The President should sit down with Sen. Snowe and talk policy ON CAMERA.

Now that we know that the Dems have learned absolutely nothing from the debacle over the last two weeks, the question is what do progressives do now? The Dems as a party have proven themselves as totally incompetent, but I still support a progressive agenda. Is supporting the Dems as just a bulwark against GOP stupidity the very best I can hope for?

I'd say that getting Snowe to say nonsense like this is a prerequisite to getting 50 votes for reconciliation.

Can you spell "Democrat", boys and girls?

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Good. I knew you could....

. . . the fact that Snowe and Baucus (among others) have even talked at all suggests senators are keeping a wide variety of options open. I'm not sure that's a good thing, necessarily, but it's preferable to letting health care reform die altogether.

The only way to get any Republican votes is to concede to the Republican's 41-59 "majority" and pass a health reform bill that doesn't accomplish anything but transfer taxpayer money to corporations.

The Senate bill is barely deserving of support, but can be fixed enough by reconciliation to become adequate. The longer the Democrats delay things, the less likely it is that anything will pass.

Surely the conservative Democrats from "red" districts have to recognize that they're the most vulnerable.

On the one hand, Snowe and Collins both have proved that they are liars and rather stupid, to boot. They have not been able to maintain a consistent story line because every time the Dems moved towards them they realized they would need a different story to excuse their failure to vote with the dems. That falls heavily on the balance against working with them. However, its also true that they appear to be absolutely shameless and unconscious of the moral and ethical problems with changing their minds/voting against positions they have previously taken. I believe Snowe just voted against Paygo, which she had previously supported. Consistency, therefore, will not be a problem. Neither woman will refuse to vote with the democrats on health care *just because she previously voted against them*. The trick will be in taking the fight straight to them at the local level. Obama and the dems should reach out to snowe and collins, and also run adds non stop in their communities: ads aimed at catholics who want health care for the poor. Ads aimed at independents and at democrats who are tired of seeing the president's policy initiatives downed by their own senators.

aimai

Many of the Democrats from red districts and states think that people will forget about HCR by November if it dies now. The only leverage those who really want to pass reform have is to pass the Senate bill "as is" and send it to Obama to sign. Snowe and Nelson et al will be all over making changes then. Can you imagine Nelson trying to defend his screw job on the rest of the country over the next few months? I give Reid credit for making the Democratic Senators do something they had no desire to do, vote for a HCR bill. Now Pelosi needs to wrap that sucker around their throats and choke them with it.

"The President should sit down with Sen. Snowe and talk policy ON CAMERA."

Awesome idea. Perfect for Comedy Central.I think the full bullshittiness of Snowe's quoted remarks would be obvious if we could see and hear her make them.
"...those things can happen so that it's not [so] breathtakingly expansive that [it] creates consternation by the American people..." Damn. Is she just a wrinkly old Sarah Palin?

And now Senate Dems are hoping to negotiate with her again?

The GOP and GOP-lite Senators (Blanche Lincoln, Bill Nelson, and Max Baucus) fear that a reconciliation bill will pass and are seeking to derail/delay it by engaging in yet another round of negotiations. Simple as that.

The reason it's Snowe and Collins are representing the GOP side is that their 'base' isn't as wingnutty as the other Senators and can afford to be seen in discussions with Democrats.

It is all a shell game designed to keep blowing smoke up the asses of the amerikan sheeple.

If/when 'Health Care Reform' is passed, it will be watered down to just another corporate welfare bill that can be sold to the sheeple as:

- Socialist interference in the free market (by the rethugs)
- A major win for the sheeple (by the dumbocraps)

Both will be lies. The loop holes (big enough to drive a fleet of Mack trucks thru) have already been identified by the health insurance corporations - who probably were big players in getting them put there.

The Obomination continues to prove that he is just another Clintonesque DLC/Rethug-lite. Continuing to have Rahm publicly sell out the progressives just makes it worse and to have Rahm telling progressives to STFU just makes it more infuriating.

For real change that you can believe in, either:
- Vote for Feingold/Sanders in 2012 (or)
- Change yourself out of this f*cked-up country

Maybe we should put this into the context of what has happened this week. Snowe could fiddle around and play games without consequences up til now, and decided to try it again yesterday.

However, Obama has had two homeruns this week. He has had two golden opportunities to prove that that he's working for the American people and that it's the Republicans who are obstructing.

I hope this "campaign mode" stuff continues. Obama sure makes Republicans look stupid.

One cannot help the feeling that Olympia Snowe is either bought-and-paid-for by insurance companies and/or the health-care-industry, or she is very, very stupid.

I kinda doubt the latter, but it's always possible that it's both, isn't it? With goopers, it almost always is both, it seems.

Let's say for the sake of argument that you are a Rethug strategist in league with the health care and drug cartels and your only objective is to deep-six HCR and you think the 2010 elections just might move the goal posts in your favor. Is there ANYTHING about this sudden new-found interest in further negotiations with the Rethugs that does NOT align with your goal? Might not even the prospect of further talks with Snowe Job distract the real prospect of passing the senate bill + reconciliation?

"Is supporting the Dems as just a bulwark against GOP stupidity the very best I can hope for?"

Yes.

The GOP and GOP-lite Senators (Blanche Lincoln, Bill Nelson, and Max Baucus) fear that a reconciliation bill will pass and are seeking to derail/delay it by engaging in yet another round of negotiations.

This is pretty clearly not what Baucus is about. Baucus made some horrific mistakes last year, but it wasn't because he nefariously doesn't want health care to pass.

Perhaps someone should mention to Snowe that the cost could be cut if they go for the public option, we would not have to buy all those mega mansions for insurance execs, or pay those mega salaries, but then she knows that, but she is not playing anyway.

Snowe's concern is that the Senate bill insufficiently bestows wealth and power on the for-profit insurance industry.

The Senate Democratic leadership will, I'm sure, bend over backwards address her concerns.

Meanwhile, "sensible liberals" will continue to blame the progressive Democrats in the House for the "failure" of health care reform.

John wrote: "Baucus made some horrific mistakes last year, but it wasn't because he nefariously doesn't want health care to pass."

"Mistakes"?

Baucus let the insurance corporations write the legislation. That wasn't a "mistake". That's what they pay him for.

"Nefarious" is certainly an inappropriate characterization, because it implies secrecy. Baucus's corruption was open and blatant.

The underlying problem is that the Senate is largely populated by bought-and-paid-for corporate stooges.

Not Gunna Happen. Did Dems learn nothing last time? The rope is secure around her neck, it gets yanked at the appropriate time. The only reason to negotiate with this level of congresscritter is to remove any remaining good thing in health insurance reform.

John on January 30, 2010 at 11:47 AM:

Baucus made some horrific mistakes last year, but it wasn't because he nefariously doesn't want health care to pass.

Yep, you misunderstood what I wrote.

I didn't say Baucus doesn't want health care to pass, I wrote that he didn't want the reconciliation bill to pass, or maybe even the Senate bill itself. This coincides with the Repubs' desire to stymie all Democratic efforts at legislation until the GOP can gain control of the Senate again.

Wasn't Snowe one of the Senators who said health care reform needed to slow down, it was going too fast?

Well, it's been a year. Just how slow does she think it should go? If it went any slower Einstein's Theory of Relativity would kick in and time would go backward.

Dont concentrate anger on Snowe, but rather those who would still negotiate expecting good faith from Snowe. Even Chamberlain recognized the futility of negotiating with intransigent opposition. More and more, Obama appears to be a hopeless case. The times no longer call for a Compromiser-In-Chief.

Indeed, Obama needs to continue with his homerun streak!

Further negotiations with Snowe and Collins at this time -- especially led by Sen.Baucus -- does not make sense.

But, getting mixed messages from Rham Emanual (sp?), Obama, Obama's campaign staff, and House leadership regarding whether HCR is alive or road kill also makes no sense.

How hard can it be to develop and enforce a coordinated message about HCR among supposedly politically astute Dems?

so are democrats really completely dumb as a stump. or is it that they think the American people are? republicans have done tremendously well since reagan betting on the stupidity, gullibility, manipulatability, and non-involvement of the American people in their own political process. I suppose it would not be surprising that democrats would think 'why not us too bet on the stupidity of Americans'. But if this is the strategy they've decided to pursue, they are sooooo terribly bad at it.

S. Snowe cannot be trusted in private, no Republican Senator can.

Force them into the open, such as the suggestion above to go on camera on live TV. It is the only way they can be forced to do what is right for the country instead of political gamesmanship.

Max Baucus talking to anyone except his doctor about healthcare is a scary thought. More Harkin and less Baucus.

Snowe jilted them before, after she yank their string and they jumped.
Why would they trust somebody who used and abused the before?

You know the story of the jackass and the two by four? It time to get the two by four and get the jackass to pay attention of what's going on here.

how about this health care?? http://www.typobounty.com/Funny/Health_Care_Reform.htm

"breathtakingly expansive"

Any time you insure 2/3 of the uninsured, it's going to be "breathtakingly expansive" regardless of the method used, isn't it?

If so, is Senator Snowe implying the only HCR she could support is one that would insure significantly fewer Americans?

Can she kindly tell us how to expand health care access without being expansive? Is there a target number of American who should stay uninsured so we're going sufficiently slowly for he gaggle of nervous Nellies?

Or is there terminology she'd prefer to use?

Could we instead "shrink the ranks of the uninsured"?

Would that help her sell compassion or is compassion the entire core of the anti-reform cadre's objections?