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Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign is pretty invested in going after Rick Perry over Social Security. The Texas governor has been scathing in his criticism of the landmark program — he thinks it’s an unconstitutional “Ponzi scheme” — and the former Massachusetts governor wants GOP voters to believe that’s a disqualifier in a general election.
The problem, as we discussed last week, is that there are competing audiences to consider. Perry is saying what rank-and-file conservatives want to hear, while Romney is telling them to think about what the American mainstream wants to hear. There’s not a lot of overlap.
It’s a tough pitch when so many Republicans agree with Perry, not Romney, on the substance. Consider the new Bloomberg National Poll.
The most publicized campaign issue focusing on Perry — his characterization of Social Security as a “Ponzi Scheme” — has Americans divided. Among all respondents, 46 percent said they agree with the remark, while 50 percent said they disagree.
Among Republicans, 65 percent agree with Perry’s statements about Social Security, while 33 percent disagree. Independents are nearly equally split.
It’s only one poll, of course, but if these numbers are accurate, it’s obviously a problem for Romney. Nearly two-thirds of self-identified Republicans agree with Perry about Social Security? That’s pretty one-sided.
At this week’s debate for GOP presidential candidates, Romney told Perry, “[T]he term ‘Ponzi scheme’ I think is over the top.” To the general public, that’s probably true.
But does Romney fully appreciate just how right-wing Republican voters really are?
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BetweenTheLines on September 15, 2011 9:35 AM:
But does Romney fully appreciate just how right-wing Republican voters really are?
Fill in the ________ Romney, fully appreciates the Republican primary voters and wishes them to know he is fully behind fill in the blank __________ policy proposal.
Furthermore, fill in the ________ Romney, fully appreciates the American general election voters and wishes them to know he is fully behind fill in the blank __________ policy proposal.
Brenna on September 15, 2011 9:35 AM:
I don't get this. There must be republicans out there who are middle class or below who need social security and medicare, or potentially will. The issue of them taking away these safety programs scare me to death. Yesterday, there was talk of Obama proposing he will cut into them, including raising the age for medicare. People on another left wing media site were freaked out.
The only thing I can figure is these republicans who were polled hate Obama so much that they're willing to sacrifice their own self-interest. I can certainly see my in-laws in this camp, even though they're in their 70s, recently bankrupt, and need their kid's monetary help to get them through each month.
Again, I don't get it.
Josef K on September 15, 2011 9:37 AM:
But does Romney fully appreciate just how right-wing Republican voters really are?
Probably, at least on an intellectual level. Doubtless he'll be as shocked as the rest of us when they become a slavering mob and start killing people in the streets.
Think it won't happen? Think back to the 1960s. These days, the crazed and the terrified have a lot more targets to take aim at (and much, much heavier firepower available).
bdop4 on September 15, 2011 9:37 AM:
"The most publicized campaign issue focusing on Perry — his characterization of Social Security as a “Ponzi Scheme” — has Americans divided. Among all respondents, 46 percent said they agree with the remark, while 50 percent said they disagree."
This makes me want to puke. The unapologetic ignorance of our fellow Murkans is pretty hard to take sometimes.
Anonymous on September 15, 2011 9:51 AM:
No. Romney does not. The way the base views a debate and the way the rest of us do is completely different. This is why unless the HPV thing messes him up, he will be the nominee. The GOP created a monster, but now the monster is in control. On the topic below, I would say that usually what happens is that the GOP does something outrageous, the Democratic base complains, there is no coordinated strategy by elected Dems to counter, and the media either ignores what the GOP does or they say "both sides". Then the GOP does the next outrageous thing and the process repeats itself. Meanwhile Democrats are discouraged while Republicans are enthusiastic. It is time to change that dynamic. The elected Democrats need to do something super liberal, or something that is right up to the line. I noticed that Republicans now call the Democratic member of congress the "Democrat Party" (because of polling initiated by Newt), without any pushback from the Democratic party. The media, of course ignored things (in fact they now use "Democrat party" themselves). This is a very small issue, however very emblematic of the problems Democrats create when they do not fight back. How many people on this thread would stand for someone repeatedly, purposely mispronouncing their name out of disrespect. Sometime people get the pronouciation of my name wrong; I immediately correct them. Why cant the Dems fight fire with fire. Why cant some Democratic members in congress in left leanings districts say the Repuke party publicly. Sure it would be stupid and petty, but that is where our politics are fought at this point. When the FOX shitstorm happens, and Democrats are hounded by the media, ask them why they did not complain when the Republicans started the whole Democrat thing for the last 15 years? Ask the media why they use the words Democrat party themselves. Tell them when the Republicans and media are able to call the Democrats by their proper name, then they will return the favor.
Live Free or Die on September 15, 2011 10:01 AM:
Anonymous=LFoD
@Brenna:
"The only thing I can figure is these republicans who were polled hate Obama so much that they're willing to sacrifice their own self-interest."
You win the prize. They vote against their own interest because of hate. Blacks, Gays, Muslims, Illegals-take your pick. There has to always be someone to hate in order to make them feel better about their failures. America was very good to white people for the longest time, giving them every advantage imaginable. Uneducated whites could get jobs highly educated blacks were restricted from getting. Latinos used to be relegated to domestic work or picking the fields. Gays used to be in the closet. Now we have black running the US, we have Latinos running multinationals, and Gays out of the closet running big companies and getting married. This threatens them. This threatened the dominance that they have become use too. Obama elected as President just sent them over the fucking edge. A Muslim Black man (in their view) with a Muslim name running America. How could their lives be any less meaningful.
The fact that 46% of ALL AMERICANS believe that Ponzi scheme line is a testament to the failures of Democratic messaging. By next year 75% will believe the Ponzi scheme statement.
NHCt on September 15, 2011 10:03 AM:
He's probably banking on the fact that if he can convince the GOP establishment that Perry is unelectable, then Fox, the National Review and all the other mouthpieces will start trumpeting the rightness of Mitt's argument, which in turn will result in the base doing a 180 on the issue. The question is once you've created the monster, can you tell it how to behave?
Josef K on September 15, 2011 10:04 AM:
From Brenna at 9:35am:
Again, I don't get it.
Its not that difficult. Politicians as early as Julius Caesar have recognized its easy to move a mob than individuals; just get them ginned up on a particular issue, give them a semi-comprehensible target, and let them loose.
In this case, Perry and ilk want to dismantle the underpinnings of the New Deal (said underpinnnings being an anathema to their corporate patrons and their own diseased worldview). The best way to ensure that happens 'legitimately' is to get the public behind their efforts and let that same public provide the energy and 'mandate'. By delegitimizing the program's very existence (hence calling it a ponzi scheme and/or claiming its unsustainable and/or saying it won't be there for the future), the gullible public will demand and support its dissolution; the objective facts behind the program, which can be a little on the technical side, get lost in the noise. By the time the public realizes what its been party to, the work is done and the target gone.
In short, Perry and company are just following a well-tried procedure of manipulation of the mass public towards specific ends that are not in said public's personal interests. The Administration is trying something similar with the AJA and getting the public behind that, but that's still a work in progress.
That's my take.
T2 on September 15, 2011 10:19 AM:
Look, the Republicans have been trying to scuttle SocSec for a long time. They want the money to go into Banks and Wall Street. That a majority of the GOP voters go along with this is not a surprise. Now, why they would go along, when almost every man and woman in America knows someone benefitting from SocSec (if not themselves). That's the mystery and that's why, although the rank and file GOP may think its some kind of scheme (since their "leaders" constantly tell them so), they would scream long and loud if the poll asks the question "Would you like to give up your personal Social Security?) -- you notice that question is never asked....
rikyrah on September 15, 2011 10:24 AM:
The only thing I can figure is these republicans who were polled hate Obama so much that they're willing to sacrifice their own self-interest. I can certainly see my in-laws in this camp, even though they're in their 70s, recently bankrupt, and need their kid's monetary help to get them through each month.
Brenna,
working-class and middle-class WHITE PEOPLE have been voting against their ECONOMIC INTERESTS in the name of WHITENESS for generations.
this doesn't shock me in the least.
My mother is from Mississippi. When Governor Foghorn Leghorn was first elected, he did what he said he was going to do - he cut social services and needed medical services.
Then, all of a sudden, you had these crowds of poor, working class, and middle-class White folks going ' what's going on'?
See, they thought it was the olden days, when White bureaucrats literally could, go through the rolls, and just take off the benefits from the 'NIGRAS'.
But, thankfully, when cuts come now, they're coming for all.
this is the same thing.
P-Dog on September 15, 2011 12:34 PM:
Am I the only one who is pretty amazed by the results of this poll? ONLY 50% don't think this SS a ponzi scheme vis-a-vi Perry? Shouldn't it be like 70%?
Forget Romney, this is a big problem for democrats in general when not even a majority of Americans can safely say SS is not a ponzi scheme.
Then again, this is just one poll.
Sister A on September 15, 2011 1:36 PM:
Is it possible (and I think it is) that a large number of adults don't actually know what a Ponzi scheme is? That, for them, "ponzi" just means a scheme that cheats somebody out of their money down the road, and that the term doesn't indicate the pyramid scheme that an actual Ponzi is?
I didn't really know what a Ponzi scheme was until about five years ago - or rather, I knew about the TYPE of scheme, but didn't know the term "ponzi" went with it.
With so many folks convinced of the "SS will be bankrupt by the time I need it!" myth, I suspect that "Ponzi scheme," to them, simply means that there's something wrong with the funding, and doesn't have much to do with the precise and deceptive cheating that a POnzi scheme really indicates.
Just a thought.