It's an easily-preventable disaster, which GOP officials in Congress are actively trying to make unfold.

Fixed.

"So your answer is it's the spending of money that drives the economy and I don't think that's right."

With this remark, Shadegg didn't just fail Economics 101, he failed Accounting 101.

So: Are we in the midst of a Monty Python skit, or did we fall down Alice's rabbit hole?

Setting aside the moral and economic reasons that makes extending these benefits a no-brainer, this has so many built in political advantages for Dems/Obama. It is a proverbial softball, but I have no doubt they will f it up.

Even if you don't have the votes, get out there and at least pretend to fight.

"When 2.5 million people stop spending, businesses lose customers, which in turn makes them less likely to hire employees."

And more likely to fire more employees.

What I don't understand is how any average middle-class American can support the Republican's position on this.

To my mind it comes down to the answer to this question: in the next two years, are you more likely to lose your job or strike it rich? While we may hope otherwise, the answer is clear. Yet time and time again voters are convinced to vote against their own self-interest.

BARNICLE: What about the fact that unemployment benefits pumped into the economy are an immediate benefit to the economy? Immediate...

SHADEGG: No, they're not! Unemployed people hire people? Really? I didn't know that.

BARNICLE: Rich people create demand out of thin air? Really? I didn't know that.

further fixed.

The problem is that most politicians do not know econ 101, including Obama, who thinks that the debt should be attacked during one of the worst ever recession.

My head is in continual explosion. These people (republicans) are insane and stupid.

Customers create jobs!

I've run businesses for decades. I need people with money in their pockets. Lot's of people. Not just a handful of coupon clipping billionaires.

Job creators my ass.
And if the Democratic party apparatus can't break through on this then I'm probably going to...
What? Insanity rules.

I think Republicans understand "jobs" as essentially liveried servitude. We get paid not for what we do but out of the kindness or pity of some independently wealthy person. It's the only thing that makes any sense of their commitment to giving more money to rich people as a device that "creates jobs." The jobs they imagine are butlers, footmen, and scullery maids.

Come on. The GOP knows exactly what it's doing. They are overtly killing the economy to get elected in 2012. Then they'll say there are no jobs because Obama didn't play ball by giving the rich what they wanted. The MSM will back this up with no fact-finding and Fox Noise will scream it 24/7 to the very lemmings being killed by the GOP who will in return do them a favor by electing more rich-people to finish them off once and for all. What a stupid-ass bunch of idiots.

Let them eat GOP cake slugged-down by GOP cool-aid.

What's not to understand? His grasp of economics is the predicted result of merging Ayn Rand with Supply Side Economics. Throw in the Laffer Curve and you have the trifecta.

If you want a real "tea party", this is how you make one. Astroturf has got nothing on this baby!

My hope is that now Washington will burn.

Where's Obama to lead the fight against this? Sitting down with Republicans to give away the store in tax exemptions for THEIR constituents.

"If Republicans want what's best for the economy"

that's a mighty big "if"

i coulda sworn we live in a consumer society...am i missing somethig?

And yet, when one points out egregious ignorance and manifestly diminutive intellects among this crowd, you're being elitist and unkind to these real, common-sense Americans.

Paradoxically, a lot of those unemployment benefits that get spent by recipients for life needs end up in the pockets of Republican businessmen. Ideology always trumps common sense with these right wingers who tyrannize even those among their own ranks who are hurt downstream by these short sighted tactics.

1. HOW many unemployed voted for Repubs in Nov?
2. Repubs are like Scrooge, "are there no prisons? are there no work houses?
3. In AZ first person died due to medicaid cuts.

When the population finally becomes aware of what Repubs doing, Bastille day will look like a bar fight.

So, Obama... Bash Repubs... They caused this..

What I don't understand is how any average middle-class American can support the Republican's position on this.

-------------------------

For the same reason that average middle-class Americans can buy a $5 piece of fleece for $20 under the brand name Snuggie.

Because Shadegg and crew are salesmen. Salesmen standing-up in front of the TeeVee with make-up, $400 haircuts, and bright smiles saying things like:

"jobless people save money they don't spend it"
or
"demand for flat panel TVs doesn't create more flat panel TVs, it's the production of the TVs in and of itself that drives the production"
or
"tax cuts pay for themselves"
or
"this new suck-cutâ„¢ home hair-cut system is amazing. every household is going to have one. this deal won't last long, so act now."

Murikans don't actually hear the words coming out of the salesman's mouth. They nod along with the pretty salesmen, go get their pocket books and "act now".

"I have no interest in questioning his sincerity."

Yet it's hard to imagine anyone is actually that stupid. I think that the dishonesty/stupidity question isn't even an issue any more with Republicans - they're enclosed in a belief system and fueled by rank partisanship. Thus most of the time one can count on them being both dishonest AND stupid - but at such a "meta" level that this or that fact or analytically incompetent gesture doesn't really matter.

When "even Mike Barnicle" can see through your bullcrap, the ideological shark has been seriously jumped.

"It's the creation of jobs that drives the economy." Well ok, then snap your fingers and create jobs. Right now, this instance. We're waiting.

Teh stoopid...

There's a way to help change their minds.
If all of the unemployed in a district, or a state, converged to riot outside of their Republican Congressmans or Senators offices, it might, just might, make an impression on some of them, and they may change their minds.
And those that don't get the point?
Well, the Governor just follows that states laws as far a replacing a recently deceased representative.
There, SIMPLE!

Evidence, schmevidence; the "job creators" argument implies giving more money to the rich, therefore it must be the right answer.

Apparently Obama and friends don't understand basic economics either. He's wasting time knuckling under to the Republicans on tax cuts for the wealthy
while millions are losing their livelihoods. Sorry but that's despicable.

That man is an idiot!

Once again, I ask the question: Who is Barnicle(or any MSM mouthpiece) and why doesn't s/he ask the follow-up question to expose the insanity of this asshole in front of him?
Where does the money come from to purchase the goods and services that the hiring company is producing? Who does he think does the hiring or firing of those who are currently collecting unemployment? I believe that most large employers are Republican voters and funders. Why aren't they being interviewed and called on the carpet for not hiring the millions of unemployed people available? Ask them who provides them the millions in personal income that supports their obscene lifestyle. Ask them to explain the economics of how their business makes a profit. To whom do they sell? Do any of the unemployment benefits paid to those out of work people end up in their coffers? If the unemployment stops, whom do they sell to?

These people are fucking stupid and ignorant of simple human compassion. What I'd like to do is unmentionable in print. I guess I still have some compassion issues.

Blessings,
st john

My newstracker just said that Obama told R's that he needs to do a better job of reaching out to them. If this is true, he just lost me. What he needed to do was reach out to his base, and spend more time articulating the positions that dems have / had; not more god damn capitulation to the moronic right ....

GOP Congressmen want a continued 10+% unemployment and a continued sluggish economy. They want it for partisan political gain.
There- was that so complicated?

Well, it's kind of like a Monty Python skit, except it isn't funny.

High unemployment drives down wages.
Lower wages drive up profits.
Profits are near all-time highs, and Wall Street is doing just fine. It's just the rest of us that are screwed.

For the vampire class, it's not a bug, it's a feature.

Shadegg is retiring and being replaced by Ben Quayle. Oh, happy day. His father was Stephen Shadegg who ghost-wrote Barry Goldwater's cri du coeur, The Conscience of a Conservative. That said, Shadegg isn't a religious loon or even a Movement Conservative. He's a mainstream Republican who shows just how far to the right the mainstream has gone. In Arizona we're fond of saying how Goldwater couldn't win in today's hard-right political climate. But that presumes Goldwater would have preferred the honor of oblivion to power and its various trappings. What is remarkable about old-line Republicans is how easily they've made their principles align with nihilism and know-nothingism.

REad this horrific public statement by the White House on the Prez/GOPer confab

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/11/30/obama.gop.bipartisan/index.html?hpt=T2

And then email or call the White House and tell them - nicely and respectfully, but clearly and forcefully - to grow a pair. This apologizing to the GOP is political malpractice of the first order. The first time I can actually say I've been totally disgusted by Obama's team. It's beyond stupid.

It's a 3.5% increase for gods sake - those millionaires and billionaires are still going to get their million dollar bonuses, while the unemployed are left to suffer. This is American "exceptionalism" the republicans are talking about, aren't you proud?

What I don't get either is why no one in the corporatge media, when this kind of stupidity is exhibited, reminds such fucking idiots that after 8 years of Bush, and the tax breaks for the 'job creators', after 8 years that only a total of one million Americans were employed: after 8 fucking years .........

The real issue was no one on the esteemed panel called BS on Shadegg...oh wait, they are just as unintelligent as Shadegg...

I feel stupider just for having read Shadegg's comment.

SHADEGG: “Aha! So your answer is it's the spending of money that drives the economy and I don't think that's right. It's the creation of jobs that drives the economy.... Job creators create jobs.”

And yet another episode of:

They’re from Bizarro World

Basic aptitude exams to get into university programs test the ability to argue, pull apart flawed logic to strengthen or weaken cases. Conservative statements like these are on the infantile level of debating and basic reasoning. Any student should be able to pull apart these arguements without having to make many logical connections. Our political debate has really been taken down a few notches.

How do we get a message to Shitdogg and Barnicle Bill to let them know that they are endangering the people of this country with their ignorance? How about a home phone number? Do they have neighbors? I take this personally as I know people on unemployment and this will seriously impact them. I do wish serious harm to these people...

Unlike some, I recognize that Obama still has to make bipartisan mouthnoises until the end of this Congress because its his last chance to get START and DADT repeal done and that doesn't happen if he goes to war with them now. I also recognize that starting January 2, 2011, the name of the game in D.C. is all about posturing and positioning so as to maximize the chance that the MSM Beltway asshats blames the other side for the coming shitstorm of Fail and some bipartisan mouthnoises are going to be a part of that game, no matter how nauseating. (If both sides are deemed equally at fault, Obama loses.)

But damn, I really, really, really hope he isn't sincere about this because there's no Third Way triangulation road to popularity this time.

Another day, another dollar: A lunatic Republican congress person having a ridiculous discussion with a plagiarist posing as a journalist.

Great country.

I'm all for extending jobless benefits as much as anyone because it's the right thing to do, but I have a question:

What do the unemployed spend their unemployment checks on? I know when I was unemployed, I only bought food. There wasn't money for anything else. If my behavior is typical, I don't see how any jobs will be created.

Seould,
Sorry, but that is one of the stupidist things I've ever read.
By getting UI, you KEEP PEOPLE IN F*CKING JOBS, you don't CREATE any.
Holy Cow, do you have to think to remember to breathe, or are you on bended knee every moment thanking God that it's an involuntary reflex?
Maybe YOU should run for the House. You're more than unqualified...

c u n d gulag,
You really are an a-hole. Seould was asking an honest question and you respond like that? How I wish we were all as enlightened as you.
Seould - Assuming that the unemployed would only spend money on food (although there are other essentials such as gas, etc.), look at it this way. The grocer would now see his sales drop, perhaps so much to require s/he to lay off some employees. Or maybe they don't have to lay anyone off but they can't afford the annual bonuses the employees have received in years past. Now you have a grocer and employees of the grocer who don't have as much expendable income as they previously had. So now they find themselves eating out less, putting off the purchase of new clothes, etc. Then you have the clothing stores, movie theaters, etc. with sales numbers down, so they have to make sacrifices...

It's the creation of jobs that drives the economy.... Job creators create jobs. - Shadegg

[bowing to the father of circular logic]

Suppose we don't compensate anybody for their work. As long as we have jobs, everything is just fine?

I've been attempting to calculate how many jobs are contained in the breakup and securitization of my mortgage. Cause the only people making money right now are definitely NOT creating jobs.

I know when I was unemployed, I only bought food. There wasn't money for anything else. If my behavior is typical, I don't see how any jobs will be created.

Presumably you bought food from some sort of enterprise that employed people. Helping you continue to buy food keeps those people working; helping you continue to buy food speeds up the rate at which the store or restaurant orders products, ingredients, supplies, etc.; helping you continue to buy food keeps the store or restaurant buying ads. Thus the store or restaurant gets money that it passes through to its workers, suppliers, and contractors.

That's just off the top of my head.

Using unemployment checks to buy food may not trigger a wave of new small business creation--which may be what you mean by "create jobs"--but it certainly keeps the economic system chugging.

No, it's not complicated at all. By opposing unemployment benefits extensions, the GOP is simply doing the bidding of its corporate funders, who love the idea of a terrified, quiescent workforce. Not only are existing employees terrified of losing their jobs (and thus, will work like slaves to keep them..something that's already happening in many major and smaller corporations as I type), but all those unemployed people now without benefits will be forced, in most cases, to fight for slave-wage jobs.

This kind of thing keeps wages low, and workers scared. That's exactly what the GOP and its masters want. Far from being a bug, this really is a feature of radical GOP policy: keep workers crushed, to benefit the few. No, it's not complicated at all.

I thought that majority ruled. Don't the Democrats control both chambers?

The step that Shaddeg missed was production creates jobs. He was probably to timid to lay down the Say's Law but it isn't going away just because it is inconvenient to the liberal consensus.

BD,
I know it's late to say this, but you are right. I normally don't do stupid stuff like that. It was ME who was stupid!
I'm a bit touchy because I'm one of the ones set to lose benefits soon.

Seould,
I owe you an apology. I was an asshole. I'm sorry!

c u n d gulag - It's never too late. Very classy move on your part and I'm sorry to hear about your current situation. If it's possible, I'm as disgusted as you at the way the republicans are holding hostage the millions of people who find themselves in this awful predicament. They are scum, pure and simple.