The Republicans DO have an incentive to lie with impunity! That incentive is media exposure and complicity.

It's not a matter of belief.

They own the media. They set the rules of the debate. The era of journalism is long over. There are no reporters to challenge them, no editors to order their statements checked against reality.

They've been working towards this state of affairs for at least 30 years. As far as the neofasicsts are concerned, Reagan's one truly great accomplishment was dismantling the Fairness Doctrine. That was the pebble that started the avalanche.

It's not going to help them. The cracks in their monolith are showing- Grassley voting for the derivatives bill in committee, Shelby predicting a significant number of Republican votes for the Dodd bill. After their health care debacle, not enough of their members are going to be willing to walk off the cliff opposing something that has even stronger public support.

And as long as their oppoenent refuses to use the label "liar", they will complete impunity.

I hate to say this, but I'm concerned that there may be truth in the claim that future bailouts are indeed enshrined in the legislation. From a post on Counterpunch today by the respectable Andrew Cockburn:

----Begin Quote------

More recently, there are reports that the bill will be stripped of a provision requiring a levy on the “too big to fail” banks as an insurance fund in the event of possible future defaults. However, anyone who believes official trumpetings about ending mega-bank bailouts should take a look at the paragraph on page 1379:

“During times of severe economic distress,” it reads, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation “shall create a widely available program to guarantee obligations of solvent insured depository institutions or solvent depository institution holding companies (including any affiliates thereof)...”

In plain English, this means that the next time they bring the system to ruin, the banks and bank holding companies will get bailed out by the taxpayers, just like this time.

----End Quote------

Then why doesn't Pence want to end the "bailouts of farmers?"

BFD ! There wasn't any price paid by those who created and promoted the lies that led to the invasion of Iraq. The only people who paid a price for that set of lies were those who happened to get in the way of bombs, rockets, bullets, rpgs, shrapnel an other such stuff.

Who cares besides most of us who read blogs?

Samuel is absolutely right. It is a year past the time to drop Senatorial propriety. Propriety is meaningless in a situation where your opponent has no shame, self respect or principles. There is no dignity to the office of a Senator who brazenly lies to achieve political goals. There is no good that comes from pursuing comity with people who are immoral opportunists. Call a spade a spade. I want to hear every Senator in the chamber reiterate that the Republicans are liars. And don't be afraid to use the word "Bullshit!"

Nice language and politeness makes the Democrats look like weannies. But I guess they really are weannies, aren't they?

Please, please, please watch and share Capitalism, A Love Story. This has to go viral. What we are seeing is not a joke and the more people who know what's happening and who let their "representatives" know that they know, the sooner this nonsense will cease.

Please see the DVD and share it!

I am committed to Oneness through Justice and Transformation
peace,
st john

Steve, In advertising, we call it "carpet bombing." It's what you do when your media budget is bigger than your idea.

SEE: Bowflex. Cash4Gold. And every As Seen On TV Product Ever.

When a goodly proportion of the population is willing to believe their taxes have been raised when they have been lowered, that their guns are more threatened when restrictions have been loosened, that politicians are seriously proposing death panels and concentration camps . . . when so many are this gullible, why should they fear to lie?

An editor for this blog is needed. Fewer words help capture the truth of the argument. An example:

Original: "Republicans believe they have an incentive to lie with impunity."
Improved: "Republicans have an incentive to lie with impunity."
Best: "Republicans lie with impunity."

Original: "Republicans believe they have an incentive to lie with impunity."
Improved: "Republicans have an incentive to lie with impunity."
Best: "Republicans lie with impunity."

Bestest: "Republicans lie."

As Ed Schultz said last week 90% of media is conservative right wing controlled. This fact is evidenced daily by the dirth of Palin type jounalism. All looks and no substance.The Grownups have to reiterate just as much as the conservative right wing since many Americans take what is said by gb an rl as gospel truth. in today's 24/7 TV good investigative reporting is essential. Yet the cost and fact that right wing will be found to be wrong, illegal or criminal is the reason good journalism hardly exists in MSM.

Thank God for the internet!

Part of the reason the Rebaglicans lie so much is their being supported by the gullibility of those receiving propaganda chain emails. I wrote a blog post for OFA about a reception thanking Rep. Bobby Scott (D-VA 1st), which is linked from OFA-VA Facebook Page (assuming I correctly parse how to make independent links for Facebook pages while in my account.) I'm in a big multi-threaded brawl with Sandy P. who is spreading BS about health care reform using such chain talking points. Even after exposing the source and the fact-checking, she persists in her BS about it. These people are not just epistemically closed, they can't even change when they *do* get the contrary evidence thrown in their faces. They are "closed for [intellectual] business", period!

Which, in a nutshell, is why our political discourse can be so mind-numbing -- Republicans believe they have an incentive to lie with impunity.

You left out the other part of the equation. The Democrats let them lie with impunity and then capitulate to make the lies seem even more "real". And of course, the media loves the "controversy".

How can we have a functioning democracy when a major political party doesn't pay a political price for lying? Especially when EVERYONE knows their lying.

I don't blame politicians for being cynical and treated the public like naifs, but the medias primary purpose in a democracy is to hold politicians accountable and prevent them for acting on their worst impulses.

Republicans believe they have an incentive to lie with impunity.

Because, as you point out, they have good reason to believe it -- their base won't mind, and the so-called "liberal media" probably won't call them on it anyway.

And at the same time, they repeat the lie that the media is liberal at all! (This very morning, NPR reported on the polls showing trust in Congress at an all time low, and both their partisan sources agreed both sides were to blame -- an AEI flack and a Republican congresscritter. No Democratic opinion was cited at all.)

It's what you do when your media budget is bigger than your idea. SEE: Bowflex.

Yeah, well, I've got a Bowflex; had it for ten years, and I gotta tell ya - pretty goddamn good idea. It's helped me to lose 65 pounds and keep them lost.

What they are is a blend of carnival barkers and advertising analysts. They're trying to sell a product, and they're well aware that the best way to do this is by flattering their target audience that they are discerning individuals who choose the product because they are more clever than their fellows. That's why they regularly include modifiers such as "the American people are not deceived here", and the like.

It's like, "You see the trick here, don't you, pard?" Not one in ten will say, "Nope, I'm sorry, I don't. Guess it's just too clever for me".

Nice to see the Republicans taking the advice of the national socialist and comunist great dictators:

LENIN: "A lie told often enough becomes truth" (although I have never really found an genuine source for this quote.)

Hitler in Mein Kampf: "the principle— which is quite true in itself — that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily,"

Heh, re wyhdhdq: Looks like DC is becoming Nuts Own Town! Maybe someday really will be Net(roots) Own Town?

"St John" Wrote: "Please, please, please watch and share 'Capitalism, A Love Story.' This has to go viral."

I agree ... Wonderful movie... except for the use of the Catholic Church ... The scenes are sad at the beginning but after about 15 minutes its excellent....

His base won't mind, and the media probably won't call him on it anyway.

Of course they won't. Because according to David Gregory, Americans can just fact-check things on their own. After all, it isn't his (or the rest of the Beltway media's) job to separate truth from the lies; they're just there to catapult the propaganda! (To paraphrase Colbert, "Type up RNC press release, run spell check, go home.")

In my view, the biggest single cause underlying the collapse of democratic government in the past 30 years is the total degradation in the quality of the media, whose membership has become superficial and intellectually lazy to such an extreme that the political process is no longer comprehensible to interested voters.

As shameless as Republicans have been over the past year with their baseless charges, double standards and hypocrisies, I must admit I was still flabbergasted that McConnell began using the already discredited and debunked Frank Luntz "bailout" lie that was first exposed months ago when Luntz's 18-page memo to GOP leaders was leaked.

As Steve says, the fact that McConnell apparently had no qualms mouthing a known dishonesty was a revealing window into the absolute faith Republicans have in their FOX/Drudge/Rush Noise Machine to utterly obliterate reality. And now the right wing noise machine is whining about the "suspicious timing" of the SEC fraud filing against Goldman Sachs. To tell you the truth, I'm a little suspicious myself since there is no denying it's been a game changer so far on the fate of the President's financial reform.

But so what. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. And maybe it takes something as dramatic as a Wall Street perp walk to shake people up and prevent them falling under the spell of evil word wizards like Frank Luntz and the right wing propaganda machine that takes his cues for creating an alternate universe for millions of gullible Americans.

Of course the Republicans will continue to lie. The Democrats let them get away with it.

I'm with Ted Frier. After 30 days in office, Obama should have gone with the phrase, "the best defense is a good offense."

It's WAY past time the Dems knocked the GOP on their heels and kept them there. If you act boldly, the media has to cover you. Even negative coverage will give you the opportunity to make your case and if you aggressively counter their framing, you can punch through the bullshit wall the MSM has created.

Echoing 5th comment posted by Scott N, why would a Democratic congressman, Brad Sherman, who is a CPA, say this, in an interview with politico on Monday:

"But there are serious problems with the Dodd bill. The Dodd bill has unlimited executive bailout authority. That’s something Wall Street desperately wants but doesn’t dare ask for. The bill contains permanent, unlimited bailout authority."

Well, so much for "Once Critical of Financial Regulation Bill, Republicans Change Their Tone." Gosh, thanks, Washington Post, for that pinpoint accuracy.

Mark Twain once said, "A lie can get halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on". This has become the operational model for the modern Republican Party.

As Paul Simon said: "All lies and jests, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"

There is no truth when nobody is willing to listen. They watch their cable "news" to reinforce their own views - media has come full circle from the days it was used as form of propoganda to free press and finally back to the ultimate "freedom" - propoganda...

...only question now is how does it possibly correct course?

Old stalking horse, but they are effective to a great extent because we are not.

Our messaging problem runs all the way from the grassroots, through our opinion makers up to the elected officials.

One part of the problem is that after LBJ, since Nixon, through Reagan, Bush I and midterm 1994 democrats and progressive grassroots have internalized being the opposition party. From reading through various progressive blogs the only message that is coherent & and repeated is that republicans are unintelligent and silly, maybe crazy.

All of that may be true, but it's a piss poor sales pitch to get people to vote democrat and support progressive legislation.

A better sales pitch would be that republicans policies are BAD for YOU the reader / voter (explain how); that republicans policies are EVEN DANGEROUS for YOU the reader / voter (explain how); that this or that in democratic proposals are good for YOU, and when comparing its FAR BETTER than the republicans proposal.

Reading Kevin Drum f.e., a great knowledgeable guy and good writer, he spends most of his time these days waxing cynic on the Wall Street bill, bitching about how it does not go nearly far enough yada, yada. The implication and focus being on how this country is in the back pocket of Big Business and how democrats are only republicans light - slightly preferable and genuinely unlovable.

But hey! Look at the last 30 years. When was a better, more strict, more progressive bill passed that regulated Wall Street more strictly? Even without knowing exactly what ends up in the bill we can safely say: none.

The reality is in fact that all major legislation for a generation has removed regulations and given Big Banking evermore powers.

So we should be fucking ecstatic with anything that moves everso slightly in the right direction. ESPECIALLY given the fact that those wrongheaded reaganite policies that have reigned supreme very nearly took the world economy down the drain a year ago.

I'm not bashing on Kev because he is untypical in any way, he is very much mainstream and symptomatic of why progressives loose the messaging battle.

If we want progressive ideas to shape our country it's in our interest to in every little way contribute to forward those ideas with maximum efficiency and require of our leaders that they do the same. Instead all to often we indulge in hipster snickering and joking about the stupid & crazy repubs & bitching at every imperfection in any actual thing democrats do.

Much as I would love to see ANY elected Democratic leader call a Republican who lies a liar, I know only too well what will follow: "X calls Y liar!"
And that's as far as it will go. Wel, maybe there will be something about how it might affect an election, but there will be NO mention of the truth or falsity of "X"'s charge...
I want Walter!

@danny
Yes, that is the case. I often wonder if many of the progressives who encourage and repeat and repeat the "We're just too smart for other people to understand us. And just look at how the Democrats have disappointed you now" aren't actually just on the Republican payroll. They might as well be. Progressives tend to repeat loser stories until they believe them, such that every small victory is just another disappointment. I've often thought that if, say, Obama signed a bill that gave progressives everything that they claim that they wanted, their disappointment would increase to the point that they would call for his immediate impeachment. Sometimes progressive opinion leaders repeat lies to their own base as well to keep them upset, flattered, frightened and marginalized. More progressives need to push back against that tendency.