Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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February 9, 2010

ABOUT THOSE PROSECUTION STATISTICS.... As baseless Republican criticism of administration counter-terrorism policies has intensified, the president's team has come up with some pretty straightforward defenses. When the GOP gets hysterical over trying accused terrorists in the U.S. justice system, Obama administration officials remind folks that more than 300 terrorists have already gone through this exact same system -- with nary a complaint from Republicans.

In response, instead of adapting their argument to reality, GOP attack dogs have decided that the "more than 300" number has to be a trumped up number and the result of Obama administration deception.

Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), the Judiciary Committee's top Republican, called the number "unsubstantiated" and questioned its validity. Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) called the number "disingenuous." National Review called the figure "bogus." Dana Perino concluded, "The 300 number is as false as false gets."

So, who's right? Newsweek's Mark Hosenball sets the record straight.

Maybe it's time to stop some of the name calling over counter-terrorism policy and start checking the facts....

[I]t turns out that the Administration's claims do appear to be well-documented -- assuming that an official budget request sent to Congress by Bush's last attorney general was truthful itself.

Yes, the figure Republicans insist was manufactured by the Obama administration was actually published in the budget released by Bush's Justice Department. The document put the exact number of terrorists convicted through the civilian courts since 2001 at 319.

Indeed, George W. Bush actually used to boast about these numbers, delivering a speech in 2003 explaining that "more than 260 suspected terrorists have been charged in the United States courts, [and] more than 140 have already been convicted."

Of course, the point here isn't just to mock Republicans for being wrong about the nature of the data. That's amusing, but it's not enough.

The more meaningful angle here is that Bush/Cheney tried hundreds of terrorists in civilian American courts -- without incident -- and then imprisoned these terrorists on American soil. No one complained, no one freaked out, no one got hysterical. But now that Obama is keeping the same practice in place, it's the subject of a huge debate, and the same policy that was considered perfectly acceptable as part of a "war on terror" is now perceived as proof of weakness.

The question, then, for Republicans isn't, "Will you concede that the 300 figure is legit?" but rather, "Will you start being consistent in how you assess the exact same policy?"

Steve Benen 12:40 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (15)
 
Comments

All a good rational put-down and consistency challenge to the R's, Steve - let's all REM however that nimbly altering their "values" and standards for purposes of political gamesmanship is SOP for today's Republican Party. REM also many voters can't appreciate such logic, and then the ambivalence of a Media paralyzed by Broderism and corporate loyalties into not thinking it sporting to point out things like this.

Posted by: neil b on February 9, 2010 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINK

The question, then, for Republicans isn't, "Will you concede that the 300 figure is legit?" but rather, "Will you start being consistent in how you assess the exact same policy?"
---------------

And the answer is, No. To both. Followed by peals of laughter.

Posted by: The Republicans on February 9, 2010 at 12:48 PM | PERMALINK

they are being consistent - extremely consistent...if Obama is for it, they are against it.

Makes me wish Obama would make a forceful condemnation of Republican members of Congress committing suicide.

Posted by: Chesire11 on February 9, 2010 at 12:51 PM | PERMALINK

The Republican game plan ever since November 4, 2998, has been "whatever that Niii-ii-iii... that boy says, we say the opposite, whatever he wants we say no." That's the plan. They have no problem bringing things to a halt if it means bringing America back to being a White Man's Country. Anyone who can't see this probably still believes in the tooth fairy and expects the sun to rise in the west tomorrow.

Posted by: TCinLA on February 9, 2010 at 12:52 PM | PERMALINK

Old Fumble-Fingers strikes again: November 4, 2008

Memo to self: hit "preview" before "post."

Posted by: TCinLA on February 9, 2010 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

Until the Blitzers of the world call out the jack asses of the world, the Kyls, none of this will ever hit middle america where FOX Noise repeast ad nauseum the lie. CNN will be long gone (hopefully sooner than later) before the Courics and Kings call the liars what they are: Liars.

Posted by: stevio on February 9, 2010 at 12:57 PM | PERMALINK

Wolf Blitzer? Wolf "Star of David Underpants" Blitzer? That Wolf Blitzer?

Nothing wrong with defending Israel, when she's right. Wolf sometimes has a vision problem with that last part. He certainly has been known to take a jackass apart from time to time, but he's as bad as the next pompous I-know-everything-about-strategery hack when it comes to issues like the invasion of Iraq and the pounding of Lebanon, and as prone to giving an uncritical pass on such occasions.

Posted by: Mark on February 9, 2010 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINK

Slightly off topic, but Kyle truly is a special kind of jackass. He truly is in a class by himself.

Posted by: Scott F. on February 9, 2010 at 1:21 PM | PERMALINK

Steve, once again I can't figure out if you're being disingenuous or naive.

Most Americans don't remember the events of last week, let alone 3 or 4 or 5 years ago. Republican officials count on that.

There is no Republican Party platform, no stand on issues, no bottom line, no nothing, except obstruct and oppose. Obstruct and oppose.

And when the country gets tired of nothing getting accomplished, the Republicans and their lickspittles in the media will tell us all that Democrats can't govern!

And they'll get back in power and continue their looting of America.

Repeat as necessary until even third-world status is an enviable unreachable dream.

Posted by: Gummo on February 9, 2010 at 1:27 PM | PERMALINK

"Dana Perino concluded, "The 300 number is as false as false gets."

Dana Periono should keep in the back of her mind that when you talk out of your ass it gives you bad breath. Recall that this is the same Dana Perino who didn't know what the Cuban Missile Crisis was - a fairly significant moment in American and World history.

Posted by: Mark on February 9, 2010 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

I'm seeing the Groucho commercial- Rolling the list of Jobs projects and clipping each guy saying No! on the votes...

"don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway
Whatever it is, I'm against it!
No matter what it is
Or who commenced it
I'm against it!

Your proposition may be good
But let's have one thing understood
Whatever it is, I'm against it!
And even when you've changed it
Or condensed it
I'm against it!

I'm opposed to it
On general principles
I'm opposed to it!
(He's opposed to it)
(In fact, he says he's opposed to it!)

For months before my son was born
I used to yell from night to morn
"Whatever it is, I'm against it!"
And I've kept yelling
Since I first commenced it
"I'm against it!"

Posted by: JM on February 9, 2010 at 2:02 PM | PERMALINK

[I]t turns out that the Administration's claims do appear to be well-documented -- assuming that an official budget request sent to Congress by Bush's last attorney general was truthful itself. -- Newsweek

That being a *huge* "if" (since when can one safely assume that Bush's admin has been truthful about anything?), perhaps Perino knows what she's talking about when she says that the number is false.

Posted by: exlibra on February 9, 2010 at 2:26 PM | PERMALINK

things to know:
the Republican Strategy is to separate Truth from Fact - no matter what the policy is.

Patriotism, National Security and Treason are fungible.

Posted by: bcinaz on February 9, 2010 at 3:19 PM | PERMALINK

With all the political posturing in NY about how they can't handle the security cost and potential terrorist plots, I'd love to know how many of the 319 trials and convictions happened in New York.

Additionally, I like to knnow what the Bush appointed US attorneys who prosecuted those trials think about KSM's trial.

Posted by: Winkandanod on February 9, 2010 at 7:51 PM | PERMALINK

As a matter of fact, during the later part of the Bush administration there were a fair number of articles debunking the "terrorism-related" label on many of the domestic prosecutions that various US Attorney's offices brought. Some were just ordinary criminals, others were losers whose plots were risible. The Seas of David folks are what, almost 3% of that number just by themselves.

But of course anyone who made claims like that before 1/20/09 was a dirty f*cking hippy.

Posted by: paul on February 9, 2010 at 9:14 PM | PERMALINK
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