Editore"s Note
Tilting at Windmills

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April 27, 2011

IT'S COME TO THIS.... For the second consecutive day, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney was peppered with questions about President Obama's birth certificate. It wasn't just some fringe reporter who worked his way into the briefing room -- the questions came from CNN's White House correspondent.

It was a reminder that our political discourse is deeply stupid. It was also a reminder that media outlets that already know the "birther" conspiracy theory is baseless continue to treat this garbage as a legitimate area of inquiry.

And so, this morning, when reporters gathered at the White House for the morning gaggle, staffers distributed copies of the president's birth certificate -- not the one released in 2008, but the "long-form" certificate requested by hysterical conservatives.

Soon after, White House Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer posted this item online.

In 2008, in response to media inquiries, the President's campaign requested his birth certificate from the state of Hawaii. The state sent the campaign the President's birth certificate, the same legal documentation provided to all Hawaiians as proof of birth in state, and the campaign immediately posted it on the internet. That birth certificate can be seen here (PDF).

When any citizen born in Hawaii requests their birth certificate, they receive exactly what the President received. In fact, the document posted on the campaign website is what Hawaiians use to get a driver's license from the state and the document recognized by the Federal Government and the courts for all legal purposes. That's because it is the birth certificate. This is not and should not be an open question.

The President believed the distraction over his birth certificate wasn't good for the country. It may have been good politics and good TV, but it was bad for the American people and distracting from the many challenges we face as a country. Therefore, the President directed his counsel to review the legal authority for seeking access to the long form certificate and to request on that basis that the Hawaii State Department of Health make an exception to release a copy of his long form birth certificate. They granted that exception in part because of the tremendous volume of requests they had been getting. President Barack Obama's long form birth certificate can be seen here (PDF). Correspondence with the Hawaii State Department of Health can be seen here (PDF).

At a time of great consequence for this country -- when we should be debating how we win the future, reduce our deficit, deal with high gas prices, and bring stability to the Middle East, Washington, DC, was once again distracted by a fake issue. The President's hope is that with this step, we can move on to debating the bigger issues that matter to the American people and the future of the country.

The borderline-racist conspiracy theory was ridiculous anyway, and this step was entirely unnecessary. It should, however, once again put any lingering doubts to rest.

But it won't. If there's one thing right-wing voices have made clear, it's that reason and evidence are irrelevant. They didn't come up with a birther garbage out of sincere concerns; they came up with this to cast doubts on the president's legitimacy and make him out to be The Other in the eyes of the mainstream.

I don't necessarily blame White House officials for wanting to end this nonsense once and for all, but if they're expecting the hysterical right to move on, they're likely to be disappointed.

Update: All of the cable networks are hanging on Donald Trump's every word this morning, including his boast that he feels "very proud." American politics is often painful, but I can scarcely believe how stupid it's become.

Steve Benen 9:15 AM Permalink | Trackbacks | Comments (62)

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At this moment, our racist loved ones and neighbors should back away slowly, and simply crawl back into the wood work of their intellectual hovels!

Simply did I say? Just the speed of bigoted simpletons who've been encouraged by our savage media for far too long now! -Kevo

Posted by: kevo on April 27, 2011 at 9:23 AM | PERMALINK

Does anyone really believe this "questionable document" will quiet the birthers?

Posted by: hope on April 27, 2011 at 9:25 AM | PERMALINK

Every birther will demand to be able to hold the long form birth certificate in his or her hand. Next they'll demand DNA tests to confirm that the Barack Hussein Obama born in Hawaii in 61 is the same person in the Oval Office today.

Giving in to these assholes is only re-arming them.

And I don't think this is racist. The GOP tries to undermine the legitimacy of every Democrat who's elected President.

Posted by: Lifelong Dem on April 27, 2011 at 9:28 AM | PERMALINK

I don't necessarily blame White House officials for wanting to end this nonsense once and for all, but if they're expecting the hysterical right to move on, they're likely to be disappointed.

Correct. We are about to find out, yet again, just how conspiracy theorists operate. It will turn out that this evidence is not good enough and some new additional hurdle will be required. Cole had a piece up the other day about a birther who claims they will only be satisfied by hearing from people who physically saw the birth. The fact that those people exist and have been speaking out for years is, of course, no barrier to his skepticism.

The President has to know that there is no standard of evidence that will satisfy these people. Our media seems to be getting stupider by the hour.

Posted by: brent on April 27, 2011 at 9:29 AM | PERMALINK

On the bright side, at least we all know what Rush, O'Reilly, Hewitt and all the other right-wing Big Brains will be chattering about today ...

Posted by: Lifelong Dem on April 27, 2011 at 9:29 AM | PERMALINK

Because despite what REP. CAIN thinks those AMERICAN people who are REPUGS "are as stupid as Dems/Liberals" think they are...and they want people to believe they are NOT racist...How long before Trump challenges this copy and says, "Just wait we have more breaking news about this coming up?"...I live with idiots that think this way right here in FLORIDUH all winter...makes your head explode!!!!!

Posted by: Dancer on April 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM | PERMALINK

I don't see a raised seal, do you?

And I have some research to do on the kerning.

Posted by: zmulls on April 27, 2011 at 9:30 AM | PERMALINK

And I have some research to do on the kerning.

I already did and discovered that the document was created on a typewriter manufactured in Kenya.

I'm still waiting on Obama's circumcision certificate before I make a final pronouncement...

Posted by: Todd for VT House on April 27, 2011 at 9:32 AM | PERMALINK

Birthers, of course, won't trust the source, so they will claim that the document is a forgery. What I hope, however, is that Obama uses this as an opportunity to challenge journalists to act responsibly instead of feeding baseless conspiracies. Of course, the media will then claim the president has turned this into a war against journalism, but that Palinesque whining isn't very effective, since so many don't trust the media anyway.

Posted by: Danp on April 27, 2011 at 9:33 AM | PERMALINK

This so-called birth certificate is CLEARLY FAKE!!!

That background pattern comes from bank checks and wasn't used until the 1980s. I know because my sister-in-law told me and she has been a bank teller for 22 YEARS!

Obama must have threatened to send the Hawaii Dept. of Health Director to a FEMA run reeducation camp in order to get her to participate in this OBVIOUS FRAUD!!!!!

Well it's NOT GOING TO WORK!!!!!!! Us REAL AMERICANS in the Tea Party are too smart for them. We're going to keep digging until we find out the truth.

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET US FREE from this KENYAN COMMUNIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Proud Republican on April 27, 2011 at 9:35 AM | PERMALINK

Perhaps you should give the President more credit than "if he's hoping..." Perhaps he released it because it will push the crazies further into insanity territory, so that independents and people who were just uneasy with the whole thing can now point to it and tell the crazy "shut up" when the crazy comes around with his theory.

Posted by: Emma on April 27, 2011 at 9:39 AM | PERMALINK

That background pattern comes from bank checks and wasn't used until the 1980s. I know because my sister-in-law told me and she has been a bank teller for 22 YEARS!

*golf clap*

Posted by: Todd for VT House on April 27, 2011 at 9:39 AM | PERMALINK

One has only to look at Line 11 for the evidence: Birthplace. "Kenya, East Africa". It's right there, in black and green.

Posted by: DAY on April 27, 2011 at 9:40 AM | PERMALINK

Suggestion to "Proud Republican": Nice work overall but next time through in some more misspellings and incorrect usages. Not quite credible without them -- although you did fine work with the hyper-capitalization.

Posted by: Mark on April 27, 2011 at 9:40 AM | PERMALINK

In nearly forty years of studying conspiracy theories this is by and far the most outlandish... moreso than even extra-terrestrials cooking up Stepford Clones of elected officials in the catacombs beneath the world trade center.

Un. Flipping. Believable.

Posted by: Ten Bears on April 27, 2011 at 9:44 AM | PERMALINK

If you ever wanted evidence that the media, all of the media is on the corporate payroll then the performances of Tweetie and Larry O'Donnell on MSNBC last night should provide all the proof you need. First Tweetie spent 15 minutes with Pat Buchanan whipping up the Donald's latest garbage that Obama's academic credentials are suspect. Then Lawrence O'Donnell went to the Donald whipped birther story again for 15 minutes.

People, the Donald has a television show on NBC. You think maybe the "journalists" on MSNBC haven't been told that hyping the Donald's birther nonsense is good for the ratings of the Donald's reality show?

Corporate media whoring isn't about ideology. The much more appropriate phrase is "follow the money."

Posted by: Ron Byers on April 27, 2011 at 9:47 AM | PERMALINK

While I think it’s ridiculous, because if someone put a gun to my head, I couldn’t produce my long-form birth certificate. Have no idea what it look like, have no idea where to get it, because the hospital I was born at has since closed. The only birth certificate I have is one that has similar information to what the President has already released.

It’s an absolute crock of shyt, and it’s only because this President is BLACK.

BUT….politically, I think it’s brilliant of the President.

Because, guess what, folks?

The President knows what I know….


There will be a poll taken next week, asking now, if the Republican Birthers are satisfied…

the answer to that poll will be NO.


Because it’s not about the Birth Certificate…it’s about him being a Black Man.


And, once that poll is released that reveals that POTUS even releasing the Birth Certificate doesn’t make a DAMN BIT OF DIFFERENCE WITH THESE PEOPLE…

The albatross that is the Birthers will be hung around the GOP going into 2012 like an anvil.


Posted by: rikyrah on April 27, 2011 at 9:48 AM | PERMALINK

How this plays out:

1 Birthers will still refuse to admit it's real.
2 GOP candidates will double-down on the conspiracy theories
3 Co-opted press (now that they've been given a nice handie) will begin viewing the fringe types critically
4 Electoral victory over opponents who marginalized themselves

Posted by: Widdershinnz on April 27, 2011 at 9:49 AM | PERMALINK

These are the same forces that questioned John Kerry's war record. They'll just move on to how did Obama get into Columbia and Harvard Law? It will never end as long as the so called MSM continues to let these folks dictate what's covered.

Posted by: kd bart on April 27, 2011 at 9:50 AM | PERMALINK

Given that the White House strategic political team was not born yesterday, any suggestion that this release took place, and now, because "it's for the good of the country", or to "put an end to these rumors" seems a bit naive.

The birthers and their racist enablers will of course continue their nonsense. This release won't satisfy them, and the White House knows this. Moreover, the right wing media profit machine can no more resist talking about this for the next few days than a shark can resist fresh meat in the water. We should conclude, therefore, that one purpose of this is bait, to create a new media flareup just when most Americans actually are thinking a little more seriously about serious issues (budgets, Medicare, an improving economy but deteriorating public services, etc.)

Moreover, given the well known tropisms of the media, this release also offers some benefits. The Beck-Limbaugh-shockjock axis will of course be drawn in, but the 'serious' media is in a bind. Profit demands that they cover it...but they will feel embarrassed. It sets them on their heels, and may generate more distancing and shift their stance, thus helping reframing coverage of the President and the White House more broadly.

I'm not nearly paying enough attention, or knowledgeable enough about these games, to guess why the White House chose _now_ to make this move, rather than waiting or going with it earlier, however.

Posted by: PQuincy on April 27, 2011 at 9:51 AM | PERMALINK

Queue the crazies to now say

"He's the president, he used his seat of power to forge this false document."

Posted by: Dylan on April 27, 2011 at 9:53 AM | PERMALINK

I am glad to see the WH take this action because it legitimately takes away the wail-o'-the-loons about "why doesn't he just reeeleeaassse his birth certificccattteee! The lonnnggg forrrrmmmmm!!!"

There is no possible legitimate excuse for that now. Yes, the loons will persist in this lunacy, but now there is once-and-for-all clear, solid evidence that they're engaged in a loon's game. The days ahead should be chock-full-o'-entertainment as the loons pore over their holy grail long-form birth certificate and announce "gotcha" after "gotcha" -- only to have their hopes dashed as it's proven their "gotcha" is worthless and they continue to be exposed as racists/dolts/imbeciles. At some point in the next two weeks, I'm sure James O'Keefe and Breitbart will also brew up their own particular brand of garbage distractions as well.

And I thought it was going to be a slow week!

I really hope that at last this is the kind of thing that will convince the WH/WH Communications Team that they can't keep ignoring this type of wingnut crap when it first appears - somehow, it HAS to be addressed, because the right-wing megaphone is so loudly pervasive, this kind of virulent nonsense inevitably blows up into the kind of situation where half of registered Republicans believe something that was deliberately floated by the GOP as pure nonsense. And where you have the MSM deciding that pure nonsense is actually the most vitally important issue of our time.

Posted by: June on April 27, 2011 at 9:54 AM | PERMALINK

Birthers think it's fake because it doesn't have the Obama's baby footprints on it.

Posted by: pol on April 27, 2011 at 9:59 AM | PERMALINK

I quit using drugs a few decades ago. But I'm thinking that what I feared most; long term psychotic damage, has actually happened. Because I can't seem to comprehend what passes for reality on my tv or my internet tubes. Maybe a slap upside the head? Not mine you understand, but theirs.

Posted by: pokeybob on April 27, 2011 at 10:01 AM | PERMALINK

I WISH the president hadn't played along with this idiocy. I WISH he had allowed it to continue to fester, along with the dumbassed reporters' questions in the daily briefings. Because as others have noted, it won't make any difference - they'll just move on to the next crazy theory.

Or if he was going to release the "long form" certificate, I WISH they had really overdone things to hold the whole thing up to ridicule - such as presenting a fake birth video purportedly showing the president emerging from his mother's vagina, while a Don Ho lookalike played ukelele in the background.

This country is so over. More to the point, it DESERVES to be over, because obviously the American public is too fucking stupid to govern themselves.

Posted by: Jennifer on April 27, 2011 at 10:02 AM | PERMALINK

So given his accomplishment, shouldn't the Republicans go ahead and skip the nomination process, and anoint Trump their nominee in 2012 right now?

Posted by: John Dillinger on April 27, 2011 at 10:02 AM | PERMALINK

There's no mailing address. None at all.

Perhaps there's a simple explanation. Perhaps the mailing address was in (cue dramatic music)....the British crown colony called KENYA.!

Clear evidence of a conspiracy.

Posted by: danimal on April 27, 2011 at 10:02 AM | PERMALINK

Here's my prediction: see the stamp that says "I certify that this is a true copy or an abstract of the record on file"? They'll claim that it could just be an "abstract" and maybe it's not a "true copy". And I'm not even a pro!

Posted by: DonBoy on April 27, 2011 at 10:02 AM | PERMALINK

At long last, White House Press Corps, have you no decency? Was not a single man or woman in your midst willing to express the deserved deep contempt you should, you must, feel for any so-called " reporter", even from CNN, who would publicly make such a DUMBFUCKSTUPID inquiry?

Not a single one of these meatpuppets had the integrity to boo down such idiot questions?

The birthers are merely irritainment. The White House Press Corps is a real threat to democracy. And shame on the Obama administration for playing their game.

Posted by: martin on April 27, 2011 at 10:05 AM | PERMALINK

Nice work overall but next time through in some more misspellings and incorrect usages.

Now, now. Some Tea boys haven't learned how to turn off their spellcheck - you know, that elitist gimmick created to force socialist conformity.

Posted by: Danp on April 27, 2011 at 10:05 AM | PERMALINK

This won't put it to rest but no one can say they haven't tried to put it to rest. There is literally nothing that anyone can do do stop the Birthers from believing he is a citizen (though if he was a regular citizen they would have no problem). They will never believe he should be president because they feel that the presidency is the sole preserve of white men.

Now the press who, or at least those that consider itself legitimate and who don't believe in this shit, need to call people like Trump on this WHEN HE SAYS IT. They need to stop giving this shit airtime because it is giving legitimacy to something that doesn't deserve it.

Posted by: ET on April 27, 2011 at 10:06 AM | PERMALINK


Posted by: Steve P on April 27, 2011 at 10:06 AM | PERMALINK

Trump seems like he is trying to escape his tabloidal past then frolicks with conspiracy theorists flinging himself right back from whence he came.

Posted by: Kill Bill on April 27, 2011 at 10:08 AM | PERMALINK

Just an odd thought, but the timing of this issue with the budget battle and the debt ceiling - a paranoid part of me wonders if it was actually timed as a distraction. It's just that the involvement of Trump makes me think it was all about his ego and not any plan coordinated with the larger Republican Party.

This is what our politics has come to.

Posted by: Fang on April 27, 2011 at 10:10 AM | PERMALINK

While there certainly is a racial component to the "birther" nonsense, keep in mind that it is right from the republiCON playbook to make any democratic candidate or president seem illegitimate. They did it with Clinton, claiming his draft status amd pot smoking made him unfit for office, and ineligible to lead our military; they did with John Kerry by shamelessly besmirching his stellar military record, and by claiming his Fulbright Hearing testimony in 1971 made him unfit to tlead the military.

Yes, the birther nonsense itself is racist, but it would be a mistake to assume that the claims of a democratic president's illegitimacy would end when Obama leaves office.

Posted by: Stetson Kennedy on April 27, 2011 at 10:10 AM | PERMALINK

I commend BHO for doing this, albeit reluctantly.

Naturally the document will have to be rigorously scrutinized.

Posted by: Al on April 27, 2011 at 10:10 AM | PERMALINK

Way back when I learned about American Exceptionalism, it wasn't about how extraordinarily crazy we are. The times, they are a-changin'.

Posted by: Jon on April 27, 2011 at 10:12 AM | PERMALINK

I watched CNN yesterday [which I rarely do] and they came to the conclusion that the birth certificate was real.

Posted by: Kill Bill on April 27, 2011 at 10:13 AM | PERMALINK

The NBC coverage was just as vapid after the President's remarks as it was prior. That hack Gregory came on for about 30 seconds to call the split screen of Obama and Trump's press conferences "extraordinary". What was "extraordinary" about you hacks elevating that carnival barker?

This country is going down a dark, dark path.

Posted by: Holmes on April 27, 2011 at 10:13 AM | PERMALINK

And Faux News reports the White House releases "what they say is the president's birth certificate." Okay, you produced a certified, notarized docketed page purporting to be his birth certificate. What proof do you have that it is real? (Long moan.)

Posted by: candideinnc on April 27, 2011 at 10:16 AM | PERMALINK

Naturally the document will have to be rigorously scrutinized. -Al

I think you mean it will be rigorously spun..

Posted by: Kill Bill on April 27, 2011 at 10:19 AM | PERMALINK

His birthdate is listed as Aug 4, but the certificate is dated Aug 8. Just enough time for Nikita Khrushchev, Jomo Kenyatta and King Abdel-Azia al Saud to consult with one another and finalize their plan to fly the newborn baby from Kenya to Hawaii as the first step towards WORLD DOMINATION.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It would be irresponsible not to.

Also, there's something else missing from the birth certificate: God. No mention of God, His Son, or any of His other Offspring. Would it have been too difficult for his parents to put aside their militant atheism for a moment and acknowledge the founding Christian values of their adopted home? Not surprising in the least, given the milieu that Obama and the other lefties feel so comfortable in, which is so alien from mainstream Americans.

Oh, and the White House still hasn't produced evidence that he didn't spend his whole childhood in an Indonesian Maddrassa. All in all, we're left with more questions than answers here.

Posted by: Basilisc on April 27, 2011 at 10:22 AM | PERMALINK

@Basilisc - Perfect! lol (Loved it.)

Posted by: June on April 27, 2011 at 10:23 AM | PERMALINK

Obama has nobody to blame but himself for this nonsense going on so long. When someone accuses you of being unAmerican, you strike back and you strike back hard.

Why in God's name would anyone suggest for a second that an 18-year old American college student would leave the country in 1961 to deliver a baby, much less in Africa of all places? There is absolutely no reason, other than rank racism and xenophobia, for anyone to entertain -- for a second -- that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.

So, when your political opponents engage in a malicious, racist attack on your character you fucking destroy them. Imagine if every time Trump raised this issue he was asked by a reporter, "how do you respond to the claims by the President's supporters that it is racist to single out the President for heightened scrutiny of his claims to be a natural born citizen?" How long do you think Trump -- or any other non-fringe politician -- would want to stick his neck out?

Instead we get the WH calling these racist attacks "good politics and good TV". Way to push back, Carney!

Posted by: square1 on April 27, 2011 at 10:26 AM | PERMALINK

Quite simple, really. Obama wants to run against Trump and his record of one abysmal failure after another. Wouldn't you?

Posted by: rusty chainsaw on April 27, 2011 at 10:27 AM | PERMALINK

clearly a fake document

Posted by: T2 on April 27, 2011 at 10:29 AM | PERMALINK

Trump needs a red clown nose
Side Show BooB

Posted by: apeman on April 27, 2011 at 10:30 AM | PERMALINK

Before all of this, I really had no opinion of Donald Trump - now - I cannot imagine what sewer Trump crawled out of, and I wish he would crawl back there, it is where he belongs to all eternity.

Posted by: j on April 27, 2011 at 10:31 AM | PERMALINK

This gives Trump an opportunity to gracefully (or at least as gracefully as Trump is capable of) withdraw from the Presidential campaign--he can declare victory, claiming that he has accomplished something important, and go back to his regular life.

Let's see if he can gain sufficient control of his ego to take this step.

Posted by: DRF on April 27, 2011 at 10:31 AM | PERMALINK

Thanks June, but I think "And I have some research to do on the kerning" (zmulls @9:30) still gets the win.

Posted by: Basilisc on April 27, 2011 at 10:31 AM | PERMALINK

Donald stfu!!!!! You arrogant, egocentric, narcissistic ass-clown!!

Posted by: Pamela on April 27, 2011 at 10:36 AM | PERMALINK

Let me point out one (or 3) reason(s) Trump is such an conceited and dishonest asshole: he is a real estate developer, a casino operator AND has a 'reality' TV show: the perfect storm, a veritable trifecta, of Bull Shit, a one man epedemic of dishonesty.

Posted by: rob on April 27, 2011 at 10:47 AM | PERMALINK

Why won't Obama show us the blue dress?! Oh, wait, I'm getting the Democratic Presidents mixed up...

Posted by: josef on April 27, 2011 at 10:52 AM | PERMALINK

I'm confident White House officials do not expect the hysterical right to move on, we all know that's not going to happen. Perhaps they believe this will put elected officials, both national and statewide on the spot when asked directly about the issue. Boner can no longer say with any credibility that he "takes the President at his word" without a followup question. Boner, Cantor, Bachmann and many others have fanned this flame for over two years, if they continue to equivocate to appease their insane base, they should be called out by the press. Okay, okay, I know I could be dreaming here but so called legitimate journalists and governors like Jindal and the Oklahoma woman now have no reason to let this doubt slide in the case of journalists or sign birther bills in the case of the governors.

Since we now have something like 35% of Americans, not just Republicans saying they don't know for sure if Pres. Obama was born in Hawaii, I don't think he had much choice.

Posted by: Kathryn on April 27, 2011 at 10:53 AM | PERMALINK


Look at them white halo thingies around all the letters. It's so clear.

Posted by: Steve on April 27, 2011 at 10:53 AM | PERMALINK

Forgot to mention: Has Hinderaker checked the kerning on that birth certificate?

Posted by: josef on April 27, 2011 at 10:55 AM | PERMALINK

"morning gaggle"

Gaggle, indeed. Pity those poor White House janitors who must clean up that room after the honkers depart.

Posted by: berttheclock on April 27, 2011 at 11:00 AM | PERMALINK

Rob -

#4: He's a serial defaulter on his debt. See here: http://www.bestchicagocondos.com/blog/trump-sued-over-loan-default/.
Or here: http://bit.ly/ff1jgo

But paying back your debt is for the little people.

Posted by: Basilisc on April 27, 2011 at 11:09 AM | PERMALINK

The donald belongs more in the stupid MSM category rather than in politics. Whether he intends to or not, he's mocking both the MSM and the republican party. I wonder if the gop wouldn't rather he would disappear as much as the rest of us.

Posted by: Carol from CO on April 27, 2011 at 11:44 AM | PERMALINK

My mother had a pedicure this morning when the announcement was made. The Vietnamese immigrant who was doing her nails commented that the rest of the world must think we are stupid. I think her assessment was astute and on-point.

Posted by: KJ on April 27, 2011 at 12:54 PM | PERMALINK

I voted for Barack Obama in 2008, I don't regret it one bit and I plan to vote for him again in 2012.

Posted by: A. Darton on April 27, 2011 at 4:11 PM | PERMALINK

I know it sounds stupid, but has anyone done a follow-up question of that 50% of Republicans who think Obama was born in a foreign country asking if Hawaii is part of the US? I wouldn't be surprised...

Posted by: Captain Obvious on April 27, 2011 at 4:36 PM | PERMALINK
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