Note that BHO didn't have the courage to mention Death Panels. He knows that even most democrats wouldn't support that. But it's right there in the bill, in black and white.

Al: Go find Karl Rove and kiss his butt.

The rest of us? Well, we will witness the blood pressure of Rush Limbaugh reach, as yet, unattainable heights as his pants fill with , well you know what. What fun...

Sweet, sweet, wingnut tears.

What's a poor teabagger to do?

You don't have to prescient to feel the vibe.
Pass this bill and this president gets reelected in a landslide.

Al: Yeah, right. I'd rather have the democratic process help us define end of life care versus faceless insurance bureaucrats.

I love it when the president is on a roll like this--reminds me why I voted for him and will do so again, despite the setbacks and slow pace of progress. And I'm someone who was opposed to the Senate bill at first, but who now recognizes that it's the only way to continue moving forward.
When it comes to HCR in the U.S., just a foot in the door is in fact "one giant leap for mankind".

The day after this passes, we continue demanding a strong public option and Medicare buy in, and never let them forget it.

Jeebus Al. You can't be serious. You really think some kind of *star chamber* will meet to decide the fate of each patient?

First, it's nowhere in the bill (cite the passage if you're so sure it's there)..second, real, honest-to-god death panels are engaged every day around this country when insurance companies refuse to cover life-saving treatment for people who have been paying premiums to those same companies for many years.

Al, you're either dumb as dirt, cynical as Dick Cheney, or just a pathetic troll..educate yourself, or go away, will you?

Al is just satire, folks. Don't waste your anger on him/her/it.

And Al, for goodness sake, get some new material. Your schtick is pretty tired. Copying from Sarah Palin's facebook page? Seriously, that can't be the best you can do.

I just don't understand why this should be a hard vote for any Democrat. I watched Speaker Pelosi today in front of a huge sign that said we vote YES. It was a listing of all of the organizations that endorse the healthcare reform bill.

There are the religious leaders and organizations (including nuns) for the pro-life Democrats. There is Dennis Kucinich for the liberal Democrats. There is the deficit reduction for the Blue Dog Democrats. How much more cover does anybody need?

We are watching history being made. I don't understand why every Democrat wouldn't want to be able to say that they voted for this bill. As Paul Krugman has said, just imagine those newspaper headlines.

I can barely contain myself. My stomach is in knots. It feels like the presidential campaign all over again. Bottom line, If not now, WHEN? If not us, WHO?

Oh, sure ... there are death panels in the bill. Definately! They are reserved strictly for Republicans, who will be identified on the basis of party affiliation and region of residence through the census. It is definitely in the bill. Only the "death panels" aren't called that. And, well, the words in the bill don't actually say "death panels" or anything like that. There are lots of big complicated words in there, and the the bill is awfully long and difficult to read, so you shouldn't feel bad if you can't find them. But the bill definately contains death panel provisions! Yessir! And a government takeover of healthcare! And a commitment to destroy free enterprise! What you need to do is play the bill backwards on a turntable (and speed it up to 45 revs) to find this stuff. Because it is backtracked! Coded! Hidden! Just like most satanic mind control plots by heavy metal musicians ... darn those evil Democrats!

I think Bokonon is actually a true wingnut since s/he used the word "definately."

Definitely

I think Bokonon is actually a true wingnut since s/he used the word "definately."

Yeah the President didn't mention either death panels or flying attack monkeys. And yet both scare school children, toddlers and hallucinatory nutjobs.

Serious analysts know that the only route to long run budgetary balance involves health care reform. There will always be those who fight for the status quo like Al, just as there will always be Republican schoolgirls who react to US security challenges with maximum hysteria.

I honestly don't know how you can vote no on this bill (from the right) and say you're a democrat, especially since universal coverage is one of the core tenets of the party. This is as conservative a bill you can get if you believe health care is a right. If you

And I think "David in NY" and "koreyel" are the same person, since the only difference between their posts is italics and six minutes.

Only a true wingnut would do something so stupidly transparent.

[you think wrong. both are long-time, established commenters, and I know they are not the same person because I can see the IPs so lets not have any rumors starting that a couple of regulars are really a sockpuppet. --Mod]

Hey, why are you being so mean to my husband Al? He's onta something here! Didn't Obama mention the Civil Rights Bill? Isn't this proof that this is all about reparations to -- THEM? Hey, you know that kid they brought out to tell the big sob story about how his mother died because she lost her job and her insurance -- did you notice that he didn't look like a Real American, if you know what I mean? It's all about taking America away from Real Americans!

Just to show how for the conservative movement has fallen, I actually cannot tell if Bokonon is being sarcastic or not...

Serious question: Al, who are you, anyway? Inquiring minds want to know. If you're reading this, please identify yourself to me at robertconradfilms (dot) gmail (dot) com. I'd like to do a short documentary on you. I basically just want to get you on camera going through your core beliefs and post it to youtube. Just you ... some identifying clarifying titles/subtitles ... maybe some establishing footage of you interacting with your family-work-neighborhood surroundings ... and that's it. Simple, bare-bones filmmaking. No tricky editing or flim-flammery. I'm genuinely curious about you. I'm in Chicago, where are you?

Note that BHO didn't have the courage to mention Death Panels. He knows that even most democrats wouldn't support that. But it's right there in the bill, in black and white.

God but you are stupid.

Tell us, is being that stupid painful?

Esteemed, beloved progressive, liberal, cat-person, and Best Columnist in Americaâ„¢ Jon Carroll of the SF Chron today comes out for death panels -- hear hear!!1!

Confirmation - I am kidding. :-)

And Al, for goodness sake, get some new material

He can't. He's a conservative, that precludes the acceptance of that "new" stuff!

But it's right there in the bill, in black and white.

Al, I'm from Missouri. Show me!

Don't do it, Al! Gaia's always trying to get strangers on the internet to show her their stuff! That girl's shameless!

Only the President can reach tens of millions of people. In order to give Democrats a fighting chance to get public understanding of this legislation in order, the public education that has been mostly missing so far must to begin the day he signs the bill into law. Obama must take 15 minutes of, say, a 30-minute pre-signing national address to explain carefully what is actually in the bill, and what is not in the bill, what opponents are using to say something is in there and why it isn't, with the general premise being that, at a minimum, every American should understand this historic legislation and what it will mean to them. The "patients' bill of rights" is good wording he used in his Ohio speech, and he needs to make clear that the majority of middle class Americans will receive tax credits that will reduce health insurance premiums significantly -- with the line he also used in Ohio that this is one of (or is the?) biggest middle class tax cuts in American history.

Of course, the Ohio speech had about 10 minutes many elements of that education -- missing the explanations that debunk right-wing falsehoods rather than just saying they are untrue -- but how many millions of us saw that only in a 10-second snippet or at best in an on-line video?

In order to start mending fences with the people critical to electing Democrats, he also needs to address supporters of the public option, saying everybody knows it is not going away and Congress should continue examining the concept and the best way to implement it. The very worst thing he can do is continue to turn Rahm Emanuel loose to shit upon the people who worked the hardest to put this administration into power.

Of course, considering its general popularity as an idea, the fact that it is a strong policy idea and its passionate support by millions of the most engaged Democrats, it is simply a political fact that the public option will not be going away. The President should state that as a political fact: if insurance and for-profit hospital companies think that's somehow going back on a promise -- and, obviously, merely stating a fact is not -- it should be tough shit. The better line will be to say that the public option will be a fact probably sooner more than later, and those who were so opposed to it better start preparing to deal with it.

Most of all, the administration needs to understand that while we active Democrats are temporarily closing ranks to get this bill passed, our memories are not that short. We will remain fully aware of the desirability of adding the public option (possibly in the form of a Medicare buy-in) before the exchanges go into operation. Emanuel himself will probably never be forgiven by the Democrats who work the hardest to elect Democrats for what looks like his cynical manipulation and obnoxious attitude, and he should be muzzled on the subject of the public option entirely. Even if he were to seem to embrace it, he will no longer be believed. But in any event, showing pique at continuing efforts of the Sanders, Weiners and Graysons to put the public option back into play -- the slightest pique, indeed, anything less than strong positive support -- would be extremely stupid.

This blog is filled with fools who haven't read this legislation. I read both the house and senate bills - (although who knows what's in the bills now since the Democrate leaders trashed the bills which had been through committee hearings and created their own version of the bill behind closed doors with no Republicans and damn few Democrats privileged to provide input.) Kiss your specialists goodbye. The medical education provsions in these bills will destroy medical education in this country.
I have also read the reconciliation legislation. Just tell me what does Title II (the Federal takeover of student loans) have to do with health care and for God's sake what is a cellulosic alcohol credit(Section 1408). This bill is a travesty and the process borders on the criminal.

Damn, shortstop! He might have fallen for it if you hadn't warned him.

Steve Benen wrote: "... the president was connecting this effort to the landmark progressive achievements of the 20th century ..."

I think it is better to regulate the for-profit insurance industry than not to do so, and given the apparent impossibility of enacting real, comprehensive change, it is better to pass this bill than not to do so -- even though the price to be paid, namely guaranteeing and subsidizing the insurance corporations' profits at public expense, is very high.

So, yes, if I were Dennis Kucinich I would probably have made the same reluctant decision to vote for the bill.

But please. Don't insult our intelligence. This bill is not a "landmark progressive achievement". It is NOTHING like Social Security, or Medicare, or the Civil Rights Act. It's not "progressive" -- it's "compassionate conservative".

It's the best deal we could get from the corporate aristocracy that owns most of the Congress and runs this country for its own profit. It means that the American people will get a few scraps from the rich folks' table instead of a kick in the teeth. That's all.

the president went "considerably off the script of his prepared remarks," which is worth considering because "it shows just how unbelievably unutterably un blog commentably stupid our national discussion is.

After 8 years, we have again a President who is not teleprompter dependent. So why is it that the President's reliance on teleprompters is a constant theme ?

(Answer, he did better in set piece speeches than in debates in which he argued against an individual mandate, because, as he and every person who has studied the issue knew, a mandate is necessary).

Other answer, because the MSM is more submissive to Republicans than you can imagine possible even after you take into account the fact that the MSM is more submissive to Republicans than you can imagine possible.

Don't insult our intelligence. This bill is not a "landmark progressive achievement"
-Posted by: SecularAnimist on March 19, 2010 at 4:51 PM

I wonder if you would have said the same thing about the original Social Security, or Medicare bills?
You have a president who actually reads history and knows that the pattern in the US is to pass a skeleton and then flesh it out over the years.

Ladyhawke: "I can barely contain myself. My stomach is in knots. It feels like the presidential campaign all over again. Bottom line, If not now, WHEN? If not us, WHO? "

I couldn't have said it better. This exactly how I feel. Next week, I'm going to either be on a huge high, and sink into a deep depression. I'm emotionally invested in this probably too much. We're so so very close to reaching truly landmark legislation, to a bill that will truly life millions out of their problems . . . if only a few obtuse Dems could just get their head out of their a55es and do the right thing . . .

CBO estimates notwithstanding, this Bill will EXPLODE the national debt 10 years out. We'll have the option of massive tax hikes (and resulting GDP growth/unemployment impacts), or major rationing on a scale we've never yet seen. It's an exaggeration to use the term "death panels"...but the impact of european-style rationing does impact life spans. The older you are and the more expensive the treatment, the less likely you get it. And I'm just fine with this as it's the only REAL way to control costs.

"The medical education provsions in these bills will destroy medical education in this country."

Riiigghht. And you figured that out, but the AMA and a gazillion other doctors and nurses organizations haven't?

Leftists are correct that passing the Bill is only a first step; the Left will work 24/7 to "grow" the bill as fast and as far as possible. Just like they did with Social Security (bankrupt), Medicare ($38 trillion in future unfunded liabilities), and Medicaid (bankrupt). What the Left fails to grasp is that the money tree is dead, we've borrowed all we can borrow, and you can expand Obamacare all you want...but it's meaningless if you can't pay for it. We'll be a banana republic...all sorts of entitlements on paper, but no money to pay for it.

JohnR22--

You ever hear of taxes?

JohnR22, shame shame! You included a sentence that isn't false! I'll let you try and guess which one while I correct your errors.
Social Security is NOT bankrupt. There are billions of dollars worth of government-backed bonds held by the SSA. Should the economy fail to improve fast enough, some of them might have to be cashed in; otherwise, not. Remember, when you are holding government bonds, they are considered an ASSET and can be used against any debts you may have.
Regarding the umpty-gazillion FUTURE possible debt of Medicare, you should also consider the fact that if I live to be 350 years old, I will be worth at least several billions dollars. In other words, try another fantasy, this one ain't flying too well.
Nor is Medicaid bankrupt. When state politicians, usually with "R"s after their names, refuse to provide funding to meet Medicaid requirements, the Federal government provides extra funds. That assumes, of course, that national politicians, again usually with "R"s behind their names, don't filibuster the legislation.
You write: "What the Left fails to grasp is that the money tree is dead, we've borrowed all we can borrow...no money to pay for it."
Oh, there's money out there! And we know where it is: in your bank account. And Limbaugh's and Beck's and Ailes and...
Sweet dreams!

Me: "And Al, for goodness sake, get some new material"

IOKIYAR: "He can't. He's a conservative, that precludes the acceptance of that "new" stuff!"

Al's a conservative in the same way Steven Colbert is a conservative. But Mr. Colbert is much better at it.

Al, do you know what the "Death Panel" nonsense came from? (Besides Sarah Palin, who invented it out of whole cloth?)

There was a line item provision in the original House bill providing for the modification of section 1861(s)2 of the Social Security Act, defining what services Medicare is allowed to pay for.

It simply allows Medicare to pay for end of life counseling services (i.e., advice on such things as living wills, hospice services, etc.) for terminal patients, if the patient desires such counseling.

In other words, if you were dying, you could get reimbursed for help in tidying up your affairs, if (and only if) you so desired.

The stupid... it burns...

Is this about health care or about saving the Democratic party? Come on, you all know this: we've been bitching about the party of whores as long as I remember. (Repubs=Party of Death) I do not support this bill. It codifies into law the health insurance industry. It is not a public plan, instead it privatizes health insurance. In short, it's not a step forward; it's a step backward.

* It does not control costs. Every cost-control has been stripped from the plan: Public Option, Medicare buy-in, Drug importation, Medicare drug negotiations, Extended patents on Biologics

* No enforcement mechanism to protect people from being dropped the moment they get sick. It may be illegal, but without enforcement it won't matter.

* The same with pre-existing conditions

* No controls over insurance company rate hikes

* There is no path to single payer or Medicare buy-in, in spite of Obama's claim to Dennis Kucinich

* Many of the "insured" in Massachusetts (21% residents, 12% children) cannot afford both their premiums and their co-pays and thus cannot afford to use the insurance they are required by law to purchase

* Obama keeps hammering away at how pernicious the health insurance industry is, then demands that we buy its products. The only way that makes sense is if Obama is just as pernicious as the insurance companies he demonizes.

I could go on, but most of you are familiar with the issues raised by FireDogLake so you know the arguments.

Wow - you delusional dopes. Do you have any pride? Govt entitlement mentality - you will drag us all down. Do you think its really free? Do you pay taxes? you make no sense. If this bill bankrupts the country - do you think that is a win?

What amazes me is how the liberals ignore the massive surge of power being given to the IRS. They will be able to assess your payment based on your ability to pay in the same kind and gentle manner that they audit taxes. Need to make a car payment? Nope, Uncle Sam comes first, and middle and last. When Caterpillar says this will cost $100,000,000 for them to apply that means that one of two things is going to happen-spiking prices or massive layoffs. When you start adding what amounts to taxes on hiring, then you make employees a burden to the cost of goods and services. That means INFLATION. When added to the fact that we pay for four years a higher payroll deduction to fund this program before it goes into effect along with spiking premiums due to new government mandates on insurance companies, what you have done is eviscerated the economy. Good luck libs, because this sharp sword swings both ways-and takes no prisoners.