No brainer?

According to the latest NBC poll only 33% of the country supports the health care bill. The number who oppose it has risen 20 points, to 46%, since April.

The Dems, and I am one, have really screwed this up. They made the bill too complicated and they took far too long. Obama and the Senate made a fatal mistake when they ditched the base in a futile pitch for bipartisanship. They should have done something simple, using reconciliation, like open medicare up to everyone and pay for it with a financial transaction tax on wall street. The base would have been thrilled, independents would see something being accomplished, and who the hell cares what republicans think.

"The pieces that need to be fixed -- the affordability and Cadillac tax -- are all budget issues, which you can do in reconciliation," the official said.

That indeed is what they NEED to do. The question is whether it would really happen or whether the White House and Congressional leadership just call it a day after ping-ponging the Senate bill. Color me sceptical. Progressive Representatives would need to get some very, very concrete and credible assurances. Actually, as their price they should push hard for everything that could be done via reconciliation- including reviving the public option- and not just a couple of small fixes.

Winners win, losers lose. And dragging this out any longer is just slow motion losing. Get it done. Brag about it. Push the other stuff through reconciliation, and start a full on populist war with the Banksters. Let Blanche Lincoln and Evan Bayh try join the Rs to defend Wall Street bonuses. I don't think they will.

At this point, I agree. The House should pass the Senate bill and then they can fix it up later.

Unfortunately, you know how the MSM is going to play it. "Dems force bill down throats of innocent Americans before GOP Senator arrives!"
You think the howling at tea parties is loud now? Just wait.

Yeah, sure they'll fix it later.

Remember Don't Ask, Don't Tell? How about EFCA?

Sure.

If the House signs off on the Senate bill, there is no reason for the Senate to then do reconciliation. And Obama certainly isn't going to fight for it.

The question is what the fuck are the people from Massachusetts thinking?!?

Are they really stupid enough to vote for a tea party candidate???

Additionally, if the democrat loses this should be a wake up call to all democrats for 2010. Abandon your principles and go for that mystical 'centrist' voter at your own peril. There is a reason why people put democrats in power in '06 and '08. For the life of me I don't understand what has happened in the last year.

talk about grabbing defeat from the Jaws of victory. I think the democrat's weak, pussyness is institutional; just like a team that for whatever reason, despite having the best draft picks year in and year out, keeps losing.

I for one will never vote democratic in my life if they fail to pass HCR. And I've got about 40 years left of voting (I hope).

I say we pool our resources and take out some national advertisements warning democrats to see this through. If not, they will had the henhouse back over the the foxes and this country of ours will become a banana republic.

"One top Democrat said it would be a moderately simple sell to get the House to pass the Senate's bill, provided the assurances were there to change it down the road."

And the check is in the mail.

Unbeknown to Democrats and Republicans, there is a strong anti-incumbant, libertarian, 'pox-on-both-your-houses', populist wind blowing through the country.

It was one of the reasons Obama was elected; it wasn't that everyone became a Democrat. The public viewed him as a relative outsider with a populist message.

(Of course, over the past year, he's governed as a total wink-wink insider.)

Both parties have completely missed it. It started up around the time of Bush's last year in office with the TARP and the Iraq disaster.

If Democrats want to succeed, they will find a way to harness this mood in the country. Otherwise they'll get voted out as well.

"At his weekly press conference this morning, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) told reporters that the Senate health care bill would be better than no reform at all."

Only if they want to go back to being the Minority in the Congress.

When are the Dems going to stop allowing themselves to be rolled? If it's true that Republicans (and real Americans) respect strength, you're never going to get anywhere by trying to win them over with a few choruses of "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing". If it's in the rulebook, use it.

Isn't it better to be hated and feared than hated and held in contempt? The "hated" part is always going to be a constant, at least from the Republicans.

The Republicans could care less about good governance. All they care about is getting back in power and getting things back to business as usual.

And yes, the public hates the Senate health care bill proposal. If this gets pushed through, the November elections will be a blood bath, not because people will be necessarily going 'Republican', they'll be voting out the incumbent who voted for the HCR bill.

"'The pieces that need to be fixed -- the affordability and Cadillac tax -- are all budget issues, which you can do in reconciliation', the official said."

Oh, I see.

We can supposedly 'fix' "affordability" and the "Cadillac tax" with reconciliation, BUT WE CAN'T DO THE PUBLIC OPTION AND THE MEDICARE BUY-IN WITH RECONCILIATION.

Got it.

Democrats will stay at home in DROVES come November.

Health Care Reform has already failed. The Repubs don't want it (of course), the progressives don't like it and a substantial majority of the electorate is against it. If the Dems don't pass it, they will be targeted -- correctly -- as being unable to get anything done, even with a majority, If they do pass it, come November they will be forced to explain why they are forcing voters to purchase crappy insurance at inflated prices from the very folks that caused the problem in he first place, without adequate subsidies -- all without any public alternative, and without any mechanism for realistic cost control. Either way, this turkey is a loser.

The public doesn't know what the proposals are. They never have. The polls mostly reflect the questions. Only wonks can tell you what the public option was, and what the current bill is.

After the bill is sold to them, when people find out that recissions, denial of coverage are gone, that subsidies are in, etc., public support will rise far higher than the Dem doubters can imagine. Which wouldn't be a first.

The Dem doubters are politically clueless.

Get real. The Dems will kill it. They are spineless idiots. They are ruled by fear, intimidated by Fox, and incapable to learning from history, let alone standing up for what is good for anyone but the banksters.

The public hates the current HCR bill for two reasons:

1) They are still buying into the right-wing fear mongering about what the bill will do

2) They don't think the bill will do enough

Contrary to what many of you are suggesting, the best way to overcome these two problems is to pass the fucking bill, and fast.

Those in column 1 will quickly find out that the GOP (as usual) is completely full of shit, and all that fear mongering will quickly be forgotten. Those in column 2 would still be happier with some reform than none at all, and they will come around once the bill is passed and we can move on to other issues like jobs and financial reform.

I think very few congress people will be voted out for supporting this bill.

Let's all remember above all, that if Repugs and blue dogs hadn't wrecked the public option and compromised so much, there'd be less to criticize, less issue with "being forced to buy from private providers" etc. They're the ones responsible for it being lousy and maybe not better than nothing.

"BUT WE CAN'T DO THE PUBLIC OPTION AND THE MEDICARE BUY-IN WITH RECONCILIATION."

Obviously you prefer hyperventilating to rational thinking, but let's give this a shot.

Reconciliation comes with some very inconvenient sunset provisions, so to pass any major portions of the bill like that would only pave the way for the entire thing to disappear in a few years unless extended by Congress.

Minor fixes and tweaks to the overall legislation - like the Cadillac tax and affordability measures - are better suited for reconciliation because they are less vulnerable to the sunset provisions (especially if they end up saving taxpayers money).

Not that I expect you to understand the distinction while frothing at the mouth, but there it is.

Seems like the public option and/or Medicare buy-in would soon be very popular, and very difficult to allow to sunset if passed though reconciliation.

Minor fixes and tweaks to the overall legislation - like the Cadillac tax and affordability measures - are better suited for reconciliation because they are less vulnerable to the sunset provisions (especially if they end up saving taxpayers money).

Posted by: John S. on January 19, 2010 at 3:39 PM | PERMALINK

That would be enough to call HCR a success, and while I've seen conflicting accounts of what's legal under reconciliation, I think the tweaks you mention would be all that's politically feasible.

Seems like the public option and/or Medicare buy-in would soon be very popular, and very difficult to allow to sunset if passed though reconciliation.
Posted by: cnmne on January

I think the Medicare buy-in, with an emphasis on buy-in, would be popular enough to be a strong campaign plank for Dems in November. If they're smart. Big "if", I know.

Why is it assumed that once this bill gets passed/jammed through, Democrats can turn to financial reform or jobs.

Trust me, when this passes all their energies will be taken up trying to explain it or sell it.

We're also discounting foreign policy. Many think the likelihood of an Iran blockade by U.S. naval ships this Spring or Summer is pretty high. Just look at the events like the Christmas Day attempted bombing and the Haiti earthquake.

I predict that nothing happens this year with financial industry reform and a jobs bill/second stimulus never gets off the ground.

Johnny Tremaine, it's hard to know what you *want*: can you agree with us, if you're not an idiot or self-destructive tool, that finance reform is necessary or our lives get even crappier than before?

Maybe Dems are growing a pair, but a day later and a dollor fat:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/19/senate-democrat-outlines-nuclear-option-strategy-health-care/

The problem is, as usual, the Republican/Tea Baggers have the better narrative: "Hey, Fred, Can you believe those Democrats wanted to FORCE us to buy health insurance? And if you're lucky enough to have great employer or union health care, they wanted to TAX it? Throw those crazy bums out!" Then there's the Democratic narrative: "Hey, Fred. I found out I can buy insurance even though I'm unemployed and have a pre-existing condition. The government's gonna pay for it! Do those Democrats know how to bend a cost curve or what?"

John,

"Reconciliation comes with some very inconvenient sunset provisions, so to pass any major portions of the bill like that would only pave the way for the entire thing to disappear in a few years unless extended by Congress."

The Public Option and the Medicare Buy-in are WILDLY popular.

I LOL at neil b who thinks that Geithner and Summers will pursue true financial industry reform.

Oh, how naive.

Anthony weiner was on morning joe saying the bill is dead if Brown wins... Joe then, said 'but what about passing the bill as is'? And Weiner said 'NO, he couldn't see the house pass the senate bill in its current form'. I think Anthony weiner is a nonpractical progressive and full of bitch-assness nonsense. He needs to pass the damn bill or else we all suffer.

"The Public Option and the Medicare Buy-in are WILDLY popular."

Yeah, with the public - not Congress.

Shit moves slowly through the halls of our government. Always has, always will. Since no government program has ever been reduced in the history of America, the trick is to get something on the books. It can and will be modified later.

John,

"Since no government program has ever been reduced in the history of America, the trick is to get something on the books."

That's an argument for enacting a Public Option, a Medicare Buy-in, and stripping the health insurance corporations of their anti-trust exemption.

Remember Harry Reid famously giving repubs more time, the committees more time...all of August etc?

Good ole Harry...always the wrong leadership decisions under the guise of trying to be bipartisan...with liars and obstructionists.

According to the latest NBC poll only 33% of the country supports the health care bill. The number who oppose it has risen 20 points, to 46%, since April.

alvord is right. Read the polls. HCR is already dead. Rahm might be able to push this POS through, but only at the expensive of making every Dem ballot in 2010 a vote on Obama and HCR.

Shorter message for those that think somehow progressives caused this fiasco:

Rahm's a fucking idiot.

"HEALTH CARE FAILURE CAN'T BE AN OPTION"

Health care reform was a failure pretty much from the get go. The dems in general and Obama in particular played this one about as badly as possible and made their majorities utterly impotent while inflicting tons of wounds on themselves.

It's really hard to see how they could have done worse, except to maybe actually pass the abomination of the senate bill, but fortunately it seems like their incompetence has finally become self limiting and they'll lose the ability to pass a horrible bill.

Blessed gridlock, praise unto you.

Johnny T, I don't trust Geithner/Summers but they aren't legislators. There is enough interest, and I hope enough Dems see the light for electoral advantage. You give up too easy, and BTW I mean 'what you want' as in, want it bad enough.

A LINE IN THE SAND - From jacksmith - WorkingClass

My Fellow Americans and People Of The World

A strong Government-run MEDICARE like Public Option is STILL! CRITICAL!

We have had a long hard struggle to find out what would be the BEST! that this congress and the Whitehouse could do to fix our highly dangerous, poor quality, most costly, and MOST! disgraceful healthcare delivery system in the world. It is clear that congress can do much more for the American people than what is proposed so far.

It is clear that congress can pass a strong GOVERNMENT-run public option CHOICE. Available to everyone on day one. Expand Medicare and not levy any new taxes on workers healthcare benefits and plans. LET THIS BE YOUR LINE IN THE SAND!

Lastly, there can be NO! INDIVIDUAL MANDATES without a strong Government-run MEDICARE like Public Option CHOICE. Or the American people WILL! and SHOULD! revolt with an all out CIVIL WAR against congress and this Government.

House and Senate progressives and the tri-caucuses should aggressively push for the inclusion of a strong Public Option, Medicare expansion, and no new taxes on workers healthcare benefits and plans. If the obstructionist kill meaningful healthcare reform, then you should kill this bill. Because it will be far worse than the healthcare disaster we have now. It's failure will be on the obstructionist heads. And they will be punished and replaced.

WITHOUT A PUBLIC OPTION CHOICE, THIS BILL WILL KILL FAR MORE AMERICANS THAN IT WILL SAVE.

What is proposed in the Senate bill is the worst case scenario for health-care reform. It would shift trillions of taxpayer, public and private dollars into the hands of the private insurance industry (The single most costly, deadly and dangerous product sold in America). And it would compel by law millions of Americans to financially support this oxymoronic criminal enterprise. You cant have a individual MANDATE WITHOUT A STRONG PUBLIC OPTION CHOICE!

You will have NO! realistic way of controlling cost and quality. Cost will continue soaring through the roof bleeding the American people dry, and KILLing our economy. And our quality of healthcare will continue to decline below our current ranking of "WORST! quality of healthcare delivery in the developed World".

From the very start, the American people have been crystal clear about what they wanted. They wanted a humane single payer system like the rest of the developed world has (HR676). Or at least a humane strong GOVERNMENT-run public option CHOICE!! This is what the American people gave the democrats control of the house, control of the senate, and control of the Whitehouse to do.

Those of you that can, should prepare now to remove every member of congress that fails to support YOUR healthcare reform with a strong Public Option, Medicare expansion, and no new taxes on workers healthcare benefits and plans. Run against them in teams if you have to. But take them out. And replace them with a strong single payer or PRO PUBLIC OPTION CHOICE candidate.

Now! is the time to bring maximum pressure on your members of congress. Contact your representatives and spread the word.

The Public Option http://tinyurl.com/yfftf76

H1N1 IS A WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION!

I have to tell you now that the H1N1 virus is a man-made WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION! and TERROR! It is a WEAPONIZED version of a flu virus. It has swept the planet infecting millions. And causing a global pandemic that has killed tens of thousands, and injured millions.

The H1N1 virus is the product of the DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN PRIVATE FOR PROFIT MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX! It was released in the U.S. in Texas in early January of this year, but not recognized until around April in California. The reason I know this is because when it came to America, it came to see me FIRST! How sweet...

This was around the time the MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX! assaulted the Whitehouse with all their devils deals to cripple and weaken YOUR! healthcare reform. Especially your right to have a single payer system like HR676 (Medicare For All) which most of you wanted.

They don't even want you to have your HUGE!!! compromise position of a strong government-run MEDICARE like Public Option CHOICE. To compete with their DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN, MURDEROUS, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT PRODUCT (The single most costly, deadly and dangerous product sold in America).

They also wanted to take away your rights to have your government meet it's responsibility to use it's full power to regulate, negotiate, and control drug cost, healthcare cost and quality. Something every other civilized country in the developed World has done for it's people. Their Greed! moral degeneracy and lack of patriotism knows no bounds.

Many of you will remember that before we knew about H1N1. I posted a open message to the President and Congress warning them to be vigilant about their health, and cautious about any medical advice they received. As I said then "they will not hesitate to try and hurt you".

The U.S. and the World have been under a BIOLOGICAL TERROR ATTACK! for over a year now. It is CRITICAL that We The People Of The United States take away control of our healthcare system from the GREED DRIVEN MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX!

For our own National security, and the security of the world.

A Strong, government-run, MEDICARE like Public Option CHOICE. Available to everyone on day one, with the full unfettered power of the federal government to regulate, negotiate, and control cost and quality. Would be the most workable way to deal with this global crisis at this time. Including patent suspensions as needed for national security or the greater good.

As an American I invite the peoples of the World to help us fix our healthcare crisis. And bring pressure on our government to meet it's responsibility to protect global security by controlling, and removing the corrupting influence of GREED and the PRIVATE FOR PROFIT motivations from healthcare in the U.S. and around the World.

I call on the governments of the World and the global intelligence community to track down these MASS MURDERERS, and bring them to justice. CONNECT THE DOTS! And be vigilant that they don't slip in another viral strain on you under the cloak of H1N1 sequestration.

Further, the proposed patent protection on biologic's must be stripped from the US bill. And greatly shorten/restricted, or abolished completely. This is a grave danger to humanity and global security.

I think President Obama is doing the best he can at playing the disastrous deck of cards he inherited from the previous administration. And I think he is doing an excellent job. But the wolves and devils of the medical industrial complex! are trying to exploit, and take advantage of his good heart, and desperate desire to help suffering Americans. But we must be strong and insist that healthcare reform be done right for the American people. Or everyone loose's.

This is all I can say in a message post. I'll try to find a way to tell you more later.

God Bless You My Fellow Human Beings

jacksmith - Working Class

p.s. The so-called nominal H1N1 virus is designed in such a way as to make it more lethal to children and young adults. The medical community must be more vigilant of secondary bacterial infections in the young caused by H1N1. And remember, a viral infection is also a transfer of genetic code to you. Think about it, and be vigilant. :-(

RE: jacksmith

is this your term paper on H1N1?