department's helicopter.

But somehow money is still available for the "stripper patrol". The local paper quoted a police spokesperson as saying that the department never considered asking its vice squad to give up going undercover to bust (sic) exotic dancers.

The obvious conclusion from the Pew poll: religiosity=poverty, ignorance and intolerance. Who could have guessed?

Rick Warren is a quite a bit more conservative theologically than I personally am, but I have been impressed with his "walking the walk". Supposedly (I haven't seen his tax returns!), he gives 90% of his income (including royalties from "The Purpose Driven Life", which is WAY up there) to charity, thus reversing the usual tithing of only 10%. And he's gotten involved in lots of non-conservative theological causes: poverty, the environment, etc. And, being familiar with a few churches, yes, offerings are way down across the board...

Ireland has a fabulous new anti-blasphemy law,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/01/irish-atheists-challenge-blasphemy-law

enshrining special rights for the demented and which makes both these statements illegal,

Richard Dawkins: "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

Bjork: "The Buddhists say we come back as animals and they refer to them as lesser beings. Well, animals aren't lesser beings, they're just like us. So I say fuck the Buddhists."

Blasphemy laws: how long before Bill-O starts agitating for one? "If the gays can have special rights, why can't Christians?" You heard it here first...

Well, Thullen has come over from ObWi. Nice to see you, John. It means no-one else will ever win a thread!

And yet, the tax-hating, anti-American Republican Party still believes charity can fully replace Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, and all other social safety-net programs.

Actually, John, they say it, but they don't believe it, not for a millisecond. They don't care. None of the people who would suffer and die without those programs are rich Republicans, after all.

In fact churches are suffering more during the recession than other charities (who are also crying for help.) -- Ron Byers, @10:42

Maybe. Maybe it's now spreading to churches. But, in August-September of '09, NYT had two short articles on charity donations and on charity volunteerism and the findings then were otherwise. They found that people cut, first: donations to things like food banks and free clinics, second: to cultural causes and third: to religious causes/churches.

I remember that vividly, because I was livid; as an atheist and pragmatist, I think that a healthy and fed body takes precedence over the fancies of the mind (however needful those are too, to one's all around well being). Given that so much of our society runs on whims of individuals (charity donations) and given that those same people were screaming their heads off against the universal healthcare (those "townhalls"), it made me boiling mad that they thought that Jesus needed a new crown or fancy dress before Joe did...

@ exlibra 2:35pm

In fairness, many churches use donations to do good works (like homeless outreach or food pantries) in the wider community. Sure, some proselytize, get new stained glass or build new unneeded buildings, but an awful lot don't.

And I say that as a card-carrying atheist.

Warren purportedly gives 90% of the earnings from his books TO HIS CHURCH. If true, and to the best of my knowledge there are no audited accounts, then that not only means his church is doing poorly, but his books as well. The other issue is why is he spending so much money? He had no trouble making ends meet before his blockbuster book. How did he dig himself into such a deep hole, even if donations are off?

Focus on the Family, one of the nation's largest and most influential religious right outfits, is considering a plan to run a 30-second ad during the Super Bowl in opposition to abortion rights

I seem to recall several instances in the past where progressive groups have tried to run issue ads on the Super Bowl and the ads were refused because "political" ads are inappropriate (because Armed Forces recruting ads are in no way political, right?) Surely the result will be consistent when FoF wants to run an issue ad?

Evangelical pastor Rick Warren appealed to parishioners at his California megachurch Wednesday to help fill a $900,000 deficit by the first of the year.

Hard to say it better than Bono: The God I believe in isn't short on cash, mister.

In fairness, many churches use donations to do good works (like homeless outreach or food pantries) in the wider community. -- efgoldman, @14:42

True. There's a local church, for example, which supplies lunch for all of us (volunteers at the free clinic) once a month. There's another, which feeds the poll workers once a year (it's *always* election time in Virginia). And, some years ago, several churches got together and set up a homeless shelter for the winter. But, all those efforts tend to be sporadic and undependable, so cannot be configured into long-term planning (unlike the cold cash coming from the state and federal govts). Sooner or later, a new stained-glass (spell?) window takes the congregation's butterfly attention away from the need to feed and heal. Not surprising, really, since a new window will be there for years and years, while a meal or a tooth extraction is forgotten after 24hrs...

About that Pew Poll - apparently in my own state of Arizona 32% believe in God and 42% attend church. So I guess in Arizona, at least, athiests go to church quite frequently.

Odd poll results

DR. RICK WARREN COMMENDS SADDLEBACK CHURCH FOR GENEROUS RESPONSE
TO YEAR-END BENEVOLENCE REQUEST:
Pastor Announces $2.4 Million Received So Far to Meet Critical Ministry Needs;
Church Begins New Decade with Budget Surplus

Lake Forest, Calif., Jan. 2, 2010 – Pastor Rick Warren once again commended the Saddleback Church congregation attending the first of six weekend services in five locations for their radical generosity, announcing their faithful giving totaled $2.4 million so far in response to his year-end letter requesting support to offset a $900,000 budget shortfall to meet critical community needs.

“That’s a record for churches, a cash offering on the basis of a letter; and that doesn’t count money mailed in, which hasn’t been opened yet,” Warren exclaimed. “We are ending 2009 in the black and beginning 2010 with a surplus.”

Commending the congregation for their ongoing faithfulness, Warren announced the total by bringing onto the platform 24 volunteers, each holding a sign highlighting a Saddleback ministry and representing $100,000 in donations received. He explained that sum consisted of thousands of smaller gifts – none over $100 – and did not include mail not yet received because of the holiday.

“I wasn’t surprised by this offering, as Saddleback is famous for radical generosity,” Warren said, reminding those in attendance of their similar contribution of single offerings totaling $1.6 million and $1.7 million respectively to help victims of the Asian tsunami and Hurricane Katrina. “I say without fear of contradiction that I don’t know of a more generous church.”

Earlier in the service, Warren summarized a banner year of ministry impact, including food assistance to 2,000 local families, more than 2,800 baptisms, adding 4,000 new church members, record junior high and double senior high attendance and an average of 40 individuals per month making new faith commitments.

He further explained events leading him to send an unprecedented Intranet appeal containing inside information intended for members who consider Saddleback their church home, emphasizing the ministry never asks – or expects outsiders to give.

Warren clarified that the church had been essentially on budget for the first half of its fiscal year, until this past week. But despite 10 overflow Christmas eve services, the seasonal offering benefiting many of the church’s benevolence outreaches was down significantly; and the timing of Christmas on Friday affected attendance and giving on the final weekend of the year.

Warren said the needs of congregation and community has put the church in a “more bricks, less straw” ministry position, demanding the staff and programs provide more assistance with fewer resources.

“2009 was a very tough year, with 10 percent of the nation and our own church out of work,” Warren said. “But we took on a lot of new responsibilities. All of our ministries not only made major financial cut backs, but also experienced major ministry expansion.”

Through a special edition “News and Views” congregational e-letter Dec. 30, Warren provided an opportunity for the church to be the Church, asking individuals in the congregation who haven’t been hit by the current recession to step up and help those in the community who have.

Warren challenged the congregation to help offset a $900,000 shortfall from the final week offerings that help fund year-end benevolence ministry prior to the start of 2010, which would allow Saddleback to continue to minister and meet the needs of not just Orange County, but Southern California, the nation – and the world, through the PEACE Plan.

“Within an hour of sending out the newsletter, your gifts began to roll in and they didn’t stop,” Warren said.

Following the announcement, Warren shared the final message in his “Radical Christianity” series titled, “Radical Generosity.” He noted that radical generosity is not just about money but is about giving in all aspects of life, and should be done with enjoyment, joyfulness, enthusiastically and as a spiritual habit.

“Radical generosity is not an offering, it’s a lifestyle,” Warren said. “Generosity is an attitude, not an amount – it is not what you give, but how you give. God doesn’t need your money, your time or anything else from you; what he needs is your generosity, which comes from your heart.”

Warren continued by sharing five ways that radical generosity can transform one’s life, including increasing one’s love for Jesus; making one more like Jesus; demonstrating one’s faith; causing others to thank God; and honoring God as a witness to the watching world.

“We stand at a historical hinge point,” Warren added. “This new decade is what I’m calling ‘the decade of destiny.’ If you think God has used Saddleback in the last 30 years, then hold on to your hats. I believe the next decade is going to be the most amazing ever.”

Warren will make a similar announcement and share the “Radical Generosity” message in each of Saddleback’s remaining weekend services, which include Saturday at 6:30 p.m. PST and Sunday at 9:00 a.m., 11:15 a.m., 4:30 p.m. and 6:30 p.m. PST. All services will be streamed live at http://saddleback.com/internetcampus/live/index.html.

Saddleback Church, founded by the Dr. Warren and his wife Kay in 1980, is located in Lake Forest, Calif. With an average weekly attendance of 22,000, it is one of the five largest churches in America. For additional information about the Saddleback and its ministries, visit www.saddleback.com.

- 30 -

DR. RICK WARREN COMMENDS SADDLEBACK CHURCH FOR GENEROUS RESPONSE
TO YEAR-END BENEVOLENCE REQUEST:
Pastor Announces $2.4 Million Received So Far to Meet Critical Ministry Needs;
Church Begins New Decade with Budget Surplus

Lake Forest, Calif., Jan. 2, 2010 � Pastor Rick Warren once again commended the Saddleback Church congregation attending the first of six weekend services in five locations for their radical generosity, announcing their faithful giving totaled $2.4 million so far in response to his year-end letter requesting support to offset a $900,000 budget shortfall to meet critical community needs.

�That�s a record for churches, a cash offering on the basis of a letter; and that doesn�t count money mailed in, which hasn�t been opened yet,� Warren exclaimed. �We are ending 2009 in the black and beginning 2010 with a surplus.�

Commending the congregation for their ongoing faithfulness, Warren announced the total by bringing onto the platform 24 volunteers, each holding a sign highlighting a Saddleback ministry and representing $100,000 in donations received. He explained that sum consisted of thousands of smaller gifts � none over $100 � and did not include mail not yet received because of the holiday.

�I wasn�t surprised by this offering, as Saddleback is famous for radical generosity,� Warren said, reminding those in attendance of their similar contribution of single offerings totaling $1.6 million and $1.7 million respectively to help victims of the Asian tsunami and Hurricane Katrina. �I say without fear of contradiction that I don�t know of a more generous church.�

Earlier in the service, Warren summarized a banner year of ministry impact, including food assistance to 2,000 local families, more than 2,800 baptisms, adding 4,000 new church members, record junior high and double senior high attendance and an average of 40 individuals per month making new faith commitments.

He further explained events leading him to send an unprecedented Intranet appeal containing inside information intended for members who consider Saddleback their church home, emphasizing the ministry never asks � or expects outsiders to give.

Warren clarified that the church had been essentially on budget for the first half of its fiscal year, until this past week. But despite 10 overflow Christmas eve services, the seasonal offering benefiting many of the church�s benevolence outreaches was down significantly; and the timing of Christmas on Friday affected attendance and giving on the final weekend of the year.

Warren said the needs of congregation and community has put the church in a �more bricks, less straw� ministry position, demanding the staff and programs provide more assistance with fewer resources.

�2009 was a very tough year, with 10 percent of the nation and our own church out of work,� Warren said. �But we took on a lot of new responsibilities. All of our ministries not only made major financial cut backs, but also experienced major ministry expansion.�

Through a special edition �News and Views� congregational e-letter Dec. 30, Warren provided an opportunity for the church to be the Church, asking individuals in the congregation who haven�t been hit by the current recession to step up and help those in the community who have.

Warren challenged the congregation to help offset a $900,000 shortfall from the final week offerings that help fund year-end benevolence ministry prior to the start of 2010, which would allow Saddleback to continue to minister and meet the needs of not just Orange County, but Southern California, the nation � and the world, through the PEACE Plan.

�Within an hour of sending out the newsletter, your gifts began to roll in and they didn�t stop,� Warren said.

Following the announcement, Warren shared the final message in his �Radical Christianity� series titled, �Radical Generosity.� He noted that radical generosity is not just about money but is about giving in all aspects of life, and should be done with enjoyment, joyfulness, enthusiastically and as a spiritual habit.

�Radical generosity is not an offering, it�s a lifestyle,� Warren said. �Generosity is an attitude, not an amount � it is not what you give, but how you give. God doesn�t need your money, your time or anything else from you; what he needs is your generosity, which comes from your heart.�

Warren continued by sharing five ways that radical generosity can transform one�s life, including increasing one�s love for Jesus; making one more like Jesus; demonstrating one�s faith; causing others to thank God; and honoring God as a witness to the watching world.

�We stand at a historical hinge point,� Warren added. �This new decade is what I�m calling �the decade of destiny.� If you think God has used Saddleback in the last 30 years, then hold on to your hats. I believe the next decade is going to be the most amazing ever.�

Warren will make a similar announcement and share the �Radical Generosity� message in each of Saddleback�s remaining weekend services, which include Saturday at 6:30 p.m. PST and Sunday at 9:00 a.m., 11:15 a.m., 4:30 p.m. and 6:30 p.m. PST. All services will be streamed live at http://saddleback.com/internetcampus/live/index.html.

Saddleback Church, founded by the Dr. Warren and his wife Kay in 1980, is located in Lake Forest, Calif. With an average weekly attendance of 22,000, it is one of the five largest churches in America. For additional information about the Saddleback and its ministries, visit www.saddleback.com.

- 30 -

@ ex libra 9:38pm

Sometimes true, sometimes not.

I work for (and am not a member of) a very liberal congregation in a major city.

They run a food pantry, women's shelter and subsidized day care, year round and have for at least the 16+ years I've been associated with them.

They also do regular collections for UNICEF and holiday food and clothing drives for the homeless, every year, as well as serving Thanksgiving and Easter dinner for the homeless every year, again since before I started working for them.

Do all churches do it? No. Are the holy roller churches and the megachurches less likley to? Absolutely. The prosperity gospel doesn't really allow for helping the poor; after all its their own fault they're poor, isn't it? But an awful lot of good people do put their money and time where there mouths are.