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As a matter of policy and politics, John Bolton isn’t making any sense. (thanks to reader V.S. for the tip)
Speaking before a crowd of veterans in Hilton Head, SC at a campaign event for Mitt Romney, former United Nations ambassador John Bolton dismissed the notion that President Barack Obama deserves any credit for the killing of Osama bin Laden:
“The irony is [Obama] is campaigning on the basis that he is a success as a foreign policy president. This is amazing. Navy Seal Team Six killed Osama bin Laden. That is his definition of success. In 1969, when Americans landed on the moon, it is like Richard Nixon taking credit for that. It happened to occur during his presidency.”
For anyone with even the slightest understanding of the relevant events, this is gibberish. President Obama, in his role as Commander in Chief, took an enormous risk and ordered the strike. The responsibility for weighing the evidence and the dangers was his alone, and it was up to the president to make the call. Bolton would have us believe Obama was merely a bystander to events, which is plainly untrue. Indeed, if the mission had gone poorly, it’s the president who would have received the blame.
But it didn’t go poorly; it was a national security triumph for the administration and the president who gave the order.
OK, so Bolton was simply wrong on the policy. But what about the politics? This is nearly as dumb a mistake.
Of all the issues Republican campaigns want to talk about, the U.S. mission that killed bin Laden should be near the bottom. It’s really not complicated: there’s no GOP upside for reminding Americans about one of President Obama’s most notable successes.
Indeed, Bolton was speaking as a prominent Mitt Romney supporter, which makes this even worse — Romney wouldn’t have ordered the same strike that killed the al Qaeda leader. We know this because he’s said so.
During Romney’s first presidential campaign, he took an entirely passive attitude towards the al Qaeda leader, saying “it’s not worth moving heaven and earth” to get the terrorist responsible for 9/11. Around the same time, Romney said he would not order a strike into Pakistan to get bin Laden, rejecting Obama’s willingness “to enter an ally of ours” to target the terrorist leader.
For Romney and his surrogates to even pick this fight, only offers Dems to promote videos like this one, showing just how “courageous” and “gutsy” Obama’s decision really was.
Maybe Dems will get lucky, and the Romney camp will keep John Bolton up front and center for the rest of the campaign?
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c u n d gulag on January 14, 2012 10:10 AM:
"Romney wouldn’t have ordered the same strike that killed the al Qaeda leader. We know this because he’s said so."
And your point here is, what, Steve? :-)
stormskies on January 14, 2012 10:11 AM:
And, as we all know here, it was Bush who actually stopped looking for Bin Laden. Obama made it a priority to look for him again. And it is because of making it a priority again that it then lead to finding him. The rest speaks for itself. And, gee, let's remember too that Gingrich stated he wants to make this Bolten, the piece of pig shit that he is, his Secretary of State. Oh my ......
Kiweagle on January 14, 2012 10:11 AM:
For me the most frightening thing that most Republicans have either forgotten or conveniently ignored is Bush's decision to disband the team that was searching for Bin Laden. Furthermore, he'd stated on camera at a press conference (making it an officially prepared statement) that he simply was not concerned with or about OBL.
BUT, according to guys like Bolton, Bush is the one who really deserves the credit.
dj spellchecka on January 14, 2012 10:14 AM:
i'd note the moon walking astronauts left a plaque on the moon with president nixon's signature on it...oddly, kennedy didn't get credit on it for starting the program
Kiweagle on January 14, 2012 10:15 AM:
@stormskies: Props.
c u n d gulag on January 14, 2012 10:20 AM:
And you've got to love yet another Vietnam War supporting, National Guard joining, chickenhawk.
Here was his rational for not wanting to go to combat (from his Wikipedia entry):
'that he decided to avoid service in Vietnam because "by the time I was about to graduate in 1970, it was clear to me that opponents of the Vietnam War had made it certain we could not prevail, and that I had no great interest in going there to have Teddy Kennedy give it back to the people I might die to take it away from.'"
John - Teddy Kennedy!
Really?
Teddy Kennedy?
Who knew a single Senator from Massachusetts wielded that much power?
Shame he didn't use it sooner...
What an ASS!
But you've got to admit, this asses rational for choosing to save his own ass by not risking his ass in combat, is better than that pompous radio asses ass-cyst!
Danp on January 14, 2012 10:23 AM:
I'm sure Bolton and Bush told us many times, but I just don't remember the name of the guy or unit that got Saddam Hussein or al Zarkawi. And what was the name of the boat, whose crew Bush was crediting with his "Mission Accomplished" banner? Will it take 30 years for history to remind us?
stormskies on January 14, 2012 10:28 AM:
gulag ......... pieces of pig shit like Bolten, Cheney, Romney who are chickenhawks creating their excuses for not going to Vietnam would in fact have been killed there .. but not at the hands of those that we were fighting ...
TR on January 14, 2012 10:31 AM:
Indeed, if the mission had gone poorly, it’s the president who would have received the blame.
Oh, no. I'm sure if the Navy SEALs had failed in their mission, John Bolton would have stood up and denounced them for their incompetence and in no way blamed Obama.
newtons.third on January 14, 2012 10:35 AM:
So by Bolton's reasoning, Desert One was all the fault of Delta Force, and he said so at the time. Right?
Crickets
Sure there are occasions where the President gets the credit because he is in office, cough-Berlin Wall-cough. But if the order came from the President to find him and get him? Well it was not Seal Team Six that killed Bin Laden, it was the bullets from the weapons. Those are the true heroes of the raid. The bullets.
jcricket on January 14, 2012 10:39 AM:
As I recall, Obama was very much involved in the decision to go into Pakistan - to the point of also demanding an exit strategy in case things did not go well.
I don't recall Nixon involved in participating in any back-up plans in case the moon landing did not go well, do you?
Dan on January 14, 2012 10:42 AM:
"During Romney's first presidential campaign, he took an entirely passive attitude towards the al Qaeda leader, saying 'it's not worth moving heaven and earth' to get the terrorist responsible for 9/11."
Yes, Bolton's a moron. It bears mentioning, though, that Romney was essentially right in this case, and that "getting" bin Laden, who was basically irrelevant (and also unarmed) at the time of his death, was essentially an act of vengeance, not justice. It's nice that the lizard brain is saying "Vote Democrat" for once. But don't let's stand on the high ground over it.
jim filyaw on January 14, 2012 10:45 AM:
my question about this is what kind of veteran would want to hear anything this con artist has to say about anything? i rather suspect it would be the dan quayle/george w. bush type (you know, the "vietnam era" national guard types), or the swift boater types, otherwise honorable men who've let their hatreds, prejudices, and general cantankerousness blind them to simple reality. either way, its a sad spectacle.
SW on January 14, 2012 10:47 AM:
OK you fucking walrus, I am going to say this one time slowly and ignore your ignorant ass. Dick Nixon was a bystander to the moon landing. All the work was done when he came into office in January and all he did was answer the phone in July.
Barack Obama had to change Bush's failed counter terrorism policy in order to kill Bin Laden.
In one case the previous policy that was already in place without a single change created the result.
In the second case, the only way a positive result was obtained was by throwing out the rulebook created by the previous administration.
This is not a point of contention. It was a fucking campaign issue. There is god damn video tape. What kind of fucking rubes do you take us for?
kevo on January 14, 2012 10:54 AM:
To All Responsible Parties:
Putting a microphone in front of John Bolton's piehole is a tremendous and mendacious act against our great and beloved nation! -Kevo
Countme-In on January 14, 2012 10:55 AM:
When the President dispatches U.S. Navy Seals to kill Republican filth like John Bolton and company, I'll be able to sleep at night knowing that our national security tax dollars are finally being spent to protect our great country from its most dangerous enemies.
Maritza on January 14, 2012 10:57 AM:
If I were the Obama campaign I would pick a fight with Romney now on this and ask him if he agrees with what Bolton has said about the killing of Bin Laden.
I would make a BIG DEAL out of this because the media would pick up on this and thus the American public will be reminded that Obama killed Osama.
RepublicanPointOfView on January 14, 2012 11:02 AM:
Nonsense!
If the president deserves the credit for the success or failure of a military operation, why did Jimmy Carter not receive condemnation for the failure of the Iranian hostage rescue failure?
schtick on January 14, 2012 11:02 AM:
One could hope that the people would be reminded of someone that hated the UN and denounced it was appointed as the US ambassador to the UN. doh!
One could hope that the people would be reminded of a president that "wasn't concerned about Bin Laden". doh!
Too bad the voters don't have a media to remind them because they have such short memories.
Gulag, you see the pimple on Rush's ass everytime you see a picture of him.
DAY on January 14, 2012 11:02 AM:
With friends like Bolton, who needs enemies?
Romney is slowly expiring from the death of a thousand (self inflicted) cuts.
Patrick Star on January 14, 2012 11:15 AM:
You can be damn sure that if Romney wins the presidency (God, what a horrible thought!) Bolton (who, by the way, is a classic bully and jackass) would be Mitten's Secretary of State, the face of America around the world. And, while we're on the subject of recess appointments, wasn't Bolton appointed by Bush during a congressional recess? As a U.N. ambassador, no less! It was Bush/Cheney's f#ck you! to the U.N.
dalloway on January 14, 2012 11:18 AM:
"John Bolton picks the wrong fight." Well, doesn't he always? The larger question to me has always been why did Bolton and the Bushies back off the hunt for bin Laden? Could it have been that capturing or killing him would have made their oh-so-profitable War on Terror a harder sell to the taxpayers who had to finance it?
rbe1 on January 14, 2012 11:21 AM:
Bolton is, always has been, and always will be, an ass.
Pal2008 on January 14, 2012 11:32 AM:
The problem is team Obama won't exploit this hypocrisy. I appreciate their efforts at being positive, responsible adults but Obama needs long coat tails for the 2012 election or we are all screwed for another 4 years obstruction. The responsible thing to do is to win and clobber the republicans mercilessly.
Bernard HP Gilroy on January 14, 2012 11:47 AM:
>> As a matter of policy and politics, John Bolton isn’t making any sense.
Or, in words, John Bolton was speaking again.
Rip on January 14, 2012 11:54 AM:
If Nixon had landed a man on the moon after Johnson had not only said he didn't care whether or not we ever did, but also broke up the team responsible for the Apollo program, there might be some validity to Bolton's comparison.
As usual, Bolton uses that bushy mustache of his to hide that he is in fact, talking out his ass.
Patango on January 14, 2012 12:07 PM:
Dan on January 14, 2012 10:42 AM:
""Yes, Bolton's a moron. It bears mentioning, though, that Romney was essentially right in this case, and that "getting" bin Laden, who was basically irrelevant (and also unarmed) at the time of his death, was essentially an act of vengeance, not justice.""
Yes , the unjustified killing of OBL , who killed over 2000 unarmed americans , and wanted to kill even more ...This is what gives liberals a bad name , rolling over and being spineless in the face of murderers , and the gop , I guess they should have just slapped the cuffs on all those guys shooting at them , then we could have a 5 year trial and hanging to enflame jihadist for the next 50 years ...All so we can conform to your kinds tea totting definition of JUSTICE ...No thanks ...
Matt on January 14, 2012 12:23 PM:
Hey, I'm perfectly willing to give Nixon credit for not deliberately preventing the moon landing, which he could easily have done.
For instance, imagine it's 1968, and Nixon is asked about the moon landing in a debate. If he'd said, "Well, of course we want to go to the moon, but I refuse to violate the territorial integrity of our allies, the Moon-Men," and then stuck to that policy as President, we'd never have gotten to the moon.
Fortunately, Nixon didn't declare in advance his intention to pursue an incredibly stupid and self-defeating policy that would obviously prevent us from accomplishing our decade-long goal of going to the moon.
Big Red on January 14, 2012 12:32 PM:
Using Bolton’s logic, Lincoln did not win the Civil War.
bigtuna on January 14, 2012 12:47 PM:
Ok dickhead. According to several accounts [I think there was a good one in the New Yorker], there were some backup helicopters staged some distance away, THERE BECAUSE OBAMA WANTED SOME BACKUP, WHICH IN FACT WERE NEEDED. THEY WERE NEEDED BC THE WALLS OF THE COMPOUND AFFECTED THE AERODYNAMICS OF THE HELOS, AND ONCE ONE CRATERED, they called in backups, which were there bc Obama wanted them.
I do not give a toot about most of this, but this exposes bolton to be another lying crazed republican sack of protoplasm. Apologies to protoplasm.
MNRD on January 14, 2012 1:27 PM:
What these neo-conservative heels like Bolton don't realize is that they are further and further discrediting their cause every time they open up their mouths. To sustain the kind of long-term costly war-making that they favor would require building a long-term consensus. Making themselves utterly loathed by millions of citizens who supported the initial decision to go into Afghanistan is hardly the way to build a long-term consensus for a highly aggressive war-making policy. It's reached the point where I'm rooting for Ron Paul in these Republican Primaries in order see these heels get the smackdown that they deserve.
jjm on January 14, 2012 1:32 PM:
The contemporary GOP's principle is: ALL OF REALITY MUST BE DISTORTED TO FIT NARRATIVES FRAMED UP TO PUT THE GOP IN A GOOD LIGHT.
No matter how small the subject, every tiny bit has to be run through the Big Lie machine to make it conform to the story "everything GOP=good, everything Democrats do=bad."
It is a form of insanity. The quasi-psychotic delusion that you can impose your will over the whole world, including its environment, simply by making stuff up eventually will meet up with a reality it cannot spin away.
The recent acceleration in the use of this principle, the GOP's hewing to it as their one and only method of 'winning', is alarming in mental health terms: they are no longing coldly and cynically manipulating reality, they've actually lost their grip on it altogether.
Otherwise they would realize not only how quickly their nonsense can be debunked, they seem completely unaware that there are thousands of people eager to do the debunking.
booch221 on January 14, 2012 1:41 PM:
If the mission to kill bin Laden had failed, Obama would have been blamed.
Because it succeeded, Obama had nothing to do with it.
TCinLA on January 14, 2012 1:59 PM:
Stormskies nailed it: And, as we all know here, it was Bush who actually stopped looking for Bin Laden. Obama made it a priority to look for him again. And it is because of making it a priority again that it then lead to finding him. The rest speaks for itself.
As to his audience, veterans in South Carolina, I doubt the majority of them had the brains to figure out the lie. In my experience of being in the service, the dumbest morons I met back then were whites from South Carolina, followed closely by whites from Alabama and whites from Mississippi. If it wasn't for southerners in the military, the Pentagon would be hard up for cannon fodder.
sick -n-effin-tired on January 14, 2012 4:26 PM:
Bolton is such an absolute dickwad , I hope Mittens keeps him around. He is bound to put his foot and up to the shinbone in his mouth at some juncture
Dan on January 14, 2012 5:15 PM:
Patango,be more specific: what is my "kinds tea totting definition of JUSTICE"? Because in America, justice is based on the presumption of innocence. As to my being a coward… well, it may be so. I've certainly acted cowardly in my life. But I consider myself clear-headed enough to recognize that a lunatic watching porn and taking bong hits in a sealed-off compound isn't really any kind of threat to America. His intent to "kill even more" Americans had become complete fantasy. Wait, you didn't actually believe that idiocy, did you?
Doug on January 14, 2012 5:34 PM:
Dan and Patango, if I remember correctly, Seal Team Six was instructed to capture or kill Bin Laden, NOT "shoot on sight", a big difference.
Had he been captured, I have no doubt there WOULD have been a trial, but I don't think it would have lasted five months, let alone five years. Especially as I can't see Bin Laden pleading anything BUT guilty considering the pride he took in his actions.
While Bin Laden himself MAY have been a spent force, the type of fanatic he represented isn't. There was nothing preventing him from becoming a "front" for another, even more radical and dangerous, fanatic. The "Arab Spring" may have made such a successor much more problematic, with or without his presence, but I have little doubt Osama Bin Laden was still capable of causing great misery.
freeholdmom on January 14, 2012 6:38 PM:
When it comes to the GOP, certainly at the federal level, nothing is dealt with; everything is spun. They've been doing it for so long that it's automatic. They can't stop! And why should they, when they're so often rewarded for this behavior by the voters & media.
Patango on January 15, 2012 12:47 AM:
Dan on January 14, 2012 5:15 PM:
""Patango,be more specific: what is my "kinds tea totting definition of JUSTICE"? Because in America, justice is based on the presumption of innocence.""
OBL was not in america , or an american citizen , he declared war on america and america responded appropriately , so justice was served ..
""As to my being a coward… well, it may be so. I've certainly acted cowardly in my life. But I consider myself clear-headed enough to recognize that a lunatic watching porn and taking bong hits in a sealed-off compound isn't really any kind of threat to America. ""
I never called you a coward , and if he could be killing americans , he would have been , do you imagine he was not using his wealth to try and kill americans still?
""His intent to "kill even more" Americans had become complete fantasy. Wait, you didn't actually believe that idiocy, did you?""
I take it you do not mind x con pedophiles living next to the kids in your family...Good luck with that too ...
Apparently he "undeclared war" on america , in your mind some where , along with al quada , and YOU want to bring up idiocy? Why don't you go read some of the recent publications from his pals and educate yourself a bit Hajji...
Patango on January 15, 2012 1:07 AM:
Doug on January 14, 2012 5:34 PM:
""Patango, if I remember correctly, Seal Team Six was instructed to capture or kill Bin Laden, NOT "shoot on sight", a big difference.""
I for one will not second guess people who are risking their lives , under fire , in the dark , on a mission in hostile territory .. I find that more than a bit ridiculous , for me to attempt something like that ,while sitting on my coach safe at home quite frankly ...
While I speculated on the time it would take for this imaginary trial , who knows , I do not see anyone in gitmo getting over and done with in 5 months though , and can you explain to me who gets a lawyer , as a prisoner of war? See what I mean now?
candideinnc on January 15, 2012 8:41 AM:
Of course he got it all wrong! For God's sake, this is John Bolton. If you want to get foreign policy in this country right, all you have to do is the opposite of what this moron says.
Anonymous on January 15, 2012 11:21 AM:
Patango and, to a much lesser extent, Doug
"I for one will not second guess people who are risking their lives , under fire , in the dark , on a mission in hostile territory"
Won't you? You've just described the Mumbai gunmen. As to what we imagine bin Laden MIGHT have done with his wealth, Patango, or in the chaos of what's called the Arab Spring, Doug, haven't we been assured for years that Al Qaeda's assets have been frozen by our new hyper-security techniques? So you seem to be having a shared hallucination here.
"I take it you do not mind x con pedophiles living next to the kids in your family...Good luck with that too ..."
You see? Utter fantasy. Now you're saying the man was a pedophile, which has been alleged by exactly no one. Stick to the story at hand.
"I never called you a coward..."
I take it you feel bad that you said I was spineless. Apology accepted. We'll never speak of it again.
"...and if he could be killing americans , he would have been"
Yes. Exactly What I Said. This was not a security mission.
Patango on January 15, 2012 5:03 PM:
Anonymous on January 15, 2012 11:21 AM:
"Won't you? You've just described the Mumbai gunmen."
That is hilarious and twisted , and an Anonymously stupid comment LOL ....
""As to what we imagine bin Laden MIGHT have done with his wealth, Patango, or in the chaos of what's called the Arab Spring, Doug, haven't we been assured for years that Al Qaeda's assets have been frozen by our new hyper-security techniques? So you seem to be having a shared hallucination here.""
Yes , the usa and the west are in complete control of everyones wealth , and OBL was livng on pakistan food stamps LOL
You'll be alright Hojji
Dan on January 15, 2012 10:40 PM:
Patango:
"That is hilarious and twisted , and an Anonymously stupid comment LOL ...."
You won't even try to substantiate what you say? For the second time you've refused to stand behind your remarks.
"Yes , the usa and the west are in complete control of everyones wealth"
I get the sarcasm, but if by "everyone" you mean terrorist networks, then yes. That is what is being reported.