Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

Email Newsletter icon, E-mail Newsletter icon, Email List icon, E-mail List icon Sign up for Free News & Updates

January 21, 2010

PELOSI SAYS SHE LACKS THE VOTES.... I like to think that the House Democratic caucus is made up of some reasonably intelligent, self-interested, logical people. It's why I'm simply astounded their judgment could be this bad.

The House lacks the votes to pass the Senate's healthcare bill, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Thursday.

Pelosi threw cold water on the idea that the House could muster enough support to pass the Senate's health bill, which includes a number of provisions liberals in the House find distasteful.

"I don't see the votes for it at this time," Pelosi told reporters during her weekly press conference. "The members have been very clear."

Pelosi added that the caucus realizes that "we have to get a bill passed," but didn't say when, how, or what a bill might look like. She only knows that the Senate bill, which is just sitting there, ready to be approved, lacks the votes.

This really is crazy. The finish line is right there. Here's Jonathan Cohn again from yesterday:

For all of the panic in Democratic ranks right now, the reality of the situation is stunningly simple. In the span of twenty-four hours, the House of Representatives -- the House in which Democrats command a huge majority, in which liberals actually have some sway, and in which leadership actually has power -- could put health care reform on the president's desk for signing.

One lousy vote. One lousy, stinking roll call vote. That's the only hurdle in the way of health care reform.

Are Democrats really willing to give up now?

Now, I realize that Pelosi said she doesn't have the votes "at this time." Maybe they'll come together later? Maybe House members are waiting for some assurances about reconciliation? Maybe the House has some kind of bizarre expectation that the Senate will make its bill better? I don't know; Pelosi didn't say.

I do know that the House has already passed one reform bill. It just needs one more vote -- the debate would be done; the bill would be law; the landmark breakthrough would be complete; Dems would have demonstrated their ability to deliver; and policymakers could finally move on to other issues.

Allowing this to fail now is insane.

Pass. The. Damn. Bill.

Steve Benen 12:35 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (107)

Bookmark and Share
 
Comments

It surreal, it's that unbelieveable. Who knew just how cowardly these fools were.

Posted by: Candide on January 21, 2010 at 12:39 PM | PERMALINK

>>Allowing this to fail now is insane.>>

It's becoming clear that the Democrats are insane.

Posted by: fusion on January 21, 2010 at 12:40 PM | PERMALINK

"I realize that Pelosi said she doesn't have the votes "at this time." Maybe they'll come together later? Maybe House members are waiting for some assurances about reconciliation?"

Given the way the Obama Administration (aka Rahm) has been shitting on progressives, I think this is the likely scenario. And I support that strategy (if that is truly the case).

I think they should eventually vote for the bill, but I want Obama's sworn oath IN BLOOD that they will immediately and unrelentingly work to inmprove the bill and eliminate the worst parts (mandate, cadillac tax, etc.). He needs to openly make this promise to the entire party and stake his reputation on it.

Posted by: bdop4 on January 21, 2010 at 12:41 PM | PERMALINK

Health care insurance reform is dead. There will be nothing passed "at some later time." A 50+ majority in the house and they can't find the votes.

Time to leave politics for good.

Posted by: Joe on January 21, 2010 at 12:44 PM | PERMALINK

i cannot help but laugh...
with stomach knotted up...
as it has been for months...

Now it can be told:

NO HEALTH CARE REFORM FOR YOU, SUCKERS!!1!!

Posted by: neill on January 21, 2010 at 12:44 PM | PERMALINK

time for reconciliation! I like Ezra Klein's idea:

"Democrats could scrap the legislation and start over in the reconciliation process. But not to re-create the whole bill. If you go that route, you admit the whole thing seemed too opaque and complex and compromised. You also admit the limitations of the reconciliation process. So you make it real simple: Medicare buy-in between 50 and 65. Medicaid expands up to 200 percent of poverty with the federal government funding the whole of the expansion. Revenue comes from a surtax on the wealthy."

Posted by: julie on January 21, 2010 at 12:45 PM | PERMALINK

They deserve to lose. We as a nation deserve to devolve into a third world country run by corrupt right wingers controlled by giant corporations. We deserve to have a health care system more akin to Haiti's than Sweden's. We deserve to have demogogues like Glenn Beck given a prominent platform, we deserve to have ill informed mobs of idiots informing our political discourse.

We must fucking deserve it. There is NO political courage in this country, nada, zip. Progressives once were willing to literally die for the cause, in the labor movement, the suffragette movement, the civil rights movement.

Now, we cannot even rouse ourselves to march on Washington in greater numbers than the godawful teabaggers.

The right wingers want freedom? They don't want to pay taxes? Fine. Let's do away with it all. Social Security. Medicare. Tri Care. Medicaid. Public Schools. Libraries. Let's just shut down the federal government. Let's just become a third world country. As long as they have their guns and their "freedoms" they'll be happy, right?

Posted by: ajaye on January 21, 2010 at 12:45 PM | PERMALINK

Jesus, Steve, learn to read. She didn't rule out "Plan B", only straight-up passage of the Senate bill without further amendment. And you Villagers need to understand that nobody trusts the Senate (nor should they), so the only possible way to execute Plan B will be for the amendment package to be passed by BOTH houses FIRST, followed by House passage of the original Senate bill (no technical problem with that, Obama just has to sign them in the right order.) You pride yourself on "realism" but you're actually completely out of touch with political reality.

Posted by: Steve LaBonne on January 21, 2010 at 12:47 PM | PERMALINK

Forget the feint-within-a-feint nonsense. This isn't designed to "put pressure" on anybody, and there's not going to be any "next time."

Enough DINO Blue Dogs, zealous progressives, and single-issue (or single-contributor) robots have decided that they can avoid blame more easily by killing this thing than by accepting it, and that's what they're doing.

Profiles in Cowardice.

I'm voting Republican next election, for the first time in my life, just to get rid of my damn Congressman.

Posted by: bleh on January 21, 2010 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINK

fusion said:
It's becoming clear that the Democrats are insane.

No, the Democrats are coward who hide under their desks and soil themselves at the mere thought of having a rightwing talking point aimed in their direction.

The Republicans are insane -- as in living in a world divorced from reality where death panels exist and global warming doesn't.

The Republicans are willing to see the United States collapse as long as they get to rule over the rubble. Democrats are willing to see the country collapse as long as they will get re-elected so they won't have to find a real job.


Posted by: SteveT on January 21, 2010 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINK

With all due respect, but you've been wrong about the health care debate every step of the way and, like most DC wonks, utterly clueless about how the politics of the debate were unfolding outside the bubble of DC.

The Senate bill is a political disaster. Anyone in touch with their constituents knows it.

Howard Dean wasn't an effective DNC chair because he's a genius, but because he didn't spend his time hobnobbing with policy wonks in Georgetown. He got off his butt and went out to where the voters actually reside and listened to them. Something that the Democratic Party might want to try again.

Posted by: pls on January 21, 2010 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINK

A football analogy, if you will.

The Dems finally make it to the Super Bowl, something they haven't achieved in 40 years. At the end of the fourth quarter, the game is tied. Dems win the OT coin flip. They take the ball, and in an ugly but grimly determined drive, move the ball down the field. It's First and Goal at the 1 yard line.

On first down, the Dem QB fumbles the snap. (Mass election.) Dems recover at the 5.

On second down, the Dems punt, trying to pin their opponents deep, but the ball goes into the end zone for a touchback.

Posted by: Tim H on January 21, 2010 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINK

Democrats in Congress are cowardly pieces of shit. The leadership should be replaced immediately, and by immediately, I mean last August.

Posted by: Jeremy on January 21, 2010 at 12:49 PM | PERMALINK

Steve,

Did you read the polling that came out of Massachusetts? I bet you every politician in Washington has. Brown won because the people of Massachusetts disapprove of the current healthcare bill.

You can gripe all you want, but the fact is the public is convinced the current senate bill is a big mess. Most important most people are convinced the bill is bad for them personally.

Before any bill is passed the politicians have to do something to convince the American people that the bill is not just a big give away to the special interests. Either that or they have to be convinced that their interests were taken into account and that the Democrats still believe their interests are special.

Right now it is hard as hell to find anybody who thinks any Washington politician gives a rats ass about anybody who doesn't have a platoon of paid K Street consultants.

Tell all of us, not just us political animal types, what is in the Senate health care bill for us people who don't call DC home?

Remember, unlike you, the House democrats are all running for reelection and they are going to have to tell their constituents what they have done for them lately.

Posted by: Ron Byers on January 21, 2010 at 12:50 PM | PERMALINK

No We Can't!

Fucking unbelievable. Welcome to the Idiocracy.

Posted by: Cazart on January 21, 2010 at 12:51 PM | PERMALINK

Obama needs to drop the hammer on Congress and say "I will not sign an increase in the debt ceiling until congress sends me a health care bill that I can sign. By the way, I can sign the Senate bill as it stands. I'm not going to tell Congress how to do it's job, but if they want federal money to continue going to their state they need to get this done."

Posted by: DCBIII on January 21, 2010 at 12:51 PM | PERMALINK

No, the Democrats are coward who hide under their desks and soil themselves at the mere thought of having a rightwing talking point aimed in their direction.

That sounds insane to me.

Republicans don't have the brains to govern. Democrats don't have the guts. Each is insane in its own way.

Posted by: fusion on January 21, 2010 at 12:52 PM | PERMALINK

I've written to my Blue Dog congressman. My wife has written to our congressman. Everybody needs to get each (supportive) family member to do the same. Phone calls are just as good.

Keep the pressure on!

Posted by: Joe on January 21, 2010 at 12:54 PM | PERMALINK

Remember, unlike you, the House democrats are all running for reelection and they are going to have to tell their constituents what they have done for them lately.

And they will have to say, "We worked on a healthcare bill for eight months and didn't get one passed". How do you see this playing out? I don't think the Dems can start over. It is either this crappy bill or nothing.

Posted by: Blue Neponset on January 21, 2010 at 12:55 PM | PERMALINK

Jesus you people are fucking MORONS. The senate bill is DEAD DEAD DEAD. It ain't happening. It's over. It is DONE.

No liberal/progressive House member in their ethical and right mind will give a corporate handout to insurance companies after the DEMOCRATIC and INDEPENDENT voters of MA said FUCK OFF by voting AGAINST Coakley specifically because of the Senate bill!

All that passing THAT bill will do is ENSURE a massive fail by the Democrats in the November elections. That. Is. A. Fact.

Another FACT. Objective and inarguable: the PUBLIC OPTION was what made the original healthcare bill popular. It was supported by 65% of those polled! Hell's fucking BELLS! AFTER the public option was removed by the corporate dicksucks in the senate, even GOP voter support for the healthcare bill dropped by 26%.

You FUCKTARDS cannot accept reality. The PEOPLE who matter (that would NOT be you who want to steamroll the people) DO NOT WANT THE BILL.

FUCK YOU ASSHOLES! It isn't happening. Get the fuck over it. NOW.

Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on January 21, 2010 at 12:57 PM | PERMALINK

Pelosi should bring the Senate bill to the House floor and vote. I want to know which Dems won't back it. Put them on the spot. Make them cast a "No" vote on the only chance they'll get before 2050. There will be no new bill. There will be little pieces of bills filtering through. It's this or nothing.

Posted by: Tim H on January 21, 2010 at 12:58 PM | PERMALINK

Perhaps, y'know, just wondering, but maybe Pelosi doesn't have the votes because the Senate Bill is *that* *bad*.

If the bill had been worth saving, I'm pretty sure that'd have been on the minds of MA voters last Tuesday. Unfortunately, it's a terrible bill, and expecting people to just go ahead and vote for it knowing that it'll make things worse, not better, simply because it has the words "Healthcare Reform" in the title, is stupid beyond comprehension.

Does that mean Health Care Reform is dead? Not really. It means the Senate has to figure out how to get things passed with a clear majority of the votes, instead of 60. Before you piss and whine about this, consider the following:

The senate is going to have to do this anyway.

You honestly think HCR is the only thing that the Senate was going to consider this year? Do you think, honestly, that now the Democrats only have 57 + 1 + Lieberman votes out of 100, that they're just going to close shop and NEVER MAKE ANY DECISIONS EVER AGAIN?

This is the Senate's problem. It's Reid's problem. It's not Pelosi's. Pelosi's mob passed a workable, not ideal, but good "starter" bill at the beginning of this, and the Senate essentially removed everything from it that made it viable. The Senate created the mess. They have to fix the mess anyway. Let them.

Make them.

Posted by: squiggleslash on January 21, 2010 at 12:58 PM | PERMALINK

"We as a nation deserve to devolve into a third world country run by corrupt right wingers controlled by giant corporation"- ajaye on January 21, 2010 at 12:45 PM

-What do you mean, DESERVE TO? Where ya been, the last, oh, fifty years?

Posted by: DAY on January 21, 2010 at 12:58 PM | PERMALINK

I just finished sending my first email to Pres. Obama. I told him that if Healthcare Reform is shelved that I and the those who voted for him would consider him to have failed us.He has failed TO LEAD. He has, in my opinion, been the weakest link in this whole process. His latest comment that the bill should be water down to attract Republican support is just another of his
maneuvers to
"skate thru" his term to avoid a "loss" rather than stand and fight the "good fight". No cojones!

Posted by: fillphil on January 21, 2010 at 12:59 PM | PERMALINK

Just called the speaker's office, and it seems she's getting hammered - I talked to a very impolite person who, as soon as I said "hello" to, I was dumped into voice mail.

Keep up the pressure (just remember the people in her office are really stressed, so thank them).

Posted by: Fang on January 21, 2010 at 1:00 PM | PERMALINK

Here is the ONLY acceptable reform and bill (to be done via reconciliation):

What Ezra Klein said.

That's right: simply open Medicare for buy-in at age 50, expand Medicaid to 200% of poverty level, and pay for it with a surtax on the rich.

Done. And fully 100% acceptable without a single giveaway or government-enforced profit for insurance companies.

For those who don't want to jump over to the Klein article:

emocrats could scrap the legislation and start over in the reconciliation process. But not to re-create the whole bill. If you go that route, you admit the whole thing seemed too opaque and complex and compromised. You also admit the limitations of the reconciliation process. So you make it real simple: Medicare buy-in between 50 and 65. Medicaid expands up to 200 percent of poverty with the federal government funding the whole of the expansion. Revenue comes from a surtax on the wealthy. And that's it. No cost controls. No delivery-system reforms. Nothing that makes the bill long or complex or unfamiliar. Medicare buy-in had more than 51 votes as recently as a month ago. The Medicaid change is simply a larger version of what's already passed both chambers. This bill would be shorter than a Danielle Steel novel. It could take effect before the 2012 election.
Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on January 21, 2010 at 1:01 PM | PERMALINK

House members can say, "we passed a damn good bill but it got stalled because the Senate is disfunctional. They wanted us to adopt that crappy Senate bill with the Nebraska amendment ant the big give aways to the insurance industry, but I refused to go along. I wouldn't do that to you."

What I am saying is that the average guy needs to be shown how not passing that "crappy bill" is going to hurt them. In short, Democrats need to do something they are loath to do, explain why giving the health insurance companies, big pharma and the rest everything they want and more, is in the best interests of average working class Democrat.

Posted by: Ron Byers on January 21, 2010 at 1:02 PM | PERMALINK

Are Democrats really willing to give up now?

Yes. And it's guys like that fuckwitted Congressman Wiener who are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good who are doing it. This nice big failure can be laid right at the doorstep of the congressional left, too stupid to see that you do what Ted Kennedy would have done. Vote for the bill and then work to change things after it's law.

God damn the Democratic Left!!

Posted by: TCinLA on January 21, 2010 at 1:03 PM | PERMALINK

I am trying to fight it, but more and more I just want to tell all the Democrats to go to Hell. All they do is waste our time and pretend they are serious, when in fact they are unwilling to stand up for anything. Right now I suspect I and a lot of liberals/progressives are going to sit out the 2010 election. To all the Democratic office holders: Good luck try to pick up votes from conservatives and independents, but I suspect you are going to reap what you sow. Look up the 1994 election if you want to see your future.

Posted by: J. Frank Parnell on January 21, 2010 at 1:03 PM | PERMALINK

Steve, you are losing your audience -- notice how the comment numbers have fallen? You have simply become a shrill for the White House and people don't like it.

Don't you get it? People don't like this health care bill -- passing it would be a disaster. Liberal and progressives don't want to sell out to the insurance and pharmaceutical industries and don't want to put further limits on reproductive rights. Conservatives simply don't like any of it.

So who likes this bill? The White House, you, and those Democrats who don't care about policy but just want a "win" no matter what it actually results in.

Kill this bill, primary Obama and move on. We need real leadership now -- especially now that the Supreme Court has given the green light to a corporate take over of the country (not that it hasn't happen already as witnessed by the way the WH caved to corporate interests on health care).

Posted by: Joesbrain on January 21, 2010 at 1:04 PM | PERMALINK

You assholes are focused on the wrong item anyway...the Conrad Commission proposal (and Obama's similar commission alternative proposal) that paints a big red target on Medicare and Social Security for gutting and cutting. They are trying to get this shit passed and created so they can try to avoid taking the heat for destroying the two most popular government programs EVER CREATED.

They want to force granny to eat cat food and live in a cardboard box. They want to privatize social security. They want to means test social security so it can easily be killed off later entirely as "welfare".

Focus on the real matters not the bogus.

Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on January 21, 2010 at 1:04 PM | PERMALINK

You honestly think HCR is the only thing that the Senate was going to consider this year? Do you think, honestly, that now the Democrats only have 57 + 1 + Lieberman votes out of 100, that they're just going to close shop and NEVER MAKE ANY DECISIONS EVER AGAIN?

No, I think that no HC bill that came out of conference was ever going to pass the Senate, and neither was any other bill on any other topic that we take up. That was true before we lost the MA Senate race. We never had 60.

Nothing of significance on the Democratic agenda was going to/now will get through the Senate. A few scattered bills will pass, but they'll either be meaningless or take us backward.

Posted by: shortstop on January 21, 2010 at 1:06 PM | PERMALINK

DEMOCRATIC and INDEPENDENT voters of MA said FUCK OFF by voting AGAINST Coakley specifically because of the Senate bill!

MA has a reasonable healthcare law. They were concerned national healthcare would result in less for MA. I've got mine jack, who cares about you.

That plus Coakley was a terrible campaigner.

Posted by: fusion on January 21, 2010 at 1:07 PM | PERMALINK

41% of those saying they didn't approve of the health care bill didn't know why they didn't approve. That's the problem. A bunch of fear, uncertainty, and doubt sown by people on the left designed to hijack the senate bill so some miracle could come along and append the public option and a fix on the excise tax. Oh, and get rid of the mandate, despite the fact that a mandate is the only way to make a rule against rescissions and no preexisting conditions work. Fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Coming from both left and right. So that reform didn't have a home. No one was supporting it.

How do you sell this allegedly horrible Senate bill? It will (eventually) mean you never have to worry about losing insurance. It will mean you can't be refused insurance for a preexisting condition. It will mean fewer people using the ER for routine illnesses. Free preventive care. 30,000 people won't die every year. That's what it means. And we can bring in fixes, like a national exchange, public option, adjustment to the excise tax, or a medicare buy-in, through reconciliation once it's passed.

Posted by: alex on January 21, 2010 at 1:08 PM | PERMALINK

If they can't pass this it's time for both Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid to retire. Immediately.

Posted by: Allan on January 21, 2010 at 1:08 PM | PERMALINK

pls and Praeder (though perhaps with a little excess on the swears, dude), both got it, and I'll say it well: you can't get the Senate bill through the House. The votes aren't there. Even more insane is "pass the Senate bill and then pass corrections to it (or vice versa)." If you can't get a "merged" bill through the Senate now, you can't get that "revisions" bill through either. Does anyone, seriously, think any Republican would see any value in "revising" the Senate bill after all that's happened?

There is about one way forward, and that's reaching out to Snowe, Collins and maybe even Brown and asking if anything is doable. Is there a smaller, more focused set of changes that can get the 2 or 3 Republican votes you'd need? If not - and it may very well be that doomed - then there's no bill. If there's a compromise to be found on a smaller bill... they'll take it.

But the big bill is dead. Dead, dead, dead.

Posted by: weboy on January 21, 2010 at 1:09 PM | PERMALINK

Hard dose of reality

Two choices:

1) You passed this flawed bill and hope to fix it later.

2) You let this moment slip away and get neither HCR nor a climate bill nor re-elected.

There aren't any alternatives to these two choices.
Believing there are other ways is chasing a mirage in the hot hell of DC...
These are the dynamics.
It is a no-brainer:

Pass. The. Bill.


Posted by: koreyel on January 21, 2010 at 1:11 PM | PERMALINK

They all take their marching orders from the same monied corporations.

there was never an intention to actually pass any healthcare reform bill.

Posted by: Saint Zak on January 21, 2010 at 1:13 PM | PERMALINK

weboy: A "Revisions" bill in the Senate would take 50 votes. No Republicans (or Centrist Dems) required.

Posted by: TonyB on January 21, 2010 at 1:14 PM | PERMALINK

MOST of the Demo voters who staid home in droves in the MA election did so because they did NOT support the senate bill (but DID support a public option).

MA people do NOT like their own state's disastrous and failing Romneycare system. They pay MORE than they did before Romneycare and get less. Their co-pays are higher now as are their deductibles.

That fact said, they DID support the public option (go figure if all they were doing was saying "we got our healthcare so fuck you"). You people still beating the dead horse (senate insurance company sellout bill) are corporatists through and through. You should all LOVE the SCOTUS opinion today that allows uncontrolled corporate funding of campaign messages. Your buttfuck lover corporations are now given free run to REALLY stick it to people now by purchasing elections outright and then forcing people to buy over priced insurance and paying jacked up premiums, deductibles, and co-pays...only THEN to be dropped for being sick.

This fucking site has become a one-trick pony to the septic tank of DEAD corporate-loving ideas.

The VOTERS have spoken and they say FUCK YOU and your forced private insurance.

Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on January 21, 2010 at 1:15 PM | PERMALINK

"Kill this bill, primary Obama and move on. We need real leadership now -- especially now that the Supreme Court has given the green light to a corporate take over of the country (not that it hasn't happen already as witnessed by the way the WH caved to corporate interests on health care)."

Primary Obama? Primary him with who? Dennis Kucinich? You don't want real leadership, you want purity. And you will never, ever get it.

The joke is that the same people who claim to want leadership want to fight over every single detail. They want everyone to have individual say over policy. Every interest group gets a veto. "I want the public option! let's go primary anyone who doesn't want to destroy the bill over the public option!" The only person that can give you the type of leadership you want is a)someone with dictatorial power or b) someone with no substantive power at all.

Posted by: alex on January 21, 2010 at 1:16 PM | PERMALINK

Tony (and others) - revising the Senate bill, or doing the "start over" approach of piggy backing some elements into reconciliation is a complete non starter. Any move in that direction, and you've guaranteed disastrous midterm elections. Disastrous. Not gonna happen.

Posted by: weboy on January 21, 2010 at 1:18 PM | PERMALINK

Alex:
How do you sell this allegedly horrible Senate bill? It will (eventually) mean you never have to worry about losing insurance.

Yeah, it will mean you CAN'T be without private for-profit insurance because IT'S ILLEGAL and you WILL be penalized if you refuse! It will mean that even with your premiums going to the moon (no controls in the bill), your deductible can and WILL go to the moon too (no controls at all in the bill) AND your co-pays will skyrocket (no controls AT ALL IN THE BILL). It will mean that even though you are forced to have insurance, you STILL can't get healthCARE because you cannot afford it and STILL get to go medically bankrupt (BECAUSE THERE ARE NO CONTROLS AT ALL IN THE BILL TO PREVENT THIS).

Yeah baby. THAT sounds GREAT!

Sheesh. Get over it already. The bill is dead. Dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead.

Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on January 21, 2010 at 1:19 PM | PERMALINK

weboy: A "Revisions" bill in the Senate would take 50 votes. No Republicans (or Centrist Dems) required.

Is that correct? A conference bill is not subject to cloture? If that's the case, why all the hoopla about Coakley's loss killing HC?

Posted by: shortstop on January 21, 2010 at 1:19 PM | PERMALINK

You know what's insane? A consistent inability to recognize and adjust to reality. Now, sometimes a little insanity is actually helpful. But only a little. More than a little and you just look freakin' retahded.

Posted by: Seb on January 21, 2010 at 1:20 PM | PERMALINK

koreyel

Exactly how does passing the senate bill get anybody reelected?

Democrats are in a shitty place because they sold out to their contributors in the insurance industry. Shit, Lieberman sleeps with an insurance company lobbyist. Lots of them do. At least in Lieberman's case he is married to her.

Shortstop is right, but the way, we never really had 60 votes.

Posted by: Ron Byers on January 21, 2010 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINK

What I take from Pelosi's confession is that many Democratic congressmen are scared to vote for health care for fear of being voted out of office come November. For those Congressmen, don't be such wimps! You're not going to be rewarded at the polls for being wimps. Changing your mind in the face of stiffer opposition confirms that you are not someone who sticks up for his principles, and you shouldn't be re-elected.

I think that Pelosi should just go ahead and have the vote. Let the chips fall where they may. Some people will lose because they voted against it, some will lose because they voted for it. Force the wimps to take a stand, one way or the other.

Posted by: Daryl McCullough on January 21, 2010 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINK

Doesn't matter. It's all over. The US as a Democracy (For the People, By the People) ended today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/us/politics/22scotus.html?hp

Posted by: FredF on January 21, 2010 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

Pass. The. Damn. Bill.
—Steve Benen

The Carpetbagger speaks for me.

Posted by: JC on January 21, 2010 at 1:24 PM | PERMALINK

Wrote my congressman this morning.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=261496736325

Posted by: jeremy on January 21, 2010 at 1:24 PM | PERMALINK

I miss Kevin Drum. When he was here, though he wasn't right all the time (too often he is a corporate Dem go-along-to-get-along type) he knew when to shut up. He knew when it was time to move on.

He didn't keep railing on a failed issue after it was dead and buried.

Between Stevie the one-issue-corporatist and that similar dolt Josh Marshall, it gets tiresome to keep reading DLC talking points and DLC positions again and again and again...just like the discredited MSM.

Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on January 21, 2010 at 1:24 PM | PERMALINK

All this change is making me mad, weary, and depressed. The f word is flying freely. And my wife told me to lay off the blogs for a while. Shit, are we having fun yet?

Posted by: lou on January 21, 2010 at 1:27 PM | PERMALINK

Shortstop: I assume weboy was talking about a reconciliation bill that would amend the current Senate bill. He wasn't. I guess that isn't a pure enough process for improvement.

Conference reports can be filibustered.

Posted by: TonyB on January 21, 2010 at 1:27 PM | PERMALINK

Why wait until 50? Have Medicare buy-in open to everyone who wants to buy in. That's the free market way. If companies think it's more effective for them to insure their employees through medicare - let them buy in. The only thing you have to haggle over at that point is when a paying medicare user qualifies for it for free.

Let the opposition tell us how bad medicare is. Good luck - that's the only thing the voters have really shown a love for any way.

Repeat this over and over.

Posted by: royalblue_tom on January 21, 2010 at 1:28 PM | PERMALINK

She does lack the votes. And she needs help. This is Obama's task. He's the leader of the Democratic Party and this is wholly a Democratic initiative. If he thinks he can get something without going over there and cajoling and confronting these people, the whole thing will be a failure. The Democratic majorities will be toast, and he'll be a lame duck president before he ever runs for reelection. And, frankly, if he doesn't have the balls for doing that hard work, he won't deserve reelection.

Posted by: rich on January 21, 2010 at 1:28 PM | PERMALINK

Stupak & Friends are not going to vote for the non-Stupakked Senate version. Pelosi is right, the votes are not there.

Posted by: Paul on January 21, 2010 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

I like the incremental approach. There was so much in the healthcare bill that it was too much for the average joe to understand so they rely on the lies they hear on TV and radio. If you pass each portion incrementally, it will take longer, but each section would be approved on it's merit, how is an "R" not going to vote for getting rid of "pre-existing conditions"? Add a mandate to it so our rates don't increase, but explain it one step at a time. It wasn't perfect, but there was a lot of good in the bills so make the R's tell the American people why they are against each piece of it. Aso everyone understands and televise it on C-SPAN too.

Posted by: Rachel on January 21, 2010 at 1:31 PM | PERMALINK

To follow up on Paul, there's a nightmare scenario for all concerned: What if Senate Republicans offer to let "The Senate version + Stupak" go through? Would Pelosi take that deal? And how ruinous would that be for liberal coalitions?

Posted by: weboy on January 21, 2010 at 1:34 PM | PERMALINK

Sorry Rachel, a mandate to buy private insurance will, once again, be unacceptable to the MAJORITY of the populace.

You people don't accept hard reality:
65% of those polled supported the healthcare bill when it had a public option or medicare buy-in. A virtual supermajority. As soon as the public option was removed but the mandate remained, with a penalty for NOT playing, support dropped into the 40s. Among Republican voters the removal of the public option caused support to drop by 26%. AMONG REPUBLICAN VOTERS!

And here you are once more trying to cram what the people CLEARLY do not want: forced purchase of PRIVATE insurance without a public OPTION. That is a non-starter and as unacceptable now as it was then and as it ALWAYS will be.

Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on January 21, 2010 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

The 50-and-up Medicare compromise would be a really bad idea. It was fine when it was just part of the overall package, but for anyone under 50: no health care reform to you?

If you want to start a business: Still stuck with the same shitty health care system.

If you lose your job and get sick: Still stuck with the same shitty health care system. Lose the savings that you need when you retire.

But hey, as long as the Baby Boomers have their government health care, that's all that matters, right?

Posted by: wildone on January 21, 2010 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

Perhaps they are thinking clearly and realize the bill is so crappy that it'll be a problem not a success and they don't trust the Senate or the WH to make it better after the fact. I wouldn't trust that to happen. What passes is what we'll be stuck with for a long time.

Posted by: Jay on January 21, 2010 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK

Have we spent our tax-dollars wisely on our elected, so called, leaders?

Think of the time spent over the past year on this bill by our legislators.

I'd like to think we could have performanced-based pay for their efforts.

Now we learn that corporations can spend freely on future election efforts.

No, we do not have a functioning democracy.

It's as if a political earthquake (since Tuesday night, and an aftershock from the SCOTUS today) has caused massive fissures in our very trust in government, no longer by the people, for the people.

Posted by: Tom Nicholson on January 21, 2010 at 1:39 PM | PERMALINK

wildone: This was proposed as a good start by Klein and it would be a MAJOR improvement.

As for those under 50...if you lose your job you fall into the 200% of poverty level (very likely) so you would be in Medicaid. If you have your job and insurance, you get to keep it. All that is necessary at that point is to pass a law banning discrimination against pre-existing conditions and recision.

The Medicare buy-in is a GOOD idea and would, ultimately, lead where it should anyway: single payer. Same with the Medicaid part at the bottom.

YOU want (apparently) to protect insurance company profits and CEO bonuses above all else.

Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on January 21, 2010 at 1:39 PM | PERMALINK

Paul, it is NOT just Stupidpak and friends. It is a host of liberal/progressive House members who signed a pledge to NOT support any bill without a public option (a VERY popular component to the entire voting population). They are on the side of angels.

Those opposed to the public option are...corporations. That's pretty much it. Non-voting entities wanted the public option removed while 65% of the voting population WANTED it. And you folks think that 65% of the populace should be ignored and corporations honored.

THAT'S a winning strategy if you are a GOPer or a DINO.

Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on January 21, 2010 at 1:45 PM | PERMALINK

My message to President Obama (and my U.S. Rep.)

"Mr. President, thousands of Americans are going to die THIS YEAR because they don't have health insurance. Why is it more important for you to please Sen. Snowe than it is to save some of those lives by passing a bill that she doesn't agree with?"

Posted by: Bart on January 21, 2010 at 1:46 PM | PERMALINK

Herding depressed cats

Ron Byers,
About the bill boosting democratic reelection possibilities:

A lot of time and political capital went into getting us to this moment on the brink. To come away empty-handed now, after all that, can only deflate the Democratic party. The zeitgeist that follows will be simple: They are losers who couldn't get it done even with a large majority. The hard left will promptly detach and squander their votes on third party candidates. The center-left won't turn out in the midterms. You think it's tough to herd cats? Try herding depressed cats. What about the huge block of undecideds? The great unwashed middle will go where the lights are brightest: Vive la republicans!

To fail now sets in motion a dirty depressing snowball rolling downhill to one-term presidency. After which, ajaye at 12:45 upthread strikes perhaps the sharpest clearest view of what awaits us.

Posted by: koreyel on January 21, 2010 at 1:49 PM | PERMALINK

Call the Senate's bluff. Don't pass the fucking thing. The Senate bill is crap, crafted by compromise with corrupt Senators simply to get to sixty votes.

This should highlight the need to scrap the filibuster not to swallow their stupid 'product'.

If we threaten to end the filibuster, who knows? perhaps the White People's Party might think twice about using it on every fucking bill. Hell, when they made the same threat we were afraid to filibuster right wing Supreme Court nominees for Christ's sake! Supreme Court nominees! You have to make at least a credible threat to do away with the god damn thing otherwise majority rule is out the window. Haven't we just demonstrated that?

Posted by: SW on January 21, 2010 at 1:51 PM | PERMALINK

Congresspeople want to get re-elected. They just watched Obama put his own rep and the White House machine behind Coakley and not deliver the votes in MA. From their perspective the White House has no coattails. If it can't deliver in MA then there is no way it can deliver in Indiana or Ohio or Nevada or any southern state.

A President's power over congress lies in his percieved ability to deliver votes. Obama can strong arm all he wants but in their minds he longer has the power to back it up. He's done. The Democrats in congress will not take direction from him. They will be crushed in November, a further signal in their minds that Obama can't deliver.

For the next three years Obama's biggest opponents in congress will come from his own party.

Posted by: thorin-1 on January 21, 2010 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINK

What House Democrats need to realize is that while they may face a tough re-election fight is they vote for the bill, they will face an even tougher re-election fight if they don't (because the Democratic base will stay home in droves).

Posted by: mfw13 on January 21, 2010 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINK

Healthcare reform was taillights as soon as the Democrats signalled they were willing to be bullied, by removing the public option from consideration. It was about the only thing the stunned voters could understand, and was therefore an excellent rallying point. Allowing outright lies, such as the suggestion it was going to cost everybody more money, to be broadcast without any stronger response than headshakes and rueful chuckles only helped the Republicans sell the meme that they were looking out for Joe Sixpack while the Dems were trying to pull a fast one. Not waiting in the parking lot and beating Rush Limbaugh to death with Glen Beck's skull was a strategic mistake of staggering dimensions.

You'd think that giving somebody a giant wedgie wouldn't be fun when they don't put up any fight at all, but apparently it is.

The electorate will realize, shortly after the Republicans get their hands on the keys again, that it was a horrible mistake. As usual. You'd think that in the world's wealthiest and (allegedly) most powerful country, you'd be able to get 50 nor so firing neurons together in the same state at the same time.

Looking at it another way, stupid people deserve leadership by the unscrupulous. For the wilfully stupid who keep making the same mistake over and over, it's like a law.

Posted by: Mark on January 21, 2010 at 1:59 PM | PERMALINK

CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVE!

Posted by: TR on January 21, 2010 at 2:00 PM | PERMALINK

Praedor, putting things in all Caps doesn't make them true. Your frequent insistence that there is no cost containment in the Senate bill is flat out wrong. It's not about honoring corporations, you child, it's about getting a foothold. If nothing passes now, nothing will pass next year. Or, probably, for the next ten years. 40,000 people will die every year. By stamping your feet and saying everyone who disagrees with you is a corporatist, you're demanding a situation where the number of medical bankruptcies will rise. Medical costs will rise. But you wanted your public option, so I guess you can console yourself with the fact that you were right and all the corporatist were wrong while everything continues to go down the drain.

Posted by: alex on January 21, 2010 at 2:02 PM | PERMALINK

Praedor Atrebates: As for those under 50...if you lose your job you fall into the 200% of poverty level (very likely) so you would be in Medicaid.

That's after you turn over your house, your bank accounts, your car and every saleable asset. You don't get Medicaid just for losing your job and not having money coming in.

For someone who rants all day long about other people denying reality, you continually demonstrate you have no idea what you're talking about.

Posted by: Philip on January 21, 2010 at 2:03 PM | PERMALINK

Pass the bill.

Posted by: pol on January 21, 2010 at 2:16 PM | PERMALINK

"Stupak & Friends are not going to vote for the non-Stupakked Senate version. Pelosi is right, the votes are not there."

If that truly is the case, then they should go the Ezra Klein route. Doing that would be quick and confer an immediate benefit. Then they can use it as a starting point in the next round.

I don't buy the "HCR won't be revisited for 10-20 years" BS. This problem is now directly impacting too many people for it to sit unattended, especially if the pre-existing conditions issue isn't solved.

Posted by: bdop4 on January 21, 2010 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

Poster-ized

Nastly slam dunk @ Realist @ 1:51 PM

Posted by: koreyel on January 21, 2010 at 2:23 PM | PERMALINK

"This really is crazy. The finish line is right there."

Yes but the finish line in question is for the special olympics and not all of us aspire to be retards.

There is no excuse for passing this bill, not when, in every single respect, it is a disaster for the US and the dems.

You really need to learn the term "cut your losses."

Posted by: tlaloc on January 21, 2010 at 2:25 PM | PERMALINK

Just so everyone knows, Praedor is hopelessly confused and you will be less informed after reading his posts. If your health care premiums are more than 8% of your income, you are exempt from the mandate. Anyone who doesn't know that shouldn't be discussing health care reform.

Posted by: David on January 21, 2010 at 2:27 PM | PERMALINK
Jesus you people are fucking MORONS. The senate bill is DEAD DEAD DEAD. It ain't happening. It's over. It is DONE.

Nobody is claiming otherwise, moron.

No liberal/progressive House member in their ethical and right mind will give a corporate handout to insurance companies after the DEMOCRATIC and INDEPENDENT voters of MA said FUCK OFF by voting AGAINST Coakley specifically because of the Senate bill!

Since you have no data to support this assertion, why should we take it seriously? You have no clue as to why the Massachusetts voters voted the way they did, particularly since no exit polls were taken.

All that passing THAT bill will do is ENSURE a massive fail by the Democrats in the November elections. That. Is. A. Fact.

No, actually, it's not. It's an opinion. And an unsupported and ill-informed opinion at that.

Another FACT. Objective and inarguable: the PUBLIC OPTION was what made the original healthcare bill popular.

Again, this is not even close to being a "FACT," nor is it "objective and inarguable." It is nothing more than an opinion. And, once again, an unsupported and ill-informed one.

You FUCKTARDS cannot accept reality. The PEOPLE who matter (that would NOT be you who want to steamroll the people) DO NOT WANT THE BILL.

LOL... The people who matter, huh? Tsk, tsk, such an elitist. As for your assertion, well, that, too is not a fact, nor is it even remotely close to being true.

FUCK YOU ASSHOLES! It isn't happening. Get the fuck over it. NOW.

We *know* it isn't happening, moron. It's what happens next that's the issue.

Posted by: PaulB on January 21, 2010 at 2:30 PM | PERMALINK
I don't buy the "HCR won't be revisited for 10-20 years" BS. This problem is now directly impacting too many people for it to sit unattended, especially if the pre-existing conditions issue isn't solved.

So? It has directly impacted that many people for at least the past thirty years when I first read a Newsweek article about the health care "crisis". Why are you assuming that the "nothing is going to happen" meme is "BS" when the only changes in the political environment have been wholly negative and against passage? Have the Republicans become any more reasonable? Are the real solutions any less palatable to the monied institutions and lobbyists? Have the Blue Dog Democrats become any less idiotic? Have the Democrats, in general, shown any signs of real courage? Are we going to get more and better Democrats in this year's election?

Posted by: PaulB on January 21, 2010 at 2:34 PM | PERMALINK

The Senate bill, flawed as it is, will save lives. The Senate bill will save people from bankruptcy. The Senate bill will reduce health care premiums. The Senate bill will eliminate denials based on pre-existing conditions, recission, and annual/lifetime coverage caps. The Senate bill will reduce the deficit (i.e., it saves more than it costs).

Call or write your Congressman or Congresswoman and tell them to pass the Senate bill. If he or she is a progressive, tell them that it'll save lives and it's flaws can be improved through reconciliation. If he or she is a Blue Dog, tell them that it reduces the deficit.

Pass the bill!

Posted by: Chris on January 21, 2010 at 2:39 PM | PERMALINK

I agree that the statement that health care won't be revisited for 10-20 years is BS. Of course the reason I think it's BS is that it won't ever be taken up again. When are conditions going to be more favorable? When are the majorities going to be larger?

Posted by: David on January 21, 2010 at 2:39 PM | PERMALINK

MORE LIKELY:
She lacks the insurance industry campaign contributions.

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on January 21, 2010 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

Would parliamentary procedures allow Senate "patch" legislation to be passed on a provisional basis? (ie., it only effects legislation that hasn't been passed in the house yet).

In other words, maybe one way to let cooler heads prevail, and placate House liberals, is for the Senate to quickly put together and pass (via reconciliation) a "patch" bill in advance of a House vote. That way, there's no "Lucy removing the football" fears on the part of House Democrats.

Posted by: Jasper on January 21, 2010 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

It's like the pedaled the bike to the top of the hill, and now they're ready to walk it down.

Posted by: Roddy McCorley on January 21, 2010 at 2:48 PM | PERMALINK

PaulB there is polling data supporting the notion that Coakley lost for two main reasons: first, she sucked as a campaigner, and second, most MA voters hate the Senate Bill (or at least what they perceive to be the Senate Bill)lacking the public option.

Interestingly the same polls demonstrated that the MA electorate still likes Obama and thinks he is doing a good job over all. The tea baggers are getting less traction in MA than they want you to believe.

The Democrats have done a horrible job of explaining why the Senate bill is in their best interests. That might be because they are bad at explaining anything. It might be that they are shut out of the national conversation by the corporate elite running the media. It might be that large parts of the bill really suck. It could be all of the above.

Posted by: Ron Byers on January 21, 2010 at 3:02 PM | PERMALINK

Sorry Alex, your "foothold" is useless. EVERY change to the bill to make it "better" (by adding a public option OR removing the mandate to buy for-profit insurance) would require 60 votes. Not a single "change" would make it because there would not be 60 votes. WE would be stuck with YOUR corporate profit protection scheme with no ability to obtain relief.

Let me spell it out one letter at a time so even you will understand: t h e s e n a t e c o r p o r a t e p r o f i t p r o t e c t i o n s c h e m e i s d e a d

Write those out on a sheet of paper and work with spacing and such. Eventually the obvious will hit you in the face and the truth will set you free. You corporate shill.

Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on January 21, 2010 at 3:12 PM | PERMALINK

David and others. THe notion that this is it or never again (or not for 20 years) is CRAP.

Let's see. It was LESS than a generation ago that healthcare was taken up by Clinton. I was there. I remember it. You dorks seem to have yet to be born or some such since you seem to forget that it was much less than 20 years to forever since the last time a shot was made at healthcare reform.

With the proper failure of the corporate giveaway bill in the senate, the next time will be no longer than the last time...or you believe in magic and universal cycles that are beyond the ken and control of men. Healthcare comes up again when the people demand it. Not before, not after. It will be within another 12 years or so that the next BIG attempt is made if no incremental changes are made. If incremental changes are made with the proper demise of the senate atrocity and corporate sellout, then it will be an ongoing and constant process for 20 years.

Posted by: Praedor Atrebates on January 21, 2010 at 3:17 PM | PERMALINK

Remember not to listen to anything Praedor says, he's colossally uninformed, or wants everyone else to be. This bill contains many useful pieces, and while it's not perfect, it's a vast improvement over the status quo.

Posted by: David on January 21, 2010 at 3:19 PM | PERMALINK

Yes but the finish line in question is for the special olympics and not all of us aspire to be retards.

Classy, Tlaloc. So very, very classy.

Posted by: Cousin of a "retard" on January 21, 2010 at 3:35 PM | PERMALINK

Praedor, we get that you're a very, very angry boy.

We also get that you're humiliatingly uninformed on almost every topic you pick up.

We even get that you're not that bright.

What we don't get is why you don't use your VA mental health benefits.

Posted by: Philip on January 21, 2010 at 3:41 PM | PERMALINK

Why are you assuming that the "nothing is going to happen" meme is "BS" when the only changes in the political environment have been wholly negative and against passage? Have the Republicans become any more reasonable? Are the real solutions any less palatable to the monied institutions and lobbyists? Have the Blue Dog Democrats become any less idiotic? Have the Democrats, in general, shown any signs of real courage? Are we going to get more and better Democrats in this year's election?

Add to this list: Are there not even more draconian "emergency" or "temporary" responses a Republican Congress (hell, a Democratic Congress) could make to the further disintegration of the system? Say, slashing Medicaid/Medicare, allowing hospitals to withhold emergency care from the uninsured, letting insurers congregate in one regulation-free state and ignore the regulations in the states in which they do business?

There are many, many ways this could get worse, and only a fool would assume that the people will definitely be able to rise up and achieve single payer "if things get bad enough." Especially when the SC just gave away our electoral system to the corporations. As we have learned, dumbshits will buy anything if it's spun as patriotic and godly hatred of their fellow citizens.

Posted by: shortstop on January 21, 2010 at 3:51 PM | PERMALINK

But hey, as long as the Baby Boomers have their government health care, that's all that matters, right?

Never mind the death panels. Soylent Green is People.

Posted by: osama_been_forgotten on January 21, 2010 at 4:34 PM | PERMALINK

Jesus Christ, Steve, Pelosi is the Speaker, not the dictator. She's only counting votes, and I'd say she's a hell of a lot better at it than Obama and Emanuel. Christ Steve, get a life !

Posted by: rbe1 on January 21, 2010 at 4:38 PM | PERMALINK

Once again, folks. The hard slog was over as soon as the Senate passed its bill. We are an hour away from a new law that will immensely benefit millions of people. Pass. The. Bill. 51 Senators can do a lot of fixing. Maybe we can still get Optional Medicare.

Posted by: Keeping Track on January 21, 2010 at 6:14 PM | PERMALINK

I think that Speaker Pelosi is right: she isn't going to be able to get the votes necessary to pass the Senate bill.

1. When the House put together their own bill, Pelosi was barely able to get it passed by a very small number of votes. (6 votes?) The Senate bill is deeply flawed, and a number of House members are not going to risk their political futures on such a bill.

2. Members of the House can see the public opinion polls that say healthcare reform in the abstract is reasonably popular, but the specific ideas that are on the table are not popular at all. The polls in Massachusetts showed that more voters were against the existing bills than supported them by 10-15%. House members know that if can't sell the Senate bill in Massachusetts, you're in real trouble.

3. Many House members are from conservative districts, and they know that they are at a disadvantage to begin with. If you count the Republican votes and the Democrats from conservative districts, you end up with a razor thin margin. That opens the door for House members who would or could vote for the bill to insist on generous "bribes" for their districts. That is what happened in the Senate. The result will be potentially hundreds of members wanting billions of dollars each in concessions (up front) before they'll agree to vote for the bill. That is unseemly and will raise public anger even more.

Now, it may be true that Pelosi can't do it, but maybe someone else can. It is fairly obvious that the Democrats have very poor leadership - everywhere. However, the Brown-Coakley election has a lot of House members worrying about keeping their jobs. Some may demand that they be willing to put their jobs on the line for a principle, but that's hard to do. Being a member of the House is a great job, and good politicians are always careful about picking their fights.

If the battle is to pass the Senate healthcare bill in the House, a lot of House Democrats are just not willing to die trying to take that hill.

Bottom line: the Democratic leadership team took much too long writing the bills, and the opportunity is lost.

Posted by: kevino on January 21, 2010 at 6:38 PM | PERMALINK

Just my addition to the pile already being dumped onto Praetor:

The root of the word "progressive" is "progress", which is defined as movement forward. There is no requirement for the amount of forward movement, simply that there IS forward movement. The Senate bill, with all its faults, fits that definition.
Ergo (that's latin, Praetor), Pass The Damn Bill!

Posted by: Doug on January 21, 2010 at 7:07 PM | PERMALINK

It's all fine to say Dem leadership moved to slow, but all that has to happen is for the House to pass the bill and be done with it. Dragging this out any longer will be negative, whether or not they pass a bill, whether or not it's a better or worse bill.

Posted by: David on January 21, 2010 at 7:26 PM | PERMALINK

Really, really, really discouraging.

Congressional Democrats need to realize they must to put the ugly business of negotiating the major bill BEHIND them. Pass the Senate bill and fine tune it through other legislation.

The Massachusetts Democrats didn't work hard enough to organize and they lost. That's the lesson from this. You run hard. When people are out of work, you run very very hard. That's what Brown did.

Heavens I see it now... Brown versus Obama in 2012...

Posted by: clever girl on January 21, 2010 at 9:25 PM | PERMALINK

"Classy, Tlaloc. So very, very classy."

Not a problem. For the record I have a cousin who is downs syndrome as well. Guess what? She's an idiot who does nothing but stares slack jawed at the tv all day. I don't appreciate the dem leadership and anonymous blog assholes trying to take me down to her level.

Posted by: Tlaloc on January 21, 2010 at 9:48 PM | PERMALINK

Did she ever fucking think of maybe FIGHTING TO GET THE VOTES? That would mean a lot of arm-twisting, a lot of promises to make major changes in reconciliation, and most of all getting Obama to get off his fucking ass and stop all the Mr. Spock bullshit and use the bully pulpit for all it's worth.

Posted by: Anon on January 21, 2010 at 10:54 PM | PERMALINK

"PELOSI SAYS SHE LACKS THE VOTES"

What a shocker, real Democrats think the Senate bill smells like dead politicians.

Posted by: Joe Friday on January 21, 2010 at 11:02 PM | PERMALINK

No Joe, real Democrats realize it's the Senate bill or nothing. And if the real Democrats in the House won't pass it and refuse to govern, what good are they?

Posted by: David on January 21, 2010 at 11:31 PM | PERMALINK

Lacks the votes? Nah--lacks the stones. Figuratively, that is. Or, maybe it's just that Pelosi and most others in leadership positions lack the capacity for fancy footwork. Where are Henry Clay and Stephen Douglas when they could be useful?

Posted by: docdave on January 21, 2010 at 11:58 PM | PERMALINK

Pelosi lacks a spine. Worst House Speaker. Ever.

Posted by: johnnymags on January 22, 2010 at 8:42 AM | PERMALINK

Wow, lot of brainless attacks on Pelosi here from the magical thinking crowd. God save us from the most uninformed yet hot-tempered sections of the left. They truly are as ignorant as any random teabagger.

Posted by: Allen on January 22, 2010 at 9:16 AM | PERMALINK




 

 

Read Jonathan Rowe remembrance and articles
Email Newsletter icon, E-mail Newsletter icon, Email List icon, E-mail List icon Sign up for Free News & Updates

Advertise in WM



buy from Amazon and
support the Monthly