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We talked earlier about a fascinating exchange during last night’s “60 Minutes” on CBS, when Lesley Stahl noted that Reagan raised taxes and House Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s press secretary threw a fit. It appears my post wasn’t well received by some on the right.
To briefly recap, Stahl and Cantor were talking about the nature of political compromises, and the CBS correspondent noted that Reagan, Cantor’s hero, was willing to compromise and the Republican icon “raised taxes.” Cantor’s press secretary, off camera, interrupted the interview, yelling that Stahl was lying about Reagan’s record.
One far-right blogger today offered a unique spin on reality.
Stahl, was not being honest. When Ronald Reagan took office, the top individual tax rate was 70 percent and by 1986 it was down to only 28 percent. All Americans received at least a 30 percent tax rate cut. Democrats like to play with the numbers to pretend that Reagans [sic] tax increases equalled [sic] his tax cuts. Of course, this is absurd.
… Unfortunately, Steve Benen at the Washington Monthly continued to misrepresent Reagan’s record on tax cuts. It’s just soooo difficult for liberals to understand that tax cuts work. Sad.
While some left-vs-right disputes quickly fall into the realm of opinion and/or subjective analysis, the question here is surprisingly straightforward. Stahl said Reagan raised taxes; Cantor’s press secretary and this conservative blogger said Reagan didn’t raise taxes. One side is right; one side isn’t.
Fortunately, there’s no need to “play with the numbers” or “pretend” anything. Either Reagan signed tax increases into law or he didn’t. Even conservatives should be able to accept these basic terms.
And in this case, reality is crystal clear and the facts are indisputable: in Ronald Reagan’s first term, he signed off on a series of tax increases — even when unemployment was nearing 11% — and proceeded to raise taxes seven out of the eight years he was in office. The truth is, “no peacetime president has raised taxes so much on so many people” as Reagan.
It’s true that Reagan cut taxes in 1981, but a year later, he also approved what is generally considered the largest tax increase — as a percentage of the economy — in modern American history.
And unfortunately for the right, the economy boomed shortly thereafter.
There’s nothing to debate here. Between 1982 and 1984, Reagan raised taxes four times, and as Bruce Bartlett — who worked for Reagan — has explained more than once, Reagan raised taxes 12 times during his eight years in office.
Now, if Cantor’s office and right-wing bloggers want to argue about the efficacy of Reagan’s tax policy, we can have a serious debate. If they want to discuss the impact of these tax cuts on the deficit — Reagan added $2 trillion to the debt in eight years, after promising to do the opposite as a candidate in 1980 — I’m certainly game. If they want to point out that Reagan only raised taxes reluctantly, as part of a compromise with congressional Democrats, they’d be on firm ground.
But instead Cantor’s office and right-wing bloggers want to contest the basics of reality. And that’s just silly.
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beb on January 02, 2012 4:05 PM:
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias."
captcha is being especially stupid today.
walt on January 02, 2012 4:07 PM:
They lie compulsively because their political religion is not based on empirical evidence, just belief. If you were to believe something so completely and uncritically, you probably wouldn't even think your word games and pretzel logic constitutes lying. It's what you do to maintain your psychic equilibrium. It's the nature of Republicans to say anything in order to maintain the illusion of infallibility.
c u n d gulag on January 02, 2012 4:14 PM:
You linked to Jim Hoft?
The one who's the closest competition to Donald Douglass and Doug feith as "The Dumbest Motherf*cker on the Planet!?!?!?"
And they don't acknowledge reality even when it stares them in the face.
They're so wrapped up in their own fiction and mythology, that they wouldn't acknowledge reality if "Reality" was a pit bull gnawing on their ample asses.
How do you deal with people like Hoft who, not only can't spell, but don't acknowledge simple facts, and are too busy turning everything they say into propagandistic talking points, that they live in a virtual bubble?
And then project their problems onto anyone who doesn't agree with them.
You can't!
Sadly, we have no choice BUT to deal with them, because they've got almost 50% of Americans conivinced that committing economic suicide is the best way to rid this country of uppity colored folks, lazy Latins, overbearing women, queers and dykes, Liberals, and atheists/agnostics.
gus on January 02, 2012 4:15 PM:
wow.
Before long, Reagan’s legend will include that he wore gold armor as he strode across the Atlantic, past Sarah Palin’s mid-Atlantic Ocean birthplace (a clamshell), to Russia to tear down the Berlin Wall.
He did all of this before all putting Saddam Hussein on notice that the US will tear him down, too, but not before he ridded the world of the evils which existed in Grenada (which Reagan personally pulled the pin on an actual grenade that launched the attack that overthrew that dictatorship). This is why we now call the island that used to be unknown as Grenada, Grenada.
Of course, let’s not forget that back in the 80s, it was substitute quarterback Ronald Wilson Reagan who stepped in when Joe Theisman broke his leg and carried the Washington Redskins to the Superbowl victory. He looked at being a back up quarterback as being part of his re-election mandate, if you remember.
And, that is why some people called him Raygun...because we knew his Star Wars defense system must be as solid as his throwing arm.
To paraphrase Paul Harvey, And, Goooood Day!
Jose Padilla on January 02, 2012 4:23 PM:
What they mean is that Reagan cut taxes on the rich (and that's all that matters). The fact that he raised taxes on everybody else doesn't register.
Sgt. Gym Bunny on January 02, 2012 4:26 PM:
With all these alternative concoctions of history and reality, you'd think that at some point talking heads on the right would just explode. Being on the right must be like living in neverending reel of Inception
or something. But I think they've intentially locked away their totems to keep track of reality, though. Sad...mk3872 on January 02, 2012 4:32 PM:
And so began our sad, deep descent into a society of haves and have-nots with record inequality as soon as Reagan and the Conservative Revolution hit, right out of the mouth of The Gateway Pundit:
"When Ronald Reagan took office, the top individual tax rate was 70 percent and by 1986 it was down to only 28 percent"
Let's fix THAT
Todd for VT House on January 02, 2012 4:40 PM:
Not to defend the wingers, but they certainly could be honest and right at the same time: admit Reagan raised taxes and show that his cuts overwhelm the increases so net he cut overall.
http://capitalgainsandgames.com/blog/bruce-bartlett/1632/reagans-tax-increases
The bottom line is there is such a thing as cutting too much...
Hedda Peraz on January 02, 2012 4:41 PM:
Steve Benin(sick) is a Man
Ronald Reagan was a GOD!
MikeBoyScout on January 02, 2012 4:46 PM:
In the end, all reasonable people will agree to cooperate and accept that history's final arbiter is Eric Cantor's press flak.
Ned on January 02, 2012 4:49 PM:
Perhaps we need a list of what taxes Reagan raised. Here are two:
The first Reagan tax increase came in 1982. By then it was clear that the budget projections used to justify the 1981 tax cut were wildly optimistic. In response, Mr. Reagan agreed to a sharp rollback of corporate tax cuts, and a smaller rollback of individual income tax cuts. Over all, the 1982 tax increase undid about a third of the 1981 cut; as a share of G.D.P., the increase was substantially larger than Mr. Clinton's 1993 tax increase.
Mr. Reagan's second tax increase was [...] the Social Security Reform Act of 1983, which followed the recommendations of a commission led by Alan Greenspan. Its key provision was an increase in the payroll tax that pays for Social Security and Medicare hospital insurance.
For many middle- and low-income families, this tax increase more than undid any gains from Mr. Reagan's income tax cuts. In 1980, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates, middle-income families with children paid 8.2 percent of their income in income taxes, and 9.5 percent in payroll taxes. By 1988 the income tax share was down to 6.6 percent -- but the payroll tax share was up to 11.8 percent, and the combined burden was up, not down.
mark on January 02, 2012 4:50 PM:
If I remember correctly, the euphemism "revenue enhancement" came into popular use by the Reagan Administration.
Quaker in a Basement on January 02, 2012 4:52 PM:
Same song, different verse.
Just like they do when they claim "47 percent pay no taxes," Cantor and Hoft are pretending that federal income tax is the only tax that counts.
hells littlest angel on January 02, 2012 4:53 PM:
Anybody can believe something that's true.
theAmericanist on January 02, 2012 4:58 PM:
Gingrich started calling Bob Dole "the tax collector for the welfare state" over Dole's 1982 tax increase.
Anonymous on January 02, 2012 4:58 PM:
An elephant is a long skinny thing. While you focus on the ends.
Joe Friday on January 02, 2012 5:21 PM:
One far-right blogger: "It's just soooo difficult for liberals to understand that tax cuts work. Sad."
As dumb as a box of rocks.
Tax cuts have NEVER "work"ed.
AG on January 02, 2012 6:03 PM:
Considering the context of the interview was about compromising with the other party, the fact that Reagan undid a large portion of his own tax cuts implies he was forced to admit that there is some level at which tax rates can be too low. He admitted the Democrats were partially right which is the essence of a compromise.
Jim "Gateway Dirtbag" Hoft, a notorious anti-Muslim activist, by insisting that lowering tax rates on aggregate during Reagan's term is the only thing that matters, is being overly simplistic to the point of being dishonest.
Will Radle on January 02, 2012 6:11 PM:
The other overlooked fact: Ms. Stahl is a veteran journalist who actively covered Presidents 37 to 41 including Ronald Reagan. She would be embarrassed to present a falsehood as verifiable fact. Mr. Cantor's employee was rude in interrupting the interview and ignorant of history.
Obviously, Mr. Cantor's employees do not trust his ability to communicate effectively without their intrusion. Anyone in need of a press secretary?
SYSPROG on January 02, 2012 6:23 PM:
This is the deal...'I don't believe your FACTS so you're LYING'. It is the Republican mantra.
golack on January 02, 2012 6:27 PM:
Even a few more points:
1. Under Reagan, most households saw a decline in income in constant dollars.
2. In wasn't until Clinton that most households saw an actual increase in income (constant dollars)--and a funny thing happened to the national debt
3. Under the last Bush, most people saw a drop in household income--along with no net job increase, huge deficits, and an economy dropping faster than blue ice from a jet liner (aka "trickle down").
4. Obama has the economy adding jobs now, but it will be awhile before it fully recovers from Bush's Great Recession. And incomes will lag behind that.
Doug on January 02, 2012 6:43 PM:
If the video is anything like the transcript (I just couldn't stomach deliberately watching the Viginia weasel), Rep. Cantor didn't do too well. And that was BEFORE his (presumably former) press secretary demonstrated to the world that "this ain't your father's GOP, kid!"
Good...
Ron Byers on January 02, 2012 6:43 PM:
The team working for Reagan were not infected with the modern Republican desease. They were interested in things that actually worked.
What people forget about the 81 tax decrease is that at the same time Reagan killed nearly all the lobbiest purchased loopholes that were distorting the tax system and hurting the economy. I no, a law firm I worked for had made a fortune playing monopoly with rich doctors money. Overnight with the loopholes were closed and the rates were lowered so the doctors lost all incentive to play monopoly.
Reagan spent the next years raising taxes to adjust revenues to reduce the deficit he was running.
Rates are only part of a comprehensive tax plan. Closing special loopholes are another. The goal should be to raise rates and increase actual economic activity.
Right now I would top corporate rates, but close all the lobbiest paid for loopholes. I would also make dividends a deductable item at the corporate level. My goal would be to either keep revenues from the corporate income taxes the same or increase revenues some. I second goal would be to encourage corporations to pay dividends to their shareholders.
Ron Byers on January 02, 2012 6:56 PM:
"no" "know" Iknow the difference. We can have suffer with captcha but we can't correct mistakes. At least we have preview. I should use it.
RalfW on January 02, 2012 7:02 PM:
But instead Cantor’s office and right-wing bloggers want to contest the basics of reality. And that’s just silly.
It's not silly when your entire 30 year narrative depends on the facts not being operative.
Cantor and all the modern Republicans have deluded themselves for decades.
And the party of fiscal responsiblilty? Hah.
Ha ha ha.
Just look at Minnesota, where the state party is $2 million in debt. They want to run the state budget when they can't even balance their own campaign treasury?
Joe Friday on January 02, 2012 7:54 PM:
Ron Byers,
"The team working for Reagan were not infected with the modern Republican desease. They were interested in things that actually worked."
Hardly.
Enacting tax cuts which overwhelmingly benefited the Rich & Corporate that lowered federal income tax revenues down to 1940s levels does not "work" for a 1980s federal government.
"What people forget about the 81 tax decrease is that at the same time Reagan killed nearly all the lobbiest purchased loopholes that were distorting the tax system and hurting the economy."
The tax cuts for the Rich & Corporate "hurt" the economy. There were more jobs created during Carter's presidential term than either of Reagan's terms.
The nation's Standard of Living declined, real wages declined, federal deficits exploded, unemployment increased, and income disparity increased.
"Reagan spent the next years raising taxes to adjust revenues to reduce the deficit he was running."
He failed.
CRA on January 02, 2012 8:58 PM:
"Stahl, was not being honest."--Jim Hoft
Hoft, cannot write simple sentences. For crying out loud, I know he's just blogging, but there's no need for a comma there. He continues as follows:
"When Ronald Reagan took office, the top individual tax rate was 70 percent and by 1986 it was down to only 28 percent. All Americans received at least a 30 percent tax rate cut. Democrats like to play with the numbers to pretend that Reagans [sic] tax increases equalled his tax cuts."
I have not seen anyone claim that Reagan's various tax increases added up to more than his cuts. I have seen many people note, correctly, that Reagan raised taxes of various kinds. Hoft is the one playing with numbers, until he finds quotes that actually fit his description. In looking for them, he'd see mostly or entirely quotes that fit mine.
In other contexts, of course, he'd have no trouble thinking about specific taxes, since using aggregate taxation as some sort of unspoken, inviolable default is not useful to a right-wing ideologue all the time.
John Casey on January 02, 2012 9:07 PM:
CRA hits the nail on the head--as it seemed Steve had failed to address Hoff's objection, such as it was. Hoff, as CRA points out, responds to a completely different objection with a much stronger case--call this the iron man, the positive correlate of the straw man. Stahl alleged Reagan "raised taxes" and "compromised." Reagan's having an aggregate tax decrease might be relevant, just not to the matter at hand.
CRA on January 02, 2012 9:17 PM:
Thanks, John Casey.
I left a reply at Hoft's place -- he at least has the nerve to allow open commenting. It'll be interesting to see what Hoft and his admirers make of it.
Betsy on January 03, 2012 2:14 AM:
What's that saying, "you are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts"?
worcestergirl on January 03, 2012 8:41 AM:
I saw part of the interview, and I hadn't known that Cantor is Jewish.
To me the funniest part was when he said that he didn't mind taking part in Christian pageants.
In other words, he will say and do anything to belong. And lo and behold, the group he chose to belong to as an adult requires that specific skill set.
I was also fascinated by his teeth. They are perfect. Too bad such drivel passes by them every day.
Registeredguest on January 03, 2012 11:53 AM:
"Democrats like to play with the numbers to pretend that Reagans [sic] tax increases equalled [sic] his tax cuts. Of course, this is absurd."
This is how the wingers make their points. They mischaracterize the argument then attack the mischaracterization.
No one claimed that "tax increases equaled tax cuts". The claim is that Reagan found it necessary to compromise and increase taxes 12 times.
nitpicker on January 03, 2012 12:15 PM:
It should be mentioned as well that, while he decreased the top marginal rate, he and the Democrats who ran Congress also did away with a crapload of deductions, meaning there were some at the top who actually paid more when Reagan left office than when he came in.