I like Thompson's comment, but I think that Obama realizes this is going to be won or lost in public opinion, and he's starting to assert himself. This seems to be a trend, including his appearance at the briefing today. Is it too late? I really don't think so. He can't accept that the situation that Thompson describes is going to happen. He needs to engage the America people in this debate or he will lose the debate. He/We have the issues on our side--that's why he was elected!--but he's going to have to take the Republicans on and I think Obama does realize this.

It is untenable in large part because Democrats absolutely refuse to call out Republicans on any of their antics, and because Democrats also refuse to actually govern with their given majority.

Yes, we say it far too often--but Democrats SHOULD take a page from the Republicans and threaten to change Senate rules to abolish the filibuster. And then dare the Republicans to block the jobs bill. Do that with enough fanfare and PR-hoopla and you have a winning combination.

Unfortunately, what we'll get is yet of whining about how having the biggest majorities in a generation leaves Democrats powerless to do anything.

I've been away, and suffer from pernicious naivete. Why, oh why don't the Dems really make the Reps filibuster? Y'know, cots, takeout food, someone having to talk until their vocal chords bleed...might just discourage them...

I think the only shot for a decent bill is for Obama to take the conversation out of Washington. He should basically abandon D.C. for two weeks and travel about the country, holding rallies, showing off stimulus projects and generally building a groundswell for approval. He should dominate the local news in key regions and force the national media to get out of Congress and confront the situation on the ground. The only chance some in the GOP will relent and let the Senate vote is if they see it as the better option for them personally. Make the so-called moderates sweat by framing the issue as a filibuster is the same as taking food off the American table. Sell it, dagnabbit.

In the real trenches of unemployment, the pain is staggering. I don't understand how the media is doing such a poor job of properly reporting the tragic reality that exist for job seekers. The truth is that they face intense competition for whatever job that does come available since there are so few jobs. Everyone is hurting and liquidating everything that they can sell at incredible losses just to make ends meet.

At some point in time, there will be nothing left to sell and at that point in time, the masses will become restless.

This current crisis sucks!

How is it that in Washington, being closed for snow storms means that more work gets done in town than during the snow jobs of legislating?

That's how ya define untenable.

You betcha.

thanks again, Massachusetts -- your welcome!

Republicans are not above filibustering a jobs bill in the midst of an unemployment crisis

Right -- but Democrats are above pointing out that Republicans are filibustering a jobs bill in the midst of an unemployment crisis.

iucaffiend and NHCt have the right idea. I can't imagine why anyone thinks a filibuster would be a winning issue for the Republicans if it looked like a filibuster, for crying out loud.

The media's too stupid to educate the public on its own, instead saying, "Democrats couldn't reach the required 60 votes...." So give the media a show it can't ignore.

I've been away, and suffer from pernicious naivete. Why, oh why don't the Dems really make the Reps filibuster? Y'know, cots, takeout food, someone having to talk until their vocal chords bleed...might just discourage them...

Because it doesn't work like that. As it turns out, nobody actually has to talk to uphold a filibuster and the famous filibuster that Strom Thurmond did many years ago was only because he chose to talk for twenty-four hours to prove a point. It wasn't required of him.

You can read about it here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/23/the-myth-of-the-filibuste_n_169117.html

Beyond that, I think Republicans would LOVE the attention. It would be like a telethon, with wingnuts flooding cash onto whoever is speaking at the moment. Maybe they'd invite Palin in for a guest lecture (at a cost of $100k, of course). I'm a bit surprised they haven't thought of this themselves.

Re:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/23/the-myth-of-the-filibuste_n_169117.html

So what? That would make it absolutely clear who's obstructing. Let C-SPAN play its music. It still illustrates in a way the media can't gloss over that it's Republicans holding the country hostage for their political gain.

The Republicans are sooo concerned about the budget deficit that their proposed budget will eliminate the deficit in only 50 years !

With respect to the filibuster, holds, etc., why can't Reid schedule the votes so that the Republicans have to miss fundraisers, visits to their districts, etc. ?

Again... make the GOP cast cloture votes against the job creation bill. Multiple times on multiple bills, if necessary.

Regarding NHCt's point above, they certainly should make the GOP keep calling for cloture votes and keep explicitly obstructing. Then the President should go on a tour, and at every stop there should be a sign at the podium: GREAT REPUBLICAN ECONOMIC FILIBUSTER: DAY [17] (or whatever). People are simple-minded. Communicate in a way even the simple-minded can grasp.

Democrats SHOULD take a page from the Republicans and threaten to change Senate rules to abolish the filibuster. And then dare the Republicans to block the jobs bill. Do that with enough fanfare and PR-hoopla and you have a winning combination.

Indeed, and that worked GREAT for Republicans. I remember well how they abolished the filibuster and were greeted as heroes on the streets. Oh wait, that DIDN'T happen. Even Republicans at their hubris-loving best wouldn't dare abolish the filibuster. Sure, they threatened, and then they backed down and negotiated; something their base won't allow them to do now.

And this idea that Dems can magically generate fanfare and PR hoopla is absurd. As if we merely need to click our heels together and the American people will rise up, learn the details of this jobs bill, and then...what? Call their Senators and complain? Write a letter to the editor? No, really. Even if we get the Average Joe to care, how exactly is this supposed to work? Do you really expect to see any Republican betray the base because of an angry constituent who normally doesn't even follow politics?

The truth of the matter is that a large segment of our population ignores political news even when Republicans shout it at their loudest, and only really care when it involves something sexy. Even Republican hoopla is very limited in its powers, and to imagine that we can somehow use it to force any Republicans to betray the base is a joke. Obama is more popular than any legislation he might pass and if all the Republicans in the Senate are willing to shit on him without fearing a mass uprising, there's nothing we could include in this jobs bill that will scare them.

Face it, there are no easy answers here and no magic bullet to slay our Republican oppressors. So we're stuck with political nuance and a lot of luck.

Question: Is budget reconciliation on the table for the jobs bill? If not, why not?
I think Dems need to go this route, take the short term lumps for passing a bill through budget reconciliation and then point to the good it has done during the campaign season.

I agree make them actually continue the debate. Obama should then schedule 24/7 camapaign stops in the states with the 5 most vulnerable GOP senators with exactly the same message--"I know you are suffering. The Democrats know you are suffering. We stand ready to pass legislation which will create x jobs in this state within the next 6 months, but your Senator refuses to let that bill come up for a vote. Your state will have x fewer jobs in 6 months because of your Senator. And it is not because we have not agreed to tax cuts--we have agreed to tax cuts but they do not work very well to create jobs. Nevertheless, if your Senator would let the jobs bill come up for a vote, there is nothing to stop him/her from continuing to call for a tax cut to create jobs and if he/she can convince the Democrats that it is a good idea they can pass that bill too." and then move onto the next campaign stop

Every argument that I've seen against a true filibuster is predicated on the opposition doing an endless stream of quorum calls.

So, have the majority change the rules in a less than "nuclear" fashion.

First: quorum calls can be ruled out of order by a majority (51 votes) of the Senate, after three such calls, if they are deemed to be primarily being used for obstructing Senate business.

Second: when every senator who has signed up to speak on a bill has spoken and relinquished the floor, cloture is automatically invoked.

This changes things so that the opposition can still obstruct, but they can not stop the business of the senate in total. If all 41 Republicans want to rage against a bill for 24 hours, fine. Let them ramble on for 41 days.

But once everyone has has their say, debate ends and the Senate votes on the bill with majority rules.

It still illustrates in a way the media can't gloss over that it's Republicans holding the country hostage for their political gain.

Gloss over? The media would barely cover it, as it'd be extremely boring television. After all, they're in the entertainment industry; not the news industry. And they'd blame us for making Republicans do it, because that's what they always do; and we'd be stuck taking the blame for the Senate not getting anything done. And that puts us right back where we started.

And most Americans wouldn't give a damn any more than they care now. Now, if Republicans had to kidnap a white woman in order to uphold their filibuster, THEN people would care; particularly if she were blonde and had a nice rack. But I guarantee that a constant Quorum Call on CSPAN wouldn't even be heard about by a majority of Americans.

And beyond that, why do you people imagine that people would side with us? After all, what if Republicans are RIGHT? What if Obama's bill WAS bad for the economy? Then Republicans would be right in filibustering, and should be seen as heroes. And the only way anyone would know if it was a good or bad bill would be if they learned about it. And that's where it all falls apart. It's not enough that people know that Republicans are filibustering a jobs bill if they don't know what's in the bill.

And so we're talking about taking a big political risk in hopes that an impossible thing would happen. Most folks aren't going to bother learning about this jobs bill, whether or not CSPAN has a constant Quorum Call. So we're back to square one.

I agree with many of the commentors:
-make the Repubs filibuster a jobs bill 24/7
-yell how Repubs are shutting down the government . . . . again !!!
-use the majority to actually govern !!

The Democrats have got to get over being afraid. They have got to stand up for the people !! They have got to start giving the country the reform it needs. Forget bipartisanship until it actually means something.

The most appalling data point so far in any poll is that only 26% of the electorate even knows what the filibuster rule is.

I will support any effort to educate more Americans about the process. Does anybody really think Republicans could get away with this nihilism if more voters actually understood that at the moment we are not a Democracy? Our current circumstance is Tyrany of the Minority.

Down in the comments on that HP page I find this--
(quote)
"When [the quorum call is] finished, the Senator could again notice the absence of a quorum and start the process all over." The rules do not allow this. Once a quorum has been established a Senator can not suggest the absence of a quorum until some "intervening business" takes place. The presiding officer can easily prevent intervening business. Also in suggesting the absence of a quorum the Senator speaking yields the floor, and each Senator can only speak twice on a question during the "legislative day" (which continues until the Senate adjourns), the maximum number of quorum calls the Republicans could make is 82.
(/unquote)

I swear, I am getting tired of saying this, but it is not necessary to change the Senate rules to abolish or modify the filibuster. All that is required is that Democrats actually make the GOP filibuster.

This is getting to be moronic. The GOP is threatening to filibuster EVERYTHING. Every piece of legislation. Every appointment. Every vote. Every amendment.

For God's sake, the Democrats have no excuse for not forcing a filibuster. They can't possibly claim that they can't afford the downtime in the Senate. They aren't accomplishing anything!

Give us the spectacle of the GOP filibustering a jobs bill. Is it not worth two or three weeks to either (a) make the GOP come out firmly against American workers or (b) publicly embarrass the GOP by making them fold their cards?

Republican playbook:

1. Chicken Little about the deficit.

2. Make Democrats look feckless (or more so).

3. Win back control.

4. Keep the rich happy, spend like drunken sailors.

5. Get voted out of office.

6. Return to step #1.

Can Obama stop the cycle? Does he want to stop the cycle?

But Obama & the Democrats have already cut taxes. Granted it wasn't the taxes Republicans want to see cut but the Dems need to do a better job of selling this fact to people. The GOP is going to stonewall and hope for 1994 style anger come this November so it is up to the White House and Democratic leadership to get their message out in a way that pushes back against the GOP lies & distortions. I wish we lived in a country where the facts represented themselves but we don't. Democrats need to grow a pair and fight.

In the real trenches of unemployment, the pain is staggering. I don't understand how the media is doing such a poor job of properly reporting the tragic reality that exist for job seekers.
Posted by: Dean on February 9, 2010 at 3:46 PM

The answer is that all the media types writing the news have jobs. So do their upper class friends. What the hell do they care about the unemployed?

MAKE. THEM. FILIBUSTER. Then have the cojones to get out there and scream and yell about it. Point fingers.

It's nearly impossible to fully reshape the narrative with the current media, but good LORD. At least TRY.

terraformer - Your Republican playbook is somewhat mistaken, as the only real victories they had in Congress were in 1994, 2002, and 2004; and of course, I think those last two victories had less to do with deficits and more to do with scary brown people trying to kill us. And even 1994 was more about a longterm shift, as conservatives completed the transformation from Democrat to Republican; which led to most sane Republicans slowly moving to our side.

But your overall idea is correct, as Republicans are better at campaigning than they are governing, because their promises are all fantasy-based lies which they cannot fulfill. People like that find it easier to get jobs than keep jobs, and they were no exception.

I find this post infuriating on so many levels. First of all, it should be beneath Steve Benen to "thank Massachusetts" for the hosed up situation that this country now faces in the U.S. Senate. Personally, I think Senate Democrats heaved a psychic sigh of relief when Scott Brown won. Their attainment of "60 votes" was like the proverbial dog who unexpectedly catches the car he chases. He has no effing idea of what to do with it. They now don't have to huff and puff and try to justify their inability to move anything forward to all of those saps who worked to get them to that 60 vote holy grail. They can just bleat "We don't have 60 votes!" And, all who can count will understand.

Then the quoted piece rambles on as if the Democrats are but passive observers in this little play. Just born to be bitch-slapped, I guess. All these bad things will happen "to" them. They will once again be outflanked by those nasty, childish Republicans. While I do not deny that the Republcans are often nasty and childish, I have to ask myself, "Who is surprised?" And then I just want to shout at the top of my voice at all those in Democratic "leadership" (Ha ha ha ha ho ho ho ho ha ha) "What are YOU going to do about it?" Quit preaching and whining to your choir and go out and persuade the muddy middle to be on your side. Give the MSM something on which to report; they have stated often and clearly that political positions and grievances that are NOT raised by national politicians are not worth covering. They need a reason to cover something. So figure out (please, pretty please) what it is you want to sell and go out there and do it.

This is SO depressing. The Republicans heartily deserve all the disdain I feel for them. But, I cannot fail to notice that (a) Republicans are doing pretty much what I would expect of them and (b) the Democrats seem incapable of marshalling their considerable power and resources to take a stand and convince the public who is actually on the right side of history. I have been heartened recently by the President's increased visibility and demonstrations of precious level-headedness. But then I read crap like this and feel despair again.

never mind the filibuster.

Just pass the best, most proven-effective jobs bill you can possibly construct, under reconcilisation rules. NO TAX CUTS. Pay for it by fully reinstating the old inheritance tax rules for ten years.

Make clear that five Rebublican votes would have gotten business tax cuts and lower inheritance tax rates.

Play ball, goddammit!

Dollared has made the best comment of the month. Play hardball. Make the Republican base squirm about the policy of obstructionism.

This is a jobs bill. It isn't a permanent program. Reconciliation if perfect.

Then the quoted piece rambles on as if the Democrats are but passive observers in this little play. Just born to be bitch-slapped, I guess.

Well, that was exactly what the writer wanted. He was mocking Democrats and wanting them to magically convince a majority of Americans to not only start following politics, but to actually study the issues and know that Obama is right and Republicans are wrong.

And THEN what? The Republicans turn on their base and support a man many Republicans think is an evil anti-American Muslim? Really? Could you please name for us the Republican senators who will be willing to cross over and help us? I'm sure Obama would be happy to know who they are.

But as Obama's pointed out repeatedly, a big part of the problem is that the GOP has thrown so much partisan red meat to the base that they've put themselves into a corner and aren't able to be bi-partisan even if they wanted to. No matter how much hell they might catch from the middle for filibustering, it can't compare with the hell they'll catch if they betray the base.

Reconciliation, Reconciliation, Reconciliation.

Chimpy Bush and the Republican Congressional Majority passed their agenda with 50 votes in the Senate.

Be careful what you wish for. Modifying rules to get around an untenable situation has lots of short-term punch, but bear in mind that a completely different administration may inherit the rulebook, and it might be sooner than you think.

I agree that something has to be done, because the current situation is insupportable; I'm just saying, be careful, and I think this is what is foremost in Obama's mind when he keeps offering the bipartisan route.

Make the Republican base squirm about the policy of obstructionism.

Nothing makes them squirm and they don't give a rat's ass about tax cuts. They hate liberals. They hate Obama. It's Us v. Them, Good v. Evil. There IS no compromise. Obama could write the entire Tea Party platform into legislation and they'd reject it, and they'd accept the Communist Manifesto as law if Palin pushed it and said Obama hated it.

They've established quite clearly that they have no principles, beyond opposing us. And the harder we fight, the happier they are. They don't even care about winning. They just do it for the fight. While I'm sure they loved Election Days in 2000 and 2004, they definitely love an Obama presidency over the Bush presidency. That's just how they are.

And so this "hard ball" mentality does no good. They're stupid barbarians who want a mudfight and, like it or not, the best way to beat them is through strategy and nuance; and it's simply difficult to do that when Obama's trying to control hundreds of congresspeople, while also working his day job.

Yes, it's frustrating trying to be grown-ups while powerful children throw turdballs at us, but brute force simply won't work and could easily blow up in our faces. We could pass the best jobs bill ever, but if enough voters decide we over-reached and passed a bad bill, the bill will vanish next year. Like it or not, politics is about appearances, not reality.

I guess the Republicans have calculated that they can win with the 20% base with no price to pay with independents. I have no idea what the Dem's calculus is. I'll just go jump back in bed, pull the covers over my head and cry because I cannot name you one Republican who will cross over to "help" and my Democratic president, senators and representative. Oh well, Dems cannot figure out a way to make it politically costly enough for the obstructors to at least allow a bill to come to the floor. Time to play four corners and pretend the shot clock does not exist. Damn you, Massachusetts!

Let them filibuster! Make them vote against jobs! Make them vote against the economy! Then get your constituents to rise up in anger in support of the jobs bill and against the Republicans. Shout "it's the jobs, stupid!" at the Republicans! They are the ones putting our recovery at risk by obstructing the jobs bill.

The jobs bill, banking reform, repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell, these are all very popular political goals with the people. If the Republicans oppose these, then they oppose the people. But you've got to stand up to them and make noise to bring attention to it! Get your constituents riled up in support of the bill! Get the media's attention! Get the American people's attention!

Running a "real old-fashioned" filibuster is basically impossible with the current rules. You'd need 50 Democrats in the chamber on a constant basis for days - that means an average 20-hour day for all Democrats, more like 24 if you lose some - while Republicans would need only a token presence. And in return, Republicans would rejoice in a platform for speechifying.

We need to start talking about the nuclear option. Now.

The legal basis for it would be much stronger than the one the Republicans planned in '05. Instead of just judicial filibusters being unconstitutional (why?), it would be just rules-change ones (no prior restraint, an accepted legal principle). This would allow rewriting the rules to keep a filibuster, but one that couldn't last forever (2 1-hour speeches per opponent and then done, or the Harkin falling cloture threshold, or whatever.)

The problem is that there are at least 5-6 Democratic no-votes (leaving 52+Biden), and probably as many who are indifferent. That means it takes coordinated leadership: some Senators on the left pushing HARD and willing to gum up business to make a point, with Obama and Reid helping to wrangle up the soft votes.

I guess the Republicans have calculated that they can win with the 20% base with no price to pay with independents.

The Republicans have calculated nothing. They have no plan. This isn't a strategy. They've been rudderless since Bush lost interest in politics in 2005 and are simply on auto-pilot. Unelected guys like Rush Limbaugh are running the party now and Limbaugh doesn't give a rat's ass about them winning in November. He's much better off with Democrats in charge than Republicans.

Monkeys throwing poop is NOT a strategy, but you end up looking shitty all the same.

I go with using reconciliation for the jobs bill. Increase the marginal tax rates on incomes over $1 million to help pay for it and it then becomes "budget-related" and only needs 51 votes. Do the same for the "carbon tax" bill; divide the monies received (doesn't have to be evenly, 75/25 maybe?) between investments in renewable energy and decreasing the deficit. Again, "budget-related" and only needs 51 votes.
And don't start by taking anything "off the table"! Republicans will call it "socialism" no matter what the bills actually contain, so go for broke. Then, when the Democrats do give something up in the spirit of "bi-partisanship" (and they will, they will), there will still be a bill worth passing.
A better chance, anyway...

and this little republican charade works over and over again because obama never uses his bully pulpit to publicly flog republicans into submission. obama lets just the opposite occur. It is so pathetic. But republicans aren't to blame - they'll get away with anything obama and the rest of the vichy dems allow them to.

Dear Dumb-arse Hill Dems,

Stop overcomplicating this. Pass the Schumer-Hatch bill as is with Hatch as the 60th vote. Pelosi, just ram it through. It's a good enough bill that regular folks can actually understand and support.

Then go back and try and pass your other crap later.

Congressional Dems are morons or DINOs - how many more days need to go by since the Massachussetts massacre before a jobs bill gets enacted into law?

Let's Go! Act fired up! Act like you're fired with enthusiasm, or you will be fired...with enthusiasm.

Just for fun (if you like this sort of thing.) This doesn't necessarily advance the political strategy discussion, but I find it interesting:
Etymology of "Filibuster":
from _filibustero_ (Spanish), from _flibustier_ (French) from _vrijbutter_ (Dutch), meaning "pirate", one who plunders freely, from _freebooter_ (English) one who takes...booty. American Heritage Dictionary, New College ed., 1st ed., 1969. With slight interpretive liberties on my part at the end.

Hmmm, I voted Democratic to get real health care reform (i.e. a public option), card check, etc. I did NOT vote Democratic to get an endless series of excuses about why they can't do these things.

Here's my position on the filibuster - all of this is inside baseball bullshit concerning obscure rules made up by the Senate itself. The filibuster is not in the Constitution; it's bullshit the Senate made up in its own rules. Well, then change the fucking rules and quit making excuses.

You want to know what Massachusetts was about? It was about people saying that they voted Democratic for results and have so far gotten only excuses. It's not that the general public doesn't know what the filibuster is - they just don't give a shit.

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I have a website too. You can check it out at Satellite TV for PC

There have been NO Senate filibusters: the GOP merely THREATEN to filibuster, and the Dems relent out of fear it will actually happen. I would love to see the GOP take the Senate floor speaking as long as they like AGAINST a needed jobs bill. Call the Republican's bluff - the public will see their nonsense clearly when they have to talk non-stop, instead of using snippy slogans in carefully prepared ads. The Dems should write the best jobs bill they can, and then let the GOP rant against it. The GOP canard of "helping small businesses" has been exposed as a lie by their opposing a plan to do just that. Their nature as inveterate liars will be apparent when we focus on their words, so let them speak, then fact-check, analyze, and convey the problem as their unified lunacy. The Dems don't have to change the rules, just stop being afraid of how persuasive the GOP can be: if nothing is done, only the Dems will look bad to most people.

Pointing fingers is a sign of one who cannot manage a situation. Democrats are very disappointing. If they want to be fair in Politics,they need to get into Seminary and be ordained as priest and pastors. Politics is using the science to fight back. What is Democrats science anyway? Weakness and lack of cohesion. The GOP will always rule if Dems want to apppeal to American's basic conscience. Lies repeated 1000 times pass for the truth. That is why fairy tale and Santa Claus became an aceptable culture.

Unless Independents see the Dems move to their side of issue, the Dems will be in a minority in less than three years.

A President is only as efficient as his advisers,and all the Blah,Blah ,Blah is useless when all is talk and there is no action to promote a better way of life for all and not just for those in power.

Make them go through the whole filibuster process. Only milk and water with no restroom breaks. Bring the crash cart to the Senate floor to resuscitate the old out-of-shape Senators as they fall one-by-one after standing for endless hours to filibuster a bill. It will make for wonderful TV. We can wager on how long each one will last. Simply, furnish us their medical history, age, weight and conditioning. The sleepy dog and boring references to filibuster doesn’t work. Tell it like it is. Both parties have agreed to relinquish their ability to legislate.

Either get rid of the filibuster or force those who engage in such stalling tactics not just threaten to filibuster but actually do it. Then those bloviated individuals will have to expose themselves to public scorn.

We f'n retards who put OBama in office do not support this this republican light version of OBama or the democrats that won't call him back to the historical core principles of the party.