Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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January 9, 2011

A 'SURVEYOR'S SYMBOL'?.... On March 22, the day before the Affordable Care Act became law, former half-term Gov. Sarah Palin (R) published a list of House Democrats with crosshairs, like that of a rifle scope, over their districts. A day later, she sent a message to "commonsense conservatives" and "lovers of America" -- it read, "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!"

One of those crosshairs was directed to Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) who was, of course, shot yesterday, which renewed questions about Palin's political excesses. A Palin aide yesterday rejected any connection, and said the crosshairs image was unrelated to firearms.

"We never ever, ever intended it to be gun sights," [Palin staffer Rebecca Mansour] said.

"It's surveyor's symbols," the interviewer Tammy Bruce suggested. [...]

Mansour agreed. She said that the graphic was contracted out to a professional. They approved it quickly without thinking about it. "We never imagined, it never occurred to us that anybody would consider it violent," she said. Rather, she said, that it was simply "crosshairs that you would see on a map."

There is "nothing irresponsible about our graphic," she said.

The two did not discuss the fact that the image was immediately followed by Palin urging like-minded folks to "reload." Of course, everyone knows surveyors' equipment needs to be reloaded, too, right? Oh wait....

It's worth emphasizing that the website for Palin's political action committee was scrubbed yesterday, and offending materials related to Giffords and crosshairs were removed.

So, I have three related questions. The first is, if Palin's materials were entirely defensible, why scrub the website? Isn't this an implicit acknowledgement of an offense?

The second is, if the crosshairs were unrelated to guns -- "Surveyor's symbols"? Seriously? -- why did Palin's team wait to come up with this alternative interpretation until yesterday?

And the third question is, I wonder just how difficult it would be for Palin to simply acknowledge, "In retrospect, those crosshairs were inappropriate. I regret it."

Steve Benen 11:30 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (81)

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Another quote from a Palin aide: "I never went out and blamed Al Gore or any environmentalist for the crazy insane person who went to shoot up the Discovery Channel."

Posted by: Holmes on January 9, 2011 at 11:32 AM | PERMALINK

And the third question is, I wonder just how difficult it would be for Palin to simply acknowledge, "In retrospect, those crosshairs were inappropriate. I regret it."

To quote LeRoy Jethro Gibbs, who I am sure Sarah follows closely:
"Never apologize. It's a sign of weakness."

Posted by: martin on January 9, 2011 at 11:33 AM | PERMALINK

"... I wonder just how difficult it would be for Palin to simply acknowledge, "In retrospect, those crosshairs were inappropriate. I regret it."

Because Sarah, "Daaaaaahling," can't ever be wrong. She can only BE wronged. And so, obviously, the company the designed that graphic, is at fault.

If the "Whore of Babblin' On" ever admitted she was wrong, it might lead some of us to actually think she had some level of maturity. And then where would we be?
Stay true to yourself, there, Sarah.


And, surveyor's symbols? HA!
Except it ain't really funny, now is it?
Nice try (not really), but how dumb do you think we are?

Posted by: c u n d gulag on January 9, 2011 at 11:38 AM | PERMALINK

Ever notice how, say, Bill Clinton never bothered to explain how he DIDN'T stage Vince Foster's suicide? It probably bothered him that idiots were murmuring that he did, but you gain nothing by trying to reason with those types, so he ignored them.

A guilty conscience needs no accuser. But even more than that, I can't help but notice that somehow Palin has managed to make the deaths of six people and an assassination attempt on a sitting member of Congress ALL ABOUT HER.

Posted by: Matt on January 9, 2011 at 11:41 AM | PERMALINK

And let's also get ready for the stomach-turning equivocation that will happen when our demands for accountability and punishment and responsibility will be equated with the motives of the shooter himself -- because "both sides are at fault" is a meme that must be preserved at every turn. No matter what that cost is.

Posted by: EdgewaterJoe on January 9, 2011 at 11:42 AM | PERMALINK

Ah, now we get to play "That thing is not what it very clearly and obviously is. Let's argue about it!" No, thanks. If Palin made a habit of being photographed with a surveyor's level...well, but she doesn't, does she? Those are scoped hunting rifles, shotguns, pistols, etc.

Posted by: Jason on January 9, 2011 at 11:43 AM | PERMALINK

Just a couple of days ago Palin was on talk radio saying Obama was 'hell-bent' on weakening/destroying the country.

Right wing listeners/viewers have heard something along those lines every week for the last two years. They've been convinced that Obama and the Dems are intentionally trying to destroy the country(and give it back to black people and/or indians), and they are the only ones who can stop them. Couple that with the tough guy gun culture on the right, and it's surprising something like this hasn't already happened.

Posted by: Holmes on January 9, 2011 at 11:44 AM | PERMALINK

Talking Points Memo reports (must scroll to update on bottom) that Palin referred to targets as bulleyes in a Tweet (with a screen cap of said Tweet): http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/01/palin-aide-crosshairs-on-target-list-not-actually-gun-sights.php?ref=fpb

Posted by: Mike B. on January 9, 2011 at 11:45 AM | PERMALINK

Surveyor's symbol? Cmon Sarah, you're not just talking with your ignoramus followers. It's us - you'll have to do better.

Palin is a simple terrorist. Much like Bin Laden, she sits back and spews hate, lies and vitriol, spurring her deranged minions into action.

Posted by: ckelly on January 9, 2011 at 11:45 AM | PERMALINK

OK, I give, why would political opponents be targeted by a surveyor?? Does surveying fire up the base?

Also, anyone on the right in fear of their lives from leftist political rhetoric? Fight the false equivalence.

Posted by: jb on January 9, 2011 at 11:47 AM | PERMALINK

Surveyors' symbols. Right.

This should win an award for Lamest Excuse Ever.

Posted by: Basilisc on January 9, 2011 at 11:47 AM | PERMALINK

I understand they're probably panicking right now and desperate to find any way to deflect attention and blame from themselves, but Jesus Christ, can't the Palin gang find better excuses than that?! "Surveyor's symbol?!"

Posted by: gf120581 on January 9, 2011 at 11:49 AM | PERMALINK

I friended Sarah Palin on Facebook (shudder) so I could leave the below comment underneath her posting expressing sympathy for the congresswoman shot in Arizona. Within two minutes it was gone, although comments on my comment were still visible. Orwellian Down the memory hole it goes!

Congratulations, Sarah!
by Rob Conrad on Sunday, January 9, 2011 at 10:14am

When you publish a fund-raising and movement-building map of the country that has gun targets over top of named politicians, and then one of those politicians is shot in the head, you have met one of your goals. Put a check mark next to that person’s name. You should be happy that somebody has come forward to help you meet one of your stated goals. In other words -- listen to this carefully -- you should THANK THE SHOOTER, even if he's not "one of yours". Becuase "the Lord works in mysterious ways," right? That would be the honest thing to do, to be pleased that you have crossed one item off your to-do list. To have any other reaction would be to admit that you "didn't really mean what you said" when you put a marksmen's target over her name, and you DID mean what you said, didn't you? 

Posted by: ChicagoRob on January 9, 2011 at 11:57 AM | PERMALINK

I have a graduate degree in geography and have taken graduate level cartography classes. I have used GIS extensively. I can tell you I have never seen any "map symbols" that represent cross-hairs. What a pathetic attempt to evade responsibility. I know the right will say "it's only words--we're not responsible"--yet we suspend and expel students for bullying (as we should). But adults who call for "second amendment solutions" or who think legislators should be taken from their houses and beaten to a bloody pulp (Red State founder Erickson) if they don't' vote correctly aren't being held responsible.

Posted by: emmie on January 9, 2011 at 12:00 PM | PERMALINK

..and I have a bridge that I can sell to you.

Cross hairs are used in gun sights, but I don't recognize them as surveyor's symbols?

Is their anyone on the planet, who for even a milli-second thought that "lock and reload" referred to scoping out through a surveyor's telescope? Or did the map of Sarah's come to mind, with the targets all over the map, 20 of them?

To remove the cross hairs doesn't magically erase the hatred.

There's hate and those who whip up hatred.

I pray that we see our vitriol hurts us back.

So, let me get this straight....we should shoot those who would destroy our country? We have to take our country back?

Whoa. If what happened in Arizona is "taking our country back" then we are in deep trouble as a nation.

The historical record will show a removal of surveyor's symbols from a once rising star's website. After the shooting in Arizona, American's lost the taste for vengeance and killing and withdrew all armed forces from active wars across the planet, devoting those funds instead for public health care and child nutrition programs at home.

Posted by: Tom Nicholson on January 9, 2011 at 12:00 PM | PERMALINK

"We never ever, ever intended it to be gun sights," [Palin staffer Rebecca Mansour] said.

"It's surveyor's symbols," the interviewer Tammy Bruce suggested. [...]

Only the kool-aid drinkers will believe that one. I think that she's in trouble.

Posted by: AK Liberal on January 9, 2011 at 12:06 PM | PERMALINK

Everyone knows that a website with surveyor symbols should be scrubbed immediately upon the news of a shooting at an opposition party's political event.

It goes without saying.

Posted by: jcricket on January 9, 2011 at 12:09 PM | PERMALINK

Palin spokesperson: "We never ever, ever intended it to be gun sights," [Palin staffer Rebecca Mansour] said.

And pigs will fly.

Posted by: max on January 9, 2011 at 12:10 PM | PERMALINK

They can lie all they want. Luckily, the media lets them get away with it.

Posted by: Second Amendment Solutions on January 9, 2011 at 12:10 PM | PERMALINK

Its demagogy. Call it what it is. Politicians need to stop playing on peoples fears and prejudices and inflaming them.

Posted by: Kill Bill on January 9, 2011 at 12:18 PM | PERMALINK

Could one of the trolls who regularly visit this site please post a link showing an example of a surveyors symbol that looks like the Palin cross-hairs?

Posted by: Joel on January 9, 2011 at 12:21 PM | PERMALINK

You dont represent unstable people by parroting their fears and hates. You dont represent an alcoholic by telling them to drink but dont drive. You dont represent a drug addict by telling them to shoot-up and reload. Of course Palin isnt directly responsible we know that, but FFS stop, all politicians and piundits, catering to their biases for votes, fortune and political control.

Posted by: Kill Bill on January 9, 2011 at 12:23 PM | PERMALINK

Pleeease...what a bunch of phoeey.
If people like Palin & Beck want to exercise their power of free speech with incendiary remarks, slogans, etc., more power to them. But please don't expect sane thinking people to give them a pass when violence occurs. And that's regardless of whether this killer was influenced by such or not. Why do a scrub of one's website if one isn't feeling even a tad bit guilty? Palin's "cross hairs" map came back to haunt her with the victim's own words in last year's interview...and that's the clincher.
Like almost every high profile person in government (and a few brave MSM souls) has stated: "Words have consequences".

Posted by: whichwitch on January 9, 2011 at 12:26 PM | PERMALINK

I need to amend my remark -

Like almost every high profile person in government (except John Kyl)...

Posted by: whichwitch on January 9, 2011 at 12:29 PM | PERMALINK

Boehner suggested that by voting for Obamacare, [Steve] Driehaus “may be a dead man” and “can’t go home to the west side of Cincinnati” because “the Catholics will run him out of town,” Driehaus began receiving death threats, and a right-wing website published directions to his house.
(at Yglesias)

Posted by: Boehner on January 9, 2011 at 12:31 PM | PERMALINK

Back in November Palin herself tweeted about the 'targets', referring to them as a 'bullseye icon'.
So the surveyor symbol explanation sounds a little limp right now. Check it out.
http://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA/status/29677744457

Posted by: BetteB on January 9, 2011 at 12:32 PM | PERMALINK

Isn't it odd how the "Party of Responsibility" is never personally responsible for the results of their actions?

If Henry II's statement "will no one rid me of this man" was enough for him to be blamed for Thomas a'Becket's death, shouldn't the same criteria be used to judge today's hatemongers?

Posted by: RepubAnon on January 9, 2011 at 12:32 PM | PERMALINK

Mike,

Talking Points Memo reports (must scroll to update on bottom) that Palin referred to targets as bulleyes in a Tweet

Don’t you know that surveyors yell, “BULLSEYE !” when they nail the property line the first time ?


Posted by: Joe Friday on January 9, 2011 at 12:33 PM | PERMALINK

Rebecca Mansour is frequently identified as a "screenwriter." I finally decided to check her credits at the IMDb: one 24-minute short, done in 1999. I even had a friend with access check out IMDbPro, where options of other material and other deals would be listed. Nada.

She lies about Palin, she lies about herself. How unsurprising.

Posted by: TCinLA on January 9, 2011 at 12:35 PM | PERMALINK

Sure words have consequences. Frank Luntz, a FOX personality, knows this well that words often 'frame' things in peoples minds and thats exactly why he uses those dials his subjects spin and thats to find what words cause an emotional reaction in people.

In Palins spokesperson spin she says its a surveyors site Surveyors dont use the term aim and reload.

Posted by: Kill Bill on January 9, 2011 at 12:36 PM | PERMALINK

http://www.lakelandrs.com/Library/Images/Page%20Images/Tech%20Services/Survey%20Points%20Image%20Sm.jpg

Survey 'points' not bullseyes.

Posted by: Kill Bill on January 9, 2011 at 12:40 PM | PERMALINK

Palin's pitiful inability to be honest when challenged was evident in her odious "Thanksgiving" message on Facebook, in which she mocked Obama gaffes to "defend" herself from her own NK gaffe. She presented the following falsehoods:
1. That the media made a big deal of her gaffe and/or suggested it was from ignorance instead of a slip - they didn't ("the media" did not.)
2. That she had referred to SK as ally before the slip - no, she didn't.
3. That she corrected herself - no, a host did.
Of course, it's always the little people's fault, say the "personal responsibility" crowd - the contractors, whatever right?

BTW map symbols aren't represented that particular way, look at examples - and that white with black crosshairs, in simple dark circles or esp. with dark background, is generally a "scope" icon. If you see tick marks on the crosshairs, connection nibs etc. it sure as hell is crosshairs and not "map symbols." Real compass marks have a special more elaborate style, blade like extensions, North distinguished: look up "map symbols" on Google and see the difference. (BTW, I didn't even get a set of "surveyor's symbols" from that string.) What an absolute hack.

Posted by: neil b on January 9, 2011 at 12:41 PM | PERMALINK

Another quote from a Palin aide: "I never went out and blamed Al Gore or any environmentalist for the crazy insane person who went to shoot up the Discovery Channel."
But the issue about stimulating such conduct isn't the very existence of opposing groups and the existence vulnerable symbols of each, it's the heated rhetoric that some put out - you see how the Right twists the framing around so deceptively.

Posted by: neil b on January 9, 2011 at 12:50 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks for keeping the dialog focused where it belongs today - on the extreme rhetoric that the media "catapults" to incite and inflame hate and violence.

I look forward to the day we can go back to the THESE TYPES OF POSTS that washmo has build it reputation on.

Posted by: molly on January 9, 2011 at 1:01 PM | PERMALINK

Palin is like Saturday Night Live's 'Gilly' on steroids from hell.

"Sorry!"
OH, GILLY!!!

Posted by: Varecia on January 9, 2011 at 1:02 PM | PERMALINK

Okay, the crosshairs device isn't meant to represent a rifle scope; it comes from a perfectly innocent source.

It's the symbol the Zodiac Killer used.

Posted by: DocAmazing on January 9, 2011 at 1:06 PM | PERMALINK

Remember the whole fracas over "lipstick on a pig" - in retrospect the first Palin "controversy". Palin's supporters INSISTED that the phrase had to be taken literally as a slur against Palin, regardless of the fact that the phrase is a common advertising saying that has nothing to do with anything literally being a pig - but Palin's people insisted that that was how it had to be taken. The shoe is on the other foot now and they can't keep saying enough that what they said was only words and shouldn't have been taken literally. Typical Palin and right wing.

Posted by: andy on January 9, 2011 at 1:08 PM | PERMALINK

Has anyone produced a map using the same symbols? 50 pages of Google images didn't turn up anything close that I could see.

Posted by: bjza on January 9, 2011 at 1:32 PM | PERMALINK

I'm wondering how that Congressional seat will be filled. Will there be a special election, one that the Tea Party will win? Gabrielle Giffords is out of commission for a long time.

Posted by: Nancy Green on January 9, 2011 at 1:36 PM | PERMALINK

The two did not discuss the fact that the image was immediately followed by Palin urging like-minded folks to "reload." Of course, everyone knows surveyors' equipment needs to be reloaded, too, right? Oh wait....

That's not all. The text accompanying Palin's Facebook posting of that map included such surveying-specific terms as "aim" and "salvo."

Posted by: shortstop on January 9, 2011 at 1:52 PM | PERMALINK

Wow. Palin had the opportunity here to rise above the partisan ugliness and try to start the healing process, if not for the Congresswoman and Federal judge, then at least for the innocent child killed.

She could have chosen to speak directly, instead of allowing the hateful Rebecca Mansour to speak for her.

She chose not to. Speaks volumes as to her character.

Posted by: g on January 9, 2011 at 1:54 PM | PERMALINK

"I never went out and blamed Al Gore or any environmentalist for the crazy insane person who went to shoot up the Discovery Channel."

I don't recall Al Gore using language suggesting gunplay.

Posted by: g on January 9, 2011 at 1:56 PM | PERMALINK

I was a surveyor for 5 years. That's not any symbol used by surveyors. The sight for a theodolite does have crosshairs, but it's a simple +. IOW, complete BS from Team Palin.

Posted by: Werewolf on January 9, 2011 at 2:00 PM | PERMALINK

I wonder just how difficult it would be for Palin to simply acknowledge, "In retrospect, those crosshairs were inappropriate. I regret it."

Very difficult - she'd have to regret it first.

Make no mistake - what happened yesterday is what was supposed to happen. It was neither an unforeseen nor an unintended consequence of the rhetoric of the right wing.

Posted by: Roddy McCorley on January 9, 2011 at 2:01 PM | PERMALINK

It's ok, Howard Kurtz says not to play the "blame game."

Afterall, it's not Sarah Palin's fault that someone applied a second amendment remedy to the problem of a Democrat winning and election against a Teabagger.

Besides, leftwing nutjobs shoot moderate Republicans (oxymoron) in the head all the time in response to violent rhetoric from the likes of Alan Grayson, Dennis Kucinich, Bernie Sanders Keith Olberman.

Those guys are always talking about salvo, take aim, reload, lock and load, don't tread on me and and posting the addresses of people they disagree with.

You see, both sides do it so it's ok.

Posted by: Winkandanod on January 9, 2011 at 2:21 PM | PERMALINK

Sara Palin always referred to herself as a hockey mom. Now we know she meant bull hockey. The defense is transparently false.

First, a surveyor crosshairs is completely out of context with Palin's image whereas hunt'in and shoot'in is a big part of her goin' rogue persona.

A cardinal rule of communications is - know your audience. Even if, technically, the artist used a surveyor's transit graphic, the intent was clearly a gun scope.

Her attempt to recast the nastiness of the last election is a profile in scourage.


Posted by: Bob on January 9, 2011 at 2:26 PM | PERMALINK

Surveyor's symbols! Of course! Why didn't we see it before? Given that Sarah Palin always poses with surveying equipment, and her slogan is "Don't retreat, re-survey!"

Posted by: george.w on January 9, 2011 at 2:55 PM | PERMALINK

The latest apologetical take on "surveyor"is, although "symbol" is still used: it's the crosshairs inside the sighting instrument instead of rifle sight crosshairs, not a symbol like on a map. See e.g. post "Listen Up Lefties: The Difference Between The DNC’s Bull’s-Eyes And Sarah Palin’s Surveyor’s Crosshairs" at http://thespeechatimeforchoosing.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/"" altho the writer doesn't understand to make that clear the link to illustration explains that. That isn't very compelling since anyone can just take a given visual, and retroactively say "I meant it to be ______" fill in blank with whatever seems to fit. The effect the symbol has then, "is what it is."

More to the point are the bullseye symbols on a DNC map, indeed targeting districts. As I said at the above site (quite a nasty right-wing tough, there):

Far more to the point than such diagrams, both of which are “targets”, is overheated rhetoric like talk of “ballot box or bullet box,” “second amendment solutions”, “reload” etc. The worst of that is direct reference of threat to use firearm violence, not just “military” style rhetoric in general - and the difference matters. BTW any clue as to the ID of that anonymous “senior Republican Senator who said Republicans have a special responsibility to tone down rhetoric, etc? Do you agree?

Posted by: neil b on January 9, 2011 at 3:03 PM | PERMALINK

BTW, at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2482716/posts they have a symbol just like Palin's, with caption "Surveyor Symbol
Used to indicate locations on maps"
I wonder where they got that?
See Werewolf above, and from that thread:

>
To: Extremely Extreme Extremist [gotta love it]

Post would be a good deal more convincing with a couple of links to sites showing the meaning of the symbol as used on maps.

I’ve used all kinds of maps for half a century and it’s not one I’m familiar with.

The only place I’ve found it on line is as a symbol used to show where surveyors should place themselves while working around traffic.

IOW, it’s a symbol for a surveyor, which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense in Sarah’s graphic. OTOH, it’s pretty obviously not crosshairs.

If anybody has other examples of its use, I’d like to see it.
>

Dig this: Google search [and as entire string] yielded:

Your search - "Surveyor Symbol" "Used to indicate locations on maps" - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:

* Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
* Try different keywords.
* Try more general keywords.
* Try fewer keywords.
>
Yep, nothing at all - and that's hard to do with Google.

Posted by: neil b' on January 9, 2011 at 3:14 PM | PERMALINK

"...just how difficult it would be for Palin to simply acknowledge, "In retrospect, those crosshairs were inappropriate. I regret it.""

It's impossible for her to acknowledge, because she is a moral coward as well as a liar.

Posted by: robert on January 9, 2011 at 3:20 PM | PERMALINK

Latest, someone says from map link at http://www.mapcenter.com/?section=usgs_map_symbols that it's a "Principal Point" ("unmonumented")
Really, "target" language and graphics are used a lot, this is a secondary issue compared to "rhetoric" that directly insinuates use of real violence.

Posted by: neil b on January 9, 2011 at 3:23 PM | PERMALINK

Knowing the way conservative minds work, you can totally see that as soon as the shooting happened - or as soon as attention began to drift toward those crosshairs images - the damage control party said, "Quick!! Who else besides a hunter, or someone for other reasons firing a rifle, looks through a scope that magnifies and has crosshairs on it for focus??" And "surveyor" is what they came up with.

If they had any brains, they could have said they meant the image superimposed on one's view in certain binoculars was what they intended to suggest; although few are exactly the same as crosshairs (and those that are generally are for military applications), they do include scales to allow the viewer to give a rough inclination above the horizon, etc..., which would be totally defensible - we wanted to suggest conservative voters should "focus" on those states. The rest they could blame on the company they used to process the advertising. Everybody knows conservatives will drop you like a hot rock if you get them in trouble, or if you appear to be an inviting way out.

I should qualify that - it WOULD HAVE BEEN totally defensible, if Palin hadn't succumbed to the lure of a juicy soundbite with that "reload" comment. Nobody but the nuttiest of the gun nuts is going to be fooled.

Posted by: Mark on January 9, 2011 at 3:24 PM | PERMALINK

Palin's TV show "Sarah Palin's Alaska" was going to highlight Palin's interest in trigonometric surveying techniques in season two.

Posted by: David on January 9, 2011 at 3:37 PM | PERMALINK

"We never imagined, it never occurred to us that anybody would consider it violent," she said. Rather, she said, that it was simply "crosshairs that you would see on a map."

So in the future when someone puts together a map with skulls and crossbones at the homes of Palin and Beck and Limbaugh we can defend it by saying it's just because of a genuine interest in phrenology.

Posted by: trex on January 9, 2011 at 4:03 PM | PERMALINK

The right-winger who has been most flagrant in using the rhetoric of violence is Allen West. For example, he once infamously urged his followers to fix bayonettes. His hometown paper was so appalled at West's violent talk that it first endorsed his little-known primary opponent, and then in the general election endorsed the Democratic candidate. And yet, West won and a few days ago took his seat in Congress alongside Rep. Giffords.

West's victory was especially galling because he was drummed out of the Army for torturing a prisoner in Iraq and firing a gun at the man's head as if to murder him. This is the kind of person that Americans have learned to embrace as a mainstream politician.

Posted by: smintheus on January 9, 2011 at 4:05 PM | PERMALINK

For anyone who cares about surveying wonkery, a "principal point" can be represented as like crosshairs in a circle. However, it doesn't represent just "locations of things", it's a control point, a reference like the origin of coordinates. There'd be no point in having a bunch on a map to show designated "spots."

In any case, why do Palin's supporters go for this? Wouldn't the brave thing be, say "yeah they were cross hairs, and 1. sorry for any tension caused etc or 2. people use target metaphors a lot, it's unfortunate and just one of those things that could happen to other people.

Posted by: neil b on January 9, 2011 at 4:07 PM | PERMALINK

Is the conservative mind constituted entirely out of lying to oneself about one's deeds and their motivations?

How could Palin come up with the weaseling she has?

Bush was the same way: cannot take responsibility for his actions, and yell at others who point them out.

Imagine HER calling those who have called her on this "obscene"!

Posted by: jjm on January 9, 2011 at 4:13 PM | PERMALINK

Why those weren't crosshairs! They don't even look remotely like crosshairs. Obviously, they were a crucifix! The sign of the Lord. You got a problem with Jesus?

You moonbat liberals are so anti-Christian!

Posted by: The Fool on January 9, 2011 at 4:27 PM | PERMALINK

Shameless. But do people really expect any sort of decency or class out of the Palin bunch?

Posted by: citizen_pain on January 9, 2011 at 5:38 PM | PERMALINK

Palin herself in a tweet from Nov. 4, 2010, called the symbols, bullseyes:

http://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA/status/29677744457

She and Mansour are full of shit.

Posted by: moe99 on January 9, 2011 at 5:50 PM | PERMALINK

Palin: gutless liar. It is great to hide behind symbols of power and death until your crazy followers start following your lead. I think she should be indicted and arrested. This hate symbolism is worth a look. The reality is she sponsored a provocative assassination implying tack against her political enemies. Proudly tweeted about reloading too.

Posted by: Sparko on January 9, 2011 at 8:13 PM | PERMALINK

It's true, just the other day I saw Sarah on the TV machine survey and skin a caribou.

Posted by: Shivas on January 9, 2011 at 8:49 PM | PERMALINK

From Palin’s Facebook page:
“To the teams that desire making it this far next year: Gear up! In the battle, set your sights on next season’s targets! From the shot across the bow - the first second’s tip-off - your leaders will be in the enemy’s crosshairs, so you must execute strong defensive tactics. You won’t win only playing defense, so get on offense! The crossfire is intense, so penetrate through enemy territory by bombing through the press, and use your strong weapons - your Big Guns - to drive to the hole. Shoot with accuracy; aim high and remember it takes blood, sweat and tears to win."

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=375184908434

These people are evading responsibility for their actions in the most despicable way.

Posted by: meta on January 9, 2011 at 9:03 PM | PERMALINK

(as a winger would say)
You all miss the point, those were gunsights like on a scope. The lone lunatic who might be a liberal used a semi-automatic 30 bullet clip Glock. It doesn't have a scope. So Sarah Palin is in the clear. And as for that sportsmanlike imperative: "Don't retreat, Reload" the shooter ignored her advice because with a 30 bullet clip, you don't have to reload that much.

(as a rational person)
Yes, it there was nothing wrong with it why take the website down ?
Perhaps it was the early premature reports of Gifford's death. Since there is nothing wrong with the map, then it should reappear because they are still needed.

Posted by: marc sobel on January 9, 2011 at 9:13 PM | PERMALINK

Kee-ripe. Surveyor's symbol? No one in the PAC office even questioned whether someone might think "target"? What a crock. The idiots thought it was a cute idea -- >tee-hee!

Posted by: R'Chard on January 9, 2011 at 9:20 PM | PERMALINK

Why did white America embrace this disgraceful woman? This waste of space? Why did they turn to such a disgusting person and disgusting party in droves this midterm? This map was up over a year and instead of showing distaste for it white people gobbled it up. Nothing but fear and hate yet they thought this was what is good for America. The midterm numbers on how white people voted is very telling and sad. :(

Posted by: rippy on January 9, 2011 at 9:25 PM | PERMALINK

adding to my comment. Should be "why Do white America embrace etc..."

Posted by: rippy on January 9, 2011 at 9:27 PM | PERMALINK

The "they all do it" started within hours of the shooting, yesterday, with Matt Bai's odious and mendacious op-ed in the New York Times that equated Palin's taking down her crosshairs with the alleged removal of a comment in a Daily Kos blog saying that Giffords is "dead to me" (which of course means something completely different).

Posted by: PQuincy on January 9, 2011 at 10:01 PM | PERMALINK

Jim H.How could any thinking individual believe that this would give license to some wacko to shoot anyone? What exactly is there to apologize for?

Because, you fuckwit, cross hairs and gun targets is the language of physical threats. It is the language of the mafia, of thugs, of hired goons, and people who aim to hurt someone. If every time your neighbor looked at you or a member of your family and smiled creepily and made a gun to the head gesture, you wouldn't be so quick to call it a fucking metaphor.

If you were on city council and people began distributing flyers that said Jim H. is an "enemy of humanity" and a "secret Marxist bent on destroying the country" who "must be taken out" and they put a picture of your face with a gun sight on it you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as a metaphor.

And along with the cross hairs the right has been whipping up their own into absolute hysteria, with Beck weeping and screaming about secret Marxist plans to destroy the country. I know, I talk to people like this every fucking week and all they know is that Obama is a secret MuslimHitlerMarxistsocialistfascist with a plan to destroy America from within. Like you, apparently, they don't have a fucking clue what they're talking about but some rightwing fucktard who makes a zillion dollars crying on TV told 'em so, so it must be a reason to be afraid and they love their country and they don't understand but they feel like their very lives are in danger. Hell, a colleague of mine who is a professional started screaming at me recently that she was going to move to Australia because of "all the socialism we have now from Obama."

When I asked her WHAT socialism, she couldn't say. Glenn Beck told her it was there and that was good enough for her. She didn't know Australia has actual socialized health care, and why would she? She learns all she need to know from Beck.

And so when one of those individuals whose moral and intellectual development are only barely below your own, apparently (presuming you haven't shot anyone in the face recently) reach a certain point they think they have no choice to save the country but to go shoot some liberal Democrat in the face because she voted for health care reform. And that is EXACTLY what Beck and Limbaugh and others are angling for. In the long run their agenda is hopeless if faced with an enlightened electorate -- but if the whole thing comes crashing down through the ignorance and anarchy that they have fomented then those with guns and money have a chance at getting what they want.

Yes, I know you don't know what "fomented" means. Get a fucking dictionary and look it up, asshole.

Posted by: trex on January 9, 2011 at 10:15 PM | PERMALINK

Was anyone expecting the truth from Assassinatrix Palin or anything resembling an apology in regards to her rifle scope cross hairs targeting Giffords. Republicancer Alexander trying to preserve the Wicked Witch of the North's political viability in the 2012 election will be just the start of what we will hear in the next few weeks. It's the same crap as the pro-lifers targeting abortion doctors. Sadly, there will be no repercussions for The Wicked Bitch of the North either since it can't be proven she directly encouraged Loughner when his actions were imminent. What a terrible thing, but I can't help but think of our country's interference in other countries causing things like this on a daily basis in those countries. As always, it's a conservative attacking or killing progressives.

Here's a quote from Glenn Greenwald, "it nonetheless is true that the Supreme Court has emphatically held in Brandenburg v. Ohio that the First Amendment bars the Government from punishing people even for explicit advocacy of violence except where it's designed and likely to result in "imminent" (i.e., basically immediate) violent acts.

Posted by: tko on January 9, 2011 at 11:34 PM | PERMALINK

It is a map symbol - a very obscure one found on some topographic maps to represent some sort of surveyed monument. It is also the geologic map symbol for flat-lying sedimentary rocks. Face it - in both cases, nothing like what team palin was trying to cover for their obvious hate mongering.

In short, Team Palin is insulting our intelligence. Pure bullshit, and they know it.

Posted by: bigtuna on January 9, 2011 at 11:59 PM | PERMALINK

Get it right for Christ's sake: Stop blaming Palin and start blaming Fox News. They are the real cause of all of this, and do far more damage than bin Laden could dream of.

Posted by: Squeaky McCrinkler on January 10, 2011 at 2:44 AM | PERMALINK

And trex at 10:15, your friend's going to hate Australia - not only do we have "socialised" medicine, we also have pretty sane gun laws.

It's kind of a reasonable place . . . where I worked there was a union dispute about a real prick of a boss, and a poor fellow named Harry said, "we've got to get rid of this guy". The boss heard about it, claimed it was a threat, and Harry was out. The union could do nothing to save his job. I was his union rep and I still think about it.

This is a chance to take the fight to Fox and Palin - don't hold back. What was it McCain said about being Americans? "We fight". He was just on the wrong side. Like he was in Vietnam.

Posted by: Squeaky McCrinkle on January 10, 2011 at 2:58 AM | PERMALINK

Do we ban "Grand Theft Auto" because a few jerkwads might carjack someone?

Do we outlaw porn because some odd men may get weird ideas about some of the stuff packaged inside?

Are we expecting conservatives to take insane people into account when we decry overreaches from their side?

The only argument I see here is that undermining the entire fabric of democracy is at stake; reducing our rule of the people to a rule by the well armed. Maybe that's enough, but let's keep some perspective even as we loathe the tepid reaction from the bloodthirsty enablers of the McVeigh's and Loughners of their community.

Posted by: toowearyforoutrage on January 10, 2011 at 8:24 AM | PERMALINK

It is a map symbol - a very obscure one found on some topographic maps to represent some sort of surveyed monument. It is also the geologic map symbol for flat-lying sedimentary rocks. Face it - in both cases, nothing like what team palin was trying to cover for their obvious hate mongering.

OTOH, "flat-lying sedimentary rock" describes Palin perfectly.

Posted by: PattyP on January 10, 2011 at 8:35 AM | PERMALINK

Mansour agreed. She said that the graphic was contracted out to a professional. They approved it quickly without thinking about it.

Pretty accurately describes how Republicans run the country when they're in charge.

Posted by: PattyP on January 10, 2011 at 8:38 AM | PERMALINK

Can you imagine how the half-term alaskan quitter's thugs would've howled if a reticle appeared over her name?

Posted by: me4texas on January 10, 2011 at 9:17 AM | PERMALINK

Watching you liberals orgasmiz over this "straw man" argument is predictable. There is no evidence Loughner even knew anything about Palin, but you blame Palin because "IT COULD HAPPEN". Pleaseeee, what insanity!!

Loughner did read the "Communist Manifesto" and "Mein Kampf".

Why did the Daily Kos scrub it website, removing a post calling Giffords "Dead"??

Loughner was one of your own.

Obama did say "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun"

...so it's Bush's fault, right?

Posted by: Blue on January 10, 2011 at 11:28 AM | PERMALINK

And the third question is, I wonder just how difficult it would be for Palin to simply acknowledge, "In retrospect, those crosshairs were inappropriate. I regret it."

It's very simple. She DOESN'T regret it. She's happy to see a Democrat get critically wounded and almost killed.

Posted by: Texas Aggie on January 10, 2011 at 11:32 AM | PERMALINK

Surveyor's Symbol?!!! Give me a break. If that is true then Sarah won't mind this shirt: http://tinyurl.com/palinscrosshairs

Posted by: ischulman on January 10, 2011 at 1:42 PM | PERMALINK

Here's a bright note to all this. Tom "the hammer" delay was just handed a 3 year sentence. Yahoo! I hope his roomie loves the way he dances.

Posted by: me4texas on January 10, 2011 at 4:01 PM | PERMALINK




 

 

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