I hope that there is a projector in the room so that the Kaiser chart comparing the Dole/Baker plan, the Chafee plan and the senate bill can be shown and be the basis of the discussion of the "radical socialist" nature of health insurance reform bill now under consideration.

Too depressing to comment on.

So it looks like Cheney, Wolfowicz and the rest of the neo-cons have won. They wanted to pull this country more to the right and by the looks of that comparison they have. The bigger problem is that the right is STILL pulling to the right. How much more right can this country go? .

Is there any way to get under the skin of the big media editors, newscasters and pundits? They have done an utterly atrocious job of educating the public on the issues surrounding the healthcare effort, how these bills address those issues, and how grotesquely absurd it is to to suggest this is a radical or even liberal plan. Indeed, the sheer silence on anything but the horse race aspect is so atrocious that it is a disgrace to journalism that they all share, as bad as their group-think caving on Iraq. They presumably think they are some kind of contributors to the health of a democracy, which ought to mean the capability of changing through action on behalf of the people, yet in reality they, almost every frickin' one of them in the really Big Media, are just the opposite -- propagandists for the status quo.

Or do they just not care because they're all right, Jack? I think I just answered my question.

Conversely, it illustrates how INeffective the Democratic message machine is.

The presence of the right-wing noise machinery isn't news. Some of us were kind of hoping that, a year into the Obama administration, Democrats might have started to cope with that problem. And by coping, I don't mean ignoring and hoping it will go away.

The above question is rhetorical, please don't answer. *shudder*

It all speaks to how lame this bill is. Don't get me wrong, I'd vote for it but it might be the worst option of any we had.

The administration will continue to have trouble selling the current approach.

Most of us who live outside the beltway are not going to support something we don't understand. All of the approaches that have been offered have been too complicated for people with real jobs or those who wish they had one. We simply do not have the time to spend hours trying to understand each of the proposals, especially when they seem to change everyday.

Medicare for all is easy for everyone to understand.

Am I supposed to be excited about the largest Democratic majority in decades passing what's basically a Republican bill?

No, it is a reminder of how checked-out Democrats are from our political discourse.

There's no reason to think Republicans will ever stop lying and misleading people. They can only win if they pretend to have positions they don't really have. That's a given. What can (and must) change is Democrats need to learn how to communicate with their constituents. So far, they seem to be governing some far-away, long ago land, not the current USA.

With the result that this is in fact a center-right country.

The administration will continue to have trouble selling the current approach.

Agreed, but it is not an impossible task.

Medicare for all is easy for everyone to understand.

It's easy to understand and vastly preferable. Unfortunately, passing Medicare for all is an impossibility at this time. Look how hard it was to get the votes for the Senate version of HCR.

This analysis ignores that conservatives have proven their ideas are better in the intervening 17 years. They've delivered massive tax cuts and still balanced the budget. They've launched and quickly won wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. They've . . . Oh, wait. Never mind.

You don't even have to imagine what would have happened to John Chafee. Look at his son who's probably slightly more to the right than father. Obama-supporting Independent now.

So we donate and work for Dems, and get spineless moderate Republicans who get their asses kicked by lunatics.

the right-wing noise machine can be......

the right wing noice machine IS THE CORPORATE MEDIA ... IN MASS ... with very few exceptions ...

@desmoinesdem
At least it was the Republican bill when there was such a thing as a "sane" Republican if that's any consolation!

Nixon had a pretty good plan, and Ted Kennedy shot it down. What goes around, comes around.

There is ALWAYS a working majority in both houses of Congress in favor of the corporate state and regressive social policies. When Democrats hold majorities, the only change is that that fact becomes clearer -- especially to Democratic voters. Of whom there won't be too many in November.

"Nixon had a pretty good plan, and Ted Kennedy shot it down. What goes around, comes around." rIGHT. That'll teach all those people dying for lack of health insurance not to mess with Dick Nixon.

Democrats are essentially pushing moderate Republican ideas while Republicans push extremely conservative ideas

not that this in any way means that the failure of health care reform (whether it fails to pass or passes to fail) is the fault of anyone but the dirty hippies, mind you.

we are supposed to just shut up and take it, because REAL health CARE (not insurance) reform "is an impossibility at this time". and why is it an impossibility? because "everyone" says it is an impossibility. who specifically is making it impossible? well, let's not name names, that's uncouth. "the votes" aren't there. we checked the closet and everything.

so now we should be thankful because at least Democrats are - for now - still old-school New England Republicans and not (yet) crazy neofascist Glen Beck Republicans? i see.

Are we to be comforted and cheer knowing that the Democratic plan is essentially "Republican Lite" and that true health care reform (ahem, public option) has been killed? Victory - whoopee.

How much more right can this country go?

So much more right that it couldn't get more wrong. You betcha!!

OK, maybe the similarity to what moderate Rs come up with is a good sell to the center. But then is that really good per se? Making too nice to insurers is risky, and w/o public option, not good to force people to buy. Believe me, it will be challenged. AG s in red States are already gearing up, like here in VA. Yeah, "Pass the damn bill" - and then, it's damned. I'd say, run around their rope a dope by reconciliation to get a PO based on expansion of existing Medicare (has precedent) and then threw that down for them.

run around their rope a dope by reconciliation to get a PO based on expansion of existing Medicare

This would be great -- if the votes were there, which by all accounts they are not. Last count I saw on the Harkin-Shaheen letter was 23, not even half of the required 50. Absent massive public pressure (and likely a change in leaders, and stronger arm-twisting by the White House) this Senate is not likely to be much more bold than what we have seen to date. And I don't see a lot of public pressure. Polling is mixed, and I don't see as many on the left rallying in the streets and demonstrating on the Mall as I do from the right.

When are we going to hear Democrats say, "If we are supposed to take this joke of a a plan seriously, where the hell was it during the previous eight years?"

(and likely a change in leaders, and stronger arm-twisting by the White House)

To clarify, I meant Senate leader; I was not suggesting we need a change in Presidents.

Now, Steve, don't forget, it's also a monument to the brilliance of pre-capitulating to conservatives, and treating a pair of mandate elections as pleas for more bipartisanship. Oh, and allowing Republicans to define "bipartisanship" as "caving in all the time, on everything, to us."

Why, it's almost as though they're indifferent to policy, and just move the goalposts right for the hell of it.

Except we know that's not true because they want to get the shittiest policy possible - because they don't like government (Norquist), because it would prove Democrats can't govern (McConnell), it will hurt Democrats in elections (Brown) and it will please their corporate benefactors (Inhofe) - and they move the goalposts right (1) because they can, and (2) because Democrats would rather help do that than side with the DFH wing of the party.

We've got a situation in which Democrats are essentially pushing moderate Republican ideas

Yes. Yes, we do.