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Tilting at Windmills

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April 16, 2010

OBAMA 'AMUSED' BY TEA PARTY NONSENSE.... As a rule, President Obama goes to great lengths -- perhaps even too far, on occasion -- to avoid partisan rhetoric. It's why it's all the more satisfying when the president appears at party fundraisers and let's his guard down a little.

Obama appeared at a DNC event in Miami last night, and as part of his remarks, he reflected on the Tea Party gatherings. The president conceded that he's "amused" by all the fuss.

"[S]ince today happens to be Tax Day, I should just point out that one third of the Recovery Act went to tax cuts -- tax cuts that strengthened the cornerstone of the American Dream: working for a living, earning an education, owning a home, raising a family," he said. "We cut taxes for 95% of working Americans, just like I promised we would on the campaign. That made a difference for 7 million families in Florida alone. We cut taxes on small businesses. We cut taxes for students and parents paying for college. We cut taxes for first-time homebuyers, more than 128,000 here in Florida. In all, we passed 25 different tax cuts last year. And one thing we haven't done is raise income taxes on families making less than $250,000 a year -- another promise that we kept.

"So I've been a little amused over the last couple of days where people have been having these rallies about taxes. You would think they would be saying, 'Thank you.'"

The comments were not well received by the right, but it's hardly an unreasonable point. Right-wing activists started rallying in March to complain about taxes, less than a month after Obama gave them a tax cut. It's hardly a surprise they're going to be subjected to some mockery.

Steve Benen 10:45 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (217)

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Comments

The Right has a bit of history when it comes to biting the hand that feeds them.

Posted by: Mark on April 16, 2010 at 10:46 AM | PERMALINK

So...

Muslim, Communist, oh yeah, half-Black...
and now we add:

Trying to Confuse Us with the Truth.

Just who does this guy think he is, anyway?

Posted by: neill on April 16, 2010 at 10:52 AM | PERMALINK

BTW, in your link substantiating the manner in which the news was received by The Right - did you happen to notice the story about Hannity being yanked from his starring role as centerpiece of a Tea Party fundraiser, from which he was broadcasting his show? FOX actually made him return to the studio to do it.

Maybe there really IS such a thing as being too openly partisan.

Posted by: Mark on April 16, 2010 at 10:52 AM | PERMALINK

Between the teabaggers flipping out over their supposedly high taxes, and many of the same teabaggers complaining that almost half the country doesn't pay federal income taxes, I have no idea what they actually want anymore.
I thought it was supposedly all about taxes and spending(because they all tell me it isn't about race), but do they think the middle class pays too much or not enough?

Posted by: Allan Snyder on April 16, 2010 at 10:56 AM | PERMALINK

Sam Youngman calls Obama's comments "hyperpartisan". How it is "hyperpartisan" to respond to attacks that are based on lies and/or ignorance?

Posted by: Daryl McCullough on April 16, 2010 at 10:57 AM | PERMALINK

This story is an example of one of the reasons why I can never agree that the Teabaggers/GOP "may have some legitimate concerns." Their diatribes and outrage are built on their own delusions, gullilbility, lies and the refusal to acknowledge facts.

It's just unbelievable. At the very moment that Pres. Obama cut their taxes, Teabaggers were out holding up "Taxed Enough Already" signs. These people are just plain nuts.

Posted by: June on April 16, 2010 at 10:59 AM | PERMALINK

"goes to great lengths, perhaps even too far, on occasion, to advance partisan rhetoric"

There, fixed.

Posted by: Tom Mathers on April 16, 2010 at 11:05 AM | PERMALINK

These people are just plain nuts. -June

These people are just plain racist. They've traded in their white robes for a misinformed, misguided ideology.

There has been a huge push back from the baggers over the last few days on the radio to try to shed their racist image, which has me even more convinced it's the truth.

Posted by: doubtful on April 16, 2010 at 11:06 AM | PERMALINK

Trite, but true: "My mind's made up; don't try to confuse me with the facts."

Posted by: DAY on April 16, 2010 at 11:12 AM | PERMALINK

I'm all for letting Tea Baggers skip paying taxes entirely, with one simple caveat: They must each forfeit public benefits of any kind. To insure that they comply, we should give them each a tattoo on their forehead. Those without the tattoo will have access to any public program they need. But those with it will get nothing. Maybe the tattoo could be a three-digit number. Perhaps "668," which is of course "the neighbor of the beast."

Posted by: chrenson on April 16, 2010 at 11:22 AM | PERMALINK

From the Christian Science Monitor -
US tax bite smaller than other nations
With the April 15 filing deadline in view, American taxpayers may be surprised to find that their tax burden is less than those in most industrialized countries . But can that last ?

Reagan raised taxes six times too

Now can we please have an Michelle Malkin allowance ? The heavy opprobrium of her guileless style lifts and lightens the heavy air that sets like sludge beneath the awkward plod of the self righteous know nothing , and Tea Baggeur too . She is like the playtex living curmudgeon , she lifts and separates facts to fiction with a toothsome snarl , rah rah , sis boom bahh !

PS : Just kidding

Posted by: FRP on April 16, 2010 at 11:23 AM | PERMALINK

"There has been a huge push back from the baggers over the last few days on the radio to try to shed their racist image, which has me even more convinced it's the truth."
Posted by: doubtful

I don't pay much attention to their rallys, protests, etc., but the only black face I've noticed with the teabaggers, the few times I have bothered to pay attention, is the picture of Obama they wave around when they call him names, etc. And I'm willing to bet, if you asked, some of their best friends are black.

Posted by: Schtick on April 16, 2010 at 11:35 AM | PERMALINK

The comments were not well received by the right...

Did he call anyone a traitor or terrorist sympathizer?

Did he question anyones faith, birthright or citizenship?

The "right" needs to STFU.

Posted by: Winkandanod on April 16, 2010 at 11:35 AM | PERMALINK

Doubtful: You have hit the nail on the head. The Tea Klux Klanners ( thanks to Olbermann) are racists pure and simple. Remember seveal months ago Jimmy Carter said this same thing and was soundly criticized for it.

Posted by: buddym on April 16, 2010 at 11:42 AM | PERMALINK

He couldn't have been "hyperpartisan" without mentioning that every single Republican voted against the tax cuts. Or mentioning that every single Republican wants to extend the Bush tax cuts, which would explode the federal deficit -- the other thing Tea Partiers blame on Obama.

Posted by: Grumpy on April 16, 2010 at 11:45 AM | PERMALINK

"do they think the middle class pays too much or not enough?"

Easy: white people pay too much; black and brown people don't pay enough.

Posted by: Virginia on April 16, 2010 at 11:45 AM | PERMALINK

I actually disagree on this one - I don't think mockery of American citizens is ever a good note coming from a President. Point out that they're wrong? illogical? misinformed? Sure. But I wish he hadn't used these words or this tone. I don't mind when he mocks the Republican congressmen/senators or Fox News (sic). They're on the field with him and deserve what they get. But ordinary citizens, however wrongheaded? That grates, somehow.

Posted by: Johio on April 16, 2010 at 11:54 AM | PERMALINK

Malkin responds "Thanks, chump" and complains about the deficit. So, I guess Malkin is AGAINST tax cuts. It's so hard to keep track.

Posted by: g on April 16, 2010 at 12:03 PM | PERMALINK

Any racist signs at tea party rallies are all coming from infiltrators on the left. This movement is about tax freedom but you guys always have to make everything about the president being black.

Posted by: Myke K on April 16, 2010 at 12:06 PM | PERMALINK

Malkin responds "Thanks, chump" and complains about the deficit.

Deficit? Is that the thing that Paul Ryan's "budget" will make considerably larger while Democratic legislation reduces it?

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 12:07 PM | PERMALINK

Tax rates for the folks protesting are much much lower than they think. Bruce Bartlett posts a nice chart to help them figure it out.

Posted by: Gridlock on April 16, 2010 at 12:08 PM | PERMALINK

To insure that they comply, we should give them each a tattoo on their forehead.

Where do I get in line for my tatoo, you little Eichmann?

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs on April 16, 2010 at 12:19 PM | PERMALINK

"As a rule, President Obama goes to great lengths -- perhaps even too far, on occasion -- to avoid partisan rhetoric."

*SLUURP

*Steve Benen gets up off his knees, wipes off his mouth and realizes the entire world just watched him give a hummer.

Posted by: Uniball on April 16, 2010 at 12:27 PM | PERMALINK

Tax rates for the folks protesting are much much lower than they think.

Surely not. All of those folks are making $250K plus. Or, like Sam the Unplumber, they hope to someday, which is the same thing.

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 12:34 PM | PERMALINK

There has been a huge push back from the baggers over the last few days on the radio to try to shed their racist image, which has me even more convinced it's the truth.

Which tells me you don't know the first thing you're talking about. These Tea Parties are happening all over the country. Your neighbors are at them. If you weren't so intellectually incurious, you might actually drive by one - or, heaven forefend, you might just get out of your car and walk around at one - just to see firsthand what these things are about. You know - rather than talking out of your poopchute.

Posted by: Jazz on April 16, 2010 at 12:35 PM | PERMALINK

I'm going to be "amused" after the November election and after the 2012 Presidential election. Really "amused." Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Posted by: mare on April 16, 2010 at 12:45 PM | PERMALINK

Forgive my ignorance, but what tax cuts on small business did he make?

Posted by: Carin on April 16, 2010 at 12:46 PM | PERMALINK

If you weren't so intellectually incurious, you might actually drive by one - or, heaven forefend [sic], you might just get out of your car and walk around at one - just to see firsthand what these things are about.

Well, I listened at length to some proud 'baggers last weekend. Within 45 seconds, they were cheering on the Confederacy and defending slavery as "the blacks being better off than they are today." I'm sure there was nothing racist about that, though. They were probably just protesting the lack of parity in public schools.

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 12:47 PM | PERMALINK

Shortstop, that is a lie, and you are a liar.

Posted by: Carin on April 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM | PERMALINK

I'm going to be "amused" after the November election and after the 2012 Presidential election.

Feel free to yuk it up, but you'll be shocked and disappointed to learn that your lack of mathematical acumen not only enables you to make a fool of yourself getting your actual tax rate wrong; it's also going to prevent you from accurately predicting vote counts.

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 12:51 PM | PERMALINK

I don't blame you for being deeply embarrassed, Carin, but that's your movement. Either own it or devote your efforts to educating your own people rather than getting your big white cotton underpants at a twist over the people who point out the problem.

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

Obama has not abolished all taxes. He is a socialist.

Posted by: SqueakyRat on April 16, 2010 at 12:53 PM | PERMALINK

Within 45 seconds, they were cheering on the Confederacy and defending slavery as "the blacks being better off than they are today."

Isn't it curious how these people can make these assertions, yet never back them up? Like that vile stunt the Congressional Black Caucus pulled last month. Heck, there's even $100k on the table, and there were plenty of video cameras filming. You'd think someone could back up their claims.

Pretty hard to document something that didn't happen.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 12:54 PM | PERMALINK

in a twist...;)

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 12:54 PM | PERMALINK

It wasn't a rally, boys and girls; it was a conversation with a large group of self-identified 'baggers in a cafe. And their lack of self-editing was absolutely remarkable. I guess they didn't get the memo to ixnay the ublicpay acismray,

Hotspur: You guys really don't get that you're digging yourself deeper, do you? The entire country has seen the face of 'bagger bigotry and is horrified -- you'll never grow past the 4 percent you represent now. You really should have put a lid on the language from the start, but it's really hard to herd exceptionally ignorant cats, isn't it?

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 1:00 PM | PERMALINK

$100k, shortstop - all yours if you can back up your lies.

[Unlike you, shortstop is a long-time member-in-good-standing of the community here, and has never given anyone any reason to doubt her honesty or veracity. -Mod]

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 1:05 PM | PERMALINK

I ask again - what tax cuts to small business did Obama make?

Shortstop - your claims of bigotry cannot be backed up or proven - I can just as easily claim to have experienced, first hand, racism at the hand of blacks. I can claim to have had a black man race up to attempt to hit me as I crossed the street as he yelled out the window that he hated white women. While both stories may be true (yours and mine - which is true) neither has any larger meaning.

But, perhaps you CAN back up that 4% claim?


Posted by: Carin on April 16, 2010 at 1:10 PM | PERMALINK

How is it that you lefties are offended by Barney Frank being called a faggot, and yet you almost to a person, delight in the use of a homosexual slur to refer to the Tea Party? Of which, BTW, I am not a part. I see the same news reports and videos that you do, and have seen little if any evidence of racism.

The vast majority of racism that I have witnessed is on the left.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 1:11 PM | PERMALINK

Hey Hotspur - don't force me to have to post the clips that are publicly available all over the web (shoot ... spend ten seconds doing a search on YouTube).

You (and Andrew Breitbart) know perfectly well what is in the tapes - but you Baggers are pissing on our leg, and telling us it is raining, and THEN claiming that it is up to us to prove otherwise.

Posted by: Bokonon on April 16, 2010 at 1:15 PM | PERMALINK

"its true" is a moby.

Posted by: Carin on April 16, 2010 at 1:17 PM | PERMALINK

I smell a transparent provocateur, "its true".

Let's be clear: slavery was an abomination.

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs on April 16, 2010 at 1:18 PM | PERMALINK

Bokonon, I can't force you, but I challenge you. If they exist, post a link.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 1:18 PM | PERMALINK

It wasn't a rally, boys and girls; it was a conversation with a large group of self-identified 'baggers in a cafe.

So, what would you say to me if I ran into a bunch of LaRouchies in a cafe who were all excited about a Democrat rally you were going to? Would you make excuses for them? Would you avoid the event? What would you say about the Democratic party and their relationship to the LaRouchies?

Posted by: Jazz on April 16, 2010 at 1:18 PM | PERMALINK

[Unlike you, shortstop is a long-time member-in-good-standing of the community here, and has never given anyone any reason to doubt her honesty or veracity. -Mod]

You either have low standards or are intellectually lazy or dishonest.

That story stunk to high heaven, yet you claim he has credibility.

Posted by: Uniball on April 16, 2010 at 1:19 PM | PERMALINK

Shortstop you seem really sensitive about the polling going on showing Obama's going to be doing something other than golfing and chit chatting with the unions after the 2012 elections. It's okay, you can still be a shrill voice for the cause.

Posted by: mare on April 16, 2010 at 1:19 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, I smelled a sockpuppet too, Cuffy.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 1:20 PM | PERMALINK

Hey Hotspur - don't force me to have to post the clips that are publicly available all over the web (shoot ... spend ten seconds doing a search on YouTube).

I call your bluff. Show me ONE clip on YouTube from the CBC's perp walk to the health care vote where there's any audible racial slurs. One. You do, and I'll give $100 to UNCF.

Posted by: Jazz on April 16, 2010 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

and yet you almost to a person, delight in the use of a homosexual slur to refer to the Tea Party?

Well, it's not really a slur unless you're a homophobe, and it's not actually an exclusively gay practice. Sorry about your lifelong lack of oral sex, though. That's gotta be frustrating. Anyway, to answer your question, you guys, not being able to use Google (recall also the 2M4M debacle) originally called yourself teabaggers.

And LaRouchies identify as Democrats. You all on board with them?

Of course not. We're also not stupid enough to pretend they don't exist or that they're not mentally ill. I'm having a ball with Hotspur's demand that I produce an iPhone vid of a bunch of racist rantings some yahoos made in a restaurant before he'll accept that any teabagger is pro-Confederacy. Priceless!

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 1:22 PM | PERMALINK

I'm curious. Hotspur and Carin, please in your own words explain what the Tea Party movement means to you and why you're involved in it. Would you do that for me? Because I really don't understand what's behind all the ruckus and complaints.

Posted by: whichwitch on April 16, 2010 at 1:23 PM | PERMALINK

not being able to use Google (recall also the 2M4M debacle) originally called yourself teabaggers.

That is a lie. Anderson cooper used the term on April 15 - that's three days before you little Jpeg "proof."

Posted by: carin on April 16, 2010 at 1:25 PM | PERMALINK

Some of the biggest racists I have ever met were white blue collar union thugs in Eastern Pennsylvania. It was funny, we all just happened to be in a cafe where everyone was chatting about politics. They said that they loved the welfare state because it destroyed the black family and kept the African-American population beholden to the Federal government, and the Democratic Party by extension. They liked the fact that the African American community in America is basically enslaved by the Democratic party because the Democratic party supports the Unions.

I was shocked by their candor.

See how that works?

Posted by: Uniball on April 16, 2010 at 1:26 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop, I am not denying that there is pro-confederacy or racism in America. Nice strawman you built there.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 1:26 PM | PERMALINK

Whichwitch, I advise you attend a Tea Party meeting if you're really interested. It's pretty basic stuff. Liberty. A turn to fiscal responsibility. States rights versus the statism that appears to be growing.

Posted by: Carin on April 16, 2010 at 1:29 PM | PERMALINK

Of course not. We're also not stupid enough to pretend they don't exist or that they're not mentally ill.

So, how do Tea Partier's disavowals of a racist element differ from the Democratic party treatment of LaRouchies?

Posted by: Jazz on April 16, 2010 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

Hey Hotspur - don't force me to have to post the clips that are publicly available all over the web

Do it!! DO IT!!! Show that Hotspur how wrong he is!!!!!

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

whitchwitch, I've already said that I am not a Tea Partier. I do however object to the left's use the very serious charge of racism every time someone dares to disagree with them, or posits a different point of view.

On the whole, I have seen little if any evidence of it in the news, other than reporters offering their very biased opinions that this must be what this means. You know, the whole hidden secret code words thing. Sloppy journalism lapped up by people believing what they want to believe.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

That is a lie. Anderson cooper used the term on April 15 - that's three days before you little Jpeg "proof."

Carin, is there any subject on earth you're not misinformed about? I think this person is a ringer. No one is this stupid.

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 1:35 PM | PERMALINK

That is a lie. Anderson cooper used the term on April 15 - that's three days before you little Jpeg "proof."

Carin, is there any subject on earth you're not misinformed about? I think this person is a ringer. No one is this stupid.

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK

whitchwitch, I've already said that I am not a Tea Partier. I do however object to the left's use the very serious charge of racism every time someone dares to disagree with them, or posits a different point of view.

On the whole, I have seen little if any evidence of it in the news, other than reporters offering their very biased opinions that this must be what this means. You know, the whole secret code words thing. Anyway, it's sloppy journalism lapped up by people believing what they want to believe.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK

Aaargh! Unnecessary apostrophe use! "...let's his guard down..."

I expect such a mistake from a tea partier, but not from a liberal and a professional writer.

Posted by: giantslor on April 16, 2010 at 1:39 PM | PERMALINK

Shortsstop - the jump from using the expression "Tea Bag" to "Teabagging" was one made by Anderson Cooper.

After that, all the usual suspects jumped on the sexual slur. Tea partiers did NOT give themselves that name.


Posted by: carin on April 16, 2010 at 1:42 PM | PERMALINK

So, how do Tea Partier's [sic] disavowals of a racist element differ from the Democratic party treatment of LaRouchies?

Start disavowing. You dim bulbs have spent this entire thread denying reports of racist statements made by teabaggers. It's not boosting your credibility, which is already mighty low among everyone but a handful of bewildered nut jobs with a totally incoherent set of complaints easily mown down by the facts.

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 1:42 PM | PERMALINK

Still waiting for those vids, Bokonon.

Posted by: Jazz on April 16, 2010 at 1:42 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop, you're seriously going to conflate Tea Bag with teabag? And you're the honest person here? You are a joke.

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 1:43 PM | PERMALINK

Carin - if you were concerned about liberty, fiscal responsibility, etc., where the hell were you and the rest of the Tea Baggers for the past eight years?!

Posted by: whichwitch on April 16, 2010 at 1:44 PM | PERMALINK

OH, and again I ask- what tax breaks on Small businesses did obama give us?

Posted by: Carin on April 16, 2010 at 1:44 PM | PERMALINK

shortsop, you're good at building strawmen aren't you? You want someone to disavow something that may or may not have happened?

Okay, I disavow them, if they happened.

There. How's that?

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 1:45 PM | PERMALINK

Carin, read the fucking story at the link I gave you. It is written by a solid, lifelong right winger and it corrects the erroneous version you've got lodged in your thick little head.

That's some kryptonite shield you've got there to totally filter out any piece of information that makes you unhappy. You still think your taxes are higher under Obama, don't you? Are you a birther? Come on, you can tell us.

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 1:46 PM | PERMALINK

Whichwitch - that is a tired argument that has been addressed before on many forums.

Where was I? How the hell do you know where I was? Bush was rather a big disappointment in many respects, but "you folks" were too busy protesting the war to notice what the right was about.

But, it is irrelevant. If Bush was accused of raping a women, would the left been forced to remain silent because Clinton had done the same and defended him for it?

Posted by: Carin on April 16, 2010 at 1:48 PM | PERMALINK

YEAH! Start disavowing something that, legitimately, there is no proof for, but.....

DISAVOW IT!!!! I DARE YOU!!!!!

You can't, can you?

HA!

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 1:48 PM | PERMALINK

where the hell were you and the rest of the Tea Baggers for the past eight years?!

Nearly 4 of those last 8 years have been under Pelosi/Reid.

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs on April 16, 2010 at 1:49 PM | PERMALINK

Whichwitch, can we focus, for once, away from George Bush? He's not President anymore. Obama wanted the job, he campaigned for it. Why does he continually whine about the past? Libs love to bring up Bush when they are tanking. What an obvious bit of immaturity.

Posted by: mare on April 16, 2010 at 1:49 PM | PERMALINK

Okay, I disavow them, if they happened.

There. How's that?

Good start. Now why was that so hard? So, how's Paladino's campaign going? You volunteering at all?

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 1:50 PM | PERMALINK

The entire country has seen the face of 'bagger bigotry and is horrified -- you'll never grow past the 4 percent you represent now.

More presumption that "the entire country" is represented in the 4 people who watch MessNBC to learn the truth.

I'm part of the entire country, and I don't share your falacious views.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 1:50 PM | PERMALINK

Good start. Now why was that so hard?

It wasn't. Now how hard could it be for you to link those youtube videos?

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINK

Well, I never complained about Bush's record-high deficit spending; in fact, I supported him wholeheartedly, but...THE PAST IS THE PAST! LET'S MOVE ON FROM MY HYPOCRISY!

Posted by: mare on April 16, 2010 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINK

I read the story - actually I read the piece when it originally came out.

At issue was whether the original poster meant what Anderson Cooper believe it meant.

Posted by: Carin on April 16, 2010 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINK

Shortstop, your article proved CARIN'S point. Why are you getting shrill again? You were wrong on that point...move on.

Posted by: mare on April 16, 2010 at 1:53 PM | PERMALINK

Teabagger. Birther. Bush. I think shortstop's about covered the Big 3 talking points.

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 1:53 PM | PERMALINK

Now whichwitch is getting shrill and sockpuppetting me. When libs don't have an argument or lose one they start getting really shrill and nasty.

Posted by: mare on April 16, 2010 at 1:55 PM | PERMALINK

Darn! If I had just waited 2 minutes I could have added Palin to my comment. Sucks to be quick.

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 1:55 PM | PERMALINK

I call your bluff. Show me ONE clip on YouTube from the CBC's perp walk to the health care vote where there's any audible racial slurs. One. You do, and I'll give $100 to UNCF.

Good luck with that.

Making up the news story before the event allegedly occurred was much easier than filming the "evidence" before it actually occurred. Which is actually sad when you think about it. They have mental giants like James Cameron on their side, and it never occurred to them to manufacture a film of the events they want so desperately to have happened.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 1:57 PM | PERMALINK

So we have a site here that deletes comments, a mod steps in to stick up for regulars, and that allows sockpuppets?

Bye. Have a nice echo chamber.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 1:57 PM | PERMALINK

For the last time, I have no video from my conversation in that restaurant, Hotspur. You really seem to be having trouble grasping this point. Do you perhaps also think your taxes are higher under Obama?

I don't watch MSNBC, Stewart; I'm too smart for cable news. Now, if you turned yours off and worked on your English...you might gain some coping skills that would keep you out of the pathos that is wearing a tricorn hat in broad daylight.

Shortstop, your article proved CARIN'S point.

Somebody's reading comprehension is even worse than Carin's. Slow down and read it again. You can even move your lips while reading if that helps.

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 1:58 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop, I didn't ask for a video of your made up story. That's already been pointed out to you if you would quit sockpuppeting.

I'm asking for videos of the CBC stunt that you all insist exist all over the internet.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 2:01 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop is just too durned honest and cute! She accuses everyone of negligible reading comprehension then pretends Hotspur wants video of her racist friends in the coffee shop. Too precious!

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 2:02 PM | PERMALINK

For the last time, I have no video from my conversation in that restaurant, Hotspur.

We are asking you to claim the $100,000 that Breitbart has offered for any video evidence of the Congressional Black Caucus being called you-know-what on the day HCR was signed.

We could give less of a shit about your little fantasy at the cafe.

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs on April 16, 2010 at 2:02 PM | PERMALINK

Here, let me help you folks out. Obama's "claim" about those tax cuts on small business?

It's that tax "credit" for hiring. So, unless you hire someone NO TAX CUT FOR YOU.

And, it's a credit. It's not a cut. And, its a credit that doesn't even compensate for the risks an employer takes with a new hire.

So ... that's a .... LIE.

Posted by: carin on April 16, 2010 at 2:02 PM | PERMALINK

Okay, I think I've had my first experience trying to communicate with a Tea Party member. It didn't turn out too well. We are on two totally different planets. On to more important matters!

Posted by: whichwitch on April 16, 2010 at 2:03 PM | PERMALINK

I'll get to the disavowals in a second, shortstuff. But in the mean, CNN actually sent reporters to a Tea Party event, and even through its Ass-colored glasses, it reveals that the Tea Party isn't what it's been portrayed as:

When it comes to the Tea Party movement, the stereotypes don't tell the whole story. . . .

But here's what you don't often see in the coverage of Tea Party rallies: Patriotic signs professing a love for country; mothers and fathers with their children; African-Americans proudly participating; and senior citizens bopping to a hip-hop rapper.

Last week, I saw all of this during a five-city Western swing as the Tea Party Express national tour made its way across the country. CNN was along for the ride, and I was charged with planning CNN's coverage for five stops in two states: St. George, Provo and Salt Lake City, Utah; and Grand Junction and Denver, Colorado. . . .

Together, we beamed out images of the anger and the optimism, profiled African-Americans who are proud to be in the Tea Party's minority and showed activists stirred by "God Bless America" or amused by a young rapper who strung together rhymes against the president and Democrats. . . .

Being at a Tea Party rally is not quite like seeing it on TV, in newspapers or online. That's the reason CNN is covering this political movement -- and doing so in ways few others can or choose to do.

It is important to show the colorful anger Americans might have against elected leaders and Washington. But people should also see the orange-vested Tea Party hospitality handlers who welcome you with colorful smiles.

There were a few signs that could be seen as offensive to African-Americans. But by and large, no one I spoke with or I heard from on stage said anything that was approaching racist.

Almost everyone I met was welcoming to this African-American television news producer. . . .
Speaking of stereotypes, I did get a few curious stares as I pulled up to the rallies. But not because of my skin color. It was because of my car rental: a Volvo.

I hadn't intended to rent a Volvo, a car stereotyped as the favorite of liberal elites. But upon arriving at the Las Vegas airport, the rental company was out of American-made cars with a GPS system and satellite radio. I had nearly a thousand miles of driving ahead, through desert, mountains and cities. Since it had GPS and satellite radio, the Volvo fit the bill.

Outside of the occasional stare, none of the real cowboys at the rallies came up to the Volvo and asked me, "Hey buddy -- where's your cashmere sweater and arugula?" If they had, I might have pointed out that until just recently, Volvo was owned by Ford Motor Co., an American icon.

Jokes aside, stereotypes can loom large when they're magnified through a television lens, on the radio, the pages of a newspaper or in the vastness of the Internet.

So, it's important that with a newsworthy, growing phenomenon like the Tea Party movement, viewers and readers fully understand what they see and what they don't.

As to disavowals, all we can do is individually disavow racist behavior - the Tea Party isn't a centralized group with one leader or leadership entity, which is really frustrating you Alinskyites, isn't it? So any disavowals we make ourselves will only have the weight of a single person's opinion, and it's impossible for the media or anyone else to poll every single Tea Partier for his or her opinion on racism.

According to Gallup, the Tea Party is very representative of America as a whole. Of interest are racial make-ups: 79% Non-Hispanic White, 6% Non-Hispanic Black, and 15% other, while the general US population consists of 75% Non-Hispanic White, 11% Non-Hispanic Black, and 15% Other. It's interesting how the left tries to smear the Tea Party as being racist when the Tea Party's racial composition approximates American society as a whole. Wouldn't you think white racism would drive non-whites from the movement?

The Tea Party consists of

Posted by: Jazz on April 16, 2010 at 2:03 PM | PERMALINK

Shortstop, you seem to spend a lot of time trying to convince people you are smarter than them. Why? We are trying to argue that anyone who thinks Obama is lowering taxes is being silly. Based on every mentor and advisor Obama has ever had, smaller government and lower taxes just isn't in his world view.

Posted by: mare on April 16, 2010 at 2:04 PM | PERMALINK

I don't watch MSNBC, Stewart; I'm too smart for cable news. Now, if you turned yours off and worked on your English...you might gain some coping skills that would keep you out of the pathos that is wearing a tricorn hat in broad daylight.

Ahh yes, and there it is. The ubiquitous "I'm too smart" mantra. Riddle me this, genius: Are you smarter than everyone, or just people who know how wrong you are?

Very few things amuse me more than the "I'm smarter than you" argument. You might stop presuming to speak for me with your tired "The Entire Country Knows" nonsense.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 2:05 PM | PERMALINK

Oh shit, Carin brings truth.

+Eleventy!!!!11!! Nobel Prizes

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 2:05 PM | PERMALINK

Okay, I think I've had my first experience trying to communicate with a Tea Party member. It didn't turn out too well. We are on two totally different planets. On to more important matters!

RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!

*claps coconut shells rapidly*

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs on April 16, 2010 at 2:07 PM | PERMALINK

Okay, I think I've had my first experience trying to communicate with a Tea Party member. It didn't turn out too well. We are on two totally different planets. On to more important matters!


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I love it.

*hands on ears* lalalalalala I can't hear you.

What is this blog? Third Grade?

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 2:07 PM | PERMALINK

Whew ... I knew a large percentage of teabaggers were ignorant racists ( I *have* attended a "rally" firsthand), but I had no idea just how reality challenged they could be. Oh excuse me. I said teabagger. How impolite. They prefer to be called the T.P. How fitting (per Cornholio).

Posted by: G.Kerby on April 16, 2010 at 2:10 PM | PERMALINK

Okay, I think I've had my first experience trying to communicate with a Tea Party member. It didn't turn out too well. We are on two totally different planets. On to more important matters!

That's only to be expected. People who won't be victims don't respond positively to condescension.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 2:11 PM | PERMALINK

You mind pointing out what reality we appear to have difficulty with?

You can start with the unsupported racism charges and end with the tax cuts for small businesses lie.

Posted by: Carin on April 16, 2010 at 2:12 PM | PERMALINK

I knew a large percentage of teabaggers were ignorant racists ( I *have* attended a "rally" firsthand)

Have any proof of racism? Didn't think so.

Next.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 2:12 PM | PERMALINK

GKerby, were you the one wearing the Klan shirt or holding the noose poster?

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 2:14 PM | PERMALINK

Whew ... I knew a large percentage of teabaggers were ignorant racists ( I *have* attended a "rally" firsthand), but I had no idea just how reality challenged they could be. Oh excuse me. I said teabagger. How impolite. They prefer to be called the T.P. How fitting (per Cornholio).

Yeah. That would be why the only people I hear talking about race would be the self-appointed intelligensia, the media elites, the Democrats trying to retain control of the dependents on their modern-day plantations or entitlements and race greviences, and the empty-headed snobs who still believe that the NYT is the "Newspaper of Record".

Since you invoked Beavis and Butthead, and delight in the churlish wink and repetition of "teabaggers", did you ever stop to think that it might be you on the receiving end of the act? No need to rush with the answer. It can wait until we stand back up.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 2:18 PM | PERMALINK

Are you smarter than everyone, or just people who know how wrong you are?

I'm only smarter than people who think cable news is a good source of information, Stewart. It's really not a very high threshold.

I'm asking for videos of the CBC stunt that you all insist exist all over the internet.

Oh, I think you've confused me with someone else. Do we all look alike to you? You used to have the same problem with Asian Americans and African Americans, I'll bet.

Based on every mentor and advisor Obama has ever had, smaller government and lower taxes just isn't in his world view.

Somehow this curiously vague...thought...is no match for...actual numerical facts. But I realize they're not consonant with your alternate reality and must be filtered out pronto.

Thanks for sharing that, Jazz! And then there's this. Hmmm.

I'm leaving for a meeting, so you baggers play nice with each other. Enjoy the weather (if it's nice where you are) and your tax cuts.

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 2:19 PM | PERMALINK

Name ONE SPECIFIC tax cut, shortstop.

One.

Posted by: Carin on April 16, 2010 at 2:21 PM | PERMALINK

On my way out...

Have any proof of racism? Didn't think so.

Hilarious -- immediate disavowal regression! You're hopeless, Hotspur. Happy tax cuts to you!

Posted by: shortstop on April 16, 2010 at 2:21 PM | PERMALINK

Oh, no you don't, shortstop! Your link at 1:00 directly links the "On March 20, House Democratic leaders walked from a caucus meeting to Capitol Hill" bullshit racial accusations.
Don't even try to pretend you didn't know what Hotspur was talking about.
Veracity. Honesty. Surely this is not the much-loved shortstop a moderator here held up to us and put on a pedestal.
For shame.

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 2:25 PM | PERMALINK

Happy tax cuts to you!

More made up bullshit that won't stand up to the facts. Just laugh at them.

Saul Alinsky is alive and well on this blog.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 2:26 PM | PERMALINK

Okay, shortstop is gone, so now it's my turn.

I say that I saw teabaggers burning a cross on the front lawn of the White House last night, while wearing propellor beanies and clown shoes.

No, there''s no video of it and no one else saw it, but I say I did.

DISAVOW IT OR BE DEEMED A RACIST!!!!!!

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 2:29 PM | PERMALINK

I'm leaving for a meeting, so you baggers play nice with each other. Enjoy the weather (if it's nice where you are) and your tax cuts.

That's ok. When the "I'm smarterer than you" argument fails, ad hominems fall flat, empty declarations of racism tied to lame attempts to paint others with that brush do not intimidate in to silence, and you have nothing to prove the inanities you babble, you're left with your strategic withdrawal to a meeting.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM | PERMALINK

Frank Davis Marshall

William Ayers

Jeremiah Wright

Is that less vague for you?

Read some of their stuff, I have. These are not small government, lower taxes type of guys. They had a huge influence on Obama. He says that himself.

Posted by: mare on April 16, 2010 at 2:31 PM | PERMALINK

Do we all look alike to you? You used to have the same problem with Asian Americans and African Americans, I'll bet.

Oops, almost missed this little gem.

So now you're accusing ME of being racist. I've posted on this blog for maybe a couple of hours, not made a single racist remark or taken a single racist position, you know nothing about me, and I'm a racist?

This is what the left is all about.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 2:33 PM | PERMALINK

Do you disavow yourself, Hotspur?

Huh??? DO YOU????

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 2:35 PM | PERMALINK

I have to wiser, I have myself on video.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 2:37 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, I didn't think you would.

You non-disavower.

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 2:37 PM | PERMALINK

shortstop, I demand you disavow yourself from that link that you, your very self, posted.

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 2:38 PM | PERMALINK

I know, this is Salem in the 1690s.

This blog is a fucking time machine.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 2:39 PM | PERMALINK

So now you're accusing ME of being racist. I've posted on this blog for maybe a couple of hours, not made a single racist remark or taken a single racist position, you know nothing about me, and I'm a racist?

Well, you did have the temerity to attack their narrative with facts.

That simply won't do in the era of Hopenchange, you dim-witted troglodyte. They are smarter than you. Don't you get that? You simply have no place derailing their narrative with pesky and inconvenient facts, you racist, knuckle-dragging, Klan member. How dare you venture into daylight in that robe and hood. Until you secumb to the enlightenment of newspeak, you simply are too racist to be heard. Do not speak again in their presence, ever, or they will be forced to leave again.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 2:40 PM | PERMALINK

What the teabag is this scrote?

Posted by: big dumbass in spanish on April 16, 2010 at 2:40 PM | PERMALINK

Ooooo, so now you DO disavow your disavowal, huh?

I see through your silly game, you racist. You are a tricky one.....

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 2:40 PM | PERMALINK

Doesn't appear there's any one else left to argue with here boys. Lets go home and see if there's any titties posted yet.

Posted by: big dumbass in spanish on April 16, 2010 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks for sharing that, Jazz! And then there's this. Hmmm.

Yeah - and we have no indication of methodology or how the questions were presented or a host of other questions regarding the "poll." We do know that it was administered through an academic institution (which are overwhelmingly liberal in political make-up) in Washington state (which is also liberal). I'm not saying the study has no value, but there are a lot of questions about objectivity and methodology that I'd have to have answered before I would accept that as any sort of authority.

Moreover, the real question - the one you're trying to change the subject from - revolves around how the Tea Partiers are portrayed as opposed to what they actually do at at a Tea Party rally. I've provided an account from someone - someone who works for a network that advocates the liberal agenda - who actually went to one. Not really seeing much from you in the vein of anything to contrary.

Posted by: Jazz on April 16, 2010 at 2:42 PM | PERMALINK

Well, maybe when shortsock gets back from her racist meeting she'll have the tax cut facts. In the meantime I'm going outside where it's nice and spit on black Congressmen.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 2:44 PM | PERMALINK

Gotta go. mom is calling me for dinner.

Posted by: Hotspu-- I mean Jaz --- I mean wiserb ... oh F it. on April 16, 2010 at 2:47 PM | PERMALINK

Not really seeing much from you in the vein of anything to contrary.

Look, shortstack never had to provide any actual results or engage in critical thinking in high school and she's not going to start now.

RACIST!!1!11!

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 2:50 PM | PERMALINK

I'm going outside where it's nice and spit on black Congressmen.

You know what that means in Tea Bag-ese? "I'm going to go have a nice bologna sandwich and lemonade." Who knew racism could fill your stomach?

Posted by: Jazz on April 16, 2010 at 2:51 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, about those tax cuts...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAl16Jjt9Hs&feature=player_embedded

The Chicago Messiah shouldn't get too wee-wee'd up waiting for my thanks. Right now they are in the same place as his over-hyped intellect.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 2:52 PM | PERMALINK

Posted by: Hotspu-- I mean Jaz --- I mean wiserb ... oh F it.


No, we're still here. Do you have someting to say?

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 2:52 PM | PERMALINK

Nothing of substance, but you didn't really expect otherwise, did you?

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 2:54 PM | PERMALINK

Damn, if I keep looking where leftists gather, this is gonna take forever!

Posted by: Diogenese the Cynic on April 16, 2010 at 2:57 PM | PERMALINK

All I need to know about the Teatards is summed up in their actual actions. For example:

Not a single one of them protested a single, solitary time from 2001 - 2008, when the Bush administration added $6 TRILLION to our national debt.

Yet they complain about a health care bill that will REDUCE the deficit by $10 billion a year?

Not a single one of them protested against torture, or Bush admitting on national TV that he violated the 4th Amendment via his illegal wiretapping program.

Yet letting the Bush tax cuts for the top marginal rate expire is somehow tyranny?

Not a single one of them is paying a penny more in taxes today than they did in 2007 -- in fact, odds are 95% of them are paying less.

Yet they go out and scream about how much they're taxed?

They don't give a damn about deficits, or spending, or taxes, or government abuses, or anything else. If they had, they would've protested Bush's administration. They not only failed to do so, they continually defended it, and voted for those who did things they now suddenly hate.

They are nothing more than a bunch of white, older, upper-middle-class crybabies who are pissed off that their side lost, that Democrats control Congress, and that there's a person in the Oval Office who is Not Like Them.

And it's impossible for them to prove otherwise.

(In fact, I'll pull a not-so-Brietbart and offer $100,000 to anyone who can show me a Tea Party rally held before Obama was inaugurated. Just show me some proof, and the cash is yours.)

Posted by: Mark D on April 16, 2010 at 2:58 PM | PERMALINK


Do you have someting to say?

still waiting.........

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 2:58 PM | PERMALINK

Hotspu-- I mean Jaz --- I mean wiserb ... oh F it says: Gotta go. mom is calling me for dinner

My mother doesn't feed me, which is fine - your mom feeds me her lunch all time. Her tuna melt is awesome.

Posted by: Jazz on April 16, 2010 at 2:59 PM | PERMALINK

This is what the left is all about.

ah yes, you hate broad generalizations, and proceed to use one at the same time you're whining about them.

hey, whatever moronic teabagging website provided the link for you Palin-worshipping halfwits to troll over here can have you all back.
form your typical circle jerk and tell each other how you put all the evil socialist communist nazi libruls in our place.
oh, you're all very smart, Michelle Bachman told you so. LOL
and you're gonna take back the gubmint from the evil libruls this year, just like you beat that evil muslim socialist nazi Obama in '08--just ask Vice President Palin. Oops, NOT! ROTFLMAO!

Posted by: whatever on April 16, 2010 at 2:59 PM | PERMALINK

Not a single one of them protested a single, solitary time from 2001 - 2008, when the Bush administration added $6 TRILLION to our national debt.

bzzzzt! Wrong again.

http://tinyurl.com/y47l7at

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 3:02 PM | PERMALINK

They are nothing more than a bunch of white, older, upper-middle-class crybabies who are pissed off that their side lost, that Democrats control Congress, and that there's a person in the Oval Office who is Not Like Them.

You guys just keep fucking that chicken.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 3:02 PM | PERMALINK

Mark D, they're never gonna get it. They don't want to get it. The complete stupidity of all the new teabagging trolls who suddenly infested this thread proves it.
But just you wait, they're gonna take back the House this year! Just look at all the House special elections they won since Obama took office. Oops, NOT! I'm scared, LOL.

Posted by: whatever on April 16, 2010 at 3:03 PM | PERMALINK

Well, whaddya know? People were agnst out-of-control government spending as far back as October, 2005! Whop was President then? Was it a black guy?

The blog of the conservative Club For Growth has a roundup of bloggers supporting the amendment -- and they include the liberal Daily Kos.

The Daily Kos? Against out-of-control spending???

What a racist!

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 3:06 PM | PERMALINK

Yet they complain about a health care bill that will REDUCE the deficit by $10 billion a year?

...For 4 years, because none of the spending provisions kick in until 2014. After that, it increases spending by trillions.

Next.

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 3:08 PM | PERMALINK

Hey, whatever.

How is that Gitmo closing, Cap & Tax, Card Check, transparent administration, C-Span coverage of health care debate, no lobbyists in the administration, tax cheats in the cabinet, getting out of Iraq, and Afghanistan stuff working out for you?

Yet they complain about a health care bill that will REDUCE the deficit by $10 billion a year?

LOL You're still as gullible as you were in Nov. 2008.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 3:09 PM | PERMALINK

The complete stupidity of all the new teabagging trolls who suddenly infested this thread proves it.

You forgot "nyahh, nyahh, nyahh...."

stoopid.

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 3:09 PM | PERMALINK

I love how a bunch of loons who overwhelmingly support the GOP claim that the left are the real racists.

It's funny since it was the GOP who institutionalized bigotry into their political strategy, and even apologized for the Southern Strategy at the NAACP convention a few years back.

That strategy was summed up well by its architect, Lee Atwater:

You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

Note: A full 54% of Teatards think that the government does too much to help blacks.

And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."

And then, of course, the high-quality human that is Bill Bennett, who said:

I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose -- you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down.''

But, yeah, it's the left that are the true racists.

I'm not sure how the TPers manage to exist in a wholly separate reality from 99% of the rest of the world, but somehow they've managed ...

Posted by: Mark D on April 16, 2010 at 3:09 PM | PERMALINK

Mark D, they're never gonna get it. They don't want to get it. The complete stupidity of all the new teabagging trolls who suddenly infested this thread proves it.


Ha! Bunker mentality.

Posted by: Uniball on April 16, 2010 at 3:11 PM | PERMALINK

Hey, Mark D.!

http://bostontea.us/node/580

'The Boston Tea Party was founded in 2006 with a platform that "supports reducing the size, scope and power of government at all levels and on all issues, and opposes increasing the size, scope and power of government at any level, for any purpose."'

I'd like that $100,000 in cash and tax free, if you please.

I am feelthy rich.

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 3:11 PM | PERMALINK

Not a single one of them is paying a penny more in taxes today than they did in 2007 -- in fact, odds are 95% of them are paying less.

Wrong again. While only a few taxes have increased on the middle class so far, all evidence points to a massive increase in taxes over the next 3 to 5 years, and quite possibly the addition of a VAT to everything you buy.

So perhaps your income taxes have not increased (yet), but many, many other new taxes and "fees (a cutesy term for taxes) are coming at us all like a frieght train. And you idiots seem hell bent on simply laying down on the tracks and letting them run you over.

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 3:13 PM | PERMALINK

Holy Shit, Towel! Let's party like it's 2012.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 3:19 PM | PERMALINK

Partay at Wiser's house!

Just as soon as Mark makes good on his offer.

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 3:21 PM | PERMALINK

What fun this is to witness the Tea Party exposing their vapid(look it up) ignorance on this thread. I know that, if I'm lucky, there will be an onslaught from the T.P. people. Maybe shortstop, in her humility, won't say this, but I will. Yes, I am much smarter and better-informed than the clan that has been defecating on this site for the past couple of hours, and so it shortstop. No, I don't have film or video or cell-phone recordings of the well-documented verbal abuse to which many are referring. The fact that Fox News does not report on the well-documented lies of certain Congresspeople is proof enough for me that reports of racial and homophobic remarks are, in fact, true. How will you unravel that last statement?

Blessings and peace,
st john

Posted by: st john on April 16, 2010 at 3:21 PM | PERMALINK

I was so excited about earning that $100,000 that I forgot to say they had a convention (you know, a rally, or a gathering) in 2006.

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 3:23 PM | PERMALINK

While only a few taxes have increased on the middle class so far, all evidence points to a massive increase in taxes over the next 3 to 5 years, and quite possibly the addition of a VAT to everything you buy.

ooh, stupidbud looks into its crystal ball and sees that the evul communist nazi Obama will raise taxes sometime in the future with a VAT.
So you're saying that he'll adopt Republicon Paul Ryan's tax plan? You might want to actually read it before you teabaggers realize that you were played for chumps by the GOP yet again.
But thanks for the warning, Nostradumbass.

Posted by: whatever on April 16, 2010 at 3:23 PM | PERMALINK

No, I don't have film or video or cell-phone recordings of the well-documented verbal abuse to which many are referring.

Thanks for making our point. Now run along and make some more shit up.

We'll wait.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 3:24 PM | PERMALINK

"I know that, if I'm lucky, there will be an onslaught from the T.P. people."

The only way you'll see violence at a Tea Party is if one of yours starts it. As your side always does.

But you keep praying for the cold civil war to go hot, you great patriot, you.

Posted by: leon the puritanical on April 16, 2010 at 3:25 PM | PERMALINK

Let's party like it's 2012.

have fun, I hope you losers don't have as much trouble accepting complete defeat and rejection by the voters as you've had since 2008.
Just cash your SS checks, get drunk, and accept that you've lost this time.

Posted by: whatever on April 16, 2010 at 3:28 PM | PERMALINK

No, I don't have film or video or cell-phone recordings of the well-documented verbal abuse to which many are referring.

I don't think "well-documented" means what you think it means.

Posted by: Jazz on April 16, 2010 at 3:28 PM | PERMALINK

Just as soon as Mark makes good on his offer.

Mark will retract his baseless remarks about the "racist teabaggers" before he actually pays off on his challenge.

Obama is a nice, light-skinned Negro who doesn't speak in a Negro dialect, unless he wants to. - Sen. Harry Reid (D)

"A few years ago, this guy (Obama) would be getting us coffee." - Bill Clinton (D)

"You cannot go to a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian Accent." - Vice President Joe Biden (D)

You want to trade racist remarks made by people to prove that one side or another is racist, we can do this all day.

I like how you took Bennet's remarks completely and totally out of context. Typical of one who completely misunderstood the point he was making. Which, if you bothered to read the full quote in context, you would see that his remarks completely u ndermine whatever idiotic point you were trying to make.

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 3:28 PM | PERMALINK

Mark D.! Mark D.!

Yooooo Hooooo!

I want my money.

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 3:28 PM | PERMALINK

ooh, stupidbud looks into its crystal ball and sees that the evul communist nazi Obama will raise taxes sometime in the future with a VAT.

Call them names, mock them, lie about them.

It's all in the book.

http://tinyurl.com/y39kcyy

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 3:28 PM | PERMALINK

Whatever, you better take up a collection for Mark. He owes Towel some money, and I don't think his welfare check is going to quite cover it.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 3:31 PM | PERMALINK

Virginia nailed it at 11:45.

Posted by: Sarah Barracuda on April 16, 2010 at 3:33 PM | PERMALINK

Not a single one of them protested a single, solitary time from 2001 - 2008, when the Bush administration added $6 TRILLION to our national debt.

Yeah. Funny thing that. Unlike anti-war protestors of the same era, many of the people you complain about had jobs during the Bush years. Now? Not so much. And while we weren't pleased about the deficit, comparing eight years to The Chicago Messiah eclipsing that obsenity with one even greater in one year? That's just overcompensation for his feelings of inadequacy.

Yet they complain about a health care bill that will REDUCE the deficit by $10 billion a year?

If you believe that, I have a bridge in Tacoma that I'd love to sell you.

Not a single one of them protested against torture,

When torture happens, I'll consider it, but waterboarding doesn't meet the threshhold, sparky.

or Bush admitting on national TV that he violated the 4th Amendment via his illegal wiretapping program.

Really? Citizens of other countries talking to people here have 4th Amendment rights? That result would turn most of what I learned in law school on its head.

i>Not a single one of them is paying a penny more in taxes today than they did in 2007 -- in fact, odds are 95% of them are paying less.

So certain...and so wrong. I got a refund in '08, and paid last year, and paid a lot this year.

Yet they go out and scream about how much they're taxed?

Sadly, I wasn't able to. I spent the day yesterday working to pay the taxes that 47% of Americans don't pay.

They don't give a damn about deficits, or spending, or taxes, or government abuses, or anything else. If they had, they would've protested Bush's administration. They not only failed to do so, they continually defended it, and voted for those who did things they now suddenly hate.

Actually, I'm irritated that the federal government continually expands into areas that are not within its jurisdiction, and when pressed to cite its authority for doing so, makes weak arguments citing the general welfare clause, the commerce clause, and the necessary and proper clause that so stretch and distort those clauses beyond elastisity into perversions that would would have had Madison standing on top of his desk screaming at the top of his lungs, and even Hamilton looking at the general public and screaming "What the Hell is wrong with you people???"

But if I am to assume that you are upset because the tea party members were not protesting your litany during the Bush years, you are ok with Obama doubling down now, since you appear to be outraged by their behavior, then what has changed? The (d) after the name, or the sonorous voice with the practiced preacher's cadence, making the empty words rolling on the teleprompter sound so soothing?

They are nothing more than a bunch of white, older, upper-middle-class crybabies who are pissed off that their side lost,

No, I am an American who is upset that my government continually subtitutes its judgment for my own, and tells me that it is good for me, while it sticks me with the bill and tells me that I'm a racist because I think that I know better how my money should be spent, especially when it comes to my health care.

that Democrats control Congress,

Newsflash: Dems controlled Congress during Bush's second term too.

and that there's a person in the Oval Office who is Not Like Them.

No, unlike the sheeple who voted for the Chicago Messiah out of a desire to "be part of history", or to assuage imagined white guilt, or because they foolishly believed that they were the ones they had been waiting for, or that they believed that it would usher in an era of "post-racial America" (something that can never happen as long as race-pimps like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton draw breath) I simply wanted someone who hadn't been on record stating that the Constitution was a flawed document because it didn't have any mechanisms to enact wealth redistribution and "social justice", and who hadn't campaigned on a love of America and a deep desire to "fundamentally change" it.

And it's impossible for them to prove otherwise.

Except that I can.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 3:34 PM | PERMALINK

Awwwwww, they're so cute when they call other people stupid, after showing their own asses repeatedly......

ooh, stupidbud looks into its crystal ball and sees that the evul communist nazi Obama will raise taxes sometime in the future with a VAT.

Yeah, wherever would I get that silly idea from, huh?

Obama Economic Adviser Says U.S. Should Consider 'Value-Added Tax'

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 3:35 PM | PERMALINK

Business tax issues some here were looking for:

Bonus Depreciation: Helps businesses quickly recover costs of new capital investments by extending the increased bonus depreciation for businesses making investments in new plants and equipment in 2009.

Small Business Expensing: Spurs small business investment by extending small business expensing, doubling the amount small businesses can immediately write off their taxes for capital investments and purchases of new equipment made in 2009 ($125,000 to $250,000). This write-off phases out completely for investments over $800,000 (up from $500,000).

Buying Back Debt: Provides assistance to companies looking to reduce their debt burdens by delaying the tax on businesses that have discharged indebtedness, which will help these companies strengthen their balance sheets so they can invest in job creation.

Small Business Loss Carrybacks: Increases cash flow for small businesses by providing a 5-year carryback of net operating losses (NOLs). This would allow many small businesses to write off losses incurred in 2008 against taxes assessed over the previous 5 years (current law limits NOL carryback to the previous 2 years), thereby reducing their taxes this spring.

Small Business Investment: Spurs investments in small businesses by cutting the capital gains tax on investors in small businesses who buy stock (in the next two years) and hold it for more than 5 years.

Jobs for Recently Discharged Unemployed Veterans and Disconnected Youth: Creates jobs with business tax credits for hiring recently discharged unemployed veterans who have been out of work or youth who have been out of school for 6 months prior to hire.

Posted by: flyonthewall on April 16, 2010 at 3:37 PM | PERMALINK

"you might actually drive by one - or, heaven forefend, you might just get out of your car and walk around at one - just to see firsthand what these things are about"

Just like those guys that the teabaggers called the cops on.

Jazz, and by that I mean "Negro music," is insulted by your use of its name.

Posted by: Sarah Barracuda on April 16, 2010 at 3:38 PM | PERMALINK

I want my two dollars!

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 3:40 PM | PERMALINK

Business tax issues some here were looking for:

Not one of those is a cut.

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 3:41 PM | PERMALINK

Yes, I am much smarter and better-informed than the clan that has been defecating on this site for the past couple of hours, and so it shortstop.

"so it shortstop"? WTF does that mean, st. john?

Hey, shortstop -- SO IT!

"I am much smarter" Yep.

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs on April 16, 2010 at 3:41 PM | PERMALINK

Just like those guys that the teabaggers called the cops on.

You mean the guy who was attempting to incite the crowd to violence and failed miserably?

Yeah,, how dare those damn teabaggers try to maintain the peace at what was meant to be a peaceful rally.

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 3:43 PM | PERMALINK

tax issues

So that's how they say tax cuts....hmmmmm

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 3:43 PM | PERMALINK

Maybe shortstop, in her humility, won't say this, but I will. Yes, I am much smarter and better-informed than the clan that has been defecating on this site for the past couple of hours, and so it shortstop. No, I don't have film or video or cell-phone recordings of the well-documented verbal abuse to which many are referring.

Color me unconvinced of the supposed big-brained supremacy of the shortbus-st john think tank. You are convinced it happened because a "reporter" and a Congressman claimed it happened, despite all the actual evidence being to the contrary. Maybe its ten years of being in a profession that demands more than hearsay and naked assertions to be convinced, but it seems to me that if all it takes is someone else's account of what you want to hear, you really aren't as bright as you think yourself to be.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 3:45 PM | PERMALINK

and by that I mean "Negro music,"

The best part of this thread is the progressives happily venting their Inner Racist.

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs on April 16, 2010 at 3:50 PM | PERMALINK

Bonus Depreciation: Helps businesses quickly recover costs of new capital investments by extending the increased bonus depreciation for businesses making investments in new plants and equipment in 2009.

Predicated on the business actually being able to or in need of new capital investments. In an economy like this the last thing businesses will do is spend money they don't have to get a tax break that speeds them to insolvency.

Small Business Expensing: Spurs small business investment by extending small business expensing, doubling the amount small businesses can immediately write off their taxes for capital investments and purchases of new equipment made in 2009 ($125,000 to $250,000). This write-off phases out completely for investments over $800,000 (up from $500,000).

Same as above.

Buying Back Debt: Provides assistance to companies looking to reduce their debt burdens by delaying the tax on businesses that have discharged indebtedness, which will help these companies strengthen their balance sheets so they can invest in job creation.

Hard to discharge indebtedness when you are laying off workers because you have no work. See above.

Small Business Loss Carrybacks: Increases cash flow for small businesses by providing a 5-year carryback of net operating losses (NOLs). This would allow many small businesses to write off losses incurred in 2008 against taxes assessed over the previous 5 years (current law limits NOL carryback to the previous 2 years), thereby reducing their taxes this spring.

What if there were no losses?

Small Business Investment: Spurs investments in small businesses by cutting the capital gains tax on investors in small businesses who buy stock (in the next two years) and hold it for more than 5 years.

Yeah, like investors are really fired up about putting cash into struggling businesses that cannot demonstrate a market for their goods or services because the economy is in the shitter.

Jobs for Recently Discharged Unemployed Veterans and Disconnected Youth: Creates jobs with business tax credits for hiring recently discharged unemployed veterans who have been out of work or youth who have been out of school for 6 months prior to hire.

Look at the unemployment numbers which week after week are reported as "unexpected increases." I'll bet a lot of those veterans and youth are gtting hired.

Fail.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 3:54 PM | PERMALINK

Not one of those is a cut.

Really?

Spurs investments in small businesses by cutting the capital gains tax on investors in small businesses who buy stock (in the next two years) and hold it for more than 5 years.

In anticipation of what will follow, did Bush cut taxes permanently?

Posted by: flyonthewall on April 16, 2010 at 3:57 PM | PERMALINK

Jazz, see how they oppress us?

What's next? Changing what we post?

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 4:01 PM | PERMALINK

Shorter st. john:

I is smarter! I is! I is! I IS!!!!

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 4:01 PM | PERMALINK

did Bush cut taxes permanently?

Of course not. All tax cuts have automatic sunset provisions, no matter who enacts them. I thought everyone knew that.

That's how Obama is able to let the Bush tac cuts sunset (i.e. expire), allow tax rates to skyrocket back up ... and say he didn't raise taxes. Good luck with that, chief.

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs on April 16, 2010 at 4:05 PM | PERMALINK

Spurs investments in small businesses by cutting the capital gains tax on investors in small businesses who buy stock (in the next two years) and hold it for more than 5 years.

So, you have to spend money to get recieve the cut in potential capital gains, which you may or may not realize.

How does that help small businesses that need the actual reductionin taxes again?

In anticipation of what will follow, did Bush cut taxes permanently?

He tried. Dems would not allow the tax cuts to become permanent.

But you just keep invoking the hated Bush. It makes your argument so much more convincing.

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 4:05 PM | PERMALINK

Small Business Loss Carrybacks: Increases cash flow for small businesses by providing a 5-year carryback of net operating losses (NOLs). This would allow many small businesses to write off losses incurred in 2008 against taxes assessed over the previous 5 years (current law limits NOL carryback to the previous 2 years), thereby reducing their taxes this spring.

What if there were no losses?

Don't sweat it. For the small business that remain when we get to 2012, this might be a good thing.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 4:09 PM | PERMALINK

But you just keep invoking the hated Bush. It makes your argument so much more convincing

Show me where I said I hated Bush? It's not there, so end of discussion with someone who lacks reading comprehension skills and makes shit up and pyschologically projects there shortcomings unto someone else. Psychological projection is a mental disorder. Seek help.

Posted by: flyonthewall on April 16, 2010 at 4:15 PM | PERMALINK

Psychological projection is a mental disorder. Seek help.

This is the point about racism that we've been trying to make all day with you lefties.

Posted by: Hotspur on April 16, 2010 at 4:18 PM | PERMALINK

Gee, I made a typo @ st john on April 16, 2010 at 3:21 PM. "And so is..." Glad to be of service to your vast editorial skills.
You know, there are some new threads on this blog since this was posted. You may want to check them out and add your brilliance to the discussion.

Posted by: st john on April 16, 2010 at 4:19 PM | PERMALINK

Show me where I said I hated Bush? It's not there, so end of discussion with someone who lacks reading comprehension skills and makes shit up and pyschologically projects there shortcomings unto someone else.

He didn't say YOU hated Bush, he said "the hated Bush," which is fair given Bush's approval numbers at the close of his presidency. YOUR reading comprehension skills seem to be lacking and you most definitely are "making shit up." And "there shortcomings"? Wiser didn't project any insecurity about spelling. (Yeah, it's a cheap shot, but you're acting like cheap shit, so I'll take it.)

Posted by: Jazz on April 16, 2010 at 4:20 PM | PERMALINK

Show me where I said I hated Bush? It's not there, so end of discussion with someone who lacks reading comprehension skills

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!!!

yeah, okay.

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 4:24 PM | PERMALINK

Gee, I made a typo @

Self-proclaimed smart people do not do that. Especially in the very sentence in which they boast about their superior intellect, jill.

Posted by: Cuffy Meigs on April 16, 2010 at 4:25 PM | PERMALINK

Holy crap - did this post get linked to by some right-wing hack site? What else would explain the flood of stupid this thread has seen?

Only someone who failed out of the part of math class where they taught subtraction could insist that tax credits are completely different than tax "cuts"; and it takes a real douchebag to call it a "lie" (and in all caps) to say that paying X less is the same as not having to pay X as much.

And only morons who don't understand population distributions could possibly be confused by the relative influence of the LaRouches in the Democratic party compared to the TeaBaggers in the GOP. This is a ridiculous false equivalency, but then ridiculous false equivalencies are the foundation of virtually all right-wing rhetorical bullshit.

And only people who don't understand how time works would think that video taken four hours after something happened somehow "proves" that the event didn't happen four hours earlier.

And only people who don't have the slightest concept of standard of proof make claims and then insist that they be taken at face value until disproven.

And only people with zero concept of irony would show up on a discussion board to dispute the notion that teabaggers are aggressive and stupid, by being aggressive and stupid in their defense.

Posted by: DH Walker on April 16, 2010 at 4:25 PM | PERMALINK

Hmmm, seems the blog had a bit of a hiccup there.

It couldn't possibly be that someone is deleting comments here, could it?


Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 4:33 PM | PERMALINK

And only people who don't have the slightest concept of standard of proof make claims and then insist that they be taken at face value until disproven.

And only leftists would make baseless accusations, then demand that someone else disprove a negative.

by being aggressive

You call this "aggressive?" Wow. Now ownder the Tea Partiers scare you so much.

Posted by: wiserbud on April 16, 2010 at 4:34 PM | PERMALINK

Only someone who failed out of the part of math class where they taught subtraction could insist that tax credits are completely different than tax "cuts"; and it takes a real douchebag to call it a "lie" (and in all caps) to say that paying X less is the same as not having to pay X as much.

A "new" hire tax credit is NOT the same thing as a small business tax cut. First, you have to hire someone to get the "credit."

A credit is only a "tax cut" if you are eligible. And you fill it out.

I'm not eligible for the New house tax credit (didn't buy a house this year) or the "green car" tax credit, because I didn't buy one, or the "green upgrades" tax credit because I didn't modify my house in any way.

People who don't have kids are eligible for the kids tax credit (sorry Cuffy, sucks to be you) and people who make "too much" aren't eligible for the earned income tax "credit."

Posted by: Carin on April 16, 2010 at 4:35 PM | PERMALINK

Also, I don't have any kids currently in college, so I don't get that credit either.

Posted by: carin on April 16, 2010 at 4:36 PM | PERMALINK

I can't believe I saw it with my own lying eyes. You just deleted Cuffy's comment where he said "Please don't delete my comments" ?

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 4:40 PM | PERMALINK

Only someone who failed out of the part of math class where they taught subtraction could insist that tax credits are completely different than tax "cuts"; and it takes a real douchebag to call it a "lie" (and in all caps) to say that paying X less is the same as not having to pay X as much.

We had a phrase for people who said things this stupid when I was earning my LL.M in taxation.

"Enjoy taking the class again."

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 4:41 PM | PERMALINK

Tea partiers: We tried it your way, between 1787 and 1860. It didn't work.

You've had your fun, now go home.

Posted by: dr sardonicus on April 16, 2010 at 4:41 PM | PERMALINK

And only leftists would make baseless accusations

Wiser - "Baseless" is a word that a lot of right-wingers use, but very few of them actually know what it means. My views on teabaggers are based on quite a few things, from serveral people I know personally to the endless youtube videos that you're obviously too lazy or dishonest to watch.

Carin - Are you seriously saying that if someone can't use a particular tax credit, it means that it doesn't exist? If you don't get a free cone on Baskin Robins' free cone day, that means that there were no free cones, and anyone who says otherwise is a big liar? Or does this simple concept elude you?

Cuffy - I find it very telling that so many wingers (here and elsewhere) are so hypersensitive to anyone thinking themselves to be smarter than them. Why do so many of you have this particular chip on your shoulder? Um, that's a rhetorical question, by the way.

Posted by: DH Walker on April 16, 2010 at 4:49 PM | PERMALINK

Tea partiers: We tried it your way, between 1787 and 1860. It didn't work.

You've had your fun, now go home.

I am home. But if you want to live under a cradle-to-grave nannyarchy, then move to Europe, where the failed welfare state is about to collapse, rather than attempting to fund utopia on the backs of my children.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 4:50 PM | PERMALINK

"Carin - Are you seriously saying that if someone can't use a particular tax credit, it means that it doesn't exist? If you don't get a free cone on Baskin Robins' free cone day, that means that there were no free cones, and anyone who says otherwise is a big liar? Or does this simple concept elude you?"

Please tell me this is not what you call logical thinking.

Posted by: Towel on April 16, 2010 at 4:52 PM | PERMALINK

arin - Are you seriously saying that if someone can't use a particular tax credit, it means that it doesn't exist? If you don't get a free cone on Baskin Robins' free cone day, that means that there were no free cones, and anyone who says otherwise is a big liar? Or does this simple concept elude you?

Seriously. I'm seriously saying it's disingenuous to say Obama "cut taxes" when in reality he merely came up with credits for various, government approved, activities. So, for all you lying liars to say that I, or other Tea Partiers, got tax cuts - when I didn't get shit - is untrue.

My husband runs a small business, and Obama DIDN'T LOWER HIS TAXES. We're just hanging on. Had to let a guy go, in fact.

I repeat. OBAMA DID NOT LOWER OUR SMALL BUSINESS TAXES.

EOL.

Posted by: Carin on April 16, 2010 at 4:54 PM | PERMALINK

find it very telling that so many wingers (here and elsewhere) are so hypersensitive to anyone thinking themselves to be smarter than them.

Actually, I find it hilarious that often people, in debate, declare themselves smarter than I. I honestly have never had a need to declare myself brighter than whomever I am debating with.

I think it's some sort of weird affirmation liberals have grown accustomed to. A Stuart Smally kind of thing.

Posted by: carin on April 16, 2010 at 4:56 PM | PERMALINK

I get a big kick of people saying they're smarter than Cuffy.

'cause your not. And I laugh and laugh.

Posted by: carin on April 16, 2010 at 4:58 PM | PERMALINK

Cuffy - I find it very telling that so many wingers (here and elsewhere) are so hypersensitive to anyone thinking themselves to be smarter than them. Why do so many of you have this particular chip on your shoulder? Um, that's a rhetorical question, by the way.

Hypersensitivity? No. Most of the time when I see someone making the claim, it evokes the image of my 10 year old trying to speak adamantly about things he knows nothing about. The reason we make light of it is the ridiculous ways the claim is made in an attempt to avoid any proof of the silly assertions these intellectual powerhouses are making, or the claim being used as a ham-fisted attempt to squelch dissenting opinion ("The debate is over"), or to condescendingly justify doing something that exceeds the authority of those who fancy themselves to be smarterer than the rest of us.

And if you knew what Cuffy does for a living, you might realize that your aspiring MENSA candidacy is woefully inadequate.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 4:58 PM | PERMALINK

And if you knew what Cuffy does for a living...

Christ, they all know each other. Probably shared the same copy of Atlas Shrugged, too.

Posted by: dr sardonicus on April 16, 2010 at 5:03 PM | PERMALINK

Carin - simple question, and be honest (if you're capable): did you pay more in taxes in 2008 or in 2009? Simple question.

And yes, saying that because you couldn't take advantage of certain tax credits, that means that they didn't exist, is pretty stupid. Remind me again: what is it that you couldn't take advantage of? Something that Obama never created?

And finally, you really don't seem to understand the difference between calling oneself "smart" and calling someone else "stupid". I, for instance, don't think I have to be that smart to see all of this teabagger horseshit for what it is.

And nothing here has been a "debate", by the way. Just a bunch of trolls filling up the thread space with pointless yelling and ridiculous nonsense. "Obama didn't cut taxes because I didn't benefit" is (even if true) one of the stupider things I've heard in a while, and a laughably flimsy basis for calling anyone a liar.

Oh, and how dare a moderator of a discussion board weed out some of the ultra-repetitive, content-free posts! And of course, this is something I should be criticized for, not being the moderator and all.

And you people are actually perplexed by why us "lefties" think you're a bunch of morons? Really?

Posted by: DH Walker on April 16, 2010 at 5:08 PM | PERMALINK

And if you knew what Cuffy does for a living, you might realize that your aspiring MENSA candidacy is woefully inadequate.

Man, you guys really do have a complex about this.

My "candidacy" is "inadequate"? What does that even mean?

Posted by: DH Walker on April 16, 2010 at 5:11 PM | PERMALINK

And yes, saying that because you couldn't take advantage of certain tax credits, that means that they didn't exist, is pretty stupid. Remind me again: what is it that you couldn't take advantage of? Something that Obama never created?

Wow. You must be really tired. I mean, to hike the goal posts from all the way over there to over here, you must have a really strong back.

Carin never denied that there were tax credits, but she did (rightly) point out that they are not tax cuts. They are two different things, and no amount of linguistic alchemy will transmute your dross into gold, no matter how hard you spin or prevaricate. But please continue. I do find it entertaining.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 5:18 PM | PERMALINK

My �candidacy� is �inadequate�? What does that even mean?

The question illustrates the truth of the statement.

Apparently that decade pushing on the door marked "Pull" at the Midvale School For the Gifted took its toll. Not to worry. Under the coming nannyarchy, someone will be by to change your diaper and replace your dented sippycup twice a month, whether you need it or not.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 5:25 PM | PERMALINK

I mean, to hike the goal posts from all the way over there to over here ...

So, you have read, what, none of the preceding thread?

They are two different things, and no amount of linguistic alchemy will transmute your dross into gold, no matter how hard you spin or prevaricate.

Wow, I guess it would take a teabagger to describe simple arithmetic as "linguistic alchemy". Confuse us not with your numbers, sorceror!


Posted by: DH Walker on April 16, 2010 at 5:26 PM | PERMALINK

Apparently that decade pushing on the door marked "Pull" at the Midvale School For the Gifted ... [blah blah blah]

Dude - really. On and on and on with this hang-up about people thinking they're smarter than you. It's reduced (?) you to a blubbering middle-school bully. It's making you say ridiculous things like "MENSA" and "candidacy" that make no sense.

The bottom line, that a lot of wingers can't see past their hangups to understand, is that ignorance is curable. I don't, for instance, think I'm a sup-r-genius because I know what subtraction is. On the other hand, it is pretty stupid to insist that simple arithmetic is some kind of con-artist voodoo. And it's not just stupid - it's unnecessary stupidity. You believe things like this because of perceived political and ideological need, and that's a choice to be stupid where you don't have to be.

Posted by: DH Walker on April 16, 2010 at 5:38 PM | PERMALINK

I'm just amazed that nobody knows how to critically think THEIR OWN arguments anymore. I see a lot of very smug people thinking they're better informed than the other side, and they really just know the half of the story that they've been programmed to regurgitate. There's no nuance, there's no subtlety, it's all hyperbole and a refusal to look at things from any other perspective.

This is why the country's going down the tubes. You can pin it on the lefties or the righties, but the fact is everyone is so goddamned sure that they're right, and the other guy's an idiot, that nobody listens to each other anymore. Past a certain point, it doesn't matter who's right or wrong, because you no longer have a functioning unified country anymore.

There was a time when people could disagree on beliefs, on policy, on how to interpret facts. But now everybody tunes into whatever news source makes them happy, rejects the rest as "biased," and goes on their merry way.

This is a recipe for disaster. It is the most idiotic thing I've ever seen...a bunch of six year olds in a sandbox going "nyah nyah," not having any desire to find common ground or even acknowledging the need for it. And the rest of us pay the price when our country goes down the sh*tter because we're all at each other's throats because we're being played by the people in the media who tell us exactly what we want to hear, and that the other half of the country is the enemy.

I have my political sympathies like everybody else, but at this point, I would like to take partisans everywhere, left and right, and fricking lock them in a box and send them to the bottom of the sea for about four years, and let people who actually want to live in the same country figure out some way to move forward that works for all of us.

Posted by: adam on April 16, 2010 at 5:39 PM | PERMALINK

Oh, and for those of you who will take the "lock them in the box" comment at complete face value and call me a mass murder-advocating Nazi (as I don't doubt someone will based on the level of insight demonstrated in this thread) -- I wasn't seriously advocating mass murder...and I can't believe our society has descended to the level of blind idiocy that I would need to explicitly say that.

Posted by: adam on April 16, 2010 at 5:43 PM | PERMALINK

Adam, I appreciate your sentiments, but consider the following:

Let's say I make 50k, and I wind up paying $5k in taxes. This leaves me with $45k.

Now, scenario 1: I get a $2k tax credit. This means that I wind up paying only $3k in taxes, yielding $47k.

Scenario 2: I get a $2k tax cut, making my income $52k. Paying my $5k in taxes leaves me with $47k.

So what you're complaining about isn't a left-vs-right issue. This is an argument between one side who says that 47 equals 47, and another side that insists that it doesn't. THIS is what's sending the country down the tubes.

Posted by: DH Walker on April 16, 2010 at 5:48 PM | PERMALINK

You people are idiots, no offense or anything, but get with the program. You say that Bush's tax cuts blew out the deficit, yes it did, but how much did Bush's budget deficits add up to? About $2T over 8 years, unacceptable, but compare that to Obama's with a year into the job, he is pushing $3T and we have $1T+ deficits as far as the eye can see. I realize you all think thee is a money tree out back that you can kick to get more money, but the U.S.'s money tree is dead or dying. The rich will leave or simply make less leading to less tax revenue. Are you going to be so loving of Obama when we get a VAT and everything goes up by 10-20%? Also, the "tax cuts" Obama implemented actually led to more penalties by the IRS depending on how you file, but let's not let the facts get in the way of your ranting. I am also perplexed that you blame Bush's tax cuts for everything and how bad they were, but his tax cuts eliminated taxes for the poor and dropped the minimum tax rate from 15% to 10% (Obama is keeping the MAJORITY of the Bush tax cuts). in short, Bush has saved you more money than the $400/$800 Obama gave you and that the IRS F'ed you over with. You people are just unbelievable. You have no facts and just ideology which makes you all hypocrites. The Tea Party people aren't racist, no one ever proved they yelled racist slurs during the health care bill, but Olberman and Maddow all scream racists so they must be! That makes sense. Have you considered that blacks and other minorities are not as politically active as whites? As despicable as the likes of Hannity are they are far less partisan than an Olberman or Maddow. The bottom line is this, your taxes will go higher no matter what tax bracket you are in. The US will default on its debt within 5 years. Deficits will go higher and health care, although taxes start next year, will go unfunded until 2014. You will see how dangerous these deficits are when you are penniless. Why did Obama get so much money from Wall St, $23M which was more than any other candidate in the primary or election? Is it because he has taken care of Wall St? They all got their bonuses in Jan 2009 and Jan 2010. One more fact for you people, 33M are on food stamps, up 15% since Obama took office, yeah things are so much better. So go on and keep your head buried in the sand with your partisan political BS. As for me, I will go back to hating both parties because I use my head versus you people who are just plain ignorant.

Posted by: Blah, Blah, Blah on April 16, 2010 at 5:55 PM | PERMALINK

"...winger blah blah blah ignorant blah blah blah stupidity blah blah blah a tax credit is income to you whether or not you are eligible and the same thing as a cut blah blah blah..."

Call me when you decide to stop with Olbermann's talking points.

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 6:05 PM | PERMALINK

I think it is time to stop feeding Jazz.

Posted by: Sarah Barracuda on April 16, 2010 at 7:17 PM | PERMALINK

So if something isn't recorded, it didn't happen?

Or if there is no link to something, it didn't happen?

You all need to trust your technology less or you're in danger of mistaking the internet for reality.

Posted by: Sarah Barracuda on April 16, 2010 at 8:05 PM | PERMALINK

Hotspur, you posted after saying, "Bye."

You goin' or not? Cuz I want make sure the door doesn't hit you on your way out.

Your crying and whining are SO annoying.

Posted by: Sarah Barracuda on April 16, 2010 at 8:12 PM | PERMALINK

Good lord, isn't there a spray or something to prevent these sort of infestations?
I do have one question for Stewart, Carin, Jazz et al: what does it really feel like to be losers? It must be amazing, as I've never seen such a exuberant display of ignorance and willful misrepresentation for lo these many months. At least not since the last Palin speech I viewed.
And don't try to deny that you're losers; after all, you've amply demonstrated it all afternoon.
D.E. Stamate
USN (ret)

Posted by: Doug on April 16, 2010 at 8:21 PM | PERMALINK

Stewart Coldwater at 3:34 provides a nice little litany of Tea PARTY delusions.

As to wiserbud asking if I was referring to people trying to ""attempting to incite the crowd to violence", no. I was referring to people carrying signs SUPPORTING the President. Or does merely supporting the President incite you to violence?

And, Cuffy? Screw you. Jazz was invented by black people, who were at the time called "Negros" by polite people, at the choice of Negros. By calling himself "Jazz" the asshat using that name is insulting to black people and their music. What's more, NOT all tax cuts have sunsets. Bush's did because without the sunsets, he could not have accomplished them through budget reconciliation, and they would have been subject to being filibustered by the Democrats. You're really showing a bit of ignorance with THAT statement all by itself. AND Obama won't be "letting" the tax cuts sunset. It would take an act of Congress to avoid the sunset. The sunset was BUILT IN to the tax cuts. Again, total failure of understanding the Bush tax cuts and why they were so egregious.

"Holy crap - did this post get linked to by some right-wing hack site? What else would explain the flood of stupid this thread has seen?" Maybe, and maybe it's just one jerk in pajamas using several different names. The tone and style of the posts, along with the quick response, suggest that may be the case.

And Towel? Are you perhaps "Mr. Towel"? That would explain a lot.

Re "tax cuts" not including a cut in capital gains taxes under certain circumstances, that would mean Bush didn't cut estate taxes, because the vast majorities of estates in this country don't PAY estate tax. Just doesn't follow, sorry.

Finally, just have to say it's frustrating to put my two cents in after everyone has gone home. /pout

Posted by: Sarah Barracuda on April 16, 2010 at 8:45 PM | PERMALINK

Christ, they all know each other. Probably shared the same copy of Atlas Shrugged, too.

At the very least, they're all sharing Carin.

Posted by: Taggart Transvaginal Inc. on April 16, 2010 at 8:46 PM | PERMALINK

Well, of course.

Posted by: dr sardonicus on April 16, 2010 at 8:57 PM | PERMALINK

Finally, just have to say it's frustrating to put my two cents in after everyone has gone home. /pout

If you really want to come say it to our faces, we're at http://thehostages.wordpress.com

We'd do it here, but the brave moderators of this blog chose to demonstrate the usual liberal tolerance of dissenting opinion and banned many of us.

Still, if you mean what you say, you're welcome to play in our sandbox. We don't ban, moderate, or edit comments. And the dogs are hungry. Its been awhile since we've had a chew toy.

[no, the moderators allowed your opinions as is evidenced upthread but removed the later comments that were nothing but trolling "sandbox" remarks -- mod.]

Posted by: Stewart Coldwater on April 16, 2010 at 9:48 PM | PERMALINK

Presumably you see yourselves as hostages to the social contract. The real pity is that none of you would survive five minutes in the world you think you want to live in.

Posted by: dr sardonicus on April 16, 2010 at 10:12 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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