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A Koch-financed study of climate data, which many on the right agreed to accept no matter the outcome, just concluded that global warming is real and the scientific consensus is legit.
But it snowed yesterday in parts of the Northeast, so we once again have to deal with nonsense like this:
From Eric Bolling’s Twitter feed:
“Hey A Gore…earliest snow in NYC since the Civil War…where’s your global warming now, see?:
Last night on his Fox Business program, Bolling also pointed to the snowstorm to try to rebut climate change. On-screen text during the segment read, “Global Warming: A Scam?”
Ari Fleischer, recently hired by CNN to be one of the more respectable Republican voices, went there, too.
“This is freaky. The temp is dropping & the snown is sticking like crazy. Al Gore - get rewrite”
Does every freak snow storm have to bring out the worst in climate deniers? Is all of this really necessary?
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Live Free or Die on October 30, 2011 8:29 AM:
Do dogs shit? Do Republicans lie? Will the sun rise today?
R on October 30, 2011 8:32 AM:
Kites and birds and airplanes prove there's no such thing as gravity.
SteveT on October 30, 2011 8:37 AM:
It will keep happening until Democrats start pointing out that seventh graders are fought in Earth Science class the difference between 'climate' and 'weather', and asking "journalists" whether Republicans are as smart as seventh graders.
Sam Simple on October 30, 2011 8:39 AM:
My daughter learned the difference between climate and weather in 8th grade. Apparently these clowns didn't make it that far.
FRP on October 30, 2011 8:45 AM:
There once were the wise
That was a long time ago
Now it takes the wise
All they have
To manage with what once
Was enough for everyone
"Too bad for everyone" A wise new saying
Walldon on October 30, 2011 8:51 AM:
Actually, it's the increasing frequency of "freak" storms like this that is a symptom of global warming.
Stoned Wino on October 30, 2011 8:53 AM:
It's called climate change....and every time the morons open their mouths, they demonstrate how truly ignorant and stupid they really are...
Hedda Peraz on October 30, 2011 8:55 AM:
Moses said it best: "You will have to pry it from my COLD dead hands!"
Ronald Henry on October 30, 2011 9:02 AM:
Idiots!
On a side note:
Thank You Occupy America! Keep it up! Nobody thought it could happen but you are changing the discourse!
wvng on October 30, 2011 9:06 AM:
A few minutes ago, before reading Steve yet, I posted the followign on my Face Book page: "It seems fitting to note that, on a Sunday when much of the East is paralyzed by an extremely unusual October snowstorm, that the last two winters were notable for their unusual and prolonged sub-freezing weather and heavy snows extending into the deep South, and that this may be happening because the Arctic is unusually warm and ice free - resulting in a change in atmospheric circulation patterns. If this happens again this year, a two-year fluke will begin to look like a pattern. A look back at NOAA's Arctic Report card at the link.
I'm sure the yokels on Fox and AM radio will be saying "you call this global warming? Yuck yuck." "
http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/reportcard/atmosphere.html
DisgustedWithItAll on October 30, 2011 9:08 AM:
What stunts like this prove is their ignorance of the science. Then they pass their ignorance on to the congenitally stupid. And the people that know say nothing, or can't get heard. Depressing isn't a strong enough word.
MR Bill on October 30, 2011 9:09 AM:
One of the rules of Advertising/Mass Persuasion is "repetition, repetition, repetition".
And if it's untrue, you just have to repeat it louder, louder and at every opportunity. Any time the weather is mentioned, "and hey this disproves Global Warming" is the default position for the Deniers.
Goebbels would be proud.
c u n d gulag on October 30, 2011 9:09 AM:
This fits in with, "See, they're not REALLY poor! They have a microwave and aren't starving to death on the streets!"
Davis X. Machina on October 30, 2011 9:09 AM:
They'd rather rule in the ruins they run, rather than live in someone else's palace -- scaled up to the size of a planet.
It's the Weltanschauung of a not terribly-well-brought up three-year old.
Anon on October 30, 2011 9:21 AM:
We didn't call him "Ari the Liar" for nothing!
Do you suppose Eric and Ari, not knowing the difference between climate and weather, went to inferior private academies?
T-Rex on October 30, 2011 9:34 AM:
The other thing besides "repetition, repetition, repetition" is to change the subject from scientific phenomena to personal likes and dislikes. Al Gore hasn't said anything lately about climate change, but every cold snap turns into an excuse to ridicule him personally, and to try to hang all the blame for concerns about global warming on him.
I understand, however, why Republicans still can't stop running against Gore, since they know damn well that he won in 2000, and that their robbing him led the country to disaster. That's a heavy burden to bear unless you can rationalize it by blaming someone else.
Ron Byers on October 30, 2011 9:36 AM:
It has been a couple of months since we had a real rain here is on the plains. The folks in Texas suffered a real drought nearly all year. There have been dust storms. If you insist on using weather as proof of global warming both what has happened here and in Texas are predicted results of climate change. On the other hand, what happens day to day changes day to day. You have to look at long term trends.
beejeez on October 30, 2011 9:50 AM:
Look, I can jump in the air! Where's your "Theory of Gravity" now, you science saps?
DAY on October 30, 2011 9:58 AM:
An interesting TV show about desertification, esp the Sahara, posits that a tilt of the earth's axial rotation every few hundred thousand years, causes monsoon rains to shift southward. And then wander back north. "Science" of various disciplines proves this, everything from space based radar to ocean sediment cores to archaeological digs. Enormous lakes covered much of Libya, and the ensuing drought pushed the occupants into the Nile Valley and the founding of the Egyptian Dynasties.
We are about to add the seventh billion human to the planet, and the food and water will run out long before we need to settle the argument over human cased climate change. Nevertheless, the Right will continue to make money out of the discussion.
Like Hedda Peraz, Eric and Ari are merely poking sticks thru the cage bars of Gore, et al.
millsapian87 on October 30, 2011 9:58 AM:
Because these jackasses have the maturity of ten-year-old schoolyard bullies and spent their educational years lighting farts in the back of the classroom, it's really the best they can do.
wvng on October 30, 2011 9:59 AM:
"You have to look at long term trends." Absolutely true, but trends take a long time to develop, and trend analysis is not a good tool for looking for tipping points as they happen. It is entirely possible that we have reached a tipping point in a warming climate's influence on weather that the science will confirm in 10-15 years.
In the meantime, this is the correct approach to understanding our world. Climatologist Kevin Trenberth: "I find it systematically tends to get underplayed and it often gets underplayed by my fellow scientists. Because one of the opening statements, which I’m sure you’ve probably heard is “Well you can’t attribute a single event to climate change.” But there is a systematic influence on all of these weather events now-a-days because of the fact that there is this extra water vapor lurking around in the atmosphere than there used to be say 30 years ago. It’s about a 4% extra amount, it invigorates the storms, it provides plenty of moisture for these storms and it’s unfortunate that the public is not associating these with the fact that this is one manifestation of climate change. And the prospects are that these kinds of things will only get bigger and worse in the future."
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/10/29/356624/rain-warming-waters-disasters-history/
Dan B on October 30, 2011 10:23 AM:
"tipping point"
Oh good grief. After big volcanic eruptions the world gets cooler. If we seriously wanted to cool down the world, we could make one of the volcanoes blow up every few years (one nuke would do it).
Or if you're anti-nuke, we could build a few hundred boats to spray water into the air. The point is climate engineering is possible, MUCH cheaper than restructuring the entire economy, and much more politically possible than restructuring the entire economy. No one is going to be able to explain to China why it's peasants need to live and die in poverty because of global warming.
Treat global warming as an engineering challenge and there are solutions. Treat it as a political problem requiring country "A" to live in poverty and it isn't.
Ten Bears on October 30, 2011 10:31 AM:
It's really rather simple: contributions of the ever diminishing polar icecap and the massive melt-off of the Greenland glaciers are dumping super cold super heavy water into the North Atlantic, collapsing the North Atlantic Conveyor. The North Atlantic Conveyor is the current of warm surface water and air that travels up (North) along the eastern coast of of "America", across the Atlantic above Iceland and then down the western coasts of Europe, a current of warm surface water and air that has kept the North "American" eastern seaboard and Northern Europe habitable these past twelve thousand years. Before that, not so much... soon, not so much.
We have seen this in the geological record, we can read it both in ice cores and sea bed cores. When the ice damns broke at what is now Hudson's Bay and carved out the St. Lawrence Seaway, it collapsed the conveyor, and what we see now is virtually identical. It has happened before, and it is happening again, and both events are/were the direct result of atmospheric warming.
Speed on October 30, 2011 10:36 AM:
And what is the constant obsession with Al Gore, anyway? The guy hasn't been in office for 12 years, nobody really listens to him anymore. I guess they think Gore invented global warming or something.
golack on October 30, 2011 11:01 AM:
Yep, and the drought/wild fires in Texas are just a fluke...
Lowering our dependence on fossil fuels is essential for all 7 billion on this world. IF you've seen the energy (oil) company commercials about the shale gas or oil sands, they highlight a number of problems. For the gas, the claims of reserves for 100 years....think about that--it will run out in your grandkids lifetime, but the ad is promoting exploiting it all now (at the expense of alternative energy sources and our world).
thebewilderness on October 30, 2011 11:48 AM:
Propagandists, when they have worn out every specious argument available, rely on mockery to distract their listeners from the obvious reality that is staring them in the face.
"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time."
Lincoln was talking about "popular soverignty" at the time.
The echoes of history are really loud right now.
aiko on October 30, 2011 12:15 PM:
actually global cooling is caused by global warming.
it's caused by fast melting arctic ice, bringing down the cold climate down to northern hemisphere. it cause extreme weather pattern: snow storms, floods, droughts in places where there was none before at the same time
this will cause people to die. more serious than people are thinking right now.
charles on October 30, 2011 12:56 PM:
Dan B.,
Aren't the anti-anti-pollution folks the ones who object to regulations? I can just imagine them agreeing to a precisely-controlled amount of pollution. And -- it would have to be done through the UN, wouldn't it? Because it would have to be done over a large area, far too large to be under the control of one country.
Let's hear it for a global weather-control conspiracy!
Texas Aggie on October 30, 2011 1:16 PM:
Global warming has to do with temperature. That it snows just means that it is below 32˚F in the upper atmosphere. If it is below 32˚ but there isn't any moisture, it won't snow. Growing up in PA, I remember lots of cold days in October, i.e. frost, but it didn't snow because the moisture just wasn't there.
This isn't something that people should have a problem with. Global warming is temperature, not precipitation which is only secondarily related to temperature.
joeyess on October 30, 2011 1:23 PM:
the next time I have to explain the difference between climate and weather to a wingnut shoveling his driveway I'm going to punch him in the neck.
Dan B on October 30, 2011 1:27 PM:
"Aren't the anti-anti-pollution folks the ones who object to regulations?"
Regulations shutting down economic development and power usage? The people generally opposed to that would be first and foremost the power companies, but after them you have the general public.
There's a reason why politicians only promise that future politicians will deal with this issue. The general public would never stand for any serious effort to massively increase power costs and/or shut down the economy.
But if you mean opposing actual solutions, then you're talking the green movement itself. Nuclear and Hydro power are the only proven energy technologies which are GW safe, but the greens would never stand for them. Similarly the greens are against any large scale ecological weather manipulation (imagine the uproar at someone suggesting nuking a volcano), and they're also against actual implementation of power projects (gas used to be gw-friendly, windmills kill birds, etc).
Or in short, the greens are against economic development, and the general public will NEVER buy into that.
kth on October 30, 2011 1:55 PM:
Bolling's quote seems to allude to Edward G. Robinson's Pharaoh in the Cecil B. DeMille film The Ten Commandments: where's your Messiah now? (The 'see' part comes from a fairly famous Billy Crystal impersonation which melds Robinson's Pharaoh with his numerous gangster roles.
IIRC, in the movie (and the bestseller it's based on), God kills all of Egypt's first-born sons right after Pharaoh's taunt. Thus at least some of the irony in Bolling's tweet is unintended.
TCinLA on October 30, 2011 2:10 PM:
Does every freak snow storm have to bring out the worst in climate deniers? Is all of this really necessary?>/i>
Do morons always act like morons?
SecularAnimist on October 30, 2011 2:11 PM:
Steve Benen wrote: "Is all of this really necessary?"
Yes, the denialist, obstructionist, obfuscationist, deceive-and-delay bullshit that Fox News -- and commenters like Dan B -- are spouting is absolutely "necessary" to perpetuating the fossil fuel corporations' ONE BILLION DOLLARS PER DAY profits.
Clueless on October 30, 2011 2:52 PM:
What's really stupid, Ari Fleischer, is not having a mindset for improving resource efficiencies and development on all fronts whether or not you believe in climate change or opportunities for balanced prosperity. A few nickles out of your bosses pockets might be psychologically damaging but I bet they can handle it.
Texas Aggie on October 30, 2011 3:35 PM:
Dan B exhibits the inability of the right wing to hold more than one concept in mind at the same time. It shouldn't be difficult to understand that CO2 has more than just one effect, the greenhouse effect. Already the oceans are more acidic because they've been absorbing CO2 than in recorded history with expected effects on coral, shell fish and other critters that need to form calcareous shells. The greenhouse effect isn't the only thing going, which means that his ideas for reducing temperature are useless.
As for his most recent comment, nuclear is most assuredly NOT a proven GW safe technology, or maybe he's forgotten (or never knew about) Japan, TMI, Chernobyl, and other less severe problems with nuclear energy. I suspect that never-knew-about is the correct choice because he also doesn't seem to be aware of the success that solar panels (Germany for God sakes!) and wind mills (Sweden) have been having in the rest of the world in producing electricity. His focus solely on his portfolio is likely the reason for his opinions.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. -Upton Sinclair
mere mortal on October 30, 2011 3:55 PM:
"Al Gore hasn't said anything lately about climate change, but every cold snap turns into an excuse to ridicule him personally"
It's worse than that. This was a freak snowstorm, not even a freak cold snap. If you look at weather sites like Weather Underground, the low temperatures are right around normal for this time of year, and way higher than the record lows.
Not that a record low temperature or a cold snap would disprove global warming, but just saying that the deniers are being extra stupid / dishonest here.
TCinLA on October 30, 2011 4:19 PM:
DanB:
So tell me, my little genius technology boy that you are, what do you do with the nuclear garbage? You know, the stuff with a half life three times longer than all of recorded human history??? Even an ignoramus like you can take a Cliff's Notes view of that history and be pretty sure that if there is some way for humans to fuck up the system, to get into whatever storage place you put it (never mind you're working on the geologic time scale for safety, which we can't figure out or predict at all) and "open Pandora's Box" to the detriment of everything. Of course, you'll be long dead, so it won't be anything you personally have to worry about.
Not to mention that using nuclear energy requires a completely zero-tolerance 100% accurate operation, since the slightest fuckup results in poisoning an entire state for several generations? And we all know what fuckups humans are (you likely being a prime example).
But thanks again for proving that computers are so user-friendly nowadays that bipeds lacking frontal lobes and opposable thumbs (like you) can use them.
KK on October 30, 2011 4:28 PM:
As the Wino said above, it's called Climate Change. The Global warming branding is silly, call it Climate Change and people understand. I point this out to my Northeastern deniers and ask "has our climate changed?'. With zero ambiguity everyone says yes "it rains like the Caribbean here these days, never saw rain like this before". Bingo! That's when they realize, hey something is going on. So I'd strongly advise, drop Global Warming and use Climate Change.
Dan B on October 30, 2011 5:47 PM:
"So tell me, my little genius technology boy that you are, what do you do with the nuclear garbage?"
Easy. Take it, dehydrate it, turn it into a ceramic (embedding every radioactive molecule), then encase that in lead, encase that in iron and drop it below the earth's crust. I learned that in class 20+ years ago.
"Not to mention that using nuclear energy requires a completely zero-tolerance 100% accurate operation"
If we'd retire the old, crappy models designed in the 50's and put in new technology then we wouldn't have this issue. The newer designs shut down on their own if something goes wrong as opposed to taking off on their own if something does.
People like you insist that we not build anything new, and that we wait for wind/solar/magic... but while we're waiting we still need the lights on so in effect you're insisting the old nuke plants stay open.
"...the success that solar panels (Germany for God sakes!) and wind mills (Sweden) have been having in the rest of the world in producing electricity."
Is anyone building these things without massive subsidies? Are Fortune 500 companies lining up to spend their own money on this, as opposed to the governments? No? "Success" is absurd, actually even "Unproven" is generous, a better word might be "failed". The wind/solar industry will die the moment the government turns off the money.
And both of you prove my point. While we're waiting for solar/wind/magic YOU'RE INSISTING WE BUILD COAL PLANTS. So guess what, if GW isn't the number one issue for you, don't expect it to be for anyone else.
Anonymous on October 30, 2011 6:27 PM:
If Bolling and Fleischer are going to use early one-day snow in the Northeast as evidence against global warming, why are they apparently unwilling to consider record numbers of consecutive 100 degree days in Texas as evidence confirming global warming?
Of course, using either event is ridiculous. Weather has blips in both directions. The difference is that those who understand the science have been using real long-term data gathered across the globe to come to their conclusions that climate change is real, while the deniers seem to play up the blips--and only the blips that confirm their predetermined point of view.
dsimon on October 30, 2011 6:28 PM:
If Bolling and Fleischer are going to use early one-day snow in the Northeast as evidence against global warming, why are they apparently unwilling to consider record numbers of consecutive 100 degree days in Texas as evidence confirming global warming? No bias there....
Of course, using either event is ridiculous. Weather has blips in both directions. The difference is that those who understand the science have been using real long-term data gathered across the globe to come to their conclusions that climate change is real, while the deniers seem to play up the blips--and then only the blips that confirm their predetermined point of view.
Christiaan on October 30, 2011 6:39 PM:
And how often does it have to be repeated that this extreme weather is in fact more evidence *in favor* of climate change? So let me repeat again, it's not about the local whether getting warmer (only the average temperature on earth is getting higher), but rather the weather getting more extreme. So both *warmer* and *colder*.
But of course it is well known fact that climate change deniers don't care about facts.
Skip on October 30, 2011 7:03 PM:
I too learned something in class, Dan B, that nothing is easy. We are top heavy with proposed theories and hypotheticals, but continue to come up empty on viable nuclear waste solutions once the feasibility studies are concluded and the actual data is considered.
And regarding theories, Richard Muller, conducting a study partially funded by the Koch brothers, has now recanted his denier status on climate change, after looking at a wide spectrum of historical data.
I give the man a point for having the courage to face facts and another point for not burying his conclusions out of respect for said brothers. 2 for Al.
Alexander Ryking on October 30, 2011 8:35 PM:
"Does every freak snow storm have to bring out the worst in climate deniers? Is all of this really necessary?"
It's all that right-wingers have, Steve. They mock because they can't debunk.
JGabriel on October 30, 2011 10:18 PM:
Steve Benen: "Does every freak snow storm have to bring out the worst in climate deniers?"
*Breathing* brings out the worst in climate deniers. They don't really have non-worst mode.
.
Dan B on October 31, 2011 5:32 AM:
"Skip: I too learned something in class, Dan B, that nothing is easy. We are top heavy with proposed theories and hypotheticals, but continue to come up empty on viable nuclear waste solutions once the feasibility studies are concluded and the actual data is considered."
This is a wonderful statement from a GW supporter. “Viable solutions”?
You and I disagree about nuclear, but let’s assume you’re right. Do you have any alternative solutions for GW which don’t involve impoverishing parts of the world, going to war with China when they refuse to take part, and/or having the government take over the economy? Btw if you answer “wind and solar” I’ll say “great, come back when they actually work cheap enough to matter”.
The failure of Kyoto wasn’t just that the politicians patted you on the head and made promises they knew future politicians would ignore. The failure of Kyoto was that if it’d worked like it’s supporters said it would, it would have (at a huge cost) delayed GW by 6 years over the course of a century. Meaning the GW we’d have in 100 years we’d instead have in 106.
Until you come up with a solution that doesn't involve people dying in poverty, all you're going to get from the political establishment is promises to do something in the future.
Tom on October 31, 2011 8:31 AM:
I stopped calling it snow a year or two ago. I now call it Global Climate Change Denial Confetti.
Texas Aggie on October 31, 2011 12:04 PM:
I’ll say “great, come back when they actually work cheap enough to matter”.
We're back. Right now solar is cheap enough that soon Germany will make more than it can use. Denmark is more dependent on wind energy than any other single source for electricity generation.
None of the solutions will entail people "dying in poverty." On the contrary, they will provide a lot of jobs that right now don't exist. I realize that your position is based on faith rather than facts, but you really need to look at the whole picture, and maybe redistribute your portfolio.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends upon his not understanding it. -Upton Sinclair,
Dan B on November 01, 2011 4:39 AM:
"We're back."
Meaning Solar is finally able to do without government mandates? Government money? Fortune 500s are finally willing to spend their own money and not just our tax money? Well great, we’ll just let the market work and cheap solar will replace everything.
But of course you don’t mean that. The government can’t make things inexpensive by throwing money at it. Solar “growth” is better phrased as “the massive solar boondoggle”. I’d love to be wrong, but as far as I can tell solar remains massively more expensive and that’s another way to say “inefficient”.
"None of the solutions will entail people "dying in poverty." On the contrary, they will provide a lot of jobs that right now don't exist."
Green jobs. What was it that Spain found out? Oh yeah, every green job created cost two normal jobs because they're expensive and inefficient. Denmark's electricity rates are the highest in the EU, they're paying $124 per carbon ton saved. Or in short, they're poorer for wind and it's cost jobs.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. "
Which is why asking the solar industry if they're cheap and efficient doesn't really tell us much. Here's a clue, as long as solar needs to reach into my pocket and spend my taxes in order to remain "competitive", they're not.
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