>>I could have sworn far-right Republicans were against involuntary microchip implanation>>

They're against it for white people

It's sort of like the fortune cookie game where you append "... in bed," to the fortune. The Republican version is "Republicans are against x... for white people."

"King could have been more direct and just called Grijalva a traitor"

Or a spic, which is what he was really thinking.

Didn't Republicans in some in-bred southern state just go all hysterical over the evil specter of microchipping?

The only response to such foolish rhetoric is not printable in public! The anti-democratic spewings of King are really quite offensive, and it is quite unfortunate such a poor excuse of a human being is "serving" in our national legislature.

King seems to believe he will not be but dust in the wind at the end of his presence on earth, just like every other human being that has come and gone. He must be gathering himself as the true disciple, but he is blind to his flaws that will land him in hell in his afterlife, if he truly does believe.

For the grace of the world Mr. King, we are all God's children, only now some of us must produce the papers to prove so! -Kevo

King is a bigot. Still, I'm surprised to see Rep. Grijalva advocating a boycott of his own state - it will hurt his constituents. There must be better ways to fight this law.

>>I could have sworn far-right Republicans were against involuntary microchip implanation>>

They're against it for white people

It's worse than that. They're against it for humans. They just don't see Mexicans as human, or the idea "I can do it to my dog, why not to an illegal?" would never even occur to them.

"I think we should catch 'em, we should document 'em, make sure we know where they are and where they are going...I actually support microchipping them.

And when they still keep coming, due in large part to businesses illegally hiring them under the table for sweatshop labor, what will this knuckledragger Bertroche "support" next: gulags and ovens?

Well, the chipping hysteria is only true of one types of wing nut, the religious type that believes in a particular interpretation of the Book of Revelations, where the " mark of the beast" will be put on everyone during the end times. That phrase has had different interpretations over the years, depending on who is freaking out.

Fears about being "chipped" are not universal, it's a sign of a schism in the lunatics on the right wing. That is, who do you fear more, Mexicans or the Anti-Christ?

Wasn't it Bush who said something like, 'we'll hunt them down like dogs, find them in their holes...etc." seems like the Rethugs feel the same way about Hispanics as Bush did about Osama and co. Oh, I forgot, the Rethugs can't tell the difference since neither are white.

The shameless, unabashed racism from the right-wing is beyond reckoning in this deeply Christian country.

I'd be willing to bet that if there was a time machine and it carried one back to Germany as the Nazis were in their infancy and beginning their hate rhetoric against all who were not "prue" Arian one would find such comments coming from politicians hell bent on erasing humans who did not fit their prescribed position of who should be a German citizen.

If one puts together the hateful rhetoric of the GOP lunatic fringe, the hate being spewed because we have a black prsident, the greed and corruption being seen on Wall street, Congress, and the international war being raged by alQaeda against the Crusaders, the collapse of the Catholic mith of "God on earth priests" , hypocritical gangs of Tea Partiers, the total collapse of the search for truth once the main responsability of the MSM, one might make the argument that the actual anti-christ is already here and running amuck.

Scary eh?...

I could have sworn far-right Republicans were against involuntary microchip implantation. -- Steve Benen

Not for dogs and minorities, obviously.

I also wonder just how far Bertroche would be willing to go with his "dogs and minorities" comparison. He can "fix" his dog; does he propose that minorities ought to be "fixed" also, so that they don't multiply? He owns his dog; does he advocate for ownership of Mexicans? This sounds like one sick puppy to me and should, probably, be put down (humanely).

Vis Grijalva. I wish he hadn't called for the boycott. Leave it to people from *outside* of Arizona to say "we're gonna give your state a wide berth till you repent your evil ways". For him, it would have been enough to have issued a condemnatory statement. Shitting into his own nest is not necessary.

“I actually support micro-chipping them. I can micro-chip my dog so I can find it. Why can’t I micro-chip an illegal?"

So, how’s that voter outreach thingy workin' out for ya?

Bush/Cheney proved that they are only against shit when it isn't them doing it.

"I actually support microchipping them. I can micro-chip my dog so I can find it. Why can't I microchip an illegal?"

With apologies to Iron Maiden

Left alone, my mind was blank
I needed time to think, to get the memories from my mind
What did I see, can I believe
That what Arizona did was real and not just fantasy

Just what I saw in my old dreams
Were the reflections of Az Gov Jan Brewer staring back at me
'cause in my dreams, it's always there
The evil face that twists my mind and brings me to despair

Six six six, the number of the beast
The full force of Arizona Law is about to be released

Speeches blazed and border fences were praised
And as they start to vote, this bill will be thair moat
And in the night, the electric torches burning bright
The hunt for illegals has begun, Jan Brewer's work is done

Six six six, the number of the beast
Microchipping is going on tonight

November by all accounts should be pretty good for the Republicans, but aren't they crapping in their own bed? I mean they're going out of their way to mobilize hispanic voters, black voters, gays, women....They needed a low voter turnout in the fall to succeed with their handful of old white bigots, but they're lighting a fire under a lot of people to come out and vote against them.

I wrote this in a thread downstream, but it is as applicable here as it was there:

Because it's not about ideas, it's about Democrats and Obama (actually, the scary trilogy of Obama, Pelosi and Reid, Oh My!)

The teabaggers are part of the brainwashed masses who have been influenced by Rush, Beck, et al, and believe that everything DemocRAT is wrong and bad and evil.

That is brainwashing, plain and simple. And it would happen to any Dem. Just pay attention to the last 30 years, from Jimmy Carter to Bill Clinton to Obama. It's just worse now because you have the whole racial thing thrown into the mix.

No, not all of them are racist. But all of them are brainwashed.

All ideas which R's came up with before and are adopted by D's become evil.

Anything that the R's say is sacrosanct, anything the D's say is evil, no matter how innocuous or innocent it may be.

Microchipping is ok when R's propose it, but evil when D's want it (even though they don't and have never said anything even remotely like this).

Sorry, there's no other way to say this. Anyone who is or considers themselves a Republican is fucking crazy. Full freaking stop.

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Is it just my failing eyes, or did "...a Republican congressional hopeful in Iowa's 3rd district..." just compare undocumented immigrants to dogs? As a descendant of undocumented Irish immigrants, I believe I can speak for my entire family when I say "Fuck you, Pat Bertroche."

But! if I compare rich WASP bankers to parasitical fungi, I'm fomenting hatred for political purposes.
I'm loving the high expectations on the Repub side for November. Pride goeth before the fall.

America's anus revisted...

There must be better ways to fight this law.

I am sure the White House will do what they can. But keep in mind that Arizona actually lost a Super Bowl before the right wing legislature partially caved and allowed voters a referendum to opt in on the Martin Luther King holiday.

Phoenix is the angry white anus of America. The only way they will even partially cave again is if Major League Baseball talks about moving all spring training to Florida. And even then, America's old white anus probably won't blink and poop. Best you learn right now with the sort of monsters you are dealing with here.

What's wanted right now is a list of all major businesses in Phoenix.
And... a list of all its upcoming conventions.

I think we should catch 'em, we should document 'em, make sure we know where they are and where they are going...I actually support microchipping them.

It'd be much cheaper to just tattoo numbers on their forearms.

pity poor Pat Bertroche, who in a 7-way primary (against at least one actual Tea Party organizer) in which he is running no better than 6th finds he must say increasingly crazy things just to get noticed. best to just shake your head, look away, and not speak to him. he'll crawl back in his hole soon enough -- the primary is about a month away.

in the meantime, Iowa being 5% non-white, there will be little price to pay for his comments, since Blue Dog Boswell will mop up the city of Des Moines in November no matter the opponent.

The real battle is the western suburbs, and the rural "Reagan Democrats".

he's trying to... press the legislature to reverse the law that was just signed by the governor the other day.

Uh, last I heard, one of the hallmarks of a democracy was that citizens - even citizens elected to Congress - had the right to do just that.

Or is it only permissible when large banks press legislatures?

Wait, I know how to fix this. All we need to do is have hispanic people who are legal citizens or immigrants wear a badge on their clothing that identifies them to everyone, the police, government officials everyone, so we all know who they are. And we can solve the 'papers' problem by coming up with something that always travels with them, like, I don't know, maybe a tattoo number on their arm that they could show on request. What could go wrong with that?

""I think we should catch 'em, we should document 'em, make sure we know where they are and where they are going...I actually support microchipping them. I can micro-chip my dog so I can find it. Why can't I microchip an illegal?"

You, know we're very close to one of these idiots actually recommending camps.

And just yesterday I was saying sarcastically that next they'd want to implant microchips! These goons are beyond parody, let alone irony.

The hypocritical and schizoid positions of some right wingers over microchip implantations needs to be viewed in theological terms - because it isn't about policy or logic. It is about religion, and specifically about the belief (shared by Sarah Palin, among others) that we are facing the End Times - and that Armageddon is just around the corner.

I'll probably oversimplify and get some of the nuances of this wrong, but bear with me.

Specifically, if fundamentalist Protestant Christians are implanted with microchips, this is terrible, because they are being marked with a sign of the Beast. Literally, it is the Devil's work, and that this part of the groundwork for the persecution of believers during the forthcoming End Times (according to their interpretations of the Book of Revelations).

However, if microchips are implanted in people that are outside this community of faith, like illegal Mexican immigrants? Well, that's no big problem. Those people literally don't count, because they aren't important in the forthcoming conflict. At best, those people are just cannon fodder. At worst they already are part of the Devil's side. So screw 'em.

This is hysteria and reaction, and it literally cannot and will not conform to logic, since it is all about religious identity and faith. And, of course, ... no, you can't make a coherent or nondiscriminatory policy out of this, where it is supposed to be OK for some people to be battered and brutalized by the state and other people are treated differently (based on being on the correct side of God). All you can do is wield the government as a blunt instrument, controlled by the good and correct people against the bad and evil people. All divided and determined on faith.

This also explains a lot of the hysteria about the federal government being in the hands of the Democrats - who aren't willing recognize these distinctions, and may be part of the Devil's plan. So the federal government is bad, and needs to be resisted, until it changes control and comes back into the hands of the correct people.

The simple psycchology of the Repiublican nasty speak is that what they want to send fear is message what the Republicans really want. ie deathers. Republicans would love to ration health care and kill older people who take more money in health dollars;Republicans put the ammendment in the M'care Part D with discussionof death options in mind;birthers. Republicans elite want only 13 colonywhite people to be citizens. No one else need apply; microchips/ The Republicans want all but the elite whites especially men to have micro chips for orwellian , draconian means. I am tired of a party that continues to act with such out and out outrageousness to prevent America from moving foward.

Phoenix has become America's brown anus because of hordes of illegal immigrants.

With no money and truly no schooling, (average 8th grade education), they are a blight on the state. Come to think of it, with that level of education they would fit in quite nicely with many of the poster here.

The people of AZ demanded and overwhelmingly support 1070.

Deport them all. NOW.

Sinse this idiot's comparing them to dogs, why not just push neutering and spading?

Nebraska isn't any better. If you are pregnant and undocumented, you're SOL because the state will deny you prenatal care.

This from the same people who pass a law banning late-term abortions, because supposedly the fetus can "feel pain".

Barney Frank once said that a conservative "believes life begins at conception, and ends at birth." In Nebraska, life only begins at conception if it's between the right people.

How Phoenix became America's ugly white anus

Jon Talton explains what happens to the State he was born in:

They came from far away by the millions, bringing strange, sometimes offensive customs and values. They show no interest in Arizona's history or traditions, preferring to keep to themselves. Through their numbers and the way the state uses them for economic gain, they profaned the peerless beauty of the Sonoran Desert and destroyed the magic of the Salt River Valley. They caused billions in public costs that will linger for decades. While many are said to be hard-working, most are in the state for its government-subsidized goodies, and their numbers have included no small share of criminals, even kingpins seeking to extend their dangerous empires across the border. And it's the smaller things, too. As wealthy Republican John Sidney McCain III would have it, they deliberately cause accidents on the freeways and otherwise drive like maniacs. I'm no bigot — some individuals are even personal friends — but I even find their accents grating, their clothing bizarre, the ever-growing accommodations we must make for them unfair.

I'm writing, of course, about the other great migration that destabilized my home state: That of the Midwesterners and Californians.

I found this bit particularly cogent:

The new law won't work. As I've written, it will take strapped law enforcement away from real crime-fighting and eliminate essential trust between the police and the immigrant community, which is the biggest target of crime. Employers, who get a free ride, will gain even more leverage to abuse these poor souls. And they aren't going anywhere, because if they did the state economy would collapse. The law may well be struck down. Meanwhile, real reform won't happen. This would especially focus on improving education and economic and social mobility for the children of these low-skilled, first generation immigrants who are here. It would also involve creating a high-quality state economy that pays decent wages, as well as reforming Mexico's economy and society to serve its citizens. As for the federal immigration reform that wealthy Republican John Sidney McCain III once favored — forget about it. The "brown peril" is now too politically profitable for the right.

Deport them all?
What a laugh...
Pity poor whitey: He is as ugly as he is old as he is stupid.

Perhaps the crowning irony is that Arizona plans to demand that the federal government provide them with them money to implement this ID verification law.

Because ... hey, they want to use someone else's tax dollars to hire all the policemen and agents that will be necessary. Raise taxes to fund their own law? Screw that! They are fiscal conservatives!!

-Bokonon

How is tunneling under an enormous fence easier than digging a microchip out of your arm with a box cutter?

Of course, the simpler thing to do would be to microchip every legal American citizen. Right?

And wait, which party is against big government again?

I hear a lot of criticism from Dems on this bill. But I don’t hear from Dems is any suggestions about what to do about AZ’s very real problem with illegal immigrants.

Isn't that what you accuse Republicans of???

Hey J -

First off, don't be intellectually lazy and chalk up opposition to this law as being a bunch of "Dems" making partisan complaints. That is the standard talk radio framing, in which everything is political and the story is always about the motives, hypocrisy or corruption of the critic - essentially, acting as apologists for the original bad act.

This law presents very serious problems under the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution - the one that says that "the right of hte people to be secure intheir persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..."

The Arizona law gleefully and deliberately tromps all over that "reasonableness" standard. That's the whole point. It not only gives the police free reign to question people and demand that they document their citizenship anywhere at any time, without any particularized suspicion that they are illegal immigrants, but it OBLIGATES the police to do so - on extremely vague and open-ended standards that are plainly designed and intended to permit racial profiling to occur (and make it legal - because anything the police do is essentially deemed reasonable because they did it. Cute, eh?)

And second ... it is not incumbent on the "Dems" or anyone else to offer alternative solutions as part of their comments on this board.

This was not the only policy or policing solution to illegal immigration. There are LOTS of things that the Arizona legislature could have done (or that Congress could have done, frankly) that complied with Constitutional standards and that didn't put an entire enthnic group in the bull's eye for police interrogation on a 24x7 basis. For example, the Bush Administration proposed a comprehensive overhaul of the nation's immigration laws - and it was trampled into dust by some of the very same people who are now pushing solutions like this Arizona law.

What about Summary Executions of illegals?

That idea would probably be equally popular with the far right! Instead of deporting or implanting illegals with electronic chips, why not just take them out back of the police station and shoot them?

Just like in the good old days in Stalin's Russia!

His stupidity is compounded about 100 fold because the "problem" is catching them.

Even with the microchip, it is not a tracking device like a home confinement ankle thing or even a cell phone.

If a person with a microchip is caught all that tells anyone is that they had previously been caught and had a microchip implanted.

Since we deport illegals now, what would the expense and forced medical procedure accomplish other than satisfying the ghoulish tastes of this idiot.

How would this be all that different than tattooing numbers on Jewish prisoners in Germany? Or branding slaves?

How would this be all that different than tattooing numbers on Jewish prisoners in Germany? Or branding slaves?

Posted by: Marnie on April 28, 2010 at 4:46 PM

It isn't. I'd bet even money that's why Bertroche proposed it, as a dog whistle to the base.

I hear a lot of criticism from Dems on this bill. But I don’t hear from Dems is any suggestions about what to do about AZ’s very real problem with illegal immigrants.

Stop making so many illegal immigrants.

Two easy steps:
1) Instead of a set limit on how much of the total US immigration quota in each category can come from any one country, align distribution of immigrant visas within the quota with the demand from legally-acceptable immigrants. Then you won't have decade+ waiting lists in many legal immigration categories from a handful of high-immigration countries (Mexico, mainly, but also, IIRC, India and some others in certain categories.) Suddenly, there is a lot less reason for people to immigrate illegaly.

2) Allow additional legal immigration beyond the quotas by qualified immigrants by paying a substantial fee (which could be paid, e.g., by employers, family members already in the US, etc.); since the quotas exist to mitigate the costs due to the volume of immigration, this is an alternative method of mitigating the cost. Some of the money from the fees would be retained by the federal government, the rest would be distributed among the states in proportion to the total number of resident legal immigrants (whether under quotas or fee-paying.)

Now, you've done even more to reduce the incentive to immigrate illegaly, and given States a new source of revenue to deal with the costs associated with immigration.

To: Bokonon

Then it will get overturned by the courts, won't it? My point is I hear a lot of Dems doing what they accuse Repubs of doing.

What I DON'T hear is anyone offering solutions to AZ's problems, some of which were caused by the federal govt, who made strong efforts in TX and CA which only shunted ilegals into AZ and NM.