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Tilting at Windmills

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October 1, 2010

SHE REALLY SHOULD GET OUT MORE.... Did extremist Senate candidate Sharron Angle (R) really say Sharia law has "taken hold" in some U.S. cities? Pretty much.

One of the last questioners asked about "Muslims taking over the U.S.," including a question about Angle's stance on the proposed mosque near Ground Zero in New York.

"We're talking about a militant terrorist situation, which I believe isn't a widespread thing, but it is enough that we need to address, and we have been addressing it," Angle said.

"Dearborn, Michigan, and Frankford, Texas are on American soil, and under Constitutional law. Not Sharia law. And I don't know how that happened in the United States. It seems to me there is something fundamentally wrong with allowing a foreign system of law to even take hold in any municipality or government situation in our United States."

I'm not entirely sure exactly what Angle's even trying to say here. She said she doesn't know "how that happened in the United States." How what happened?

The implication seems to be that a "foreign system of law" has "taken hold" in Dearborn and Frankford, which is completely insane. Those communities, like every other community in the country, follow American law. Does Angle believe cities where there are a lot of Muslim Americans necessarily fall under Sharia?

She's already made clear that she rejects the principle of church-state separation, so perhaps in her twisted worldview, predominantly Muslim cities suddenly become little theocracies unto themselves -- carve-out exceptions to the First Amendment.

I really don't think she's well.

Steve Benen 4:45 PM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (43)

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Comments

Pander pedal to the metal

I really don't think she's well.

Oh she's running fine on all eight hate cylinders...

Posted by: koreyel on October 1, 2010 at 4:48 PM | PERMALINK

As a lifelong Texan, I had to wonder where "Frankford, Texas" was, exactly, since I had never heard of it.
According to the Handbook of Texas Online, Frankford was a small town in Collin County, north of Dallas. It hit its population peak - 83 persons - in 1890. It ceased being shown on county maps in the 1930s, and in 1975 the area was annexed by the City of Dallas.

Pretty neat trick, there, Sharron.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/FF/hvf82.html

Posted by: John Henley on October 1, 2010 at 4:52 PM | PERMALINK

Actually, according to her own quote, she's confused as to how Constitutional law is holding sway:

Dearborn, Michigan, and Frankford, Texas are on American soil, and under Constitutional law. Not Sharia law. And I don't know how that happened in the United States.

I think she doesn't quite understand how a population of believers does not automatically equal a theocracy.

Posted by: Personal Failure on October 1, 2010 at 4:57 PM | PERMALINK

I'm probably giving her far to much credit. But it is true that members of the Muslim community go to local Iman's and Mosques to help meditate civil disputes, decide marrige issues etc. Much the same way heavily Jewish communities sometimes use Rabbinical courts to solve disputes or Catholics have to get their marriage annulled in the church before they can remarry in their faith. Or if one wishes to get more extreme, how a lot of civil matters are handled in Amish communities.

This is all quite common among religious groups. And it in no way infringes on 'freedom of religion' and as long as they rulings handed out by the religious authorities don't tread on civil or criminal law they are perfectly legal.

But in Angle's mind anything not directly from her version of the bible is 'evil' and must be stamped out.

Posted by: thorin-1 on October 1, 2010 at 4:58 PM | PERMALINK

WHERE are the thieves with their hands chopped off? WHERE are the piles of stones for adulators?
WHERE are the heads of miscellaneous miscreants?

SHOW ME SHARON the hands, stones, and heads.

SHOW ME hands and heads.

Posted by: KurtRex1453 on October 1, 2010 at 4:59 PM | PERMALINK

That's EXACTLY what she thinks. She's just freaking stupid.

Posted by: fourlegsgood on October 1, 2010 at 5:03 PM | PERMALINK

Sadly, Steve, I think she's quite well. Very stupid, but quite well.

Posted by: nemisten on October 1, 2010 at 5:05 PM | PERMALINK

Granted that she is crazy--but it would be nice to know what she was referring to. What events is she distorting to arrive at such conclusions?

Posted by: Camus on October 1, 2010 at 5:05 PM | PERMALINK

I'm not entirely sure exactly what Angle's even trying to say here. -- Steve Benen

Sharron's word-salad is almost as tasty as $arah's; that's where your difficulty is coming from.

Posted by: exlibra on October 1, 2010 at 5:10 PM | PERMALINK

and the mindless automatons of Nevada cheer on, the involuntary drool symbolizing their 'intelligence' ...

Posted by: stormskies on October 1, 2010 at 5:11 PM | PERMALINK

Camus,

From what I can tell, in Dearborn the incident in question was the arrest of a group of Christian Missionaries who were proseletyzing outside of an "Arab Festival." They were arrested for disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace. The police claimed they were acting aggressively, shouting at people and creating a hostile situation. The missionaries have denied this account. This is what is being called "Sharia Law" by some in the Far Right "Christians are being persecuted" crowd.

Now, FWIW, it does sound as if the police may have overreacted on this one; the ACLU is even siding with the missionaries here. But its a far cry from the systematic persecution of Christians or the imposition of Sharia law. Its really just the police probably overeacting to the juvenile behavoir of a bunch of a**holes and trying to keep them from getting beat up by an unruly crowd that they were antagonizing.

Posted by: Doug-E-Fresh on October 1, 2010 at 5:25 PM | PERMALINK

If Sharon is worried about parts of America falling under 'foreign systems of law', she needs to go fix Louisanna, which is under a foreign system of laws...

... the Code Napoleon (aka the Code Civil), which is not anything like the English Common Laws descended systems operant in the rest of the 49 states.

Posted by: Lance on October 1, 2010 at 5:26 PM | PERMALINK

They're really good at fighting imaginary enemies and imaginary problems. Too bad the world is so fucked up with real problems; this would be entertaining otherwise.

Posted by: Rathskeller on October 1, 2010 at 5:48 PM | PERMALINK

Thorin-1: as long as the parties to these mediations are voluntary, it doesn't tread on our laws. Sometimes there's evidence of pressure, and people could be snookered into a legal agreement to go to an Imam etc. who would be less favorable to women etc. But that isn't "the government" under the sway of Sharia law, that's the pressure of various other institutions. And once you bring that up, then let's stop corporations from pressuring people to follow "corporate law" in their work and lives, etc.

Posted by: neil b on October 1, 2010 at 5:54 PM | PERMALINK

What about communities that have their own special laws like Halakhah? Is that a threat? I don't feel particularly threatened by people who want to follow religious laws acording to their sacred beliefs.

Posted by: zenster666 on October 1, 2010 at 5:56 PM | PERMALINK

She made up a town. I love her so much.

Posted by: Garrigus Carraig on October 1, 2010 at 6:06 PM | PERMALINK

She is neither crazy nor stupid.

She knows exactly what fear-and-hate buttons to push to get weak-minded, ignorant, gullible, mean-spirited, brainwashed mental slaves of the Ditto-Head media to vote for her.

And she's pushing those buttons as hard as she can.

Posted by: SecularAnimist on October 1, 2010 at 6:06 PM | PERMALINK

Truly a shame that her one ace in the hole is the Reid Factor.

Sharon, dear, take a few hours and head east on Highway 50 to Utah and tell us what you think about the power of a certain church hierarchy over the laws of Utah.

Posted by: berttheclock on October 1, 2010 at 6:48 PM | PERMALINK

Read the doc, guys, very refreshing -
this is Muslim Brotherhood memorandum on Islamic conquest of America.
Doubt you are able to read in arabic, so begin from page 16 where translation starts.
And put attention on paragraph 17 on muslim community center - then you"ll know what means "this is just a community center, not a mosque"

google:
An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Group

Posted by: John Right on October 1, 2010 at 7:35 PM | PERMALINK

John Right, I believe you may have misspelled "Protocols of the Elders of Zion."

...either that, or you completely failed to link these Muslim Brotherhood guys with any politically active Muslims in the US.

Just saying.

Posted by: Mithrandir on October 1, 2010 at 7:45 PM | PERMALINK

She's not crazy. She's an ignorant, hateful Christianist. She inspires loathing.

(Wanna read something, john right? Read this post three times.)

Posted by: cmacc on October 1, 2010 at 8:12 PM | PERMALINK

People who believe that sharia law could be put in place in America are usually men and stupid women and don't really know or understand the American woman. American women are NOT going to give up the rights they have fought hard for. They will not give up their driver's license--not even Republican women would do that. Stating that sharia law will take hold in America usually shows just how really and truly stupid that person is.

Posted by: Bonnie on October 1, 2010 at 8:17 PM | PERMALINK

Oh my god!! Sharia law was so awful that it actually obliterated Frankford, Texas! And so thoroughly that any record of it has ALSO been destroyed, all the way back to the 1930s!!!

God does indeed work in mysterious ways...

Posted by: biggerbox on October 1, 2010 at 8:20 PM | PERMALINK

Never forget Frankford, TX, where the TRUTH was exposed!

Posted by: alanb on October 1, 2010 at 8:23 PM | PERMALINK

You need to stop referring to this woman as mentally ill or somehow intellectually deficient. She is a liar and a hate monger.

Posted by: Nat on October 1, 2010 at 8:23 PM | PERMALINK
Did extremist Senate candidate Sharron Angle (R) really say Sharia law has "taken hold" in some U.S. cities? Pretty much.

Well, read literally, what she actually seems to say is:
1) Constitutional law, not Sharia law holds in Dearborn, MI, and Frankford, TX. ("Dearborn, Michigan, and Frankford, Texas are on American soil, and under Constitutional law. Not Sharia law.")
2) She doesn't understand why #1 is the case. ("nd I don't know how that happened in the United States.")
3) She thinks that #1 (that is, Constitutional law holding in US cities) is wrong, and represents "a foreign system of law" taking hold in the U.S. ("It seems to me there is something fundamentally wrong with allowing a foreign system of law to even take hold in any municipality or government situation in our United States.")

It seems most likely that what she meant to convey is something like Steve's characterization, but that the insanity of her ideas is matched with the incoherence of their expression.

Posted by: cmdicely on October 1, 2010 at 8:49 PM | PERMALINK

Tee hee, cmdicely, @20:49. You're right, of course. But, after Palin, this kind of sloppy thinking expressed in sloppy phrasing is becoming common-place. Thank goodness she didn't present it in a written format...

Posted by: exlibra on October 1, 2010 at 10:46 PM | PERMALINK

This is where being incoherent comes in so handy -- "plausible deniability." All she has to do is say "I never said there was Sharia law anywhere." And she would be technically correct.

You really have to hand it to the Republicans. They have made a very fine system of obfuscation that covers every event.

The only way a Republican could be permanently discredited would be if, during a press conference, he murdered his wife or mother and ate their heart on TV. And I don't think even that would permanently discredit them.

Posted by: karen marie on October 1, 2010 at 10:57 PM | PERMALINK

If any of the tea-yahoos would learn the first thing about Islam, they would know that, by definition, sharia cannot apply to any non-Muslim. Period. It applies only to Muslims.

Of course, try pointing that out to Sharron Angle or Newt Gingrich and they'll start frothing at the mouth and screaming about "Islamofacism."

Posted by: Molly Weasley on October 1, 2010 at 11:07 PM | PERMALINK

Yes she is nuts and you can make fun of her, but the truly frightening thing is that she is just one of a growing number of deluded idiots who believe this is true and that all of Islam is a giant group of conspirators engaged in a coordinated plot to take over America from inside.

Posted by: dweb on October 2, 2010 at 1:53 AM | PERMALINK

I wonder if Sharron is refering to the legal principles first articulated by Shari Lewis and Lambchop?

Posted by: nonheroicvet on October 2, 2010 at 7:01 AM | PERMALINK

From the document referenced above:

"The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions."

All you Eastern-Liberal-Elite nitwits on this site are simply ignorant of what's going on. Have any of you actually lived in Dearborn?

Spewing hate against Sharron Angle doesn't change the reality that (a) there is an Islamist plan to impose Sharia in the United States, (b) it is pretty far along in places like Dearborn, and (c) liberal nitwits like you are among its most powerful assets.

Posted by: Still American on October 2, 2010 at 11:19 AM | PERMALINK

WELL I DEFINATELY AGREE WITH 'I'M STILL A AMERICAN' BECASUE, WELL, FIRST AND FOURMOST, I'M STILL AMERICAN TO.

WELL ANY WAY'S, THE SHARIAH LAW TAKEING OVER IN SO MANY CITY'S, NOT JUST DEARBORNE AND FRANKFURD BUT ALSO IN OTHER TOWN'S SUCH AS LEBANON MISOURRI, AND DAMASCUS MD, AND SYRIA VA.

WELL ITS TRUE. THE POEPLE OF THE MUSLIM RACE TOOK OVER THESE TOWN'S AND CHANGE THEY'RE TOWN'S NAME'S FROM GOOD CHRISTIAN NAMES TO A MUSLIM NAME SUCH AS WE SEE ABOVE, LEBANON DAMASCUS AND SYRIA.

WELL YOU LIB'S WELL BE WISHING THAT YOU SHOUDL OF NEVER FORMED AN ALLIENCE WITH THE TERRIST'S AFTER THEY CHOP OFF YOU'RE HEAD WHEN THEY RAM SHARIA DOWN YOU'RE THROAT!

Posted by: JUST A NORMAL GUY (THE ORIGINAL) on October 2, 2010 at 11:32 AM | PERMALINK

Us "Eastern-Liberal-Elite nitwits" are simply not cowardly enough to be frightened by the specter of less than 1% of the population trying to impose Sharia, eliminate and destroy our civilization, and so on. Grow up, and while you're at it, grow a pair. What is it with the with the right wing? The 2% of the population that is gay is destroying marriage, the less than 1% of the population that is Muslim is destroying our civilization. Meanwhile, the top 2% of the population continues to laugh all the way to the bank thanks to "its most powerful assets" -- the Tea Party/Christianist/"Keep the government out of my Medicare" crowd...

Posted by: Still (a real) American on October 2, 2010 at 11:38 AM | PERMALINK

Us "Eastern-Liberal-Elite nitwits" are simply not cowardly enough to be frightened by the specter of less than 1% of the population trying to impose Sharia, eliminate and destroy our civilization, and so on. Grow up, and while you're at it, grow a pair. What is it with the right wing? The 2% of the population that is gay is destroying marriage, the less than 1% of the population that is Muslim is destroying our civilization. Meanwhile, the top 2% of the population continues to laugh all the way to the bank thanks to "its most powerful assets" -- the Tea Party/Christianist/"Keep the government out of my Medicare" crowd...

Posted by: Still (a real) American on October 2, 2010 at 11:41 AM | PERMALINK

The rude, shouting moron above is partly correct about Lebanon, MO changing it's name. It was named Wyona at the time it was settled, after the local Native American tribe indigenous to the area and it was changed to Lebanon a few years later.

But that happened well over a century ago, before there was a single "Mohammaden" in all of south Missouri. And here is the real kicker - they renamed it after the home town of a beloved local Christian pastor who had relocated to the area years before.

Posted by: Third Generation Mizzou Grad on October 2, 2010 at 11:53 AM | PERMALINK

I think we all know that Nancy Pelosi is trying to impose Sharia in San Francisco, and that all the gays and drag queens are useful idiots helping to implement an Islamic fundamentalist society.

Posted by: Speed on October 2, 2010 at 12:03 PM | PERMALINK

The radical extremist republican demagogues are getting desperate, real desperate in propagating preposterous lies.

These "Things" have adopted Herr Hitler and Herr Goebbels Nazi "Big Lie" propaganda, which is essentially telling lies, even preposterous lies, and repeating them over and over on a 24/7 basis.

McConnell, Boehner and almost all of the radical extremist republicans in Congress, Fox Fraudcasting Hannity, Beck, Savage, O'Reilly, Ingraham, Cavuto, and other minor 5th columnists, hate radio, un-news sources such as Reverend Mooney's "Washington Times," and the boot licking wingnut supporters on the web propagate these despicable lies.

They have no truths to support them, they have no political platform, no political agenda, no values, no principles, no integrity and most certainly, no honor.

For a political party to be legitimate, it must have a record of success. They have none.

Posted by: ghostcommander on October 2, 2010 at 12:27 PM | PERMALINK

All you Eastern-Liberal-Elite nitwits on this site are simply ignorant of what's going on. Have any of you actually lived in Dearborn?

Well in fact I grew up in the Dearborn area, I've worked in Dearborn, went to school in Dearborn, and my wife still works there, and let me just say that you are an impossibly ignorant fuck, on a number of levels and a number of issues.

The population of Dearborn is 6% Muslim. Of the Arabs that reside there, they have historically been predominately Christian, although now that figure may be approaching 50% of the Arabs being Muslim due to recent immigration. The community has very low crime, is a great place to live, and there is laughably no Sharia law. Constitutional law is the only law in town.

Dearborn has had its troubles. It has been a pretty racist town historically, and no African-Americans owned property there until the 1980's even though it borders Detroit. There was simply a system in place of municipal harassment that kept this from happening; when blacks drove into the city, the police drove them out. Even today it is only 1% African American despite being bordered by predominately black cities to the east (Detroit) and to the west (Inkster).

The (white, Christian) police arrested these assholes because they were Fred Phelps-ing the crowd at a pleasant, family street fair, telling them their religion is false and that they were gong to hell. This group of numbskulls is virulently anti-Muslim from a kooky Christian perspective, and a quick trip to their website (acts17.net) shows that they believe Islam is a false religion and that Mohammed was a victim of "black magic" -- and that they are transparently utter nutcases who live in world of demons and oogah-boogah. I can't even IMAGINE the response from pansies like yourself if a group of robe-wearing Muslims were to show up at a church picnic and begin preaching to the picnickers that their religion was false and that Allah was going to throw them into Hell for it. I suspect your fellow lemmings would demand all Muslims be thrown in camps and another Middle Eastern country be bombed. 'Cause that's how cowardly you are.

It's really hard to encapsulate what a miserably racist, ignorant, pants-pissing tool you are in just these few short paragraphs, I apologize for having given it such short shrift. Islam is not secret plan to take over the world and mosques are not secret Al Quaeda basecamps and you are a mouth-breathing idiot. And, as someone who has enjoyed the good friendship of Muslims while not being one myself, I invite you to go fuck yourself with abandon.

Posted by: trex on October 2, 2010 at 12:56 PM | PERMALINK

"The implication seems to be that a 'foreign system of law' has 'taken hold' in Dearborn and Frankford, which is completely insane. Those communities, like every other community in the country, follow American law."

Accuracy and coherence only get in the way when fanning irrational hysteria.

Posted by: 400metres on October 2, 2010 at 4:00 PM | PERMALINK

Seems that a little bit of irrationality is getting to be a badge of honor, proudly worn when there is an election to be won. Is she any worse than Carl Paladino?

Posted by: Khal Spencer on October 2, 2010 at 6:13 PM | PERMALINK

It's all about getting those in the grasp of hysteria-paranoia mind set to become even more so.

If 25% or so of us believe Obama's a Muslim, how hard can it be to sell them that Dearborn, MI is under Sharia law?

Being stupid can proliferate in odd and perverted ways.

How many of us believe, as Christie O'Donnell believes that science is already creating mice with human brains?

Be afraid, be very freakin' afraid.

Karl Rove was right and look at how he ate his words.

Posted by: mickster99 on October 3, 2010 at 4:03 AM | PERMALINK

I wonder if Angle has any objection to binding arbitration.

Arbitration is also a way of mediating disputes that pre-empts/takes the place of the law.

And usually one of the parties (the less powerful one) is pressured into agreeing to be bound by arbitration.

Arbitration, of course, is to the benefit of corporations and other powerful entities. So I won't hold my breath waiting for Angle to come out against it.

Posted by: Nancy Irving on October 4, 2010 at 2:46 AM | PERMALINK




 

 

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