so when is obama get to get his shit together on the gulf? i'm the most liberal democrat there is and i'm getting disgusted.

I've heard different things about whether the Admin and various agencies will bring serious criminal charges against BP (and we hope, Halliburton etc. as well.) The Truthout piece below thinks they dropped the ball:
http://www.truthout.org/ex-epa-officials-why-isnt-bp-under-criminal-investigation59936
Obama's critics on the Right will hate him anyway, he might as well serve his base and the environment.

As for Tony Hayward: he just let slip the essential Randian self absorption of his class. The only thing that motivates them is fear: genuine toughness and follow through.

2. The report at www dot ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00 dot html - about IDF forces defending themselves with paintball guns (at first) against savage activists on the boat - sounds like an Onion piece. Are they serious? Anything to that at all? And where's a good list of the "notables" on the flotillas?

Fred, you're a fucking idiot.

"World Science Festival" huh?

I'd expect the anti-Copernicus tea party pickets any minute now.

Oh wait. No fncking way any of them god-fearin' souls set foot on the ultimate evil hell island of Manhattan.

They can go to the dinosaur rides at the Kentucky state fair or someplace instead while they curse the heathens.

I'm actually surprised Tony Hayward hasn't been fired yet. He epitomizes every stereotype environmentalists have of people in the oil industry. BP has some of the slickest marketing out there. But it is undermined every time Tony opens his mouth. But thanks, Tony, your insensitivity is making our job easier.

With emotions running high right now I believe writing that "the Israeli military targeted an aid flotilla" is extremely prejudicial. Here is what I think a proper post on the subject should read at this point:

As of this afternoon, there were nine confirmed fatalities and dozens of injuries in violence that erupted off the coast of Gaza when Israeli naval forces boarded the lead ship in a flotilla attempting to run the Israeli imposed maritime blockade of the Gaza strip.

Well per 2: At http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/31/AR2010053101209.html
we do find this quote:
Overnight, Israeli naval personnel dropped from helicopters onto the largest passenger ship from Turkey, which had mostly Turkish nationals aboard. Short video clips broadcast on television stations showed demonstrators clubbing the navy personnel with metal bars and showed at least one Israeli commando firing.
So first Israel made the mistake of this sort of boarding party, as a matter of principle.

Hey Fred ; We are all waiting for your suggestion of how to deal with a leak a mile below the surface where no man can go. Do you have some superpowers you can loan Obama? I suggest you go here:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/05/critical_perspective.php#more
for a point of view from someone who is actually involved in the attempts to stop the leak.
The only people with the equipment and expertise to deal with this ARE the oil companies. This is a result of Cheney huddling with Ken Lay to develop our oil industry regulations. Every other civilized country mandates that the offshore wells must concurrently drill relief wells. Here not so much - who needs em?

Poor BP CEO wants his life back. You know, the one where he makes millions off the backs of the people losing thier livelyhood in the gulf. Really. He'll get his bonus anyway so what is the big deal? He won't be one of the people needing government assistance to put bread on the table to live, but he'll probably get some of that, too, with the best part being that no one (as in our famous "teabaggers") will complain our tax dollars are going into his pockets.

fred, you're a troll ...

that didn't take long.thank you patrick star.

“As of this afternoon, there were nine confirmed fatalities and dozens of injuries in the violence off the coast of Gaza, where the Israeli military targeted an aid flotilla.”

Just saw video of an Israeli soldier claiming “self-defense” because when he repelled down onto a ship in international waters he was attacked by people with clubs.

It’s become S.O.P. for the Israeli RightWing to claim an act of aggression is merely self-defense.

Speaking of idiots, check out that Yahoo story on Obama in Chicago. Four fifths of the comments are outrage that Obama is the firstest ever president who didn't go to Arlington!!!1!!! and the rest are ones seeing the rain as a sign from God.

Has the US condemned the Israeli piracy yet? Are we going to be the only country that doesn't?

I don't suppose anyone here wants to give the Israelis the benefit of the doubt. After all, Im sure these blockade runners had nothing nut the most peaceful intentions.

sure, call me an idiot, but it's all about perception. I'm not a troll, I deeply support the President. However, the perception out there is that no one but BP is in control and obviously they don't have a clue.

Agreed that there is no easy answer, we've never been in this situation before. Yes, our friends Bush and Cheney got us here, but the problem is they are no longer in charge, Obama is and at this point he appears detached. I don't have the answers and nor do I pretend to, but someone needs to step up to the plate and act if they do.

This whole thing quite frankly scares the hell out of me.

J,

“I don't suppose anyone here wants to give the Israelis the benefit of the doubt. After all, Im sure these blockade runners had nothing nut the most peaceful intentions.”

Israel cannot legally blockade the coast of Gaza, as it is not their coastline. Israel merely illegally occupies Gaza, which is a violation of the 1949 Geneva Convention on the treatment of occupied populations.

BTW, Turkey has officially labeled the act of aggression against a ship in international waters as “state sponsored terrorism.”.

* BP CEO Tony Hayward went ridiculously off message, saying he'd like to resolve the crisis because it's the only way he'll get his life back.

I got an idea for Tony's new life,,,
How about all the Gulf Fish & Chips he can eat as he whiles his final days away on death row in Texas.

It's "lightning."

@ Patrick Star on May 31, 2010 at 5:49 PM who said: "Fred, you're a fucking idiot.

Pat! It's bad enough you are rude - many of us are but,,, It's worse that you fail to document your bizarre claim.

John R: sure the Admin can't take better physical control AFAWK, but like I said, maybe they should be tougher legally. Even with left over moles and bad "regulations" Obama still directs the Justice Dept. rather closely.

Blockade: yes, it's not their coastline but neither was Cuba, Iraq pre-Gulf II, etc. (as far as "principle" goes.) But there needs to be something better and this whole situation is indeed not "kosher" so to speak. Maybe Israel could agree for the US to escort the ships on condition of inspecting and ensuring the "right" contents (which most of it is.)

I don't suppose anyone here wants to give the Israelis the benefit of the doubt. After all, Im sure these blockade runners had nothing nut the most peaceful intentions.
Posted by: J on May 31, 2010 at 8:15 PM

In addition to what Joe Friday said at 8:38PM (Israel's blockade was illegal to begin with)... Women, children, old men and a Nobel Peace winner were among the passengers/activists -- frightful terrorists, to be sure. Then too, the whole aid project was being run under the auspices of Turkey -- one of the very few (if not only) Muslim allies of Israel. And now Israel has lost that ally, through being an obnoxious, vicious, bully. How smart was that?

Benefit of the doubt? What benefit of the doubt? They have used the same "preemptive self-defense" BS that our own Double-u, doubly-dumb Bu..$h.. used when invading I-wreck.

Of course. The Iraelis are evil. We should nuke them and set the Palestinians free.

J, I haven't given the Israelis the benefit of the doubt since they sank the Liberty. They are a terrorist state, unwilling to do the right and moral thing by their neighbors. If they didn't have control of the American media and a whole bunch of congress critters of both parties, they would be working for peace and we might have a sane foreign policy.

No J we shouldn't nuke them. We should simply tell them to start negotiating. We don't need any more war. Neither do they regardless of what their expansionist religious wackos claim.

And the Palestinians...? They're totally innocent of course. THEY'RE not terrorists, are they? Because if they were, that would put you in a moral dilemma, wouldn't it? You'd actaully have to think about who's at fault in a complex and decades-old situation, instead of just knee-jerk blaming the Israelis.

But knee-jerk blaming is what the left and right both like to do. You're no different from them.

No different at ALL.

J,

“And the Palestinians...? They're totally innocent of course. THEY'RE not terrorists, are they?”

As a matter of fact, they’re not.

Just as the French were not terrorists when they fought back against the Germans who had their country under illegal military occupation.

As I posted in the other thread, the Geneva Declaration on Terrorism states:

"As repeatedly recognized by the United Nations General Assembly, peoples who are fighting against colonial domination and alien occupation and against racist regimes in the exercise of their right of self-determination have the right to use force to accomplish their objectives within the framework of international humanitarian law. Such lawful uses of force must not be confused with acts of international terrorism."

Wouldn't want to risk "lightening" an American crowd. Their Haggar relaxed fit slacks might drop presumptuously to their ankles. And that can start a whole new outrage at government.

Too bad the Israeli commandos weren't storming BP headquarters. I could support an Israeli foreign policy that did something like that to folks like that. But until they do....

Hayward wants his life back? We'd like our Gulf back as well, please. Looks like we're all going to be waiting for a long while.

Nationalize Deepwater Horizon.

Any proceeds from Deepwater Horizon, whether spilled oil captured or oil extracted from the reservoir DH is tapping, should primarily go to Gulf Coast residents, workers and business owners, who are getting hammered by this man-made disaster, and no other oil company can tap into this 22,000-foot-deep oil reservoir, trying to do an end-run.

Affected states and the federal government can receive a percentage of the DH oil proceeds, but only to cover state and federal expenses in dealing with this catastrophe, like wetlands restoration, etc.

BP has already pocketed $275 million in insurance coverage. They should not be allowed to profit anymore from a disaster that they caused. Not a single red, blood-soaked, oil-soaked dime.

The model for this can be based on what Alaskans have in place already, with a few modifications, that is, the nationalization of a single oil well. Alaskans receive oil royalty checks each year from the Alaskan government, in which they, the citizens, benefit from all the oil activity in Alaska. We need a similar set-up for Gulf Coast residents and states affected by BP's Deepwater Horizon disaster, with no questions asked, no bureaucratic roadblocks put in place, all one has to do is prove that one is a resident, worker or business owner in any of the affected states.

Any resident along the coast of any Gulf Coast state (or any other) affected by this BP DH disaster, who can prove that they were a resident on April 20th, is eligible.

And control of (and the profits from) Deepwater Horizon will only revert back to BP once the clean-up is complete, the wetlands are restored to pre-April 20th conditions, the wildlife have recovered and Gulf Coast fishermen, shrimpers, whoever, can make for themselves what they were making before April 20th...but only then...no matter how long it takes.

Maybe nationalizing Deepwater Horizon will knock the smile off of the faces of BP executives.

Of course. The Iraelis are evil. We should nuke them and set the Palestinians free.
Posted by: J on May 31, 2010 at 9:27 PM

Exaggerate much?

Maybe nationalizing Deepwater Horizon will knock the smile off of the faces of BP executives.

Probably not, since (1) it's sitting wrecked and burned out a mile down on the ocean floor; and (2) the Deepwater Horizon doesn't belong to BP anyway. BP was leasing it from Transocean.

There weren't and will never be any profits from the Deepwater Horizon.

Germany's president, a largely ceremonial post, was forced to resign after making controversial remarks about using the military to protect the country's economic interests.

Geee, I wish somebody had said something like that about Prez Monroe's or Prez Teddy Roosevelt's approach to foreign policy.

"As expected, the diplomatic crisis for Israel is fairly intense: "Several European nations and Turkey summoned Israeli envoys for an explanation of the actions. At the request of Turkey, The United Nations Security Council met in emergency session on Monday over the attack, which occurred in international waters north of Gaza and killed at least nine people."

This is intense? People who already don't like Israel now like Israel even less, and people who were already saying stern things about Israel will say some slightly more stern things about Israel. So?

Will there be any consequences? Will anything bad whatsoever happen to either Israel-as-a-state or Netanyahu's government as a result of what happened here? It almost seems like the Israeli regime is more likely to face repercussions because this galvanizes the Israeli left internally than because of anything whatsoever the international community does.

> Germany's president, a largely ceremonial post, was forced to resign after making controversial remarks about using the military to protect the country's economic interests.

He wasn't forced to do anything, he was just being a crybaby after some criticism for his comments.

Any product deepwater Horizon, if captured or extracted from oil spilled oil tank is using DH should go largely to residents of the Gulf Coast, employees and business owners who are hit by this human disaster, and No other oil company can exploit this oil field 22,000 feet deep to try to short circuit.

ipad car charger

Actually, you don't know what you're talking about. He has been dissatisfied with the position for quite a while, and the lack of any support whatsoever from his own party was the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't blame him.

How does one check a news source's reliability? When you know what really happened and are able to compare what the news source says. Sorry- you flunked that test with the small note on the resignation of the German president: He was -not- forced to resign, and nothing in the WP report suggests this. For about a year I have been following this site with great interest, but I will be a little more cautious now.

>Actually, you don't know what you're talking about.

Both Merkel and Westerwelle asked him to reconsider his decision before he announced it, so "forced to resign" is hardly the appropriate term here. I don't see how this is any better than Palin quitting. And considering that he said he wanted to be an "unconvenient" president, his reasons for quitting seem even more laughable.

The German president was not at all forced to resign, and that's not what the article you are linking to is saying. On the contrary, even his critics were taken by surprise when he resigned. He always wanted to be a president who dares to say things which people do not necessarily want to hear - which is a real balancing act for somebody in a ceremonial, consensual position. When people started to criticise one of his comments, he whined "you are damaging the position of the head of state, which is supposed to be consensual", and resigned. Very weird.

A meaningful question for sure is HOW does one know that any media reporting is accurate and unbiased? Brian did a wonderful job of rewriting the lead/headline that might actually provide information and cause someone to try to ferret out further FACTS about an issue. The difficulty would then become where does one go and how does one determine which outlet is responsible and interested in doing the job they should be about doing? GOOD LUCK WITH THAT...

Hey, Joe Friday. Just the facts: I realize little things like legal documents only have value to you when they are anti-Israeli, but Hizbollah and Hamas specifically call for the eradication of Israel in their charters. Nothing terroristic about that, is there?

If you want to be simplistic and reactionary, you can go ahead and blame the Israelis for everything. This 'freedom flotilla' was to provoke the Israelis into just such a reaction. They were told they could put ashore elsewehere & the Israelis guaranteed the supplies - all of them - would be delivered to Gaza. But that wasn't enough. This group wanted confrontation. And they got it. THEY attacked the sailors as soon as they landed on the ship, THEY beat them with metal rods, THEY threw the IEDs at them.

Maybe you should watch the video instead of spouting. The Israelis aren't wrong EVERY time.

This 'freedom flotilla' was to provoke the Israelis into just such a reaction. J

And like a bunch of morons the clowns in the Iraeli government bit on the provocation. Not only are the brutal they are stupid. A bad combination.

How come we never see younger Israeli leaders, just musical chairs involving the same old fools.

By the way the defense that stupid Israelis actions are justified because they fighting for their very existence was pretty good the first 30 years but the last 30, after they have developed nukes, not so much. Nobody really wants to risk being nuked by the Israelis so all the eratication talk is intended for the weak minded. J there is an ugly truth in the Middle East. The leadership in both Israel and Palestine depend on continued violence to maintain their internal power. The old men running Likud, Hammas, and Hizbollah all realize that if peace breaks out they are going to lose power to younger leaders.

J,

“I realize little things like legal documents only have value to you when they are anti-Israeli, but Hizbollah and Hamas specifically call for the eradication of Israel in their charters.”

Let’s see that.

Not to mention, I imagine the French called for the eradication of Nazi Germany to end their illegal military occupation as well. Nazi Germany was eradicated.

“This 'freedom flotilla' was to provoke the Israelis into just such a reaction.”

Israel has no legal claim to the coast of Gaza. They cannot block international access to Gaza.

“THEY attacked the sailors as soon as they landed on the ship, THEY beat them with metal rods”

GOOD !

That’s what happens when you illegally board a ship in international waters. It’s called defending yourself and your ship from illegal attackers.

It almost seems like the Israeli regime is more likely to face repercussions because this galvanizes the Israeli left internally than because of anything whatsoever the international community does.

I've read elsewhere that this is in fact one of the goals of the flotilla action. Which makes sense.
Although a change in international opinion, especially by Israeli allies, can make a difference. They don't want to be completely isolated.

flotillas and public opinion--

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20100531_flotillas_and_wars_public_opinion?utm_source=GWeekly&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=100531&utm_content=readmore&elq=ec0dbb5abd264ff39b3645c5d73e93b4

BP's as*hat CEO should be forced to work 8 hours every day on the coast, cleaning it up. I'd suggest cleaning birds but I doubt he's sensitive enough to do that sort of thing.

TR mentions the comments on the Obama story. Wow, what literate detractors the president has. Apparently they can only type comments where the shift key and number row are pressed simutaneously.

Brian: With emotions running high right now I believe writing that "the Israeli military targeted an aid flotilla" is extremely prejudicial.

Not prejudicial at all, imho. Let's say I stopped your bus when you were driving on PUBLIC roads. I come inside pointing a gun. You pull out a stick or maybe even a gun to defend yourself and fellow passengers. I shoot and kill you, and a passenger or two.

"Ohioan targets bus, kills driver and passengers" is absolutely perfect to describe the situation, wouldn't you think?

Also, Brian's comments are prejudicial themselves: notice how the comments throw in "the Israeli imposed maritime blockade of the Gaza strip" as if that's legitimate in any shape or form.

* Phoenix was home over the weekend to some large demonstrations both for and against Arizona's new anti-immigrant law...

...as undocumented Customers fled Assholyzona in droves.

Credit card rules changed mostly for the better for consumers as I understand because now credit card companies have to notify us before they change rates. Also they cant change rates before 60 days.. am I correct? Well, regardless, due to before the laws changed I am still in debt and definitely need debt relief. Debt Free Counselor gives free consultations for any consumers with financial and medical hardship and they have an A rating with the Better Business Bureau.